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Zopotantor posted:Any opinions on the new Hobbit trailer? The final scene really pissed me off - Smaug never met Bilbo when visible, in the original It's a real shame Jackson wasn't allowed to make that bridge movie he originally wanted, we might have gotten a Hobbit adaption that wasn't action-movied up to hell and back.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:24
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computer parts posted:...It's ok if you don't like it for being less personal than the book, but it's important to realize that they weren't trying to make a personal story like the book... Which raises the question, why make it at all? The book is a personal story. He clearly wasn't interested in making an adaption of the Hobbit so much as wanking himself over film tech and wiping up with the appendices.
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May 2, 2015 00:26
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Good money, yes, shame about the bad films. Yeah, that's what I was getting at. They aren't good action films, they aren't good character films, and they aren't good adaptions of The Hobbit.
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May 2, 2015 13:40
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100YrsofAttitude posted:I wouldn't go so far to say it was worth it, but the Riddles in the Dark scene was spectacular, I thought. True. Now imagine a movie or two of well shot character moments like that actually telling the story of The Hobbit instead of 10 hours of turgid CGI video game cutscenes and emo dwarves.
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May 2, 2015 23:58
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"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert." -Bilbo, only mention of the worms in all of Tolkien's writing.
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May 5, 2015 03:22
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Sauron is a Maia, thus he is old as anything else. I always figure any mention of elder things to just be Dunseny or "I never actually finished the Silmarilion" so who knows how they might have been explained.
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May 22, 2015 01:23
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The Sil is pretty explicit that Orcs are corrupted elves. What he never decided on was if the Orcs were irredeemably evil. I seem to recall he didn't like that idea later in life; an irredeemably evil being.
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Jun 12, 2015 14:57
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euphronius posted:Silmarillion is not explicit about it. It is speculation in that source. Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor posted:
So not explicit, but there really isn't any where else they could have come from. No one was there in Utumno but everyoe believes that is where the Orcs came from because Melkor wasn't capable of makeing them from scratch.
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Jun 12, 2015 18:21
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concerned mom posted:I thought they found it in the mountain, or is that just from the film? This is my new cannon. Literally the heart of a mountain, mountains as semi-alive aspects of Arda, their sheer physical presence on the landscape giving them a life of their own.
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Jun 25, 2015 00:14
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There isn't much point to the world if you constantly have angels telling you exactly what to do or doing it for you. Especially when clashes of power on that level tend to destroy continents.
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Aug 2, 2015 19:38
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:The problem of a being being unable to be evil not really being good or even a moral actor in any sense of the term is a problem for Catholic theology in general, what with good being omnibenevolent. Like, I wouldn't say that the Silmarillion's morality and theology is something alien or from a bygone era, it's just intensely Catholic in some ways. And where it differs it tends to be more due to Tolkien's own beliefs/creativity than due to any sort of bygone era stuff. Basically all this. All morality comes down to whether we are acting of our own volition (morality is complex) or are we just acting out the plan god has (people are no differnt from puppets running through a play for the amusement of the creator).
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Aug 3, 2015 02:05
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Ashcans posted:Both my wife and I are Tolkien fans, but up until now our only copies of the books have been dog-eared trade paperbacks we bought ages ago. I would like to get a set of hardbacks for the Lord of the Rings (if there is one that includes the Hobbit too that would be great, but not required). I know there are tons of options here but unfortunately lots of places like Amazon seem to cross-pollinate reviews of different editions of the same book, so it's hard to pick out a good one. I am sure someone here has a set they would recommend? One caveat - I'm trying to get a set that isn't matched the movie, because it drives my wife crazy when books are recovered/republished to emphasize their movie adaptation. It's not hard bound but I'd throw in a vote for the vinyl bound edition: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OH...2B4RRDC9SKTZSK2 Edit: wow amazon is weird with multiple editions. The cover is grey suede over vinyl with a sewn binding. It sounds kind of lame but my wife and I found it striking enough in person to buy it as soon as we saw it in B&N despite having several other copies already. It's also my favorite edition to hold and read. It's actually the only single volume edition I find comfortable to just sit on the couch with. sunday at work fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 15:04
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Ashcans posted:Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that edition in a store to handle - although I did find a number of other versions and eliminated them from the running, so that's something. I'm pretty tempted to order that version online on the basis of the recommendations here. Could you give me any idea of how big it is? One of the things about single volumes is that some of them seem pretty awkward for actually reading - I had a single-volume paperback that was really short and immensely thick that just felt funny to hold. 1,248 grams. 155mm deep, 58mm thick, 216mm tall. It's comparable in size and weight to a hard bound US edition of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows (it's about 100 grams heavier but 15mm shorter and 10mm less depth). Like I said, it's actually the only single volume I find comfortable to sit with and read. Images: http://imgur.com/a/T9rRr sunday at work fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 22:33
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Mirkwood in the Hobbit was the only thing in any of the movies that looked anything like I pictured it while reading the books growing up. It's the only visual from the movies I really like; perhaps a bit stylized but I thought it really captured the cramped, disorienting nature of the corrupted wood.
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Dec 30, 2015 15:44
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The first Hobbit movie was disappointing but I thought at the time that you could do a fan edit to cut all the crap and still have 30-40 minutes of decent material. Then do that for the next two movies and you'd have a nice little picture. Then the second one opens by cutting one of my favorite parts of the book as they all just run inside Beorn's house and completely loses the plot from then on and that idea went out the window.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:11
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It always bothered me that they changed the Argonath in the movies. Anyone who hadn't read the books wouldn't know what they were supposed to look like.
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Sep 6, 2016 03:33
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The movies are the best movies you could have gotten out of the books. No they are not as granular, yes they cut that thing you really like, but as films they are generally well made. The performances are great, the effects work, the plot never really drags anywhere. We can't do Bombadil because it's a bad idea to bring your plot to a screeching halt for 15 minutes over something that isn't mentioned again. Imladris has to look like that because we need a big visual metaphor to get the majesty and power of the elves across without stopping to talk about their history in detail. Anarion gets cut because the plot of the film can do without him. You cast Liv Tyler for some reason. And so on. Books and films are just different mediums and if you aren't willing to make some big changes going from the former to the latter then the latter is going to suck.
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Sep 12, 2016 13:11
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Making a good adaption is more about getting the spirit of the thing than the details. Which is why the LoTR movies are good and the Hobbit movies suck.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:16
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"You were in gravest peril while you wore the Ring, for then you were half in the wraith-world yourself, and they might have seized you. You could see them, and they could see you." -Gandalf, Many Meetings The mere presence of the One Ring extended Bilbo's life, making him feel stretched. The Ringwraiths had worn their rings so long that they had completely faded into the wraith-world, being invisible in the real world without guises provided by Sauron. Hobbits and Men (and Dwarves in their own way) were creatures more purely of the physical world with a different spirit (and ultimate doom) than Elves and Maia which is likely why they responded to the ring by becoming invisible; temporarily being drawn into this other-world. "And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power." -Gandalf, Many Meetings This is why Bilbo sees Glorfindal (Arwen in the movie) as a radiant spirit while wearing the Ring. The elves had their ultimate origins in fairy stories where the idea of a physical world and an other-world is common (the Seen and Unseen of the above quote). In some of his later writing Tolkien mentions that any elves who remained in the world long after the third age would eventually fade completely from the sight of mortals. While Tolkien striped away most of the traditional fairy elements for his Elves it's entirely possible he simply couldn't edit The Hobbit enough to remove invisibility as a property of the One Ring and came up with a story (based on his own influences) that fit the case and which works internally.
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Jan 28, 2017 12:43
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3D was a gimmick back in the 50s meant to compete with TV and it's a gimmick now to compete with the internet. It's not meant to add anything to the film other than novelty and a few dollars to the ticket price.
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Feb 6, 2017 13:47
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Gandalf would have won.
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Feb 16, 2017 13:52
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Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Say you bio-enginered a highly nutrient and calorie dense food source that doesn't spoil and can sustain an adult for days on just a few bites. Why not make it look like bread? If you don't know what a semi-intelligent, waste energy absorbing, carbon nano matrix is you might just think this is some really good rope. You think Elves are just that good with arrows? Miniturized guidance and thruster systems. Point and shoot. sunday at work fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 6, 2017 |
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Jul 6, 2017 22:03
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Sure it's technobable but so is magic bread.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:52
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sassassin posted:PJ's The Hobbit movies are much more faithful to the books than his The Lord of the Rings, they just fell under a much harsher lens having come later, and not having the novelty/innovation factor. Other than the massive changes in tone, characterization, hours of new material, bloated action scenes, and new or over developed characters that added nothing to the story. sunday at work fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 22:23
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Christopher should sell the rights to The New Shadow; give the studio something to slap a recognized brand on but nothing of any real value to screw up.
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Nov 10, 2017 03:01
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euphronius posted:Tolkien wrote those books to make money selling them so .. I mean what is the difference . These stories were his lifes work. He wrote them for his kids and because he was a huge dork for languages and to create a body of myth for his nation. He was probably one of the few authors ever who would honestly have been perfectly content to just write his body of work even if it never sold a single copy.
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Nov 15, 2017 16:41
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viral spiral posted:... Nothing that is bad about those movies would have been improved with more prep time. Spending more time getting ready to make a movie about the battle of the five armies wouldn't do anything to make that movie less of a shallow, meaningless action sequence that misses the point of The Hobbit. The real problem with the hobbit movies is that they completly ignore the message of the book. Bilbo Baggins does not, and never would leap out of a tree to stab an orc to death. That isn't his strength. That isn't why Gandalf choses to bring him along. Gandalf brings him because of things like a few pages later where he uses his wits to get everyone into Beorn's house, a scene that isn't in the movie.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:53
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Bongo Bill posted:The fact that the Hobbit movies ended up missing the point of the source material is not what's wrong with them. There's nothing that requires an adaptation to be anything like what inspired it. Brands are an illusion. If only there had been some kind of story they could have adapted, something with a point on which they could have hung all the exciting things that happened.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:33
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Wow I always forget between rereads how Bree-land and The Shire are just rural England.
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Apr 10, 2018 14:36
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The Last Alliance was basically everyone of note left in the West laying seige to Mordor for like a decade. It's not as if they just slid up in there and clowned him in an afternoon. And if Sauron were to get the Ring back there would be no comprable force to oppose him.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:49
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Word is the Amazon TV series is going to start with young Aragorn for the first season, drawing from the appendices, and have nothing to do with the War of the Ring.
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May 19, 2018 16:00
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I've never seen it but I've heard that there is a clip of that scene with out any of the effects and her performance is supposedly amazing without all the CGI and auto tunning.
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May 22, 2018 03:47
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euphronius posted:The Galadriel ring test ? Interestingly that’s an almost literal word for word translation from the book. Adaptation is hard. What do you reimagine and what do you leave alone? You don't slather Cat Blanchett in CGI and alter her voice.
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May 23, 2018 13:34
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There is a long sequence in the third movie I think where the dwarves fire up a bunch of furnaces and melt a huge pile of gold to try and kill Smaug by pouring the gold on him. The gold doesn't kill Smaug, he just flys away. The whole thing is just more brooding Thorin and wanking over CGI. Just a completly pointless addition that amounts to nothing.
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May 23, 2018 19:12
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Runcible Cat posted:Or "hey, it's just a couple of assholes nosing around who cares I've got bigger fish to fry." Tolkien's very explicit all along that it never occurs to Sauron that anyone's going to try and destroy the Ring, so he's unlikely to think anyone sneaking around Cirith Ungol is doing anything other than spying and/or running the wrong way when chased by Shelob. And if Sauron thought for one second anyone would ever try to destroy the ring Mount Doom would be swarming with Orcs and Trolls no matter where the bulk of his armies were deployed or how many ways there were into Mordor. Nothing, not even the Eagles would be able to get within miles.
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Aug 3, 2018 00:20
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Finding the best people he can and pointing them in the right direction is Gandalf's purpose. The Istari are in Middle Earth to offer consul, not to lead. Gandalf knows the odds and the stakes. Especially after Saruman turns he has to realize any sort of intricate plan he could come up with is going to end with him in charge and succumbing to the Ring.
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Aug 3, 2018 17:39
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It's fitting that the Ring is ultimately undone through the narrow minded actions of the people fighting against each other to posses it. Those who have held it will always in the end try to claim it and in that pursuit they will lose all sight of any other concern to their own end.
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Aug 4, 2018 05:06
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HoME mentions that the stone was left there to mark the meeting place where the oath was sworn. I think I read somewhere that the oath invoked Eru, which is why it was so powerful, but I can't find any reference to that.
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Aug 6, 2018 16:27
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cheetah7071 posted:And Cirdan Wouldn't Cirdan have been the oldest elf in Middle Earth at the end of the third age? He left the great journey to seach for Thingol. It's possible he was among the first of the Elves to awaken.
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Sep 12, 2018 21:49
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Isn't Glorfindel the only elf that ever comes back to do anything? It's not like they can just respawn at their last save point. The Elves are of Arda, they exist wholly in the world. If they die their spirit stays in the world. Their immortality makes them a lasting part of the world to the point it's not too much of a stretch to view them as a physical feature of Arda as much as the mountains and rivers. Their immortality and physical perfection sets them apart from Men who are defined by their transience and a fate that is ultimately beyond the world.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:27
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