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Toronto, Vancouver, and Calgary are the three best cities in the world for real estate investment: http://www.thestar.com/business/real_estate/2014/04/09/toronto_vancouver_calgary_rated_tops_for_real_estate_investment.bb.htmlquote:Their star ranking doesn’t come so much from short-term metrics like return on investment, but their longer term “resilience” — a stellar combination of “low vulnerability and high adaptive capacity,” says the unusual report, more than three years in the making, by the U.K.-based Grosvenor Group. Yes, once international capital has turned London into a luxurious ghost town, it should definitely come here.
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Apr 9, 2014 15:49
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Another rate cut just seems silly to me. Interest rates have been at historic lows for years. It's not like everyone's been putting off doing things because 1.00% or 0.75% are ridiculous rates. Will cutting them further actually spur more economic activity or encourage borrowing? It seems something that isn't particularly useful when you've been doing it for the last five years or so and you're still screwed.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:21
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Anecdotally, rents in Toronto have been going up an insane amount. My friends were trying to move into a building they'd looked at a year ago and rent for a 1bdrm was up to $1,850 from $1,450. A place I used to rent for $1,600 last year before moving is now $1,900. And these are big, old, commercially managed buildings, not landlords trying to cover the mortgage. With the new rent increase laws once you get a place and never move ever I guess you're fine but it's still significant increases, much more than I've been used to seeing in previous years. This Toronto Star article says it has been a jump of 11%, higher than normal but still seems low to me. The article tries to tie it in with fewer people buying meaning rental demand is up, plus landlords pricing in rent controls that now exist for all buildings, not just those built before 1991. But the buildings I mentioned were already affected by those laws. I guess they're just following the trend. Still, it's going from "things are tight" to "Vancouver" levels right quick.
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Sep 16, 2017 03:06
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CRISPYBABY posted:
It's all insane. I grew up in KW and seeing it transformed into yet another unaffordable place is so frustrating. I'm currently in Toronto and actually contemplating buying a (older, non-glass) condo even at the inflated prices because the stock market is also hugely in a bubble so there's not much alternatives for my money to go, and my friends keep getting renovicted and the lack of stability in renting is horrifying. I was talking to a friend and while we both love the city, if things keep New Yorkifying, we wonder how much of the city we love will be around. But then as more of my friends price out to the suburbs, I realize how lonely they are since no one is going to be able to visit your nice fancy home in Galt. The fact that this thread has been around so long and nothing has changed is so disheartening.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:04
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THE BEATWEAVER posted:We escaped the impact of the 2008 economic crisis by the skin of our teeth, learned nothing, and long ago blew past the worst state the US ever hit immediately before that crash. The global economy right now is teetering in the worst state it's been since the roaring twenties, and its only going to take something like Brexit or a startup unicorn imploding, or China getting too handsy with a soveriegn nation post HK to set it off. That's the irrationality of it. My brain is just stupidly latching on to these things because in these sorts of circumstances it's hard to just sit on yout hands. I've sat out and said the same thing for the last six years and things keep going apace. As you watch society crumble in front of you and seniors on fixed incomes get kicked out of their rentals, it's hard not to latch on to shelter as the one thing I need. I doubt I'll buy because the market is insane but I've gone from never wanting to, to feeling the pull more and more as late stage capitalism upchucks everything.
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Nov 22, 2019 18:35
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My sister who lives in Vancouver was visiting me in Toronto and she and her partner commented on how vibrant the art and culture scene was compared to Vancouver. I started listing all the cool venues that had closed down due to rent hikes. As someone who would be bored stiff in a small town where I have to drive everywhere I'm terrified of Toronto hollowing out more and more. But talking to someone who lived here 20 years ago was eye-opening in just how much gentrification has already hosed things. Choosing between a condofied city and an affordable suburb seems like a pretty awful choice tbh.
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Feb 23, 2020 23:04
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Mortgage rates are so incredibly low that the carrying costs of a property are comparable to what they were awhile back. Honestly with the insane amount of capital sloshing about from banks I doubt much improves. Sure overleveraged shoebox landlords in downtown may get burned but detached homes are probably only going to skyrocket, particularly in the suburbs. As WFH takes hold maybe downtowns will change and get hollowed out but this thread has been waiting for the other shoe to drop for a decade so optimism is not high. One thing this crisis has shown is that governments and banks use all their powers to protect wealth and stocks.
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Oct 15, 2020 16:34
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I just want to say salary discussion always staggers me as I talk with people getting by on minimum or glad they have a good salary of 45k while living with roommates in Toronto. gently caress this unequal society and the misery it produces. I don't want to see what the next few decades produce. But as a single person maybe I can afford a downpayment on a nice one bedroom walkup somewhere by then so the constant stress of being evicted when I'm old doesn't eat at me.
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Jan 25, 2021 00:39
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My favourite thing about the rise in prices in Ontario is that the Princess Margaret Hospital in Toronto has a biannual fundraiser in the form of a housing lottery with several gaudy showhomes donated by developers. It's amazing to see the showhomes priced for millions of dollars, but I now know several friends who buy tickets every time because it's the only way they can see themselves affording a place in Ontario. It's for a good cause, but the monetization of property ownership is just crazy.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:52
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What's been frustrating to me as a single person is I'd be super happy to have a condo in the city but those are now equivalent to houses, doubling in just a few years. Like I get it, owning a detached home in a major urban centre has been a bit of an outlier in Toronto compared to the rest of the world and it makes a bit of sense that homes are exploding since there's really no new ones. But that studio condos in a tiny skybox are now a third the price of a multi bedroom house you own full out because of rampant speculators. A nicer condo isn't a huge discount from a house. I never expected to own a home, but seeing condos which there are so many of, hockey stick too (I could've afforded a downpayment easily five years ago if I hadn't just graduated) is really depressing.
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Mar 16, 2021 18:56
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Toronto is so weird. I can bike like six blocks and go from the most densely populated neighbourhood in Canada of St. James Town to giant Rosedale mansions. This city does not do middle ground. I jusy want all the cool poo poo that makes this city worthwhile to hang on. The Manhattanization is so depressing.
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Mar 28, 2021 02:39
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My friend just bought a condo in downtown Toronto entertainment district. It seems like a weird time to buy with so much uncertainty and hopefully the airbnb regs and vacancy taxes starting to affect things, but honestly who the hell knows with this stupid market. She just wants a stable place to live in a city she plans to stay in long term and I hope for her sake it she can keep swinging it. I hope for society's sake everything burns.
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Mar 29, 2021 18:53
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I have a friend who recently had her second kid and moved to a small town outside Ottawa because it was affordable and "it has great opportunities for price growth". I asked her what would happen for her kids if this last bastion of affordability grew to itself become unaffordable. She had honestly never considered the effect of unmoderated house price increases for her children, only that she could make more money. The financialization of shelter is a disease.
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Apr 2, 2021 18:51
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I would love more apartment co-ops. There's a few lovely buildings you'll see in Toronto that are rental co-ops. Only problem is they were all established in the 70s and their waiting lists are almost never open and most aren't online. I'd be perfectly happy renting for the rest of my life if it felt like I was part of a community and not subject to the petty whims of whatever faceless corporation took over my building next. But instead even that sort of long term renting is becoming less of a thing and it's all condo owners who let you live in their investment property for a few years before renovicting you. I just find it frustrating. Like how much more of people's income can go to housing where the disposable income disappears? Reverse mortgages can't sustain spending forever, can they?
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Apr 8, 2021 22:56
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Yeah there's the buying co-ops which exist in white areas primarily to keep out the "undesirables". You'll see them in the St. Clair and Rosedale neighbourhoods in Toronto, and there's a whole bunch of legacy ones in NYC. You buy a share of the building and the deposits are usually very high and it's harder to get a mortgage. Rental co-ops are just trying to cover operating costs and thus have much lower rents since it's the community operating it. You still have your share of exclusionary ones but it's basically the ideal if you want to long term stay somewhere. But the waiting lists can take a dozen years after you take a dozen years to get on them so...
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Apr 10, 2021 16:49
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Yeah the quote that even if housing prices fell by half they would still be higher than prepandemic in some areas is staggering. Exponential growth is a helluva thing.
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May 18, 2021 19:46
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Didn't housing used to have a big federal role before Chrétien and Martin downloaded it all and got us into the crisis we're in today? I imagine reuploading isn't feasible with all the graft developers have on provincial and municipal politics.
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Sep 15, 2021 00:15
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Bank of Canada holds interest rates steady. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-of-canada-rate-decision-1.6328104 This is literally insane to me. I recognize the complex interplay of the states not raising rates yet but goddamn we have seen wealth inequality and inflation skyrocket and we're gonna wait this out? My savings account rate has never been near inflation my entire career, in fact getting worse.
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Jan 26, 2022 16:38
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My new landlord that bought my 50 year old family-managed building is named Starlight Canadian Residential Growth Fund III and they're proposing renovating the lobby and hallways and parking garage that were updated three years ago. I hope they're overleveraged. Segue fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Jun 17, 2022 |
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Jun 17, 2022 14:51
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I had this conversation with a friend who bought in a tiny town outside of Ottawa. She literally said, "I'm hoping that it will increase in price since it's one of the last affordable areas." I asked her if it increases in price where will her kids live when they want to buy something and her brain stutter-stepped. She hadn't thought of the knock-on effects of housing increasing forever.
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Jan 5, 2023 03:22
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My dental hygienist complaining that she bought a new house further out, but it took her until just before Christmas to sell her current Aurora place for "only" $1.5M. So now she's stuck with a $300k mortgage to make up the difference since she bought the new place at the peak thinking her old place would sell immediately. Also complaining about property taxes going up every year! "Where are all the taxes going? I had to pay land transfer tax too. It's like I don't even own my house!" This is a conservative voter through and through. Also with her family income she could only get a $450k mortgage, and now owns a $2M property.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:28
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CBC has been running these title fraud stories for a couple weeks now, and this one seems to have the most detail of all, and unfortunately hits a lot of stereotypes. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/title-fraud-toronto-condo-1.6720439 CBC posted:But Yu, a former international student who now lives in China's Hubei province...only noticed that "something unusual" was going on with her condo, which she bought in 2017 for more than $800,000, when her monthly property management fees weren't charged last July. Million dollar condo sitting empty for three years, perfectly normal economy.
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Jan 20, 2023 17:04
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Mr. Apollo posted:I can only assume that with this many people freaking out about mortgage rates that the amount of fraud on applications is massive. Hoo buddy does CBC have you covered. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/organized-crime-groups-behind-gta-home-sales-mortgages-without-owners-knowledge-1.6719978 CBC News posted:CBC Toronto has learned that a handful of organized crime groups are behind these real-estate frauds — in which at least 30 homes in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) have either been sold or mortgaged without the real owners' knowledge... Now it's a private investigation firm alleging this, and not a lot of proof shown, but if CBC if certifying this, odds are it's a real thing. It basically puts paid to the common argument that our banks are doing thorough research and stress testing everyone to make sure everything is legitimate. Which is obvious given the insane bidding wars and buying frenzies that have characterized the market in the last years. My Favourite Obvious Fact posted:CBC Toronto reached out to Toronto police multiple times for comment, but no one was available to speak on its title fraud cases. Hopefully this breaks open the dam on these types of stories and we get more and more evidence of the silliness. Fun times to watch and pray for a crash.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:00
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Even just as a renter it sucks as all my friends having kids increasingly bug out to the burbs chasing homeownership and more bedrooms. But they've all gone to different suburbs so there's not even a point to moving to be near them because they all chose different residential wastelands I guess that's just part of life, but man it sucks when cities can't sustain their people.
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Jan 24, 2023 00:12
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Fidelitious posted:Home ownership comes with its own set of stress points but you generally don't have to worry that you could just be made homeless with 3-month notice. I think overall it's the last point that is a deciding factor for renters like me. My previously nice old building was bought by a corporation and now I pay rent to "Real Estate Investment Fund III". I've had friends renovicted or threatened with renoviction and the idea of going through that when I'm (ever) retired is terrifying. While it might not make financial sense to buy, the increasing lack of stable long-term rentals makes the decision increasingly weighted even for people like me who saw themselves as forever renters.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:06
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What I find fascinating, even on CBC this morning, is that the focus has been on how high interest rates have risen, even though they are at historic norms. Like yes they've risen quickly but for gently caress's sake we basically have had no rate for as long as I've held an adult job. People got used to free money but to act as if this is unprecedented is insane. It's so aggravatinh
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Mar 8, 2023 18:43
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It wouldn't be so bad if we just had large apartments here, but I feel I haven't seen anything big being constructed in decades. It's all so tiny. At least in Europe you have apartments you can raise a family in with density. Here it's a condo with a sliding door bedroom or a home, nothing in between. It's been cool seeing which people I know have hidden family money as they mysteriously buy Toronto houses in their early 30s though.
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May 12, 2023 04:29
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A decent article from MacLeans which goes more into the frustration and despair from younger generations, especially recently. The generational divide is so immense (I'm even thinking of uni students unable to rent now which was easy ten years ago). Optimism! https://macleans.ca/longforms/the-end-of-homeownership/amp/ MacLeans posted:Young voters have been key to electing the last two Liberal governments, but the current government has little credibility with that demographic on this file. That may have something to do with the fact that multiple-property owners, who have profited enormously from the past few years’ run-up in property values, are well-represented in government. More than 100 MPs, comprising more than one-third of Parliament, own multiple properties.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:50
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Had a conversation with an acquaintance who bought in 2021 freaking out about how she wouldn't be able to afford her mortgage when it renewed in 2025 at these rates. What would the government would do to help "regular homeowners" like her (who bought detached properties in downtown Toronto for over a million with family help). It's an interesting and frustrating thing because I've seen a lot of leftist economists talk about how the rapid rises are hurting the poor and highly leveraged and stopping housing builds, but the 15 years of rock bottom rates also created this crisis and we're out of other options. Lowering rates isn't going to do anything we just have to face the crisis sooner this way. Everything we do seems to help the rich. The lower middle class absolutely do not have houses, and the rental crisis is much worse than the mortgage crisis. It's so bad there's no way to unravel it all without causing pain, though I bet homeowners will come out fine in the end. I just want to be born 20 years earlier and not watch this madness in real time.
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Jul 12, 2023 17:44
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Femtosecond posted:Seems like private rental in condos increasingly dominating the rental universe would make effective whole building rent strikes difficult. I was talking about this situation with friends, and it's also that condo landlords don't have as much institutional power to do above guideline increases and responsibility for building maintenance, which is what a lot of these are about. They're still uniquely lovely in their petty evictions for family use, but it's a different situation. I am interested in seeing how long term condo rentals happen in buildings 20 years from now. I think it'll definitely be much much worse. Hooray!
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Aug 18, 2023 18:31
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My grandmother just sold her bungalow in Blenheim, Ontario (population 4,500) for almost $400k. Love this country, very sane and normal.
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Nov 28, 2023 21:47
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It just feels like everyone caught on to this too late. The feds are finally moving, Toronto just approved a massive new co-op, but it'll be years before anything hits. It takes time to build things and now it's harder for people to live and work to build those things. At least they're building 2,000 rental units on a downtown corner by me. Maybe by 2030 it'll help some people.
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Feb 19, 2024 00:08
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/renters-pickle-boys-bc-vancouver-squamish-burnaby-affordable-housing-1.7146707 For many in B.C. finding a rental has become a full-time job, competition is fierce Renters are selling themselves to landlords, with Metro Vancouver rents Canada’s highest CBC News posted:For the past seven years, Forsyth has paid $1,700 a month for a unit in Squamish. I love how this eviction is just presented as something you can't do anything about. Just gotta pay more money to prevent arbitrary home loss. Oh wait- CBC News posted:In B.C., no-fault evictions are only permitted if the landlord or their family is moving into the unit, or it's being demolished, renovated or sold, and they require several months' notice. The province had the highest rate of no-fault evictions in Canada, according to UBC research in 2023. I'm glad for once they're focusing on renters even if it's pretending that lovely landlord speculators are Acts of God CBC News posted:Burnaby chef Kumariah Shunmugavadivel and his wife Niranjana Kumariahare also moving, with their nine-month-old, to take over a bakery business. The article later goes into some of the major initiatives underway that won't pay off for years but I can only hope it works.
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Mar 19, 2024 14:31
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Laughing at all this from car free Toronto what an awful way to live. I'm able to afford rent, food, events, and so much more life without a car, can walk or transit all through the GTA and can rent a car or van on occasion if needed. As my parents age, they're looking to move here because they've seen what car dependence did to isolate my grandmother and their friends, and I expect we'll get more awful stories like this as people age too. https://sfstandard.com/2024/03/18/woman-78-accused-of-manslaughter-wrong-way-driving-in-fatal-west-portal-crash/ The lack of imagination to reimagine cities like Amsterdam or Paris have done is really why things are so bad. It's not the end of the world and in fact there is increasing investment to make it easier to not own a car even outside the GTA.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:13
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For those keeping track, the median after-tax income in Canada is $68,400 as of 2021 from Statistics Canada. Pulling out almost an entire year's worth of income from what is the only retirement vehicle for many people, so they can go into debt for even longer than before now 30 years, and that amount not even reaching a 10% downpayment on the average home (more than $700k) basically shows the priorities of Canadians and this government. Just build housing and ban real estate television and airbnb. Jesus
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Apr 11, 2024 19:23
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/housing-prices-affordability-real-estate-1.7170775 A relatively decent article on how no politician really wants to deflate home prices and how Canadian domestic investors are a real driver, along with our complete inability to see homes as shelter and not a financial investment. But then this amazing quote which reminds me business schools are so dumb and I can't believe they get paid to say this Guelph Professor of Real Estate posted:Governments also have an interest in high property values because they translate to larger tax revenue, said Diana Mok, associate professor of real estate at the Lang School of Business and Economics at the University of Guelph in southern Ontario. I'm convinced between this and marginal tax rates any hope of civic education on policy is just lost. This is why no one even tries to understand the carbon tax
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Apr 15, 2024 17:50
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