TG As An Industry - Past, Present, Future - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG As An Industry - Past, Present, Future

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Luebbi posted:

I sometimes wonder what would happen if some project fails because the needed investment was miscalculated, and they start another kickstarter to get the project finished. Would that be possible? And would people fund it?

They were considering this for the OSR trainwreck Dwimmermount.

And the more recent Pathfinder Online kickstarter was basically, "Yo Pathfinder peeps! Give Ryan Dancey a million more dollars for that thing you already kickstarted!"

# ¿ Apr 20, 2013 14:53

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 12:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

jivjov posted:

Y'know what, I'm just dropping this here. It's obvious that nobody here actually wants to have a civil discussion on the topic. Its all insane ad hominem all the way down. I really wanted to try to hash something out here, maybe talk about the importance of being open and up front with your backers, or perhaps organizing a campaign to convince Kickstarter to improve their survey utilities so project creators wouldn't have to risk alienating those who don't want to use third party sites.

Instead I get called "mewling child", "whiny and entitled", "stupid", and "dumb rear end in a top hat" among other things. Have a good night goons. If anyone cares, I'll let you know what Kickstarter decides on the issue when they get back to me.

You forgot "sperglord."

Seriously, I'd want to remove you as a customer, too. What's your end goal, other than to block them from using a tool to expedite this complex process and force them into ks's own lovely and labor intensive tools?

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 16:21

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Fair 'nuff. I wanted to bring this post over to this thread because of the whole, "is kickstarter a store?" debate. Here's Fred's thoughts... I think he makes a good point...

From here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evilhat/fate-core/posts/489112#comments

The discussion was about labeling international shipments as "gifts" to avoid customs fees.

quote:

If these are "gifts", then no one should be expecting to receive anything. There should be no outrage if folks do not receive goods of equivalent market value for their own "gift" of money. Do you see how that scenario would play out?
If these are "gifts", then there should be no expectation of receiving anything at all, in fact. That's observably not the case. We're open to fraud claims by backers if we do not fulfill our commitments as described in the selected tiers. Those constitute a contract of sale. A sale is occurring here.

If, in my home state of Maryland, someone walked up to Evil Hat and gave us $10,000, and then we gave that person a $10,000 car, and then told the state that no sale occurred and therefore we didn't need to pay a sales tax, because we were just giving each other gifts, they would laugh personably, clap us on the shoulder, and then introduce us to a happy fun gift palace commonly referred to as "jail".
So let's put the absurd objections to the idea that kickstarter rewards are somehow gifts aside. That simply doesn't pass muster, no matter what kind of line of crap folks have been feeding other folks about that situation. The only way that's a gift scenario is if the money being given is wildly out of proportion from the fair market value of the received good -- either we're giving you something of immense value for your no-dollars, or we're giving you something of token value for your immense dollar contribution (the latter is what public radio typically does in their fundraising drives).

If there is a gift component here for our backers, it's the PDFs. But those aren't what's getting shipped in the box.

If there is a gift component here for our international backers, it's the fact that shipping is only charged at the $15 level when in fact it's likely to be quite a lot higher than that. And remember, with over a thousand international shipments just in *this* batch, each dollar over is an additional $1000 expense that Evil Hat is taking on itself in order to keep those shipping costs where we committed for them to be.

Now, let's talk about how our third party shipping service is going to mark things.
As to *legal* customs marking on the packages, so long as regulations permit our shipper to list the contents of the package truthfully as books, we will certainly mark the package as containing books. I'll make sure that's in the notes to them.
Those are the sorts of regulations that get watched very closely. All of these are. We intend to act appropriately within the scope of the law. Because we intend to stay in business, not jail.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 16:59

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Just got my Fate Dice backerkit link. Holy poo poo was that smooth and easy. It recognized my extra money, I easily picked out my dice, and I have a link to manage my pledge. Just awesome.

I don't know why every somewhat complicated kickstarter doesn't use it.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2013 20:45

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Krabkolash posted:

https://twitter.com/fredhicks/status/352541507183587328

If you don't want to click on the link to his twitter I guess

Guess it is pretty clear that kickstarter really needs to work on their options for that sort of thing. Sounds like Backerit is really working out for Evil Hat though. I suspect we'll see more and more big kickstarters going with it after hearing that.

I don't doubt it. I'm strongly considering pitching in for a third set of dice. I've been hemming and hawing about which two I want, and changed it once in the system already(another step that would have been crazy-annoying if Fred were doing this manually).

But can I justify spending $50 on dice I may never use? That's where I am.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 23:12

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Rulebook Heavily posted:

Now, let's explore this game in the specific. Its entire premise is that a group of players will sit down and get into the mindsets of a) a soon-to-be rape victim, b) an ancient intelligent psychicically dominating sword, and c) a thief who is a serial rapist. Two of the players are intended to gang up on and play out the violent rape of the third player, who is only allowed to make suggestions as to how their character is raped during that act.

Yeah, I read that description and it didn't parse until now. But holy poo poo does that sound both horrible and awkward. Every time something like this or boob-girl prestige classes comes up, I immediately wonder... Who would sit down to play this poo poo? Like a bunch of guys with howling wolf shirts sit in mom's basement and pretend to be a magic rapist sword while munching on cheetos? How do you even pitch this to your friends? "Hey guys, there's this awesome sword game where the sword is a rapist. Want to play with me?"

# ¿ Aug 6, 2013 04:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Rulebook Heavily posted:

One of the absolute most difficult and problematic aspects of writing satire is that good satire can get too close to what it's satirizing. Rather than poking fun, it becomes just another example of what it's trying to satirize. Bad satire just wallows in it.

One of the most notable instances of this is the world's most beloved adventure story, Gulliver's Travels. It's a satirical parody of the colonialist tropes of its contemporary adventure fiction, but it was such a good example of it that it's become the defining work of its genre.

Ahhh, Tenacious D. A parody of a rock album that was itself an incredible rock album.

Also, you should examine your life choices if you're backing this.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2013 12:54

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Plague of Hats posted:

Maybe, but with the way RPG illustrators are it's not that unbelievable a story.

Am I the only one who remembers when a 3e Dragon Magazine went to print with a funny looking sword that was actually a cleverly disguised vagina?

(WotC edited out the fleshy background which was needed for the effect. You'll have to imagine that part, or look at a paper copy of the magazine.)

There's even a rather funny ENWorld thread where folks from WotC and Paizo chime in and say, "yep, that's a vagina. I saw it, and my wife saw it too."

e: vvvvvvvv yep, that's the original!

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Aug 16, 2013

# ¿ Aug 16, 2013 15:21

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Flavivirus posted:

If I wanted to get a copy of Paranoia for the local RPG society library, which edition would I be best off buying? It looks like they recently brought out new books but split them into Troubleshooters and High Programmers, and then you have anniversary editions and old editions too. I'm just looking for a book new roleplayers can pick up to learn how to play Paranoia.

I like xp. Easy enough rules, lots of advice, and one of the best Paranoia adventures I've ever run.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2013 16:16

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

papasyhotcakes posted:

I have already asked this in the " FATAL and friends thread" but seeing as it is related: where can I get Paranoia: troubleshooters book, either in print or pdf? I have been searching the web but the only results have been old editions at outrageous prices and the High Programmer book that Mongoose sells in its website (someone helpfully pasted a link to an UK vendor but sadly I do not live there)

Other than :filez:

, I haven't the slightest.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2013 05:26

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

More class from defiance on their fb page, under their "open letter"

What is with this scolding thing they seem to like to use. Both the open letter and "you should be more considerate" bullshit

# ¿ Jan 24, 2014 05:08

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Oh these guys. Now I have no idea what an RPG Brain Trust is, but this is more class.

It's amazing how much poo poo Defiance is getting on their own facebook page - where one would expect their fans to be in abundance.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2014 16:51

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

moths posted:

Worse than that is the advertising image of some 1980s grandpa with kids that are loving thrilled to watch the train go in circles with him.

It's the cruelest lie. Your grandkids find no joy in your hobby, either.

I dunno, it's holding up for my dad's model train set. We loved them when we were kids, and my kids love them now.

They'll grow out of it eventually, but my 4 year old thinks they're the coolest thing.

# ¿ May 7, 2014 15:59

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

ProfessorCirno posted:

Paizo is a company that I really like, it's just that their main product is something that I really hate.

I've looked into buying their flip mats. They look quality.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 15:34

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Captain Foo posted:

It's obviously happened for very valid reasons, but it's amazing to see the mindset inversion w/r/t paizo and wotc around here.

Pathfinder is an awful game and I wish it would go away or improve rather than pollute the expectations of new gamers.

Paizo is often groggy and awful, and their attachment to cheesecake art is terrible, but they're clearly good at LGBT issues.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 19:44

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

One of my most satisfying campaigns of all time was CoC d20, heavily modified. The GM advice in it is spot on.

Even put together a little rules doc for it.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9qwm-rNX9YESHlPeUh6THFLV0k/edit?usp=docslist_api

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 17:30

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Night10194 posted:

"My minority friends said it was okay!"

Well, Cook's now on my 'never buy from' list.

He was already there on account of being a lovely designer who loves wizards a bit too much.

Randomly, he's the reason there's no 2-handed hammers in 3.x.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 21:18

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Evil Mastermind posted:

Wait, what?

For real. I wish I had the link, but someone asked him about it, and he basically said he didn't like the style.

It may have been regarding its inclusion or exclusion (don't remember) in Arcana Unearthed, which I was like a superfan of back in the early Aughts.

Sadly I can't find it on Google.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 20, 2015

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 23:34

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Halloween Jack posted:

Speaking of indigenous populations in gaming, Varg Vikernes finally self-published MYFAROG, his D&D heartbreaker "based on European values, geography, (pre-) history, mythology, traditions and morals, and will offer you the opportunity to play a game in accordance with your own European nature."

That is all.

You see, apart from the racist and 'moral' trash, this sort of thing is totally my poo poo, but I'm not giving the dude money to mine it for the not-awful bits.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 15:26

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

moths posted:

He's going to completely ignore that black people lived in Medieval Europe, isn't he?

No, every RPG needs a race of bad guys you can slaughter with impunity. :v:

# ¿ Mar 21, 2015 15:53

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Tatum Girlparts posted:

So basically you either remind people of how poo poo the world can be because ha gently caress em right, or you do it so people can have a power fantasy over being the badass lady/minority/whatever who breaks barriers. Most games do the first, and that's not cool.

What sucks is how often dudes doing the first like to pretend it's really the second. "The -4 strength is your struggle! Overcome your female weakness and show how badass you are despite being a girl!"

# ¿ Mar 23, 2015 01:08

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Evil Mastermind posted:

So Pence went ahead and signed the law, and already national businesses are leaving the state and warning others to do the same.

My brother is a VP at Salesforce over in Indy. I'll grill him about this when I see him this weekend. Wonder if he'll have to relocate... Hope not.

Folks are screaming about how Illinois has the same law, while overlooking how it also has laws protecting LGBT folks from discrimination. Laws Indiana happens to lack.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2015 19:33

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Leperflesh posted:

I wonder how long a "Muslims only," no Christians allowed business would survive, before someone burned it down.

They could sue and win, iirc, because Indiana protects people from discrimination based on religion. And on most other things except gayness, FUNNY COINCIDENCE THAT.

e: This is for employment anyway. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/indiana-employment-discrimination-31981.html

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Mar 26, 2015

# ¿ Mar 26, 2015 20:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

whydirt posted:

Oh yeah, I'm not trying to imply that it's okay that Indiana passed this law because other states have it too or that people shouldn't be upset. It's a lovely law, and there is a practical difference between actively passing a law versus keeping an existing one in terms of optics. Indiana passing this looks and feels worse in the face of protest than it would if it had just been the status quo.

It has to be looked at in the overall legislative context. Since Indiana has no anti-discrimination laws protecting LGBT, there's no comparison.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2015 15:55

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Imagined posted:

The cultural momentum on this issue has changed substantially in just the last few years. There was a big uproar last year when Arizona tried to pass a similar law. Also, some of these states also have laws specifically preventing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

That's because it's turned from a law protecting native peyote ceremonies from drug prosecution, and the Amish from modern regulations; to a bludgeon for the religious right.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2015 16:15

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Everybody celebrate.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2580-Sean-K-Reynolds-just-rehired-by-WotC

# ¿ May 5, 2015 03:30

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

ProfessorCirno posted:

Cook was absolutely pushed out by Mearls.

I dunno if I buy that. I'm still pretty sure it was a dust-up about OGL (and how 5e won't have one.)

# ¿ May 6, 2015 01:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Plague of Hats posted:

Those goddamn maps, though. Still some of the coolest looking fantasy maps ever.

Oh goodness yes. I'm a map nerd and a Tolkien nerd, and these hit all the buttons.

Have you seen what all those maps make when you put them together?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9qwm-rNX9YEX0hUYkZDdzY1Tjg/edit?usp=docslist_api

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 04:32

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Evil Mastermind posted:

Sandy Petersen gave a very frank interview about the changes at Chaosium, with a lot more information about why this is all happening than we normally get in these situations.

Wow, yeah, such a contrast with how close to the vest most companies play this sort of thing. Clear details about the takeover, etc. Glad I listened.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2015 18:27

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

So among the free adventures, awesome DM screens, and other teasers on Free RPG Day, one company was curiously absent.

Any idea why WotC decided to sit this one out? Especially with a new edition this year? And was it a dumb move? Or a savvy one, deciding they didn't need the publicity.

Frankly, it kinda looks like WotC has been making GBS threads the bed for a while. No conversion guide, no license, no pdfs, skeleton crew with all products farmed out to third parties... And yet 5e seems, by the numbers, to be quite successful. What is going on out there?

# ¿ Jun 22, 2015 21:49

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Siivola posted:

I would not mind reading a MERP F&F. Hint, hint.

"The maps are badass and are arguably the prettiest RPG cartography ever. Also it plays nothing like Lord of the Rings reads. The end."

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:48

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

gradenko_2000 posted:

So I guess the question is, what would a DRM-enabled PDF alternative even look like?

I'm guessing you're too young to remember it, but the earliest books sold by DTRPG/RPGNow actually used DRM. Acrobat supports it, and yeah, it's a huge pain in the rear end.

Everyone switched to watermarks for a reason. It was big news when they switched.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2015 17:34

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Bucnasti posted:

As a friend of mine likes to say, "WotC has the very best software developers you can get for 40k/yr."

They were, iirc, all Microsoft rejects, being in the same physical neighborhood.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2015 04:03

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Slimnoid posted:

Is 5e even selling that well? Because this seems like either a desperation move for attention, or them dumping it out there because it's not worth making official content for.

Well, in fairness, the timing fits in with the "Dude was on Jury Duty" line they've been giving us for the past year.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2016 22:37

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I dunno, guys. Since it's clear WotC really isn't in the 'writing and selling books' business these days, I think this is a substantially different situation than we saw under 3.x and 4e. It's not really creating your own competition if you're not actually competing.

Let fans create most of the content and collect royalties where possible, and use player reviews to lift the best content to the top, giving it a quasi-'official' status. Then do big releases a few times a year, with a lot of buzz around them ... and that actually doesn't sound like a terrible strategy to me for a smaller-scale operation like D&D is, now. Remember - PF was only 'needed' when WotC cancelled 3.5. In order to see a 5finder, they'd need to move away from 5e in the first place, and I think PF is a lot more likely to jump to a 2e before that would happen.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 19:40

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Alien Rope Burn posted:

If they don't have the manpower to do something as basic as regularly publish books, where are they going to find the time and bodies to review, edit, and promote other books?

Same place they are now - by contracted outsourcing to other companies, like Green Ronin and Kobold Press.

I don't think WotC has actually written anything more in-depth than the occasional article since the PHB.

e: I think I misunderstood. They're relying on peer reviews, basically.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2016 20:21

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Misandu posted:

From the PF players I know, there are basically three types of PF player;

1.) The ones who like it because it's the "3rdiest 3rd that ever 3rded a 3rd". These people definitely exist and they just want as many obscure splash books as humanly possible, or they felt personally betrayed by Wizards putting out 4e for some reason. These people are probably never coming back. This is the group of people who shouted about how 4e wasn't "real D&D."

2.) The ones who just don't want to learn new rules, or are super used to ignoring most of the rules. I know a bunch of people who just weren't interested in learning 4e D&D because they thought it was too different, or they tried it once and didn't have a good time. These people love 5e because it's different enough from PF to justify buying new stuff, but not so different that they have to bother learning new rules. These are the people who love to tell you crazy stories about cool things their characters did that could have happened in any system because they had nothing to do with any of the rules anyway.

3.) The ones who are new to RPGs, and got told by someone from group 1 or 2 to play PF. I have actually seen a TON of these people embrace 5e because the books are gorgeous.

Groups 2 and 3 are the bigger groups by far, but group 1 is the loudest.

Keep in mind, too, that the folks who stuck with 3.x/PF may have been doing that, now, for 16 years or so. Many of those folks are getting older and/or fed up with the ever-growing complexity of the game and/or actually looking for something new. For those folks, 5e presents a real alternative that still 'feels' like their D&D (since it's basically the same d20 chassis) while also being - intentionally - substantially simpler. Even some of that first group is getting tired of excessive crunch, I'd say.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2016 22:56

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

The Crotch posted:

She's apparently an important enough character in the Pathfinder universe that she's been drawn by other, more competent artists.

I'm the giant Zladizlaw Beksinski skull-tower looming in the background.

Did you say more competent?

I hate almost everything about this picture.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2016 17:20

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Cynic Jester posted:

Which just makes the mechanical superiority of spiked chain hard to wrap you head around. Spiked chains are one of the best, if not the best, weapon for doing difficult and fancy maneuvers in D&D 3.5.

They are phenomenal in 4e as well, with a single feat. Not the best for every class, but incredibly strong because they could poach Light Blade support.

One of my favorite (but little-played

) characters from 4e was a half-orc spiked-chain-wielding Thief.

JackMann posted:

Y'know, I'm actually okay with spiked chains and dire flails. Yes, they'd be dumb as all heck in real life, but impractical weapons are a staple of fantasy. Hell, give fighters more cool-dumb weapons. Giant swords and hammers. Knife-whips. Mother-lovin' swordchucks. And give them cool mechanical benefits. I'm all about giving fighters more cool stuff to do besides "I swing my weapon. I hit. I do some damage."

The problem isn't that you can use a spiked chain effectively, it's that the same can't be said of a longsword or a mace.

I think D&D could do a lot worse than poaching weapons from The Blood of Heroes.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2016 17:34

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 12:06

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

I have fond memories of both Torg (though I'd never play it again) and Star Wars d6 (just getting into the Re-Up version now!)

Looking back at Star Wars d6, it's weird how much stuff an RPG company could get away with in the 80's and 90's. They basically invented the foundations of the EU 'canon' that was recently (and blessedly) wiped clean by Disney.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2016 16:24

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