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a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Yea if you have any hobbies, things start eating away at your storage space fast. Living in a condo without a storage unit is especially a struggle. Every time we move, we purge a bit and it’s hard to give away things like skates and then need them two years later.

I think if I moved 12 times, I’d probably have zero clutter too.

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qhat
Jul 6, 2015


It’s wild how much crap you accumulate when your living space gets larger. My last move was truly gruelling since I’d been there for years, I’ve resolved these days to make an effort to go through my apartment and either get rid of poo poo or put it up on marketplace, even then I still think I’m going to be surprised how difficult my next move is going to be.

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

Femtosecond posted:

I think the big cities should make permanent street parking passes cost $50+ a month. This is still well below the $100+ one would pay for a permanent reserved space in a covered lot.

This would drive people to actually use their garages for cars instead of hoarding uses. The streets would be freed up for better uses.

Is that not how it works in most places? Ottawa charges $750 for a year. You also have to be in a designated area that allows for that and you must not have access to off-street parking.
Also all it does is exempt you from the usual time limit within your area. It's not 'reserving' a spot and if there's a pay meter you still have to pay it.

Judging by how mad car people get about this I have determined that it is very effective.

Slotducks
Oct 16, 2008

Nobody puts Phil in a corner.


Leave house for university, have no space to bring all your childhood stuff
Parents keep it in their basement
Come back home after university, don't go through and purge childhood stuff
Leave and move to small apartment, have no space to bring all your stuff
Parents keep it in their basement
Find love, get married, get into medium apartment, have no space to bring all your stuff
Parents keep it in their basement
Luck into house, move in day, parents dump all your childhood poo poo on you
Daunting pile grows in garage/spare room/basement
No will to go through it - haven't seen/felt/processed these items with memories in 10+ years

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Slotducks posted:

Leave house for university, have no space to bring all your childhood stuff
Parents keep it in their basement
Come back home after university, don't go through and purge childhood stuff
Leave and move to small apartment, have no space to bring all your stuff
Parents keep it in their basement
Find love, get married, get into medium apartment, have no space to bring all your stuff
Parents keep it in their basement
Luck into house, move in day, parents dump all your childhood poo poo on you
Daunting pile grows in garage/spare room/basement
No will to go through it - haven't seen/felt/processed these items with memories in 10+ years

You forgot: grandparents die, no room to keep sentimental stuff - add it to the pile or throw your memories away

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Fidelitious posted:

Is that not how it works in most places? Ottawa charges $750 for a year. You also have to be in a designated area that allows for that and you must not have access to off-street parking.
Also all it does is exempt you from the usual time limit within your area. It's not 'reserving' a spot and if there's a pay meter you still have to pay it.

Judging by how mad car people get about this I have determined that it is very effective.

The annual fee in Vancouver is $66.

The ABC party accused Mayor Stewart of planning on raising the fee, and ran ads on this non stop on conservative talk radio during the election, despite the fact that Stewart literally voted against this motion. As a result they practically swept council and got a majority and Stewart's party got zero seats. :shepicide:

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
People get absolutely rabid over parking

COPE 27
Sep 11, 2006

Parking should be safe, legal, and rare.

Tangy Zizzle
Aug 22, 2007
- brad
Parking enforcement officers should have similar legal powers as Judge Dredd.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

yeah japan has the right idea:
-Can't own a car without proof of parking*
-little to no free street parking
-very simple national zoning system that allows people to easily build and adapt.

You just bought a little 50x50' lot with an old house on it, you don't own a car and don't want one. You tear down the old house, which had a bit of a paved front yard area with a carport, and replace it with a house that mostly fills the lot because you also personally don't value having a back yard or anything. You do this easily by-right without needing 5 years of re-zoning hearings. Years later you decide to start a neighborhood small business so you just add a floor to your existing house or replace the whole thing and build a 3 story building with a shop on the bottom. Again, no re-zoning needed because this sort of retail/business space is simply allowed just about anywhere. Neighbours don't scream about character or shadows because everyone is used to neighborhoods changing and adapting and besides its not like there's a process that gives their nimby opinions any sort of legal power to block or delay your construction. You don't provide any parking for customers because that's up to you too. The neighbors don't complain about you creating traffic or stealing their street parking because street parking doesn't exist on your narrow 20' residential street. Most everyone just walks to your shop, because there's enough density in a walking or transit distance to give you the customer base for your business to succeed. You have cheap housing, cheap retail space, and your weird marginal business can succeed and support you because your costs are so low.

*the proof of parking is also based on the specific vehicle. So if you buy a tiny little car you only need to waste a tiny bit of land on your lot for parking, which is another huge incentive to not buy a stupidly bloated over-sized vehicle. Also when you have to give up a chunk of your own limited land or pay market prices for parking, just not owning a car at all starts to make way more sense to most people. People can have personal vehicles, just price everything fairly.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 26, 2024

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

338 people per square kilometer with 97.8% racial homogeneity is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your carless small business utopia there.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

How do you see the racial demographics factoring in?

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Subjunctive posted:

How do you see the racial demographics factoring in?

I can't speak for OP, but butting into the thread as expected from someone living south of you, our zoning and permits are built to enforce racial disparities and prevent minorities from living in heavily-white neighborhoods. Because wealth/class/race are all so heavily intertwined down here, even something as simple as "just make it cost more and be harder to do" acts as a(n often legal) tool of segregation.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

Sundae posted:

I can't speak for OP, but butting into the thread as expected from someone living south of you, our zoning and permits are built to enforce racial disparities and prevent minorities from living in heavily-white neighborhoods. Because wealth/class/race are all so heavily intertwined down here, even something as simple as "just make it cost more and be harder to do" acts as a(n often legal) tool of segregation.

It's this.

Health Services
Feb 27, 2009
So how does that factor into the Canadian context?

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Health Services posted:

So how does that factor into the Canadian context?

Do I need to spell this out? It factors in because Canadians are a bunch of racist shits just like us down here. On top of that, you have drastically higher ethnic diversity than Japan (69.8% white / 30.2% other, per wikipedia) and therefore more opportunity to show your true colors than the JP counterpoint. You're just slightly more polite and quiet about it than the USA tends to be, and plus we're so awful down here that we suck all the oxygen out of the room when it comes to bad behavior. :v:

https://www.homelesshub.ca/blog/living-colour-racialized-housing-discrimination-canada
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Housing/SubmissionsCFIhousingdiscrimin/CERA-NRHN-SRAC.pdf

The very fact that you don't have nice, easy zoning rules and flexible land use in otherwise residential-zoned areas is because the classism/racism is already baked into your system. It "doesn't work" because your society already decided to do that, whether in a mustache-twirling moment of villainry or just as an inevitable outcome of the comingling of wealth and race. Even aside from people liking more money and therefore not wanting to weaken the value of their house assets, they're going to be doubly disinclined to increase housing availability / flexibility because houses as an asset are part of the racist structure in the first place. It's like a Detroit resident saying "Gee, if we just let black people live on the other side of 8 Mile Road, segregation would be gone! It's easy!"

(For reference, since this is not a USA thread: Here's 8 Mile Road, Detroit MI:)


It's entirely the point that it's that bad. "Working as intended."

Sundae fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Mar 27, 2024

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002



Redlining was apparently a thing in parts of Canada too but "racism just like the US" is not really a satisfactory explanation for why zoning laws, post-WW2 suburban sprawl and car dependence are the way they are. Canada was much more homogeneous than the US before 1990:



e: whoops the title isn't in the plot, that's visible minority population from https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/dai/btd/othervisuals/other010

Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Mar 27, 2024

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

You don't need to be a visible minority to be discrimated against by the English Protestant ruling class in Canada (but it helps).

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Zoning came about in the 1930s and while it was probably largely a classist effort to keep the poors out (no apartments = no poors) it was also convenient way to keep out the undesireable races, because generally they were also relatively poor and also lived in apartments.

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

Precambrian Video Games posted:

Redlining was apparently a thing in parts of Canada too but "racism just like the US" is not really a satisfactory explanation for why zoning laws, post-WW2 suburban sprawl and car dependence are the way they are. Canada was much more homogeneous than the US before 1990:



e: whoops the title isn't in the plot, that's visible minority population from https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/dai/btd/othervisuals/other010

Sure, there's more than that too. Plenty of that results from plain ol' spillover from american post-war car culture when manufacturing flipped heavily from war to consumer goods and gave birth to suburbanization.
Let's remember that The Death and Life of Great American Cities was already published in 1961. Robert Moses and Le Corbusier had massive influence on urban planning in Canada as much as in the states. I don't know directly about other cities but I can point at the Gréber Plan in Ottawa which clearly drew straight from their ideas.

It's also not required to have the same kind of racism to push restrictive zoning laws although it certainly intensifies it. Classism by itself can do the job. Again with reference to Ottawa, there was division from the start between the rich side with the Anglos and Scots and the poor side with French-Canadians and Irish.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Kind of a weird meandering [Kerry Gold warning] article here but has some interesting quotes from developers about how important presales are to them and how good foreign buyers were for presales in the past.

quote:

How foreign money can help us meet our housing goals

....

As well, private development depends on market cycles, and housing only gets built on the upswing. To get a high-rise project built, developers need to obtain financing by selling enough presale units within a 12-month period. That’s where investors and foreign money play a key role, says Tony Letvinchuk, managing director, Macdonald Commercial Real Estate. Mr. Letvinchuk says those inclusionary housing units would have been built during “the heyday” of development, when the numbers made sense. He argues that foreign capital helps provide the financing needed to build condominium towers throughout the region. Those towers are most often the source of below-market housing units because if market conditions are favourable, the developer can make them work. That’s where foreign investors come in.

Several years ago, in response to an overheated market and foreign purchases, the province brought in the foreign buyer tax, as it was known. Two years ago, the federal government introduced a foreign buyer ban, and recently extended it.

“The levels of government and the central bank are trying to do the right thing for the issues facing the public and for the financial stability of the country, but at the same time some of these policies work against the stated goals for housing supply,” says Mr. Letvinchuk.

“We had that bulge over 2017, 2018 and 2019 and presales were very strong and the core of that often came from what might be described as foreign capital for a home in our marketplace, and those presales actually contributed to a rather large degree to getting projects off the ground.”

That made the bottom line workable, he says, which allowed for a mix of housing options, such as the city of Vancouver’s inclusionary housing policy to include 20 per cent below-market units.

“Now they are looking like brilliant deals, because you couldn’t do that today given the current interest rate environment and the cost to build,” he says. “We don’t want to be negative, but that was the heyday, in the past decade, for getting housing built when financing was at rock bottom and construction prices, at 30 and 40 per cent of what they are today.”

Another fact of privately built housing is that it caters to investor demands, which may not be the same type of housing needed by working locals with families and lower incomes. Developer and real estate consultant Michael Geller has argued in favour of government-mandated policy for larger, family-friendly units.

Mark Goodman and Ian Brackett, brokers at Vancouver-based Goodman Commercial, say that investors are attracted to concrete towers and “bare bones” units that can command top rents. Concrete towers take years to build, and investors can afford to wait because by the time of completion the unit will have likely gone up in value.

“If you are someone who actually needs to live in a unit, not many people can plan five years from now, whereas an investor can be more patient, put down a deposit, wait, get the unit, and then hopefully the price has gone up in that time,” says Mr. Brackett.

“These presales are the lubricant for the developer,” adds Mr. Goodman. “They finance the projects, and because you don’t have that, it translates to less housing, which translates to less units that add to the rental pool plus affordable rental components, and one could opine the net effect is negative for the country.”


I think it all really speaks to how dysfunctional the housing regulatory and financing system is in this country has been, if it's been so incredibly difficult to impossible to build a building without external presales from overseas.

Seems like if we had a functional system, to raise funding for badly in demand housing, it should be pretty easy to finance.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


Fidelitious posted:

Sure, there's more than that too. Plenty of that results from plain ol' spillover from american post-war car culture when manufacturing flipped heavily from war to consumer goods and gave birth to suburbanization.
Let's remember that The Death and Life of Great American Cities was already published in 1961. Robert Moses and Le Corbusier had massive influence on urban planning in Canada as much as in the states. I don't know directly about other cities but I can point at the Gréber Plan in Ottawa which clearly drew straight from their ideas.

It's also not required to have the same kind of racism to push restrictive zoning laws although it certainly intensifies it. Classism by itself can do the job. Again with reference to Ottawa, there was division from the start between the rich side with the Anglos and Scots and the poor side with French-Canadians and Irish.

I've posted this before, and the whole documentary is worth a watch, but the dude that designed Kitimat railed against highways through cities because of the damage it does. He specifically talks Washington, DC and was completely right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kYA5mGWNgo&t=1097s

We knew cities built for cars sucked 65 years ago and just made poo poo worse.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Here's the thing, tons of investment in housing is good. The problem is how that money is being spent. For most of human history when housing is in shortage, the massive investments in housing are to build more housing. But in our insane nimby-captured cities, the money goes mainly towards just bidding up the existing housing stock. People then see this and think "gosh, if only we could get all this drat investor money out of the housing market there wouldn't be a problem!" but the problem isn't the money, it's the lack of new housing.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
And if investors do invest in large projects to build new housing, people who already own housing start freaking out about their property values.

The longer the bubble continues, the worse this effect will be.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

Basically for decades we've been legislating a system where there is an artificial lid on housing development, and so housing investment money can only flow into a relatively tiny handful of individuals which ends up giving them outsize political control, and massively enriching them while not actually creating all that much housing.

Every step of the way we have made it harder and more expensive to build housing. The end effect is that housing creating is dominated by a relatively small handful of giant housing corporations with very wealthy owners.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
I think the current hunt by investors looking for endless growth that you've seen in tech and elsewhere means that what housing is built is also the least efficient as well. There's a lot more profit in suburban homes than there is in denser housing that would create more homes for people in the same amount of time it takes to build one dethatched house.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




I don't know how true that is. There are a lot of duplexes in Vancouver that got built and never sold. I don't think the margins are that much better, and the construction window is only like a year or so less.

And right now the duplexes going up were based off 2020/2021 land prices. At the 40-50%-increased current land prices, high density starts to look like the only thing you can build and stand any chance of making any money.

Lexicon
Jul 29, 2003

I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.
They never sold? So they’re just sitting empty?

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




They found tenants I'd imagine. The empty homes tax pretty much ensures it.

I dunno - looking at the solds vs expireds for duplexes it looks like maybe three quarters sold. The one I was watching closely across the alley from where I used to live sold one half but the other sat on the market for 220 days before expiring.

This was a case where they bought the "land" in 2021 for $1.4M, spent probably $1M+ on construction (never mind carrying costs) and were trying to sell the two units for $1.5M each.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

time to pump this poo poo again

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1778437019334475811

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012



It's not just that:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-allow-30-amortization-first-152125524.html

They're also upping the RRSP withdrawal limit to 60k and extending the time until you have to start repaying to five years.

tagesschau
Sep 1, 2006
Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.
I don't know how anyone serious could look at a problem caused almost entirely by people being allowed to borrow far more they can afford, and decide that the solution is letting them borrow even more.

At this point I'm almost convinced that they're trying to set things up to explode spectacularly on Poilievre's watch, and let him take the blame for the ensuing years of pain.

leftist heap
Feb 28, 2013

Fun Shoe
More do-nothing ultra marginal poo poo from the party that specializes it. They could up the RRSP withdrawal limit to infinity and it would probably not move the needle an observable amount.

Anyway we're getting our first taste of the new municipality act changes here in lil ol Esquimalt. A development including a 26 story condo tower and 8 story rental building was approved by town council without a public hearing due to the new rules and people are absolutely losing their minds over it.

Juul-Whip
Mar 10, 2008

oh boy 60k. thats like 1/4 of a downpayment

Segue
May 23, 2007

For those keeping track, the median after-tax income in Canada is $68,400 as of 2021 from Statistics Canada.

Pulling out almost an entire year's worth of income from what is the only retirement vehicle for many people, so they can go into debt for even longer than before now 30 years, and that amount not even reaching a 10% downpayment on the average home (more than $700k) basically shows the priorities of Canadians and this government.

Just build housing and ban real estate television and airbnb. Jesus

a primate
Jun 2, 2010

Two people I work with have Brampton mortgages and have borrowed far more than they’re actually allowed to. One just bought a new house worth even more. The system works!

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

Everyone I talk to seems to have this idea that central bank rates should always be sub 1% and the current situation is unheard of in modern human history. They think I'm joking when I tell them that interest rates were double digits for most of the 70s and 80s and even into the 90s until I show them the data. People got addicted to cheap money and their solution to fix the problem is more of it instead of trying to fix the addiction.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

The only good thing here is the part where the 30 year mortgage is limited to new homes. It's good to try to incentivize new home construction instead of encouraging people to buy some ancient cheap apartment and renovict the current residents.

Femtosecond
Aug 2, 2003

hahah the folks that massively overextended themselves and got hosed are getting bailed out.

https://x.com/btaplatt/status/1778449339079074201


quote:

Allow some borrowers who were given temporary amortization relief during the pandemic (say, 35 years) to have that relief be made permanent

Who could have imagined that the government would prop up housing and under no circumstances not let it fail ????

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Purgatory Glory
Feb 20, 2005

Femtosecond posted:

hahah the folks that massively overextended themselves and got hosed are getting bailed out.

https://x.com/btaplatt/status/1778449339079074201

Who could have imagined that the government would prop up housing and under no circumstances not let it fail ????

So dumb... instead of paying back 200 bucks a month to your RRSP it's now 330 a month if you make a full withdrawal. Double that for a couple. Young people don't need lower prices, they need to borrow more from their retirement... gently caress these can-kicking assholes.

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