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Quest For Glory II posted:That's not quite true. A lot of Nintendo fans are under the impression that Metroid is dead, F-Zero is dead, and Starfox is dead, based on lack of activity as well as things Nintendo has said (Nintendo has pretty much all but said F-Zero is dead dead dead dead). All that's guaranteed at this point are Mario, Kirby, and Zelda titles. It's me, I'm one of those Nintendo fanboys who hasn't looked twice at the Wii U. There's a lot of nitpicky reasons, but the big one I see as a problem is that for a company that runs on nostalgia, Nintendo's run out and isn't putting anything new in the bank. Zelda has gone from a must-play series to "It was okay, I guess" over the last decade. Metroid seems pretty dead. The Galaxy games were amazing, those are the big Wii standouts to me, but there doesn't seem to be any new 3d mario stuff forthcoming. NSMB was okay but not something where I'd ask for more of the same. Smash Bros was a huge part of my gaming life, but now that I'm older my friends and I don't really play local multiplayer, and if we did we have Melee and Brawl already. The new Smash looks cool but not anything I'm dying for. I guess my thesis here is that for a company that's been getting by on "It's that game you like, but more awesome now!", the latest entries in most of its series have been sidegrades or steps backwards, which doesn't make me excited for their future. There's also a clear lack of direction and vision. They threw everything away, releasing an underpowered, SD system to get their motion control idea out there, and then didn't know what the hell to do with it. In almost every great Wii game, the motion controls are incidental at best or an active hindrance. It was basically "Sell insane amounts of Wiis by wowing people with Wii Sports and then figure out the rest later". And now it seems like they're bailing on their "So simple, you just need a remote" control system by inexplicably focusing on a tablet controller. It feels like now if you buy a Nintendo system you're paying a hundreds of dollars for an inferior product so the top Nintendo guys can try out their wacky new idea that they haven't thought through all the way. It doesn't help that this feels uncomfortably like they're chasing that "Imagine if you had a screen in your hand!" pipedream that they inexplicably thought was going to revolutionize console gaming back in... 2002? 2003? I just remember one E3 being so disappointed that Nintendo's killer app was Pac Man with a GBA connector, and here we are ten years later and they've built an entire console around it. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Aug 29, 2013 |
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Aug 29, 2013 22:45
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fivegears4reverse posted:Good product branding and advertisement alleviates this kind of poo poo from happening on a larger scale. There's a reason why even people with regular access to the internet and are gamers acted surprised and counfused about the existence of the Wii U at launch, and it's not always to be "hilarious" on some paid-for comedy forum. As I posted earlier, I was a Nintendo Guy, camped out for a Wii on launch night, regularly play all the retro titles that nostalgic manchildren are sworn to replay, and still play a lot of games, mostly on PC. My brother grew up playing the same games I did and plays a lot of PC games now. Neither of us knew that Wii U was an entire new console until a few weeks ago when I read this and the other Wii U thread and told him about some of the stuff I read here. It's a real problem.
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Aug 29, 2013 23:05
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It was totally awesome for Wii Sports but very janky and not well implemented elsewhere. After years they finetuned a better version that could kind of do what they originally intended it to do, and released a few games that took advantage of it. Then they made a hard right turn to a tablet interface. It's stupid to seemingly abandon development of the motion controls, it's both a waste of the time and effort they spent finetuning it and aggravating to Wii early adopters who hung in there through the growing pains, not to mention alienating the entire base of casual players who hopped onto the fun waggle bandwagon. No one said "Hey this fake-tennis is pretty fun, but imagine if it was a tablet instead?" Like you're jumping niches with no connection at all in between, it seems like they thought people who were enthusiastic about the product itself would somehow become blindly loyal to the Wii brand. I mean I have my issues with the motion controls, games on the Wii that I loved like Mario Galaxy and DKC Returns were great in spite of them, but the solution isn't "Use a tablet instead". Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Aug 30, 2013 |
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Aug 30, 2013 03:26
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Barudak posted:I think this is also a big reason why the tablet isn't an appealing add-on for the console; it is an experience the target market for the WiiU is already familiar with and owns. The big huge advantage of the Wii was that its core control was simple and new to the audience and had a perfect price point. If Nintendo wanted to replicate that they should have done something standout different (I have no idea, Oculus Rift? Illumiroom?) and budgeted it to match. This is an important distinction that many nintendo fans, myself included, missed at the time. Moms and grandmas weren't becoming Nintendo fans, they were becoming Wii fans. They wanted to do tennis and bowling and yoga, not play a new console with motion controls. They aren't looking to buy the next Wii because normal people don't do that with their appliances. No one says "I really like my toaster, I can't wait to buy the next one!" The situation is made worse by the fact that the Wii U is so separated from what originally made the Wii work. To take the metaphor further, no one says "I really like my toaster, I can't wait to buy the new one that also acts as a soap dispenser!"
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Sep 3, 2013 18:44
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Spiffo posted:It's not the only factor, but it's still a factor. I mean, you can at least see the logic of "I didn't like the last game they did, maybe I'll hold off on the next one." Yeah, Thousand Year Door is one of my favorite games ever, but after playing Super Paper Mario I haven't given the series a second thought. And more importantly, it adds up on a console-wide scale. If Other M, Skyward Sword, and Super Paper Mario weren't so disappointing, I would probably own a Wii U by now.
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Sep 4, 2013 00:56
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Quest For Glory II posted:Since the 3DS is working exactly to the former, it's clear they've still got the ability to dominate in whatever sized market they create for themselves. So even when the Gamecube 'failed', for example, they still sell a shitload of their own software because the near entirety of their install base is in their exact, specific demographic range. (So even with a tiny tiny install base, NSMBU has still sold 2.2 million units, according to Wiki, with only 3.6 million Wii Us sold to date.) Yeah, I mean it's great to dominate the industry, but this isn't the olympics, coming in second or third can still be great. The N64 and Gamecube lost marketshare but they still made a lot of money, which is the company's goal.
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Sep 4, 2013 20:31
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OatmealRaisin posted:He's kind of an idiot. Nobody who plays on phones is looking for that full-fledged hardcore game. Oh, if only Nintendo would swoop in and save the day with Mario Kart iOS for $20! Well it's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. People buy handhelds for full fledged games because you know you aren't going to find a quality full length game on the phone market. But how many people who play pokemon own a smartphone? I don't see Mario Kart being feasible, but you can't tell me that pokemon or animal crossing wouldn't work. Whether it's economically better is a different argument. But it's entirely possible to move full fledged games on phone marketplaces, the biggest barrier is the stigma that phone games are cheap knockoffs instead of real games. You erase that stigma by releasing real games. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 02:41
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Astro7x posted:Putting Pokemon on a smart phone is a wrong business move for so many reasons... that would take away so many handheld sales. Cmon dude it was a two paragraph post and in the next paragraph I specifically said whether it was a smart overall business move is a different argument. I was addressing the notion that real games could work on a phone and people would buy them.
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Sep 5, 2013 04:49
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Maybe I'm projecting my personal feelings on the marketplace, but is there a chance we're at peak saturation of some of these beloved IP's? Especially when the technical gap between consoles is less obvious than, say, SNES to N64 or N64 to GCN. I look at the list of upcoming titles and it's like, am I really craving another Mario platformer, another Mario Kart, another Wii Fit, etc? They seem like nice luxuries but I don't see anyone who hasn't bought a Wii U yet hopping onboard because now they can finally play another drat Mario Kart.
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Sep 5, 2013 21:36
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Yeah I mean I'm all for updating series without necessarily reinventing the wheel, I just thought that people buy their consoles for more unique titles, and Maddens or Mario Karts are nice additions to the library but not system sellers. I guess I'm wrong but I'd be interested to see some analysis on that subject.
Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Sep 5, 2013 |
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Sep 5, 2013 21:54
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I will say that companies have a vested interest in getting their customers to hop onboard with digital distribution, and they realize that shutting down their servers and wiping out people's access to games that they paid for would greatly hurt those efforts. You can  all you want but it is extremely unlikely that your digital copies of Xbox 360 games will vanish into the ether until we are long past the point where you can download them from Supertorrent in minutes and play them on your Spacephone.
Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Sep 6, 2013 |
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Sep 6, 2013 03:34
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The problem with Wind Waker was that Nintendo completely hosed up the delivery (big surprise). They pretty much sold the GameCube on that Spaceworld video of a super detailed Ocarina-style video of Link and Ganondorf swordfighting. They were like hell yes get ready for this! That video blew people away, no one even knew they wanted that but after seeing it everyone couldn't wait for THAT game. Then after everyone was hyped for that specific thing they unveiled the goofy cartoony cel-shaded trailer and everyone was just confused and underwhelmed. Windwaker's art style was excellent but there was no way it could have gotten a good reveal with the way they handled it. They blamed the fans for wanting a gritty Zelda when they were the ones promising a gritty Zelda!
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Sep 9, 2013 21:25
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Louisgod posted:Eh, I'd say that's an after-effect of successful advertising and general demand, not necessarily something that spurred the purchases. I'd credit the Thanksgiving break right after the Wii was released for a big part of its success, where families were able to get together and try the thing out for themselves and said "I need one of these". It really was magical. The motion waggle stuff was like crack to normal people, but the real trick was that you had rabid Nintendo fans legitimizing it to their friends and family as a Real Thing worth buying, not just a crappy gimmick like any of those motion or virtual reality toys that pop up at Toys R Us. Over that holiday season I was basically a Nintendo salesman to three households in my extended family who all ended up buying it as their first ever console. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Sep 11, 2013 |
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Sep 11, 2013 17:07
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Toady posted:The focus on less committal casual gamers as its core audience left Nintendo without much of a user base when that audience drifted to smartphones and tablets. It put Nintendo behind in HD development, and it furthered the stigma of Nintendo's reliance on short-lasting gimmicks, so that the Wii U was less likely to be taken seriously. It also created the idea of a "war chest" that will keep Nintendo alive forever, like RIM. It wasn't so much the focus on the casual gamers, it was the treatment of them as disposable consumers. Nintendo didn't do anything to cultivate that base or offer followup products that they would be interested in, they sold them the Wii on the strength of Wii Sports and later Wii Fit, got as much money out of them as they could with cheapo gimmick waggle titles, then just left them hanging. They gave the people who gladly hopped on board no reason to stay interested, and then asked "Wait, why aren't you just giving us more money?" Casual gamers want casual things, they don't want lovely casual things. The Wii took off not just because waggle was cool but because Wii Sports was an excellent introduction. The stuff that followed was mostly gimmicky garbage and people saw it once the novelty wore off and they realized they were paying $50 a pop for garbage products. There were some excellent, top tier products available on the Wii like Mario Galaxy and Donkey Kong Country Returns, but those games are of no interest to the demographic the Wii captivated at launch. They were able to attract a huge nongaming audience but had no idea what to do with them when they showed up. And hey, people moved on to smartphones and tablets? Integrate that somehow into your tablet-knockoff system! People don't use smartphones and tablets because they like rectangles, they use them because they're convenient and omnipresent. The Wii U imitates the form of a tablet but not its function, it's absolutely stupid. Do some bullshit with Nintendoland and similar games where doing stuff there lets you unlock ringtones and apps and post poo poo on your friends' walls. A thing where beating level 4 lets you download a terrible photoshop app that lets you insert your friends' face into a mario catsuit would be way more interesting to my mom than using a tablet touchscreen to insert blocks in mario multiplayer with gamer friends who don't exist. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Sep 23, 2013 |
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Sep 23, 2013 22:49
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Furthermore, Well, I could point out you're comparing the peak results of Fame Douglas' established posts versus the new posts of Fulchrum, but I was talking more in terms of a reasonable product. Fulchrum was when posts made the true transition from an attempted emulation of the adult gamer experience to a more fully realized idea of reading posts as an experience meant not just to amuse, but to really sink ones teeth into. Lets compare the way the two posters approached posting about consoles. Fame Douglas gives us weak attempts at burns - colourful, simple, cartoony. Posting equivalent of candy. Fulchrum gives us Octodad. Towerfall Ascension. Mercenary Kings. Don't Starve. Resogun. Transistor. Artistic, hauntingly beautiful, impactful in the way no post before it could have been. Postings ambrosia.
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Jul 15, 2014 03:37
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I used to read this thread to laugh at how loving stupid and terrible the Wii U is. Today I bought one. gently caress.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:50
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GameCube had Smash Bros within a month, which was pretty much the console-defining title. And the N64 launched with Mario 64 and Pilotwings, with Shadows of the Empire soon after. Some good launches.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:11
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For some reason Amazon sells like every Wii U game for at least a $10 discount, NSMBU is $40 for example. gently caress game stop. Also I bought a Wii U mainly because of the strong recommendations on SA, had fun so far but when I come in here and people in both threads are getting hype as gently caress for Captain Toad and Splatoon I worry that I got trolled hard.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:15
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Kewpuh posted:i'm confused are you saying that you dont think splatoon doesnt look fun as hell?? Splatoon, like Captain Toad, looks like something I would gladly buy for $7.50 during a Steam sale.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:31
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Look I like Mario 64 too but Nintendo has made exactly two exploration focused Mario games and the last one was 12 years ago. If you wanna argue about how Mario "should be" you shouldn't be looking there. And 3D World is really fun and good and charming, every level has a different gimmick and the music and presentation are great and I like it a lot. It also made powerups a cool thing again instead of just part of situational puzzles which was a real weakness of previous 3D titles. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 17:51
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The thing about the gamepad is, unlike the wiimote if you don't use the gimmick it's still a perfectly fine, comfortable controller that serves the exact purpose a normal controller would.
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Oct 4, 2014 18:06
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The blowing thing is almost worth it for when we got to that part in 3D World and my girlfriend was like "What the gently caress are you doing" in a disgusted tone.
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Oct 4, 2014 19:10
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