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Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

i81icu812 posted:

Yeah.

And when's the last time you saw a modern opera or modern non-musical stage production? Source material is great, but the neither medium is in great shape right now.

That's a good question, and I don't remember, but I was a kid then. But I wish that everyone forgot Jackson's Tolkien for a few years. As a horrible Tolkien nerd I really liked to see those in the movie theater, but atm, I'd wish that the works would be laid aside for a few years, until someone else with a different view would do something else with the source material. Túrin's book would be p. much a ready work for someone.

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Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Runcible Cat posted:

Like I've said before, Tolkien really didn't trust techie/mechanically minded types.

Even down to the Miller.

What makes that funny was the fact that he was a signals officer.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 14:08 on May 11, 2015

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

I might have missed this detail in my read-through, but do Tolkein's elves have pointy ears?

Probably yes:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_Characteristics#Pointed_ears

quote:

I am afraid, if you will need drawings of hobbits in various attitudes, I must leave it in the hands of someone who can draw. ... I picture a fairly human figure ... fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown)."
JRRT - Letters #27, writing to Houghton Mifflin circa March-April 1938

And he didn't mind or say anything when his elves were drawn with pointy ears.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Baloogan posted:

are there black or asian elves?

yes, they're called orcs

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

I got a crop question:

Hobbits grow potatos, tobacco pipeweed, and tealeaves, agricultural products the English heavily use but aren't native to the British Isle. Did these crops likewise originally come from beyond the Shire, or did Tolkein decide to make them native produce because why the sod not?

Pipeweed was also called westmansweed so it definitely came from Numenor. The Hobbit used to have tomatoes, but they were later changed to pickles.


Runcible Cat posted:

Isn't Mim the Dwarf pottering around with a sack of potatoes when Turin and his gang first jump him?

Yes.


Tolkien just liked them I suppose.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

I haven't read The Children of Hurin yet (should I?), but I've been thinking about it going through the bits in Unfinished Tales. While from a world-building perspective there's nothing wrong with having the good guys eat poo poo, trying to put it in the framework of "Anglo-Fantasy Veggie Tales" raises a lot of questions. I guess it has something of a Job vibe to it, but Job also feels out of place in the JudeoChristian Literature.

You should definitely read it. The audiobook version is also great, it's read by Christopher Lee himself! It's not based on the Bible but on pagan sources, mainly on Kalevala's Kullervo poem, and also has elements from Oedipus and Volsung Saga.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Sep 3, 2015

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
Yeah, characters that make stuff happen are interesting. That's why Fëanor is the most interesting character that Tolkien created.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Catsplosion posted:

Another vote for Fëanor from me. That dude was a badass. I'd love a cinematic retelling of his story as long as it's closer to lotr than the hobbit in style.

Bruno Ganz as Fëanor.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

NikkolasKing posted:

Of course, Numenor's Doom was ably aided along by the Vala, who left Melkr's right-hand free to do as he pleased. Also I'll never forget that, at one point, the Powers send an emissary to Numenor when the Numenoreans are losing faith, and the emissary's message amounts to "I know it's been eons and eons and eons beyond counting since you had any involvement with them but I assure you, THEY ARE right over there. You can't see them or interact with them though but you MUST obey them absolutely. Just take my word for it that they are immortal and wonderful and better than you and t hat you going there won't help anything."

Worst. Diplomat. Ever.

Of course, the whole Tale of Neumnor is uncomfortable as it's rife with Tolkien's Catholicism mixed in with ancient ideas and myths. The result is something that offends modern sensibilities in the extreme. Oh I love The Silmarillion to death but no matter how many times it tries to push forward its morality, I simply will not buy in to certain things.

Like why Turin ultimately killed himself. Incest isn't that bad.... I believe the Pharaohs married brother to sister, didn't they?

Númenor sank because Man was too proud.

Pharaohs married their sisters, but Túrin's saga was based on Finnish Mythology and brother-sister loving wasn't allowed in Finland.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
No one knows: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Origins_of_Dragons

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

NikkolasKing posted:

Given their sheer power - these are the things that were Morgoth's only hope against the Host of the Valar - it's reasonable to assume that they were born from Morgoth's essence. Morgoth's great flaw was that, for all his power, he was not infinite, like Eru. Thus, to make things he always had to break himself down. It seems fair to suggest that Morgoth, who was even weaker than subordinate Sauron by the end of the First Age, squandered even more of himself by creating his great trump card.

From where have you read about their power levels?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
Interesting stuff, I think I have read it before, but I didn't remember Morgoth being so weak.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
why are americans obsessed with happy endings

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
At which point did Tolkien turn Gollum's ring to the One ring?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
News read in Quenya: http://www.ruutu.fi/video/2410952

Curumo hosta túra úme telpeva Angoston; mo cene Endóre taura carastale har i osto. I carastier cé sauratuvar vilya.

Queni enétier lil cendaler i núle ”morne roquenion” Endoresse palan. Ingolmor sanar sa i cendaler er incar alasaile nar.

Nyatil nórello Periandion: Vilvo Lavingi, sinwa an utúries i lóce Ráhu, avánie ve rinca merendello nostareryava.

Lauce súlir caituvar ilya Endorenna. Lairina áre rahtuva Eppelo Lómíva tenna Ondóre. Ulyale úva Ondóreo rómenna, yasse mo cenuva loalúmen alasenya untúpie lumboiva ahosta.

Már' andúne, vinyar ata enwa.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

euphronius posted:

The way the books were written the Hobbit basically is the thingol / nauglamir story recast. It had not been published yet. So Tolkien used a lot of elements from his unpublished works for the Hobbit which was written as a one off stand alone fantasy adventure. Later he connected everything .

So Mirkwood is Doriath in a strong sense.

Never thought about it in that way, but yeah that makes sense.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Bit off the beaten path, but I found a comic for this thread!




haha

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
Drug or Elf

i got a pitiful 27/30

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Bongo Bill posted:

The best adaptation of the Silmarillion would be similar to Fantasia, I think.

Yeah, that was my first thought too. At least for all the god stuff.


Nessus posted:

I think you could get an opera out of all that Feanor poo poo.

Agreed.


euphronius posted:

Turin Turambar is way too depressing for anything that would be filmed today. Same for Beren and Lutien.

Yes. But Túrin could make for a good series.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

MonsieurChoc posted:

Scored by Blind Guardian.

why not by dragonforce if you want to be mean

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

Tbh, it sounds like your friend just needs a good trolling. Laser focus on Jordan dying before finishing the series-that's where I'd start. Also that the only author he ever 'inspired' was Terry Goodkind.

and grrm

and the friend in question is a massive tool

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Bongo Bill posted:

Is an orc just anybody an elf doesn't like, or is it a specific group of peoples?

they are dismounted huns

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

I just bought Children of Hurin.

nice!

Could you give your take on the story while you're reading it? I'd really like to hear it.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
are the bog elves actually any different from the orcs?

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

euphronius posted:

Saruman is also a clear parody of fascist strong men using the radio.

wan't he more of a caricature of all crooked politicians

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

glowing-fish posted:

Related, here is a story Tolkien wrote about give-gifting (although for a birthday and not for Christmas):

ᛚᛟᛚ

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
i will never forgive that they made gimli a comic side kick

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
lotr movies were decent fantasy films, even if they didn't follow the books' themes

but hobbit movies should have been cut so that there would be only one film

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

chernobyl kinsman posted:

:jerkbag:


man you're making a lot of assumptions about what kind of movie i want based on my criticisms of how lovely the action sequences are and how bad the writing is

the movies we are discussing here are bad. they're not good movies. there are good movies; good movies exist. even good movies with very large budgets, like these movies, exist. despite the universal need to appeal to a wide audience and turn a profit, good movies have been made in the past and will continue to be made in the future. these movies, however, are bad.

loving hell mate

dsyp

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
aragorn should have married glorfindel

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

my dad posted:

Hey, at least it's not Foundation. :v:

now there's a bad series!

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

SHISHKABOB posted:

Can you make an alt that just posts interesting things in here when you get your month long probations for wishing death on people. You are extraordinarily knowledgeable on this stuff and I really enjoy reading what you have to say.

he can't because he's mentally ill

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoaO4i-v0Aw

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

webmeister posted:

Aragorn needs to release his tax records

and his birth certificate

yeah right, you just happen to be the long lost heir with numenor and elf and maia blood

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Nessus posted:

Why even have the Rings if you're not going to use them?

to know the age of maiar and elves when they die

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

More rightful claim than Aragorn had.

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
monarchies have no problems that a guillotine couldn't solve

Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug

Nessus posted:

The numenorians did have longer lives than regular Men. Also Elves looking out for them. Elrond was born before Numenor was even made, wasn't he?

Yes.

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Hogge Wild
Aug 21, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Pillbug
ahaha

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