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Bongo Bill posted:Why does "primate city" mean something boring like Paris, and not something like Lopburi, which is overrun by macaques. Paris is also overrun by primates.
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Apr 7, 2024 20:57
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Is that a map of countries with cities populated only by monkeys? Spain is starting to have a problem where Money is unlivable for poor people, but is still the place where jobs exists, also where the rich people live. Salaries are high, but the cost of live are even higuer. Barcelona have a "cute problem" and is that is surrounded by mountains so have nowhere to grown.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:30
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I thought this problem was solved in Spain.
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Apr 7, 2024 21:45
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Vatican City is a primate city, and so is Baltimore.
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Apr 8, 2024 02:57
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:It's called a primate city and its extremely common. Taiwan also has a primate city, the Taipei urban area - not sure if this map is claiming it for China or splitting up Taipei and New Taipei. Also, whatever is going on in the Pacific is weird - probably due to small, spread-out population though.
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Apr 8, 2024 06:05
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All cities are primate cities, aren't they? I mean unless the dolphins have gotten up to something I haven't heard about, only humans have cities.
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Apr 8, 2024 08:12
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:All cities are primate cities, aren't they? I mean unless the dolphins have gotten up to something I haven't heard about, only humans have cities. Some libertarian bears have a town in New Hampshire if memory serves.
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Apr 8, 2024 08:17
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Grand Fromage posted:This has already happened. Go to any rural area of Korea and try to find someone younger than 60. Beat me to it, but yeah, look at population trends for p. much anywhere in S. Korea that isn't the Seoul metro area and you see declines around (except Sejong lol) for at least the past decade. Interestingly, Seoul proper has seen some decline in that period, I presume from a lot of relocating to Gyeonggi and, to a dramatically lesser extent, Sejong. Grand Fromage posted:The Seoul dominance is difficult to grasp if you haven't lived in Korea. I lived outside Seoul my entire time and it's nuts how just no one gives a poo poo about the rest of the country. There's a lot of resentment about it, many of my Korean friends loathed Seoul and people from there. I def think "gently caress Seoul" is an important part of the voting pattern there. Yeah I've struggled to explain it to Americans who haven't been here - like New York brains times ten, if everyone in the country had it. I don't recall where in Korea you lived, but here in Daejeon I don't see a lot of the anti-Seoul sentiment you encountered. It feels more like Daejeonites tend to submit to Seoul-brain and agree they should be ashamed of their non-Seoulness. Incredibly frustrating outlook. Grand Fromage posted:I'm glad I lived outside of it because the attitude is so stifling. The number of people I met there, both local and expat, who had never left Seoul and couldn't imagine a reason why they would do so was amazing. Japan is very Tokyo-centered but it's nowhere near Korea's level. I like to say that your typical Seoulite is more likely to have visited multiple other countries than have ever thought about seeing other parts of Korea. Jeju counts as "other country" to them in this context because they sure as hell view it that way.
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Apr 8, 2024 13:06
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South Korea being dominated by Seoul plays a part in their birth rate being the lowest in the world. Big, dense cities tend to depress fertility rates, and having half of the population live in a single megacity skews the national trends downwards
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Apr 8, 2024 14:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Japan is very Tokyo-centered but it's nowhere near Korea's level.  Mr. Belpit posted:Yeah I've struggled to explain it to Americans who haven't been here - like New York brains times ten, if everyone in the country had it.  Jesus. That sounds rough.
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Apr 8, 2024 15:19
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Mr. Belpit posted:I like to say that your typical Seoulite is more likely to have visited multiple other countries than have ever thought about seeing other parts of Korea. Jeju counts as "other country" to them in this context because they sure as hell view it that way.
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Apr 8, 2024 15:44
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:All cities are primate cities, aren't they? I mean unless the dolphins have gotten up to something I haven't heard about, only humans have cities. someone hasn't heard about Octopolis and Octlantis.
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Apr 8, 2024 15:46
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Mr. Belpit posted:I don't recall where in Korea you lived, but here in Daejeon I don't see a lot of the anti-Seoul sentiment you encountered. It feels more like Daejeonites tend to submit to Seoul-brain and agree they should be ashamed of their non-Seoulness. Incredibly frustrating outlook. Southeast in Ulsan. There are also the people ashamed of not being Seoul and who just want to go there, but it's not hard to find the gently caress Seoul crew.
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Apr 8, 2024 15:51
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My experience in Japan was more "I am from _xxyyzz_, my work paid me to go to Tokyo for a bit so I went and had fun. It is only 2 hours by train away, whatever. NowI'm back, let's drink." Obviously an oversimplification. It just seems like nobody really gave too much of a poo poo tbqh.
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Apr 8, 2024 16:02
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:All cities are primate cities, aren't they? I mean unless the dolphins have gotten up to something I haven't heard about, only humans have cities. Some cities are more primate than others 
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Apr 8, 2024 16:08
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i wonder how much tokyo being a new city capital (albeit from the 17th century) and being on the periphery of the bulk of islands at the time let the other cities to keep their culture has to do with it vs paris/london being the epicenter of the country for over 1000 years itd be neat to see a primate cities vibes map where you can see stuff like paris/seoul where the city is ultra dominant over everything vs cities like tokyo where people are more blase about it
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Apr 8, 2024 16:12
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:i wonder how much tokyo being a new city capital (albeit from the 17th century) and being on the periphery of the bulk of islands at the time let the other cities to keep their culture has to do with it vs paris/london being the epicenter of the country for over 1000 years Paris being ultra dominant is due to explicit policy choices by the French government in the 18th and 19th century to centralize everything and make everyone speak the same dialect and accent as much as anything else.
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Apr 8, 2024 16:55
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Hmm. I agree that past state structures can have long-lasting legacy effects. It's hard to imagine nowadays, but just half a century ago Belgium was a highly centralized country, with nearly everything concentrated in Brussels, which was commensurately prestigious and almost considered a mini-Paris. The mere suggestion of giving any form of autonomy to the linguistic communities was still considered an act of treason to King and Fatherland by true Belgian patriots (which still existed at the time). Due to various gradual, interrelated changes, including federalism, the economic rise of Flanders, the end of the French language's sociological dominance, and demographic shifts within the city itself, that era is long gone, but some of it still reverberates to this day, most notably when it comes to infrastructure. Whether it's the motorway system or the rail network, nearly everything in Belgium is designed to be funneled through or around Brussels, which predictably causes problems. One of the reasons that Belgian trains often run late is that everything has to pass through Brussels, most notably the Brussels-Central station, which has to process an enormous number of trains each day despite having only six tracks.  (it's worse than it looks at first, since some of the red lines that don't run through Brussels have a low train capacity/frequency)
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Apr 8, 2024 17:25
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Edit:wrong thread
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Apr 8, 2024 20:11
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Albino Squirrel posted:Most countries that were colonized and largely populated by the English either have a purpose-built (DC, Canberra) or purposefully-selected (Ottawa, Wellington) capital at a distance from the main centres of commerce and population. I wonder if that's a reaction to having everything concentrated in London back home? I'm partial to the revisionist history that the Southern aristocracy wanted a capital where their rights to own human beings would never be hosed with. Pennsylvania had passed a law during Washington's presidency that any slave who resided in the Commonwealth for a certain period of time could legally free themselves. This meant that Washington had to keep all his house servants continually cycling between his residence in Philadelphia and his forced labor camp in Virginia for years and years. No self-respecting Southern dandy/people owner wants to have to do all that administrative work.
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Apr 8, 2024 21:30
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I think that's just observing that colonised countries are easier to play simcity with because they have big tracts of uninhabited* land and lots of natural resources and you're still building new cities late into the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries etc when that sort of idea is appealing to either colonial administrators or the recently independent country who may or may not still be colonizing other parts of the country. If I think of purpose built capitals I think of Brasilia first and foremost.
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Apr 8, 2024 21:34
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OwlFancier posted:I think that's just observing that colonised countries are easier to play simcity with because they have big tracts of uninhabited* land and lots of natural resources and you're still building new cities late into the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries etc when that sort of idea is appealing to either colonial administrators or the recently independent country who may or may not still be colonizing other parts of the country. I am not trying to attack you but in what way is Brasilia more "purpose built" than DC?
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Apr 8, 2024 22:06
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I don't suppose it is, although I guess given Brasilia being newer it probably inherits more bad 20th century planning decisions that older cities are resistant to, the best efforts of robert moses notwithstanding. Everything seems like it's built very far apart connected by motorways. It does look beautiful but it seems like it might not have the advantages most people seem to look for in a city in the sense that you can just walk to everything you want to go to. Mostly just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be especially unique to the former anglo colonial sphere, other than in the sense that britain has probably produced more fomer colonies than anyone else. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 8, 2024 |
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Apr 8, 2024 22:11
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I am not trying to attack you but in what way is Brasilia more "purpose built" than DC? Georgetown and Alexandria were already there, when DC was laid out. But yeah both are pretty purpose-built. Brasilia was purpose built in a weird futurist way though so it stands out more in that way. DC was at least purpose-built in a way that resembles a normal city.
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Apr 8, 2024 22:14
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Also like in the US almost any capital city established after independence is a purpose built capital
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Apr 8, 2024 22:15
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It does look like somewhere I'd like to live though, like a great big suburb. Not as many tall buildings. More open spaces.
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Apr 8, 2024 22:16
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OwlFancier posted:It does look like somewhere I'd like to live though, like a great big suburb. Not as many tall buildings. More open spaces. That’s basically how you know a planned city was mainly built in the 20th century see: Canberra,, Milton Keynes. Also unplanned cities mainly built in the 20th century like Las Vegas or really any major city in the American west not Portland Seattle Denver or in the Bay Area
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Apr 8, 2024 22:29
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:That’s basically how you know a planned city was mainly built in the 20th century see: Canberra,, Milton Keynes. Imo the big dividing line in urban design is WW2, not 1900, at least in the US anyway. Prior to WW2, cars existed but were not common enough to shift (heh) new urban layouts much. Plenty of urban areas built in the 1920s and 30s were laid out at a dense, walkable scale.
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Apr 8, 2024 22:37
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alnilam posted:Georgetown and Alexandria were already there, when DC was laid out. But yeah both are pretty purpose-built. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Enfant_Plan this was some weird futuristic ridiculousness when it was first laid out
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Apr 8, 2024 22:56
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The same president who built got Brasília built is also the one who brought all the car companies here. It was absolutely built with cars in mind. Also it looks like an airplane. Airplanes are the future babyyy
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Apr 9, 2024 03:10
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Google Trends for "my eyes hurt":
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Apr 9, 2024 05:05
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Phlegmish posted:One of the reasons that Belgian trains often run late is that everything has to pass through Brussels, most notably the Brussels-Central station, which has to process an enormous number of trains each day despite having only six tracks. I've sometimes wondered why we don't built a big new train station outside Brussels, with the existing tracks into Brussels being used for shuttle trains from that new station into the current ones. Then I remember how our regions like to gently caress each other over, it'd cost several billions and for some goddamn reason take 15 years to build, and it'd be more poo poo than what we hace now.
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Apr 9, 2024 05:21
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Mr. Belpit posted:Beat me to it, but yeah, look at population trends for p. much anywhere in S. Korea that isn't the Seoul metro area and you see declines around (except Sejong lol) for at least the past decade. Interestingly, Seoul proper has seen some decline in that period, I presume from a lot of relocating to Gyeonggi and, to a dramatically lesser extent, Sejong. I think part of the issue, unlike New York for America or Tokyo for Japan, is that Seoul is just a head and shoulders and probably all the way down to the knees a nicer, richer, more diverse, cleaner, culturally interesting, more employable etc etc place to live than any of the second tier cities with the possible exception of Busan. Now that combined with a lack of interest in fixing that is a genuine problem, but the want to be in Seoul is I think pretty understandable. Rather than comparing the attitudes with those of countries that have been rich for centuries, I'd be curious to hear about how it compares with social attitudes in other recently/presently developing countries. Kuala Laumpur in Malaysia, Cairo in Egypt? Korea's uneven level of development on a gut level feels essentially unavoidable given its circumstances I think.
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Apr 9, 2024 06:55
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nimby posted:I've sometimes wondered why we don't built a big new train station outside Brussels, with the existing tracks into Brussels being used for shuttle trains from that new station into the current ones. What’s the central Belgian equivalent of sugar beet fields? Gare des anciens puits de mine?
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Apr 9, 2024 06:58
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Koramei posted:I think part of the issue, unlike New York for America or Tokyo for Japan, is that Seoul is just a head and shoulders and probably all the way down to the knees a nicer, richer, more diverse, cleaner, culturally interesting, more employable etc etc place to live than any of the second tier cities with the possible exception of Busan. I'm a KL guy born and bred, and I don't think Malaysia is at the level of SK yet. You'd get pretty much the same standard of living in Georgetown or Johor Bahru really, there's just more variety in KL. Plenty of people moving from KL out to Penang or to smaller cities around, not to mention migrants from East Malaysia to West and vice versa.
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Apr 9, 2024 07:24
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Koramei posted:I'd be curious to hear about how it compares with social attitudes in other recently/presently developing countries. Kuala Laumpur in Malaysia, Cairo in Egypt? Korea's uneven level of development on a gut level feels essentially unavoidable given its circumstances I think. Alexandria in Egypt comes a very, very distant second to Cairo -- probably like Busan to Seoul, not that I've been around South Korea (I do know Egypt very well), and everything else in Egypt comes in tied for last place, there is no third city. Tunisia's second city culturally is Sousse, which is OK but still a significantly distant second to Tunis. Sfax is officially the "second city" but it's lacking in ... pretty much everything. Politics, culture, national perception, investment. Besides those three cities, like Egypt, there's not even anything on the chart. Lebanon is very small so the distances not quite as big a deal, but again nothing comes even close to Beirut. The small cities between Beirut and Tripoli are nice and very well developed, like Jbeil/Byblos, but they're far too small to draw any cultural or governing power. I guess it has been like 800+ years since Tyre or Tripoli were able to compete in any meaningful way with Beirut politically. Ethiopia is 98% centered on Addis, with 2% centered on neighboring Adama. Everything else is 50+ years behind Addis.
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Apr 9, 2024 08:25
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Saladman posted:Everything else is 50+ years behind Addis. Non-capital regions are behind the capital Being behind means being in the past The past is a foreign country In conclusion, non-capital regions are a different country. Furthermore, this makes every non-capital region a victim of imperialism, people who move there Quislings, and people who leave it colonialists.
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Apr 9, 2024 11:13
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Berlin was pretty unique for a while for being poorer than the German average. Although that has changed a bit, and somewhere in the last decade, it became a little bit richer than the German average. But other cities like Frankfurt or Munich are much richer still.
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Apr 9, 2024 12:02
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64% of people in Iceland (~254k) live in the Reykjavik metropolitan area. It's the only "city" in the country though there has been some talk of Akureyri (population ~20k) being classified as a city since it serves a similar role to the northern parts of Iceland as the central place everyone from the region needs to go for a lot of services as well as having very central role in the culture of the area as the long standing "capital of the north". This would mean mayor of Akureyri could then call herself borgarstjóri (City Leader) like the mayor of Reykjavik instead of just bæjarstjóri (Town Leader) like every other mayor in the country.
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Apr 9, 2024 12:05
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FreudianSlippers posted:64% of people in Iceland (~254k) live in the Reykjavik metropolitan area. It's the only "city" in the country though there has been some talk of Akureyri (population ~20k) being classified as a city since it serves a similar role to the northern parts of Iceland as the central place everyone from the region needs to go for a lot of services as well as having very central role in the culture of the area as the long standing "capital of the north". Torrannor posted:Berlin was pretty unique for a while for being poorer than the German average. Although that has changed a bit, and somewhere in the last decade, it became a little bit richer than the German average. But other cities like Frankfurt or Munich are much richer still. *bankers
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Apr 9, 2024 12:09
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