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unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
A <5% annual ROI. Golly.

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unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
Y'all are crazy. I averaged $30.00-$40.00 a week at Uni.
I'd go on Sunday nights, load up on marked down meats (and freeze them), and pad out meals with salads and cheap veggies like cabbage and potatoes. I mean a head of cabbage is about $1.00/lbs. Potatoes and onions are cheap. $30.00/week is completely doable for one person.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

HookShot posted:

It's actually awesome, and I'm a real city person. It sucks not having any real major stores around, like if I want to go get photos printed at London Drugs or buy small appliances, that sort of thing, it's a 40 minute drive to Squamish. Most things, like electronics and stuff, I just order online now. Also the rent makes me want to cry, paying $2100 for a 2 bed + office place. But the advantages totally outweigh the negatives.
Where do you work in Whistler? Also get me a job there thanks in advance.

I'll wax your skis for a year!

cowofwar posted:

Financial decisions lose their gravity when the transactions involve debt and not cash.
I was looking at financing options for an iPad yesterday because the thought of spending all that money out of pocket was abhorrent. :downs:

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
"I own a boat, a Lamborghini and a 2 bedroom + den in Trump Tower" - said no fabulously wealthy person ever

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
An 80% vacant condo must feel weird and cavernous.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
Ewww.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Saltin posted:

It is also interesting to consider - say 25 years from now, in the second scenario, you need to sell the house for $680,000 minimum to consider yourself ahead, and that's leaving all the other expenses out of it.
Wouldn't it need to be more than $680,000, after adjusting for inflation?

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Rime posted:

Like I said, there's that quote (I think I expanded on it better in one a few months later) there's a sort of mental roadblock in North America where people simply do not (or refuse to) understand the concept of purchasing power relative to inflation. $30k is absolutely still viewed as being in "the good life" by people, especially those over the age of 40, despite being barely above (realistically) the poverty line for a single individual these days. I don't know if it's because minimum wage jobs account for such a huge percentage of income earners, or boomers just being fiscally retarded, or what. :shrug:
In the GTA, I can't imagine raising two kids and giving them the kind of lifestyle experiences that will make them socially mobile (volunteering, sports, other extracurriculars), while simultaneously responsibly saving and investing, on a household income of less than $90,000/year. Renting or owning.

I imagine "middle class lifestyle" still works out to 2.5 kids with extracurriculars, a mortgaged house, and at least one vacation or road trip a year.

e.
My little sister is in competitive gymnastics and my parents are paying a couple grand a year on that alone, and it's her only extracurricular. Two cars for two working parents, early childcare, et cetera.

unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jan 13, 2015

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Kraftwerk posted:

I think that the humans on this Earth have a moral responsibility not to reproduce for a while so the population declines to more sustainable levels. As population declines the demand for labour resurges and the value of that labour is higher since it's scarcer.
So who gets to decide who reproduces while we're waiting for the overall population to decline or stabilize?

etalian posted:

Also lolling how people in keeping with Johnson areas like GTA feel to need to pay for piles of extras for their kids like private school, expensive vacations, tutoring or costly after school extra-curricular activities.
Maybe not expensive vacations, but exclusive private school and costly extra-curriculars are extremely beneficial for your child if you can afford them. Nepotism is alive and well in 2015, and being able to say "I did X, Y, Z (crazy expensive things) while in school" on a job or professional school application is huge.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Mederlock posted:

I rent for $540 a month all utilities incl. with 2 other roommates in a 3bdrm town home in Edmonton and it loving rocks, I don't understand peoples fixation with owning, I'm perfectly happy renting, saving money on monthly expenses and having more money as a result to save/buy poo poo
Biggest appeal of owning to me is having a sense of stability. I've moved house on average every two years my entire life, usually because of parents or school, but sometimes because of landlords. Having a piece of ground I can call my own would provide peace of mind that isn't really quantifiable.

Joe Average can throw around numbers or the notion that it's an investment all they want, but I think home ownership is mostly a psychological thing.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Baronjutter posted:

Which can be easily countered by strong tenant's rights. Most of my euro-friends rent, even if it's a house or urban apartment, and they all feel totally stable and build big basement or attic-spanning train sets because they have full security that they're never going to move unless they want to.
How do they negotiate home improvement projects, though?
The other appeal of ownership is that if I decide to remodel the kitchen or build a deck, I'm not effectively making a landlord wealthier.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Baudin posted:

Do you have sources for any of this or are you pulling it out of your rear end?

Which part are you objecting to, specifically?

Here are some stats I guess:

47% of Canadians still live paycheque to paycheque posted:

But there are still a large number that would face difficulties after one week of not receiving their cheques, and savings rates remain low, the results show.

The survey by the Canadian Payroll Association found 47 per cent saying they would be in financial dire straits if their pay was delayed as little as a week.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...article4522904/

quote:

Of the $1.3 trillion of debts owed by Canadians in 2012, $1.0 trillion (77.0%) was in mortgages, a share virtually unchanged from 1999. However, the total amount of mortgage debt has increased substantially, up from $453.6 billion in 1999 and $650.8 billion in 2005.

In 2012, total debts in lines of credit amounted to $144.9 billion, up from $33.2 billion in 1999 and $77.5 billion in 2005. One-quarter of family units had lines of credit in 2012, the same as in 2005, but up from 15.4% in 1999. The median line of credit debt was $15,000 in 2012, up from $6,600 in 1999 and $10,200 in 2005.

About 40% of Canadian family units carried an outstanding balance on their credit cards in 2012, virtually unchanged from 1999 and 2005. The median amount was $3,000 in 2012, up 25.0% from 1999 and 11.1% from 2005.

In 2012, $28.3 billion was owed in student loans, up 44.1% from 1999 and 24.4% from 2005. In 2012, one in eight family units had student loans with a median value of $10,000.

Debt load can be measured as the amount of debt owed for every $100 held in assets. Canadian family units had a debt load of $14.21 in 2012, up from $13.06 in 1999. Family units with the major income recipient under 35 years old had the highest debt load in 2012 at $36.44, compared with $3.50 for all senior family units. With a debt load of $29.08 in 2012, family units with the major income recipient between 35 and 44 years old experienced the largest increase, up from $21.28 in 1999.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/140225/dq140225b-eng.htm

Someone can do the math better than me but extrapolating from http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil109-eng.htm then the total debt load between 1995 and 2012 has doubled, adjusted for inflation.

quote:

On the debt side, more than three-quarters of total debt owed by Canadians stems from mortgages. The total amount of mortgage debt grew “substantially” in recent years, Statscan said, to $1-trillion in 2012 from $650.8-billion in 2005. The median value of mortgages was also higher in 2012 than in previous years.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadian-families-worth-more-but-owe-more-too-statscan/article17078187/

quote:

Household debt service ratio (household mortgage and non-mortgage interest paid as a proportion of disposable income) declined to 6.9% in the second quarter. However, household credit debt (consumer credit, mortgages and other loans) rose by 1.3 per cent in the quarter.

As a result, the ratio of credit debt to disposable income, a closely watched measure of the household debt burden, rose to 163.6 per cent, inching up after two successive declines but remaining just below the record 164.1 per cent hit last year.

But the longer-term slowdown in debt growth remained intact, according to a Statistics Canada report Friday, with a year-over-year rise in household debts of just 4.1 per cent, the slowest pace since 2001. On top of that, the debt service ratio – interest payments relative to disposable income – dropped to 6.9 per cent for the lowest in on records dating back 24 years.

Meanwhile, household net worth rose 2.3 per cent in the second quarter, to a record $8.1-trillion (or $227,000 per person), driven primarily by a continued rise in real estate values. As a result, the ratio of household credit market debt to net worth – another gauge of consumers’ capacity for debt – fell to 22.3 per cent from 22.5 per cent from the first quarter, the lowest level in six years.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle20573363/

Which is to say, if interest rates rise and housing appreciation evaporates, that ratio gets a lot worse. The home prices are massively inflated (by 30% - 60% depending on who you ask) and if there's a price correction downwards, that net worth disappears while the debt remains.

unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 22, 2015

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
Let's start a goon project to massively profit from the bubble bursting.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Baudin posted:

I love the "turning pristine wilderness into mordor" line

Have you fuckers ever driven around Fort Mac and seen your "pristine wilderness?" It's hardly some shining wilderness which is being converted to a smoke and tar filled landscape. Really wish I had taken some pictures of the landscape while I was up there.

"pristine wilderness" /= beautiful

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

PT6A posted:

See, I don't think this is true. I know the "actual rich" people you're talking about, people who have 7-8 figure net worths that they maintain by running one or more companies, and they sure as gently caress pay a lot of money in tax, both personally and at the corporate level, and they're always worried about the CRA coming for more. One guy told me, "if the CRA comes and says 'you owe us X', and X is any less than $50,000, it's not even worth paying an accountant." I suspect his tax bills are rather high, if that's the case.
I don't care if they're 'paying a lot' -- I care if what they're paying is an equitable amount.

I know Canada isn't America but Warren Buffet's secretary etc.

It's like CEO pay. Paying a CEO less or removing their golden parachutes won't save a company or balance the budget. However, it would be better for society's psyche.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
I'm mostly opposed to someone who grew up here, who lives, works, and pays into the system, being priced out of the market by foreign investment. I don't really care where or who the money is coming from.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Throatwarbler posted:

Yes, the "system" you paid into which grants you a call option on real estate? I must have missed that item on my T4.
You're right, the system is flawed.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

computer parts posted:

So if Jews were doing it you would say "those drat Jews are ruining everything "?
I think you can note a demographic reality without invoking blood libel.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Xoidanor posted:

No one actually needs a mansion. It is literally what rich people buy when they've exhausted all other alternatives. Someone on these forums once said that owning a boat is like owning a hole in the water that you have to throw money into. A mansion is not a hole, it's a goddamn landfill.

I'd just do like the whats-his-name media mogul and buy a bajillion acres of land instead.

Then deed it to a conservation trust in my will :twisted:

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Rime posted:

I'm pretty sure that a €250k property purchase grants you automatic Spanish (and thus EU) citizenship as well. It did a few years ago, at least.

Bottom line, if you're loaded there are so many better places than rural Canada to fritter away millions.

VVVV: There's several for sale in BC right now, but at BC real estate prices so :shrug:
I'm guessing for most people, a sense of place and proximity to loved ones outweighs what is 'objectively' the better option. I know if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be moving to an estate in Caledon (or similar), not to Spain.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Hmm... If he invested the $278,000 instead of buying a house and had an average ROI of 7%, he'd have $2.43 million today instead.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Avshalom posted:

Avshalom.

hay gurl

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

PT6A posted:

Our overall system utilization is increasing, but not in the areas where we already have schools built and functioning, because our citizenry is retarded and bad.

It's the same story in the GTA. Suburban schools popping up everywhere while giant baby booner schools in Toronto proper sit half empty.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

ocrumsprug posted:

Please.

You want to avoid the $15 Walmart strollers, but $700-1200 is ridiculous for one. They haven't increased THAT much in the decade since I bought one.

E: you can pretty easily spend 4-500 though, so I cannot recommend children as a financial strategy. My wife still reminds me that I should not have talked her out of flushing ours down the toilet when she was still small enough to fit.

$4-$500 for a stroller still seems pretty dumb.
I'm not sure what this one offers at $580.00 http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=12296266
that justifies a $480.00 higher price than this one: http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=12849502

The cup holder I guess? More under-seat storage?

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
carry your infant like humans have for tens of thousand of years you lazy neolithics

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
I've been on two transatlantic Air Canada flights in cattle class and neither were awful and you all sound like big babies

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Saltin posted:

Guy who's been on less flights in his life than some people take a month declares coach acceptable.

Frequent flyers are a fraction of the air travelling population, so I'm guessing the opinions of people like me carry more weight with the airlines.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
Stats like these seem really important. It's a shame we don't have some sort of national program in place for systematically acquiring and recording information about the members of a given population.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Oakland Martini posted:

$12,000 per year is a lot for travel, I guess, but it's not that hard to do. Travel is insanely expensive. My girlfriend and I will have probably spent, by the end of April, somewhere around $40,000 on travel during the previous year. The 1-week liveaboard scuba trip we took in the Galapagos was close to $14,000 for the two of us alone. Not that this is sustainable behavior, but I say when you're young you ought to take advantage of your spryness and travel as much as you can.
Satire is cool & good

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Oakland Martini posted:

Ok, maybe I exaggerated. Looking at my travel expense spreadsheets it was closer to $30K.

Assuming this isn't a joke, "extreme luxury travel is expensive!!" should never be a metric in policy making.

I mean enjoy your 5-star vacations but gently caress (the universal) you if you complain about the cost.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
I wouldn't want to malign anyone for making a healthy choice in general, but I'm guessing red meat alone is the least of 99% of the population's health worries.

That being said, poo poo's getting expensive. A few years ago I could go down to Kensington Market in Toronto and get ground beef for $2.50/lbs. I'd make a mountain of hamburger patties and freeze them. Now it's close to $5.00 when it's not on sale.
I made the mistake of wandering in to a boutique butcher and they wanted ~$24.00/lbs for a ribeye. Even the bison ribeyes in Waterloo were cheaper than that.

Somewhat relevant to the thread because in the three years I was at my last job they gave everyone a raise of 2%. I left making less than when I started.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Mortgage underwriters are preparing for a flood of delinquencies from Alberta: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/genworth-braces-for-downturn-in-alberta-real-estate-1.3007917
At least we can take comfort knowing their financial profligacy will be chastised by the Conservatives, for whom simple kitchen table economics is the highest form of wisdom.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Financial Post posted:

“For our parents, it was normal to take out a $200,000 to $300,000 mortgage, whereas now first-time home-buyers regularly borrow $700,000 to $800,000,” says Brandon Wasser, a 29-year-old agent with Royal LePage in Toronto.
http://business.financialpost.com/2015/03/25/seven-mistakes-millennials-make-when-buying-real-estate/

:psyduck:
It's like real estate agents live in some horrifying parallel universe.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

PT6A posted:

If someone wants to fritter away their money on magic beans, or whatever else, that's their business.
If you wouldn't let your mother fritter away her money on magic beans, why would you let anyone else do it?

I mean yeah utopian communitarianism is a ridiculous concept but I also think a disregard for the well-being of people outside your social circle is something that should be discouraged. If someone wants to fritter away their money on magic beans, someone should have the foresight to sit them down and explain why it's a terrible idea.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
Just make a sales tax that only applies to items that individually cost $50.00 or more. Essentials can be cheap but milk the luxury goods.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

Baronjutter posted:

A few of my parent's boomer friends have the whole "retire in mexico" plan. Obviously money goes a lot further there, but none of them speak a lick of spanish.
"We don't can't negotiate with hostage takers."

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

etalian posted:

In a related note:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...rticle23769285/


Also clever real estate agent doesn't understand the connection between oil prices and inflated alberta real estate
I don't understand the complaints here, except unless they view property as a liquid asset.

The oil shock is a few months old by now. Why are these fools acting like they're surprised that things on the ground aren't reflective of oil prices a year ago?

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

cowofwar posted:

People get psych degrees because it's the one subject they didn't take in high school and therefore it is romanticized. Every other subject is boring because they are boring and it involves hard work. As a consequence the psych program has to be easy to deal with all these self selected rear end hats in order to keep their tuition rolling in.
I've taken enough psych courses to have a hard time believing it's any more or less of an easy ride in the upper years than any other undergrad.

Anyway, in Ontario the real issue is that there's no hard and fast provincial standard for student performance in any given grade. Differing parent and student dynamics mean that an 80% in a Grade 12 University-stream course in one high school represents a different level of ability than an 80% Grade 12 University-stream course in another high school. Too many low-performers in a classroom means the work needs to be dumbed down for politics/optics reasons.

I imagine this is less of an issue in math and maybe science, but there were kids in my last English placement talking about needing to maintain their 80% average while the work they were turning in was 70% range at best.

unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008
I'm eligible for the ancestry visa through my grandmother and I should probably take it.
If nothing else, the UK is hungry for teachers in a way Canada will never be. I just wish I could end up in Northern Ireland.

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unlimited shrimp
Aug 30, 2008

triplexpac posted:

Has there ever been a crash that people in power predicted? Instead of just saying "oh things look bad but it will all be fine"
I'm guessing the people in power have a vested interest in talking about how bad things aren't, because if they were ever honest there would be panic. That sounds pretty :tinfoil: though -- maybe they're all just as dumb as they continually look.

But can you imagine the public reaction if Harper got on the mic and said, "Commodity prices are down and poo poo's about to hit the fan. Buckle up."

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