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Right, Tolkien very deliberately ensured that there was no Watsonian explanation for Bombadil, and barely a Doyleist one either. His default answer when asked was pretty much "It's a mystery; get over it."
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Jul 22, 2017 16:13
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I have unleashed a dark evil upon the world by mentioning the Hobbit films and I am genuinely sorry for it. Is there some sort of CD-Batsignal leftover from Radium's old forum code that makes this happen?
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Jul 24, 2017 17:35
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sassassin posted:That's the least effective kidnapping of all time, then. Try again.
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Aug 1, 2017 16:25
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skasion posted:Of course you can, have you never had like manchego or anything? I can't recall the exact quote but part of the Shirrifs' duties were wrangling and returning strayed farm animals. So they did keep some livestock, but I don't think the species is ever noted.
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Aug 13, 2017 17:15
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Thank you!
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Aug 13, 2017 20:27
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skasion posted:I’ve been listening to his History of Middle-earth stuff instead. Treason of Isengard at the moment. It’s p good, I had never really paid attention to some of this early material like the bitchin’ early draft of “Earendil was a mariner” where he kills Ungoliant and flies off to the sun goddess(?) to become some kind of lightning deity, or his first attempt at writing Saruman’s appeal to Gandalf which is way creepier and subtler than the published version. Where is that stuff? I don't see anything tagged or named HoME in the podcast feed I'm using. I've been listening to the archived stuff from the beginning. Silmarillion Seminar was some very interesting discussion, I skipped the Faerie course and Riddles in the Dark, going to give the SilmFilm a shot but will probably skip it in favor of going directly to the Lord of the Rings series of episodes he's doing now.
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Feb 4, 2018 03:15
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I thought the Men of Erech swore to Isildur to fight with the Last Alliance, and refused to march against Sauron's forces in that war? Sauron still had the Ring at that point.
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Aug 6, 2018 14:57
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MadDogMike posted:Huh, that actually made me wonder something; is Gimli the son of an aristocrat too? Obviously Thorin and his two nephews were nobility among the Hobbit’s dwarves, but I just realized I’m not sure if Glóin and the other members were. If any of Thorin's companions weren't nobility before the Quest for Erebor, they drat sure were afterwards. And anyway Glóin specifically (and Óin, and Balin and Dwalin) was related to Thorin through their mutual great-great-grandfather Náin II. More than half the dwarves in the Company were Thorin and kin, and probably more, since there's no family tree listed for the other six. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 19:26
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Nessus posted:Re: Galadriel, it is possible Elladan and Elhrohir were able to give her the entire list of probables, since I think the only real surprise was Pippin and Merry instead of like, Glorfindel and poo poo. "...so there's no way they're going to send any of the shortarses other than the poor dumb bastard who's holding on to the Ring, they'd just get weepy when they chuck him into the lava, so don't worry about them. Really I've forgotten their names already. Oh and Thranduil sent his fuckup kid along to tell us about his latest catastrophic whoopsie, so if they do some sort of corny 'all Free Peoples' horseshit then expect to see his hillbilly rear end there too. Dwarfs? Hell I don't know. You can't really tell them apart anyway. So anyway, whaddya got on tap out here?"
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Oct 3, 2018 07:30
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cheetah7071 posted:Treebeard is probably my favorite lotr character Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! Go gently caress yourself.
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Oct 25, 2018 04:19
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Hogge Wild posted:That would explain the Proudfoots. PROUDFEET! webmeister posted:Is that a Bolger in your pocket or are you just happy to see me Got a Fatty for ya.
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Nov 2, 2018 03:39
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The slow fade was Gandalf's plan, and it was absolutely the best move given that all Mordor had was "Shire" and "Baggins" from Gollum, and no clue as to the context, including the existence of Hobbits or the location of the Shire. Remember that most of the outside world knows nothing about them either - it would have taken months or years to find the backwater place. On the other hand, if Frodo had rabbited - if yet another "Mad Baggins" had vanished without a trace - then that's a story that gets repeated, and ears will hear that ought not to. There are two reasons the plan failed and Frodo barely escaped in time, and it was only both together that spoiled it. One, Saruman imprisoned Gandalf and delayed his return to the Shire (maybe Gandalf should have seen this coming but you can't blame it on Frodo's judgement). If Gandalf had been on schedule, they'd have set out on the journey months earlier. Two, the Nazgűl, apparently by complete coincidence, ran into Gríma Wormtongue on the road from Edoras to Isengard. Wormtongue, being a sniveling cowardly little poo poo, spilled the beans about the things Saruman had been neglecting to tell Sauron in hopes of seizing the Ring - notably his interests in the Shire. This is covered in a section of Unfinished Tales because Tolkien couldn't make the timeline work without it - there's no way the Black Riders should have been in the Shire that soon if they were hunting on their own. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 09:35
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Mahoning posted:I don’t think this is true. Gandalf leaves at the end of June because he has heard some news that troubled him. He tells Frodo he might be right back but at the very least he’d be back for the predetermined departure date of Frodo’s birthday (September 20th). Gandalf was hoping Frodo left sooner, but when Frodo suggests his birthday, Gandalf instantly agrees to it. There was never any other plan or schedule. I checked a timeline and I think you're right here, thanks.
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Nov 24, 2018 14:56
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Sadly, it is in the Extended Edition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZLnDaqo1M
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Jan 2, 2019 17:55
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We're talking like the Uruk-hai were Saruman's creation, but they were first seen out of Mordor more than 500 years prior to the story when they attacked Ithilien and Osgiliath.
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Jan 22, 2019 02:23
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skasion posted:“Uruk-hai” in all but one occurrence in the book is used to refer exclusively to Saruman’s orc soldiery. “Fighting Uruk-hai” is exclusively used for this group at all times. “Uruk” is used more generally to refer to any large soldier orc whether from Mordor or Isengard. Not clear how Sauron made his uruks, but I don’t think Tolkien ever accuses him of race-mixing. No, Saruman was the one that was rumored to have done that - but the implication is that the result is Man-passing spies like Bill Ferny's friend in Bree. Yes, Saruman commanded Uruk-hai (gathered by him from the Uruk-hai who scattered after the sack of Osgiliath? Or lent to him by Sauron?) who were to some extent loyal to him, though it is definitely interesting to speculate whether they would have remained so had they faced Mordor in open battle and Sauron bent his will upon them. Those large soldier orcs are also the new breed of Orc known as Uruk-hai, and they serve both the White Hand (with discipline and perhaps even loyalty), and the Eye (through slavery and fear).
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Jan 22, 2019 02:51
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I haven't read that. Would you mind posting a quote or two? If the one you posted above is from there, I'm not sure it supports that reading by itself.
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Jan 22, 2019 03:15
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Thanks for posting the excerpt. Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but I still don't think that refers to the Uruk-hai - it seems just as obvious to me that they're the larger soldier-orcs referred to in the story of the sack of Osgiliath. I'll try to find that reference when I get ha and not phone posting, and we can compare. Treebeard isn't omniscient - he's speculating and it stands to reason he may never have closely examined varieties of Orc in the past few centuries. It's a drat shame Tolkien never came to a definitive answer as to the original of the Orcs that satisfied both his world-building and his Catholicism.
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Jan 22, 2019 04:03
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Thanks for posting the excerpt. Okay, from Appendix A, pt iv, "Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion", section "The Stewards" quote:In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. The strong black Uruks in Moria are the same folk as Saruman's Uruk-hai. The suffix "-hai" is Black Speech for "folk" or "people", and is also seen in "Olog-hai", the stronger Trolls that appeared out of Mordor at the end of the Third Age, and "Oghor-hai", which is what the Orcs called the Drúedain as per Unfinished Tales. So while Saruman almost certainly bred Men and Orcs, there's no convincing evidence that the product was the Uruk-hai, who had already appeared half a millennium prior. Saruman didn't start gathering (and breeding) Orcs until 2990, as per Unfinished Tales. The War of the Ring was not even 30 years later - long enough to breed a single generation of half-Orcs (maaaaybe two), but not nearly long enough for a real eugenics program to create (or even "improve") the Uruk-hai. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 05:53
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I think we have to assume that all Rings of Power - whether the sixteen generic major rings, the Three, or even the minor rings that Gandalf called "essays in the craft, before it was full-grown" all operate on the same basic principles, and because those were designed by Sauron as Annatar, would all be vulnerable to the same back-door attack from the One. I rather suspect that Saruman wearing a Ring (the capitol letter is in the text), even of his own making, would leave him even more open to influence from Sauron than domination via palantir alone. He almost certainly couldn't puzzle out enough to fix the vulnerability. But I also doubt that Saruman had enough understanding and ability to make a very powerful Ring, so I doubt much of his power and self was bound up in it, if any. That seems to have been exclusively a feature of the One related to its ability to dominate, both other Rings and their wielders, and other beings in general.
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Jan 22, 2019 06:55
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Data Graham posted:Um, have the Olsen podcasts stopped having new episodes for everybody else lately it just me? I'm still in the early 30s in the backlist but I see episode 89 having dropped six days ago.
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Jan 26, 2019 19:58
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In the translator's defense, Moby Dick is hilariously gay.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:41
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SHISHKABOB posted:That doesn't address what sassassin just said. BoL's a troll, everyone should know this by now. Weak effort this time, though.
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Feb 3, 2019 20:17
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SHISHKABOB posted:I have one person on ignore on this whole site after 7 years. It's definitely not going to be someone who posts good stuff on the regular. Yeah I disagree with sassassin pretty often but they make for good discussion.
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Feb 4, 2019 03:51
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There's also a pretty extensive narrated passage when they first appear talking about what humungous assholes they are. VVVV They got two. "Down to Goblin Town" when the Company is captured. VVVV Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 14:54
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euphronius posted:LOTR started off in hobbit world. Then he added in the Silmarillion world to LOTR. Then he went back and drug the hobbit into Silmarillion world including famously the retcon of the entire Gollum and Bobo scene in the hobbit. But Silmarillion world was changing behind the scenes the whole time too so it’s confusing as gently caress Perhaps while you're doing this research you might uncover the secret of why you keep calling the character "Bobo".
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Feb 9, 2019 04:21
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Shibawanko posted:Where is it mentioned that they were machines? A really early version of "The Fall of Gondolin", one of the first times Tolkien wrote any of his legendarium down. He was recovering in a hospital camp at the time so the horror of trench warfare and mechanization were a big big influence, even more so than the rest of his work. I believe it's in Book of Lost Tales 2.
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Feb 12, 2019 07:48
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skasion posted:Which Bond should play Elrond "Rond. Elrond."
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Mar 8, 2019 03:48
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That's the Akallabêth, collected in the Silmarillion.
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Mar 12, 2019 15:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:https://twitter.com/leepace/status/1122654652439367680 Yeah, I really would have liked to see it. My wife got me this as a consolation prize birthday present, though: https://smile.amazon.com/Tolkien-Maker-Middle-earth-Catherine-McIlwaine/dp/1851244859
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Apr 29, 2019 05:02
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Blood Boils posted:As for the capacity for good, we all agree they write good tunes. Wasn't there a line about some battle on the 2nd age where all races fought on both sides except elves? Not sure Description of the Battle of Dagorlad that ended the War of the Last Alliance, at the Council of Elrond, FotR. I don't have the text handy to quote.
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Jun 11, 2019 04:22
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euphronius posted:The current LOTR seminar is amazing. Skip the first 10 mins (announcements) and the last 30 or so (mmo stuff) Hahaha, really? I'm catching up, currently about 9 months behind and he hasn't gotten to the Ford of Bruinen yet. I thought for sure he'd at least be into the Council stuff by now. And yeah, skip ahead to the start of actual discussion and don't bother with anything after he says goodbye to Twitter or whatever.
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Nov 20, 2019 03:44
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Octy posted:Oh well, 90% is fairly decent...Lucky for me, I re-read The Silmarillion recently. 90% also, because I mixed up Erestor and Crestor and Effexor. Oh well.
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Dec 1, 2019 05:54
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Lake, Smaug, and Twelve Sinking Barrels Oh my god
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Dec 15, 2019 09:45
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Ents and Entsibility Raiders of the Lost Arkenstone
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Dec 22, 2019 09:14
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Imagined posted:Those are nice. These were the first versions that I had. My 8th grade English teacher gave them to me. <3 The ones with Tolkien's own art on the covers. This is what I think of as the Lord of the Rings books. I read my dad's copies when I was a kid, this edition. Wore them out, actually, because I didn't treat books carefully at that age. I bought him new copies of this edition a few years later, and got them when he died. I have several other editions, multi- and single-volume, but these are what I will always picture in my mind.
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Jan 21, 2020 05:40
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euphronius posted:Toll prof stopped updating his podcasts Five episodes dropped on Friday, though?
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Feb 18, 2020 01:35
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E;nvm
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May 27, 2020 18:16
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Runcible Cat posted:Well, the Nine are all accounted for, technically, but I suppose he might suspect Sauron had dropped one. Originally the Seven and the Nine weren't made for Dwarves and Men, but were part of the plan to destroy the Elves. There were a bunch of rings made by Sauron or with his direct aid, then Celebrimbor made the Three without Sauron's help. When he forged the One Ring to bind all the Great Rings to him, he didn't figure the Elves would catch on so fast. Because they all took off and hid their rings, he couldn't backdoor in and corrupt them. So he seized as many as he could (sixteen) and went for Plan B: use them against Men and Dwarves. I've always wondered if there were more than sixteen rings he could have seized and used, but that's all he managed to grab and the Elves destroyed any others except the Three, which were deemed safe to use after Sauron lost the One.
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May 28, 2020 20:57
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't know if there were any other great rings that were unaccounted for but Gandalf does mention that there were numerous lesser rings crafted by the Elves that still held power and could be perilous in the wrong hands but were not as deadly as a great ring. Gandalf originally assumed that Bilbo's ring was one of those so called lesser rings. Of course, but I mean could the Seven and the Nine have been the Eight and the Ten if Sauron had been able to snag another couple of the non-Three Great Rings on his way out the door. There's nothing supporting that supposition in the text at all, I admit that. Just pondering.
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May 28, 2020 21:05
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