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Baronjutter posted:Man there's got to be a system were housing can be rented yet the renters feel a sense of ownership and have a reason to improve and maintain the property. Some sort of lease with owner-like rights? There already is with something called the Vienna model for affordable housing, even though it's hardly something that could be applied for other cities. It pretty much only works because the city has a property monopoly and also gets a good federal subsidy to keep the housing costs low.
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Aug 29, 2013 02:08
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Baronjutter posted:So have the government say gently caress you to the banks, crash the housing market, then scoop the whole thing up on the cheap. 3 simple steps to solve the housing crisis, realtors HATE him. To answer your specific questions the Vienna model does allow owner like rights such as tenants being able to remodel their home and also allows relatives such as children to inherit the lease from their parents.
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Aug 29, 2013 02:37
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PT6A posted:Could you lose some money, depending on what happens? Yes. That's the inherent risk in home ownership. Given rents in Calgary right now, though, I'd probably take a loss of property value rather than throwing money into the incinerator as renting would represent at this point. If the property market is inflated here, it's absolutely nothing compared to how inflated the rental market is at this moment. Price-to-rent ratio is still very low compared to other cities, especially so since the flood. People seem to forget unless you do do lower term loan you are throwing money into the interest payment incinerator for the first years of a home mortgage.
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Aug 29, 2013 15:24
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Lexicon posted:Not to mention, the incinerator of transaction costs. It boggles my mind that society has decided it's acceptable to forgo the equivalent of 2 years rental payments to a cartel of slicked-hair, 6-week course hucksters every time you sell a property. There's a good reason why those pricks always drive around a Lexus or Mercedes plus always try to sell people on myths such as the market can only go up or owning a home is a important life milestone like getting marrried.
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Aug 29, 2013 18:20
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Anyone looking forward to buying a reasonably priced condo in Vancouver in a few years?
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Aug 31, 2013 14:57
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Lexicon posted:
Canadian Housing Bubble Thread:Glass towers of betrayal
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Aug 31, 2013 21:01
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Vancouver as economic winner.
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Lexicon posted:Sorry, James, but The Economist disagrees Plus the problem how Canada has even exceeded the basic stats vs. the US real-estate bubble such as home ownership and price vs. median 1970. The economist even has neat graph tool here: http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/11/global-house-prices (Canada Light blue vs USA dark blue) 
etalian fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Sep 4, 2013 |
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Sep 4, 2013 20:43
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Lexicon posted:Holy hell, that USA graph is an absolute spectacular exemplar of 'reversion to the mean'. Another interesting graph, comparing income vs house sale price:  So pretty much the Canadian bubble is happily still chugging along, while the scale of the US bubble actually drove prices below the normalized average line.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:54
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It's just so sad to see the perfect storm again of increasing household debt and also people buying into the price can only go higher mindset. I suppose the only difference vs. the US bubble is Canadian banks have slightly better rainy day funds. Are the Canadian banks also following the same over leveraging trap similar to the US bubble? Sort of like how some companies burned by the bubbles such as Goldman Sachs were overleveraged at wild ratios such as 32:1.
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Sep 5, 2013 00:36
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Lexicon posted:Yeah, it's called the taxpayer, via the CMHC. So the finance system is basically Obi Wan Kenobi?
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Sep 5, 2013 04:30
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Cultural Imperial posted:Just postin' a datapoint. I liked the related article on the site: (Why real estate doomsayers continue to be wrong) http://business.financialpost.com/2013/09/04/canada-housing-doomsayers/
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Sep 5, 2013 16:09
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Paper Mac posted:Ah, the president of the Toronto Realtor's Group says "markets surging" and "buy, you buy now"? Well, that sounds good to me! I loved his quote quote:James McKellar, academic director of the Program in Real Property at York University’s Schulich School of Business, predicts smooth waters ahead. His response to an admittedly leading question about a Canadian real estate bubble was met with, “There is no bubble so I don’t know how it can burst. Each time I share this view with the media, the story dies. So many journalists embark to prove an assumption that is false.” Later during a telephone conversation, he had more to say about journalism’s role. “The media has gone out of their way to tell people that the market is going to collapse,” McKellar says. “The good news is that the readers aren’t listening and people are still buying.” Prices can only get higher!
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Sep 5, 2013 16:12
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Good news everyone! MLS says in Toronto we're all a bunch of nervous nellies! Nothing says affordable like having 5.7 for the median income to house price ratio in the GTA.
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Sep 5, 2013 16:39
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Why is the cost of housing going ever higher good? Well it's good for real estate agents and banks. (Until the bubble bursts)
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Sep 5, 2013 17:20
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Yeah, it's great for people who already own a home, but it requires a non-zero level of thought to realize starter homes costing a million bucks in Winnipeg means no one can afford houses.
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Lexicon posted:It's clearly not a societal good. No one would celebrate food or energy being hideously expensive (other than respective entrenched interests). It sort ties back into similar to the USA, Canada seems to pursuing a policy of appreciation not affordability by continuing to pump things such as the home loan credit supply. http://soberlook.com/2013/07/for-many-americans-rising-home-prices.html
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Sep 5, 2013 19:08
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Lead out in cuffs posted:The thing is, they're using averages for the house prices as well. Fortunately, you can dig up the actual median Toronto price in this document from the Tornot Real Estate Board (pdf). It's $431,000 for August 2013. The last figures on Toronto median household income are from 2010, and put it at $68,110 (it may be higher in 2013, but probably not by much). So the median house price to median income ratio for Toronto is probably about 6.3 (maybe 6 if you adjust for income increases since 2010). Department of Numbers had a nice megatable for US states, only California, DC or Hawaii equal/exceed the GTA affordability index. http://www.deptofnumbers.com/affordability/states/ RBC also had a report here on home affordability by province: http://www.rbc.com/newsroom/pdf/HA-0225-2013.pdf (find the BC graph for a good laugh)
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Sep 7, 2013 23:55
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I'm curious in Canada is there a capital gain tax exemption for home sales similar to the USA? In the US a joint filing couple can get a $500,000 escape from having to pay federal capital gain taxes assuming you meet the primary residence requirement.
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Sep 9, 2013 00:07
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ocrumsprug posted:Yeah, you are exempt from capital gains tax on your primary residence, afaik. Is it capped similar to the US tax system?
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Sep 9, 2013 00:10
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Lexicon posted:Oh for gently caress'S sake. Garth Turner is reporting that apparently real estate boards are booking multiple transactions on single sales. Well it's a pretty creative way to feed the buy a home fast while you can, sales have never been this high!
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Sep 11, 2013 15:27
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Rick Rickshaw posted:Hah, first time reading this thread. Just bought a house in Halifax this summer, and this thread may have convinced me not to. Mainly because price income makes sense for some areas while other areas such as Calgary, BC and GTA are having much worse bubble behavior looking at the price-income ratio:    Home debtorship does make sense if you have a stable job and are also in a area in which home ownership cost is more attractive for renting.
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Sep 18, 2013 20:16
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Baronjutter posted:Where'd you get that info from? from numbeo even though the RBC's free reports tend to be more comprehensive and also have more useful stats: http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/canadian-housing/house-may2013.pdf For example looking at home affordability Halifax looks good since it's still meets the conservative <25% rule of thumb of housing costs   However the GTA and Vancouver provide a amusing contrast 
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Sep 18, 2013 20:34
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Claverjoe posted:I think I see the problems here. 1 is what the U.S. banks said back in the day, and 2 is just bitterly funny. It also overlooks how many Canadian homeowners are also doing the same HELOC piggy bank approach seen in the US bubble, with the median balance running around $45000.
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Sep 19, 2013 16:21
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spacemost posted:This really only seems relevant in British Columbia. Southern Ontario is not hurting for space, and we have 1/10th the population of the States. Real estate restrictions only make sense due to geography limiting things such as in the case of peninsula cities or city surrounded by really mountainous terrain such as Hong Kong.
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Sep 19, 2013 19:47
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ocrumsprug posted:Condo news out of Toronto If you rent, you are just throwing money away. quote:Toronto real estate lawyer Oksana Miroutenko has had two cases in the last few months where clients took interim occupancy of their new condos, only to find out weeks later, when final payments were due, that they couldn’t meet new, more stringent, financing conditions.
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Oct 8, 2013 17:08
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Lead out in cuffs posted:You build equity faster by renting and putting the remainder away. The first few years of mortgage payments are mostly interest and build you almost zero equity. Most people overlook how if you sell a house you need to build up better equity to actually make money and real estate sales also have misc taxes/fees attached to them. Also depending on the condo you can get nasty monthly fee creep over time. The only time buy vs rent makes sense from a money gamble perspective is if it's in area in which home prices are greatly depressed but rents still are fairly high. For example in Miami housing for decent areas is pretty expensive in terms of rent but due to the 2009 bubble the buy cost is much less per month even with the various expenses factored in such as property insurance.
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Oct 11, 2013 01:05
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Fine-able Offense posted:You're forgetting a bunch of other expenses. Repairs and maintenance, for instance, run about 3-5% of the value of the home per year. Plus the whole concept, let's pay more money each month to be experience home debtorship in a dubious bubble environment.
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Oct 11, 2013 01:10
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Lexicon posted:Transaction costs, too. Yeah only buy if the overall cost is competitive with renting and you also satisfy other things such as working for a financially stable company.
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Oct 11, 2013 02:30
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Lexicon posted:And want to live in the same place for some substantial number of years. Yeah due to simple math the first few years of the mortgage is mainly making interest payments.
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Oct 11, 2013 03:34
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HookShot posted:Haha yeah, I don't necessarily agree with my dad not wanting to pay, it's more of a "yeah there are definitely unexpected expenses involved in owning condos" point. Some condos also go upgrade crazy adding in even more monthly expense.
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Oct 12, 2013 14:14
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Paper Mac posted:I'm looking forward to when condo owners start getting the bills to replace the skins on their buildings in fifteen years and you have to dodge falling glass and suicidal owners to get to work. The Strata fee will cover installing those nets like they have at the horrible Chinese suicide dorms?
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Oct 13, 2013 18:12
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It's a really dumb concept since in my mind hope affordability not home appreciate should be the main goal of housing. Instead you get the US speculative casino system where people think their home is a "investment"
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Oct 14, 2013 18:33
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Lexicon posted:Hell, the UK even went so far as to import Mark Carney to run the Bank of England. Guess what Britain just got into the business of doing? A treasured Canadian practice - guaranteeing mortgages! https://www.gov.uk/government/news/help-to-buy-mortgage-guarantee-launches-today Yeah I remember reading a article about how after 2009 many Eurozone countries decided it would be great to copy the US system where the government ends up guaranteeing mortgages. It would reduce loan rates on the positive but on the negative side just ignore all the scary stuff from 2009. etalian fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 18:55
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Cultural Imperial posted:Whoooo boy. When vancouverites start to realize that they need to pay off their credit cards poo poo is gonna get real. Yeah the over troublesome stat is how Canadian debt levels such as HELOC and crediti cards soured in this bubble.
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Oct 15, 2013 05:11
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Cultural Imperial posted:This is great. Condo builders need to hire tradesmen from Ireland. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-construction-firms-seek-workers-in-ireland-1.2055587 People burned by a bubble help build a bubble in another country.
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Oct 16, 2013 15:35
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LemonDrizzle posted:To be fair, Carney had absolutely nothing to do with that policy - it's entirely down to our wonderful Tory government. For some reason, everyone who is not part of that government thinks it's a loving insane idea in a housing market that's already grossly overheated, but Dave and Gideon aren't going to let trifling distractions like that stop them. The UK is a interesting example of how the subsidized social housing concept eventually got replaced by a US style home ownership craze thanks to Thatcher era policies.
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Oct 16, 2013 16:09
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Baronjutter posted:If short-sighted idiot voters weren't an issue, what's the best thing government could do right now? Anything super drastic would hurt a lot of people and 'the economy' but clearly this whole bubble is just a ridiculous hot potato people just hope the next generation will have to deal with. Would there be a way to just slowly deflate prices to a reasonable norm and then keep the market there? Pretty much the best option would be detangle from the mess by forcing banks to do more aggressive risk assessments when it comes to risky loans and also removing moral hazard from the system by avoiding the whole US-esque government backing private sector mortgage loans/insurance. Another big more challenging thing would be to remove subsidies for homeownership and instead focus on encouraging renting/adequate rental supply. For  from a conservative thinktank about home ownership being a good thing:http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/08/the-presidents-worrisome-narrative-to-discourage-homeownership etalian fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 20:48
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Fine-able Offense posted:-Cut off the banks' access to sweet sweet CMHC gravy, and force them to actually insure their own portfolios. In the scheme of things any sort of sane housing policy would focus on rental affordability not appreciation instead of the current model which is already at the American casino phase.
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Oct 16, 2013 22:22
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Throatwarbler posted:Haha saved as vancouver.jpg What a steal for studio size living space: 
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Oct 17, 2013 05:47
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Kafka Esq. posted:The state of the bubble is a bit of a mystery to me right now. Are there any blogs taking full stock of the whole picture? I can only find stuff on Vancouver and Toronto. The Royal Bank of Canada releases reports every few months which have comprehensive stats for all the main markets.
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Oct 17, 2013 14:36
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Majuju posted:TAC is just up the street from The Beasley (I saw them both as I was walking to my barber shop the other day, and nearly barfed on the sidewalk a few times). I guess the Beasley plaque  is how he was a advocate for New Urbanism/affordable urban housing for everyone?His then name then gets invoked by another real estate bandit company that's helping to make Vancouver the opposite of his vision.
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Oct 18, 2013 16:38
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