terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

my programming experience includes pascal in highschool, then some java and c++ in college before i decided there was no way i could write code for 10 hours a day and not kill myself so i switched from a CS major to an IT major and never looked back

no programming questions, sorry op

cool, you traded a dumpster for the outhouse

# ¿ May 7, 2013 20:50

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 10:24

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Optimus_Rhyme posted:

The last four months of my life have been spent in the pursuit of getting to know myself better. It all started about seven months ago when I was working at a job I didn't hate but I wasn't happy at. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why I felt the way I did so when a friend came to me with a job that offered twice what I was making and the opportunity to work on open source software I jumped at the chance. This is what I learned:

I am a bad software developer.

I walked away from that awesome gig after three months. It was a contract-to-hire situation and I got wind of some sort of internal political struggle at the company that I wasn't invested in battling. I wasn't any happier and I still wasn't unhappy. I just didn't find anything particularly challenging or interesting anymore. So I decided to take some time off and get it together.

I planned my sabbatical carefully so as to not risk my family's financial outlook. I had paid off my debts and had enough money to take 4-5 months off of work. I created the cash-flow spreadsheet, budget, and came up with a plan to take two months off completely, one month to interview, and the fourth month would be a buffer in case interviewing would take longer than I had anticipated.

I am now in the buffer zone and have interviewed with close to ten companies to date. I have not been offered a single job and have not made it past the technical interview in most cases. I am a programmer. Until recently I had believed I was a good programmer. However in an industry where hiring practices have adjusted to filter out the plethora of bad, unqualified candidates I've found it rather difficult to consider myself a good programmer any longer.

When I started expressing my anxieties to my friends and colleagues (most of whom I consider more experienced and intelligent than myself) they assured me that I was reducing the problem to terms that were far too simple to express the complicated reality I found myself in. These are people who have personally reviewed my code, hired me for previous jobs, and have a good idea of what it was like working with me. They had nothing bad to say about my work history, the quality of my work, or my skills as a programmer. I wasn't a bad developer, they would say, I was perhaps just bad at interviews.

If I was only faced with a handful of rejections I might have believed them. However I have received nothing but rejections so far. And only twice have I made it past the first technical interview. If I had at least one or two offers I might believe them but can the system be so wrong as to consistently overlook a good developer even if they are bad at interviews? Conversely isn't it possible that the system does work well and I am a bad developer being kept from taking good jobs away from qualified candidates?

For the record I'm not one of those people who complains that they're not good at something and does nothing about it. I practice code-kata every day before I get down to work. I have a few solutions to some problems on Rosetta Code in exotic languages just for fun. I contribute to open source software regularly. And I've even tried practicing speaking to people and learning how to sell myself better in conversation. The latter I find most challenging as I find it rather difficult to relate to people until I've been around them for a while. The moral of the story here is that you don't get anywhere unless you try.

The problem is that I'm not getting anywhere and it's wearing me down. This is the last month that I can afford to pay the rent and bills without going back into debt and I still don't have any offers on the table. I wanted to move my family out of this rented apartment in an aging condo and into a house with a yard. But it seems like I won't be able to work in this industry again. And I'm afraid that I don't know how to do anything else.

So what does a bad developer look like?

Well my bookshelf is stocked with the classics: SICP, On Lisp, TAOCP, Expert C Programming, Effective C++, and textbooks on algorithms, distributed computing, security, graphics, and maths of various branches. I've read most of them (I'm still digesting TAOCP a chunk at a time). I also frequently read papers and magazines from the likes of the ACM, IEEE, and various PhD's. If you were to judge me just by my reading list you'd think I was university-trained but I'm not. I just like programming and want to know everything that I can.

I contribute to a plethora of open source projects in a range of languages such as C++, Perl, Python, and even various Lisp-like languages. Some of these projects are bits of software that I've used that don't have the functionality I required, were new projects that needed developers to fix bugs or add missing features, or were otherwise ideas for libraries or applications I've found myself needing.

I'm concerned with improving my craft. As I mentioned previously I practice code-kata. At many organizations I've worked at I championed automated testing. I read plenty of books, papers, and articles. I write and try to teach others what I know.

I enjoy mathematics. After reading all that I could about information theory after coming across Shannon Entropy I started delving into Order theory. I really like joint semi-lattices, sets, relational algebra, sentential databases. I don't remember the particulars but I know that for every recursive form there is an iterative solution. If I need to know I have my journals and text books.

And for all of this I still blunder my way through an exercise to write a function which returns a boolean in response to the question of whether sequence A is a sub-sequence of sequence B. I still draw a blank when asked what the magnitude of complexity is for the guests function I just wrote (damnit, of course calculating the permutations of a list is n-squared, but this is an interrogation of the random trivia I can manage to recall and I feel like a deer in the headlights). Any shred of confidence I had has been beaten out of me with every mistake, blunder, and rejection.

At the end of my journey I find that I am depressed, desperate, and fear that I will let my family down. My daughter is going to ask me what I do for a living some day and I will have to bite my lip and tell her that I program computers. And I will have to dodge her probing questions as she gets older and avoid telling her that I do whatever I can to put food on the table. I never achieved much and there's nothing I have done that I'm especially proud of. I just got by as best I could even when the world decided I wasn't good enough anymore.

I am a bad software developer and this is my life.

shut the gently caress up

# ¿ May 7, 2013 22:00

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

gucci void main posted:

poo poo

lol, you live a charmed life and were handed a golden opportunity and you whine and you're going to piss it away

lolllll

# ¿ May 8, 2013 01:43

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

BONGHITZ posted:

rise of the gently caress machines

it's me, i'm the rising gently caress machine in the op

# ¿ May 8, 2013 01:46

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

nuke me from orbit

# ¿ May 8, 2013 01:46

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

gucci void main posted:

yep

i think it doesn't help that when i get home i don't want to look at a single line of ruby but i don't want to touch anything else either, or rather nothing that i can't use with a static analyzer

i was born in to utter poverty and grew up with seven other children in the woods in a 1100 square foot house and was on welfare all my life, and couldn't afford to go to college or finish high school

i hate you, you can't even recognize that you're blessed and want to piss away things most people dream of

# ¿ May 8, 2013 03:42

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

gucci void main posted:

i get that i was lucky to be offered it, but i'm not really capable of doing the job as it is and i'm not getting any help. the team is composed of a number of contractors/offshores who can't speak english all that well. it was pretty clear that the employment was/is at-will so i could get shitcanned any time; i just didn't expect to get virtually no assistance whatsoever beyond the first week. the code bases are bad. no one knows what documentation is, and ruby being a language where terseness and abstraction are everywhere, this makes things a nightmare if you didn't write the code yourself. other projects are done in clojure which i'll never touch.

i'm depressed for a few reasons, but mostly because the job isn't very rewarding and the environment isn't making things any easier.

i work at the fifth largest insurance company in the country and my project is a database application that bills $7.8 billion a year

it's exactly what you describe

shut the gently caress up and just do what they tell you to do, who gives a poo poo if it all fits together

# ¿ May 8, 2013 04:06

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

chumpchous posted:

people who care about workflows

yeah, this isn't going to work

# ¿ May 8, 2013 04:12

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

PleasingFungus posted:

That's not what 'pass-by-reference' means.

When a function is 'pass-by-reference', the arguments are passed as pointers ('references') to the actual values, rather than the values proper. This means that you can modify the arguments (by dereferencing the pointer), which can be good or bad. It also means that you don't have to copy the values from one space in memory to another, which is important when dealing with large variables (arrays, big objects, etc).

In C and similar languages, you can actually work with pointers, so you can make the decision explicitly. (void foo(int a, int * b) - a is passed by value, b is passed as a pointer.) Java doesn't have user-defined pointers, so the language has to make the decision for you. The decision they made for primitives (ints, bools, etc) was 'pass-by-value'. In "int a = 1; foo(a); print(a)", the result printed will always be '1', no matter what happens in foo(). This is the primary appeal of pass-by-value: you can guarantee that variables passed as function arguments remain unchanged when you return to your own scope. It's a reasonable default.

Java objects, on the other hand, are passed by reference: if you pass in an object to a function & modify it therein, you can retrieve the modified value from the calling function. That means it's possible to 'simulate' pointers in Java by using objects. E.g. "class IntPointer { int containedInt; } IntPointer a = new IntPointer(); foo(a); print(a.containedInt) - the result could be anything! This is of course clunky & overly verbose, but if you like Java, that is probably right up your alley!

The (primary) reason that Java doesn't have pointers is that pointers let you freely tinker with memory. Unlike C, Java's memory is managed - instead of the programmer having to handle memory allocation & deallocation, it's abstracted into an operation of the JVM. That means, as another consequence, that the programmer can't be allowed to tinker with memory freely, because that would break the abstraction that lets Java's memory management works.

^^ This paragraph is the actual answer you were looking for, feel free to skip the rest.

*java objects are actually pointers with a very constrained set of operations that can be performed on them.

you stupid loving oval office

why would you do this

why

# ¿ May 8, 2013 04:17

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

PleasingFungus posted:

my grandpa died last night

owned

PleasingFungus posted:

e: haha, it looks like I was responding to tori there

double owned

# ¿ May 8, 2013 04:20

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

The Management posted:

A pointer is just an address of some memory. Memory is what you make if it. I hope that makes it clear.

Thanks for the memory.

# ¿ May 8, 2013 12:40

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

poemdexter posted:

I left industry about a year ago because i was tired of crystal reports and db query writing. Now I'm in consulting doing crystal reports and db query writing. I sit in my driveway when I get home wondering if I should go inside or just hit the road and drive off a bridge so my wife and child can live off my life insurance for a few decades until she finds a husband that isn't a terrible husk of a human being with no purpose but to fix some reports that no one is going to see except some middle manager in the middle of nowhere. They probably won't even save the PDF after viewing.

finally, a thread for me.

lol owned

# ¿ May 8, 2013 21:54

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

uG posted:

by using an ORM and/or SQL abstraction to skip the whole learning sql poo poo

sql is simple as poo poo and those other things are hilarious because of how they complicate poo poo

# ¿ May 8, 2013 22:24

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Cold on a Cob posted:

i, unlike the esteemed mr. shaggar, do not immediately discount orms but they're only really good for crud stuff and won't help you with performance bottlenecks, indexing strategies, proper 3nf table design, etc

i've used orms but i don't believe code-first works very well at all

shaggar is right

the one I'm most familkiar with (Cognos) just converts everything to really lovely bad sql anyway

my favorite one so far started "SELECT ((((((("

# ¿ May 8, 2013 22:26

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Cold on a Cob posted:

tbf (i hear) cognos is the worst of the worst but yeah i've seen some pretty hilarious queries from nhibernate

the output is nice, but boy god is it a piece of poo poo to work with (my job is to work with it)

# ¿ May 8, 2013 22:37

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

ur a join

# ¿ May 8, 2013 22:40

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Fuzzy Mammal posted:

ok the answer is

1) diff_sec is a float so it can evaluate to nonzero path but still round to zero in the cast and kaboom
2) jerkiness is a measure of differences in frame intervals, while frame_count / time is a rate. Since 30fps ~= 33ms nobody noticed that the jerkiness value was measuring totally the wrong thing

3) who gives a gently caress

# ¿ May 9, 2013 00:40

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Moist von Lipwig posted:

drink your milk and eat your veggies

# ¿ May 9, 2013 12:00

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Nehacoo posted:

finally, my dreams have come true. 3 shitposts and im accepted in yospos

thanks obama

there are so many good posters here, it was a difficult decision to let you into the hallowed halls, good luck and god bless

# ¿ May 9, 2013 23:36

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

OBAMA BIN LinkedIn posted:

quantity of features doesn't make a language bad. c++ is actually very nice to use compared to any shitass p/e/l-lang.

Ur very nice to use

# ¿ May 10, 2013 11:57

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

gucci void main posted:

not that I can't afford it, but I hate the idea of trying to justify $70 for sublime text (not that you ever have to pay for it really)

lol poor

# ¿ May 10, 2013 13:32

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

these are all useful and important if you are going to be implementing data structures, but are they important to interview for a boring business applications job?

p.s. i have no idea what a k-d tree is and i am not ashamed to admit that

It's a fancy way to measure your Blops score. True gamers unite.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2014 00:05

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Shaggar posted:

just data-bind the class to an observable in your viewmodel and then update the observable when you want 2 change class.

actually, if I want to change class I just go visit Bahamut.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 02:40

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Werthog 95 posted:

so i'm trying to fix this javascript and i've never javascripted before

using the firefox debugger and it keeps breaking and offering no obvious reasoning as to why it broke. i have no breakpoints set so i assume it's an unhandled exception but i don't see any information about exceptions and i don't even know if javascript has exceptions

help

Javascript is completely unrelated to Java, which owns. haha.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 16:57

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Shaggar posted:

my current javascript status is I have to figure out cors.

I have until tomorrow to fix a disaster in PL/SQL which involves writing four new functions and changing a gigantic procedure. lol

# ¿ Jun 5, 2014 18:42

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

People who say taxes are lower in the US are probably full of poo poo too, I lose half my paycheck before I ever see it.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 16:38

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

AlsoD posted:

are you a millionaire?

Far from it, I make $65k and I bring home about $1350-$1400 every two weeks.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 17:58

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

AlsoD posted:

then that's why you're not seeing the tax breaks that people are talking about

lol

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 18:00

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

high 401k contribution or high insurance premiums or both? maybe pittsburgh has very high income tax

child support or alimony

irs or a creditor garnishing wages

there are lots of ways for net pay to be 50% of gross but i can't think of any that are worth complaining about

Girlfriend is on my health insurance and they tax the employer contribution as though it were cash income. I pay $1500+ in federal withholding a month.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 22:51

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

No wage garnishment, just taxes / insurance / 401k

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 22:54

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Valeyard posted:

income tax here is 40% if you earn over 31k iirc and its loving rediculous

I also pay another 10% in local taxes, dunno how they handle local taxes over there.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2014 23:03

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Deus Rex posted:

lol, not even close on a salary of $65k. more like 15-20%.

at $65k unless you calculated your withholdings unfavorably you should be netting somewhere around 2/3 of your gross earnings, even in a high tax state like CA.

I calculated according to IRS recommendations, I said why I get hosed up above (taxable health benefits).

# ¿ Jun 7, 2014 01:13

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

qntm posted:

i deal with ebcdic on a daily basis so this is basically how i relax

lol owned

# ¿ Jun 9, 2014 17:28

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Git? more like poo poo! lol

# ¿ Jun 10, 2014 20:28

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

large and bad

Mods?

# ¿ Jun 30, 2014 20:28

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

z0rlandi viSSer posted:

Yep. If I could make this money doing something other than IT i would leave IT immediately. I hate IT and it makes me unhappy.

but i like money

*fartz*

I like working in IT.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 02:06

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Then again I spend more time talking to the business people than to the IT people.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 02:06

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

fidel sarcastro posted:

the worst part of programming is programmers.

The programmers I work with are all really nice, top-notch people, but they're mostly in their 40s-50s and have had long enough to not be the shitheads they might have been in their twenties anymore.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 02:11

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 10:24

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

syntaxrigger posted:

just curious how many people who have this opinion of IT and programmers live in cali

I am from the lovely south and IT isn't so bad

then again my career is still young

Younger IT people/developers drive me up the wall and there's one DBA in particular I despise because he's a miserable piece of poo poo to interact with. Everyone else is great!

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 02:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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