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Oh hey, Spoiler Thread, wazzup?  Classtoise posted:Although if the "McGann regeneration" scene is true, that won't mesh and maybe the "He was stripped of his title so there are only 11 DOCTORS, but 11 regenerations total", but this makes Matt the Valeyard, because it's his penultimate regeneration. Pretty much. The idea is that Smith is the 11th one of this being to hold the title/name of "Doctor," but the 12th incarnation. One of them isn't considered "The/A Doctor" by his successors. This changes nothing then, about 9's guilt or the things 9/10 said about "I made it happen" and "I was there." One correction though:  the Valeyard was either the 13th Doctor or an incarnation between the Doctor's 12th and final incarnation.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznNXZqWFXA So Smith would next regenerate into The Valeyard. The "between" stuff was always a little vague, and it seemed like The Valeyard would be some other odd being like The Watcher or The Dream Lord, an idea made manifest. However this concept that there can be incarnations not known as "The Doctor" as well as the fact that the Great Intelligence said The Valeyard was a name by which The Doctor would someday be known suggests different. I'd say at this point it's very straightforward that when Smith regenerates he will regenerate into a darker being. He might still call himself The Doctor at first. But he'll still be doing the morally ambiguous stuff we've seen over the past 2 regenerations and eventually start doing horrible things to justify the ends, and come to call himself The Valeyard.
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May 22, 2013 03:41
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Porkchop Express posted:Man they aren't gonna hold true to the 13 regeneration a thing, it was a throwaway line in the original story, if the ratings are still strong they will go past 13 for sure. They certainly will, the same way the 12th Doctor won't turn into The Valeyard and be evil forever. It's just plot points for them to get some stories on. And before someone comes in and says:  "I hope they will just regenerate him and not say a THING about it or acknowledge it at all!" or  "But you see, in episode 43 of the Sarah Jane Adventures he said he had 570 regenerations, therefore..." I think it's safe to say that Moffat dropping the Valeyard and every other nerdy thing he's thrown in shows that Moffat would more than likely keep with the 12 regeneration limit and give the Doctor a new cycle explicitly.
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May 22, 2013 04:17
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There's no "graves" for any incarnations though, because the entire body moves on. That blue light was The Doctor's thirteenth body.
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May 22, 2013 13:05
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Emerson Cod posted:The Great Intelligence also refers to the Valeyard as a name for the Doctor in the past tense. So, the grave on Trenzalore is likely post-Valeyard, whenever he existed (exists, will exist?). I could have sworn, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the GI said "He will be known by other names...The Storm, The Beast, The Valeyard." Rhyno posted:RTD retconned his age. The 7th Doctor was 953 years old in his first appearance, Ten claimed to be 906 in his final outing. Moffat's been retconning it back though, with mentions of 900someodd years since he left Gallifrey.
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May 22, 2013 20:26
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Atarask posted:It would be interesting if they brought in the Valeyard as a recurring villain in future Smith seasons (separate from Hurt), which culminates in his final episode being at Trenzalore and regenerating into 12 (13th incarnation) and the Valeyard. I would love to see this because my personal dream for a Valeyard return would be the 12th Doctor saying to his current companion (which would be Clara, if Moffat goes there) "you have to leave me. I could become someone dangerous at any time." He's basically a ticking time bomb at that point. In the NAs, I always assumed that Muldwych was supposed to be the 12th Doctor, and he had exiled himself to Antykhon (future Earth) because he knew his next regeneration would be The Valeyard and he wanted to be alone and stranded.
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May 26, 2013 07:28
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Is there really any serious doubt that it is though? I mean, Clara opened a book about THE TIME WAR in Journey to the Center of the TARDIS. Why bring that up this season if the show wasn't going there? Also, I have no idea how this particular Clara would at that time have had any memories of her future splintered selves (as it seems the 21st Century Clara is the *real* Clara), but she did look in the book and say something like "so THAT'S who he was"--which probably means she saw a pic of Doctor Hurt fighting in the Time War.
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May 29, 2013 18:27
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Labratio posted:He already did; when River gives the Doctor rest of her regenerations in Let's Kill Hitler, we don't know how many she gives him, which means that there could be any number of them left in him at this point. She used her regeneration energy to heal him, costing all her regenerations. It wasn't a 1:1 swap.
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May 31, 2013 02:55
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Darth Brooks posted:Sup 3D modeling dude. Console seems a little close to the door. 
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May 31, 2013 16:00
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Whelp, looks like if Moffat is going to address The Valeyard, it's coming sooner than later.  If they don't do The Valeyard (and seriously, how awesome would it be to have Michael Jayston as a nice Doctor with a darker side who grows darker and knows he might slip and go full evil?), then my second choices would be Patterson Joseph and the rumored Ben Daniels. I was so disappointed when he left  :UK, so anything to give him work is good.Joseph and Daniels are both 48, which would make either of them the 3rd oldest after Hartnell and Pertwee. On the other hand, if we want to get an idea of where Moffat's head is at, personally I thought he was the most effusive about Pertwee in all the past Doctor specials so far. He may indeed go for a dashing older man of action/scientist.
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Jun 2, 2013 03:55
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Super.Jesus posted:For the Valeyard to happen, doesn't he have to break the timelock on Gallifrey in order to go back? He'd have to go back to Gallifrey in his own past, which he already did. That was already a rule he broke. The Time War timelock is a bit fuzzy. My personal theory is that for a Time War to be a Time War, you have to have an endgame like in Voyager where the goal is for both sides to erase the other from existence. So therefore the timelock would have removed all traces of Gallifrey and the Daleks from all history. This is supported in the new series by the fact that The Doctor claims he would have been able to feel the Master or any other Time Lord in all history but he was the Last and only one (because the Master was human). Also the Tree Lady from End of the World was of a "time sensitive" race, one of the very few who understood there was some other timeline with Time Lords protecting time and influence the universe. And The Reapers in Father's Day were the kind of thing that existed now that the Time Lords were gone. If the Time Lords were at any point influencing Time, then they would still be everywhere. Clearly when the Daleks came out of the timelock they were able to recreate historical Skaro and some version of their history beating the Thals, as well as the Asylum. But you don't need Gallifrey for The Valeyard to exist. If he can't get there, it's just an alternate timeline with one place he can't go. The Valeyard Doctor may have had many adventures before trying to steal his previous regenerations; in the beginning he may even have been good. Aurora posted:He's not the 'real 8th Doctor', they're already getting around that by every other Doctor striking him from the counting, it seems. Numbering is intact, as far as we know. He makes Smith the 11th Doctor, but on his 12th body. Which is suitably weird enough to explain away the Master's comment, especially assuming the Master himself may have had an incomplete understanding of the shenanigans which hosed up the numbering. Astroman fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jun 2, 2013 |
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Jun 2, 2013 04:23
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Was it ITT or on Digital Spy a few weeks ago where somebody was claiming top secret industry insider info from a friend of a friend that they were casting 12? Whoever they were, 
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Jun 3, 2013 01:36
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Gally posted:I dislike the idea that the terrible thing the forgotten doctor did was end the time war. The Doctor has taken credit for that one, over and over again. It would just seem odd to me if he distanced himself from that incarnation so much, but yet freely volunteered the information about what he did over and over. Which would mean that what Hurt's Doctor did was far worse than ever genocide of his own people. I hope that Hurt is a whole Doctor, with a bunch of adventures and starts off as a cool guy. That the implication is he did more than just the Time War, and was a total Doctor we'd really like. Hopefully in his small appearance he'll make as much of an impact as Jacobi did as The Master. This would also open up the idea of Big Finish audios with Doctor Hurt, if he's interested. Related to this, I hope that he had some darker moments in the Time War besides the end, because it leads to the greater narrative of the Valeyard, that the Doctor is getting closer and closer to this inevitability, that he was unable to change his own future. We've seen glimpses of that with  and what 10 did to The Family of Blood, as well as 11's dark moments in A Good Man Goes to War and what he did to the dude in Dinos on a Spaceship. And of course the Dreamlord. Tick-tock Doctor, he's coming. The very act of Eccleston's Doctor deciding to "unname" his last incarnation and call himself the 9th Doctor while in his 10th incarnation itself paves the way for the Master's odd comment about the Valeyard being "between the Doctor's 12th and final incarnation." By trying to absolve his guilt for whatever he did, Eccleston's Doctor moved the prophecy forward that he's been trying to avoid since his Trial.Which makes me hope that 12 is a darker, more edgier Doctor. He should still have mostly moments of levity and niceness, and be the good guy. But at the same time he should have more moments of darkness. Like a better played 6. I think Ben Daniels could nail this. The fear is that any minute now he could snap and do some really bad things, and even become so desperate to extend his life that he'd do anything to live. Thus the story of this regeneration becomes one of redemption and renewal when he inevitably gets his new cycle of regenerations. We could then leave the whole emo/dark/"I don't want to go"/"I'm so old" Doctor that we've had since 2005 behind. The danger in this is it's a long game, and we saw how a darker Doctor backfired with Colin's. If they cast an older Doctor they'll be courting danger by losing twee new fans as it is who want a young sexy lurvly Doctor. Make him kinda jerky and it could really hurt the show, interesting narrative be dammed.
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Jun 5, 2013 03:13
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No no no:Box of Bunnies posted:Dr. Who IS REQUIRED
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Jul 25, 2013 02:30
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Fazana posted:Last bookies post I promise If I had to choose between Idris Elba being James Bond or Doctor Who...that would be a tough choice!
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Aug 2, 2013 17:43
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scary ghost dog posted:Come on guys we all know it's gonna be this fellow I'll allow it if that's his costume as well.
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Aug 3, 2013 17:29
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Sieje posted:No, the clue is right there! Obviously an Ace Doctor means they've cast Sophie Aldred as 12. Seven's plans for her are finally coming to fruition. Quite a long game indeed. Knew it.
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Aug 4, 2013 17:29
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Umbra Dubium posted:If I wish hard enough it actually looks like Omega. If Omega wishes hard enough it is Omega.
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Aug 26, 2013 14:25
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Senor Tron posted:Don't think it's gonna happen and hope its not because I want to see Capaldi as the Doctor, but would be a great piece of misdirection if Capaldi was just a decoy who played along because he's such a big fan of the show. If they did some kind of fakeout that somehow led to Doctor Hurt being the real 12th Doctor and Capaldi being a one off after that huge introduction show it would be amazing. You have to admit, it's the most outrageous thing they could possibly do. They'd be fooling the world. A massive stunt for the 50th. Maybe say Hurt could be the "Real 9" who was de-Doctored and Capaldi is indeed the 12th Doctor/13th Body. He is born and dies in the Christmas Special. Moffat does the MacGuffin story of giving the Doctor a new regeneration cycle in that same episode, and he can choose his next body and he chooses to give Doctor Hurt another chance. Bam, 4 years of John Hurt as The Doctor. The one problem I could see is whether or not they need a long lead in time to write the next season. If they are already writing them before December then too many people might have to know who the Doctor is. But if they aren't airing til the fall of 2014, they might be able to wait til January to commission scripts. That's also a lot of story to tell in one hour. Personally I'd rather see a Capaldi Doctor for a few years, but a Hurt one would by no means be a bad thing, and the sheer ballsiness of doing that stunt would be worth it. Kinda like my brief hope that RTD was going to really surprise regenerate 10 (but then he Handwaved it--literally).
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Aug 26, 2013 15:44
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I want River to be in this special only so she can slap Rose if she hits on Eleven.
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Sep 11, 2013 02:17
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Bicyclops posted:I hope it's fun "I love traveling through space and time" Rose and not Bad Wolf bay realdoll Tennant Rose. I hope even more it's not the "insufferable twee I love traveling through space and time and it's all a big joke" Rose we saw in Tooth and Claw.
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Sep 11, 2013 03:01
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The_Doctor posted:Or maybe they just gave him his own copy because they knew Tennant would just show it to him anyway. I love imagining Sunday lunch at the Davison house. The convention videos Davison made where Tennant shows up and tells him to stop hanging around are hilarious. Some people are speculating that Davison might be playing Omega in a 5th Doctor's body again. Though that might be a reference too far to pack into one special, it would make sense that if the Time Lords where bringing back Rassilon, they might bring back his Best Frenemy Forever Omega for the last act of Gallifreyan Society. Or hell, maybe the Daleks would recruit him. "Hey, you hate Gallifreyans, right? So do we!" 
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Sep 13, 2013 21:10
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Teek posted:http://www.scottishdailyexpress.co....again-and-again quote:And some mega-fans have vowed to abandon the show if the Doctor breaks the law and survives his 12th regeneration. ...said nobody, ever. Seriously? I have yet to hear that from the most sperging of nerds.
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Oct 9, 2013 15:21
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MAJOR SPOILER...When you watch the Web of Fear, the Great Intelligence has met the Doctor not once, but TWICE chronologically before!  Seriously, in some news that seemed to fall under the radar in all the missing episodes hoopla was this that I just read: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/another-companion-returning-for-50th-53741.htm quote:OK! Magazine may have printed a huge 50th anniversary spoiler (or a shocking mistake) in their latest issue.  DONNA!!!!
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Oct 11, 2013 02:19
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Rhyno posted:I hate you. Did your father turn into Peter Davison?
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Oct 11, 2013 21:31
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Metal Loaf posted:I remember reading about something like that; in the scenario I heard about, they were getting a bit of stick for the stories being too scary for kids so someone on the production staff (it might have been Hinchcliffe, but I'm not sure) had a letter printed in Radio Times in which they advised kids to watch with their parents in case mum and dad were frightened. I read about it too, but I can't recall the context.
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Oct 12, 2013 00:12
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Spoiler pics ahoy! http://observationdeck.io9.com/new-pics-from-sfx-magazine-give-a-teeny-peek-at-the-day-1444358299/@laurendavis  That's SFX magazine, not SEX magazine...  "Ok boys, now look SERIOUS!"  Great look at Doctor Hurt's costume and the Real 9th Doctor's sonic screwdriver! It really does seem like they went for a straight up "in between" costume between 8 and Other 9:  The waistcoat Hurt is wearing and watch chain are stylistically like 8's though a different color. And of course a fob watch has taken on a whole new meaning in the new series, but in this case perhaps a fob watch is just a fob watch. The jacket is not to dissimilar to this:  If not quite the same. It's hard to tell. Interestingly it's also not too far off from: 
Astroman fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Oct 13, 2013 |
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Oct 13, 2013 02:20
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Metal Loaf posted:They also put "GOING" under Smith. Perhaps there is also some bizarre relevance to placing "FOR" under Tennant, as well. Code for his scene with Tom Baker halfway through the episode. 
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Oct 15, 2013 20:47
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It owns that they have a near perfect replica/original old set that they kept around as a museum piece and also use it every now and again for filming. Now if only they'd do that for the Adventures in Space and Time set... Seeing the pics of these guys together is getting me really excited about the episode. If the other thread speculation that Hurt might be an older McGann is true, I'm going to be very upset. Don't ruin this for me, Moffat!!  Though in theory if 8's TARDIS was really 7's, 8 could have changed it around after the movie to look like we saw it in Rose and 9 and 10 just kept it the same. So we could be seeing 10 meeting 8 in his TARDIS. I hate how much sense this is starting to make. 
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Oct 16, 2013 04:01
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2house2fly posted:Wait but do Time Lords age? The doctor claimed to have been pottering about for 200 years in the first Silence episode, and nothing that happened later seemed to contradict him. But the Master aged him with a laser screwdriver in the episode where the Master was prime minister. I'm sure there have been other reference but I can't think of any off the top of my head. For the Doctor to age physically in one body, from everything we've seen on the show would take close to 1000 years or more. Usually centuries can go by in a body with no apparent affects. Which is probably part of the Time Lord way of life...live 1000-2000 years in a body, get a new one, for a life of 15,000 or so years. Hartnell's Doctor was 750, and it almost seems as though the older he gets, the less aging affects each regeneration.
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Oct 16, 2013 14:09
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I'm betting that's exactly what it is. The 10th Doctor is with Queen Elizabeth fighting Zygons in Ye Olde England and gets whisked away by Plot.
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Oct 20, 2013 18:40
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egon_beeblebrox posted:Official Synopsis for The Day of the Doctor It's like somebody looked at the set spoiler pics and wrote a synopsis.
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Nov 4, 2013 23:32
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I just want Moffat to bring dignity back to regeneration. It felt so weird for Ten to forestall the process and actually complain about having to go. Every other Doc accepted that his time was up. Eleven should do the same. I think it was less complaining and more fear of mortality. Since interviews and such indicated Moffat is addressing the regeneration limit, it stands to reason that 10 knew he was 1 life closer to dying and that was coming sooner than later. Depending on where Doctor Hurt fits in, he knew he was regenerating into his 3rd or 2nd to last body. It's understandable that he'd be upset. I would expect more of the same when 11 goes.
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Nov 5, 2013 14:10
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I'm betting they explain it away as "he got joke married to her for some contrived reason and found out she was having an affair with someone else and they never actually did anything more than kiss." Then he bails on her, never comes back, and she wants him dead when she sees him later in her life (earlier in his).
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Nov 8, 2013 01:36
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Rhyno posted:Anyone notice Hurt's using a different control console? Looks like a newer version of 9's... Desktop settings. But those supports do look like 9/10's. And it seems confirmed that this is the Time War Doctor. Hell, looks like we get to see The Moment. Now imagine all those Dalek battle scenes and Doctor Hurt walking around going on at the same time as the scenes with Rassilon we saw a couple seasons back. moths posted:
Agreed. Whatever they give us won't be enough. I hope they do many more things together...anniversaries, audios, whatever.
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Nov 9, 2013 04:15
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Muppetjedi posted:Here's the extended trailer that was on BBC1 about 20 minutes ago. Just came to post this!  I'm squeeing right now, and I usually don't go in for that sort of thing!  "You've redecorated. I don't like it." :19 Robed men, possibly Time Lords, striding Seriously...maybe even Rassilon? :26 For a split second I thought that might've been McGann, but I think it's Kate Stewart or another UNIT functionary with longer hair leading 11 and Clara down a hallway. Perhaps the hall with the Doctor Paintings we've heard about? "I remember this...well almost remember." I always wondered how they'd get around that this time! "Just once I'd really like to know where I'm going!" "No, YOU WOULDN'T!" This is gonna be awesome! Edit: More stuff: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/11/09/doctor-who-minisode-the-night-of-the-doctor-arrives-on-the-bbc-red-button-this-tuesday/ quote:As of next weekend, UK viewers will be able to see a new Doctor Who minisode, The Night of the Doctor, via the BBC Red Button service. Astroman fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Nov 9, 2013 |
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Nov 9, 2013 21:45
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bobkatt013 posted:Why would they do that? God hates Kamelion and anyone involved with him. "You'd think it would be impossible for a CGI robot to break, but guess what?"
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Nov 10, 2013 01:38
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bobkatt013 posted:I wonder if she is just the Tardis in human form and using Rose since she was Bad Wolf. Seconding this theory.
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Nov 13, 2013 21:15
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I feel the need to post in this thread as well to say how loving AWESOME that minisode was.Teek posted:He's not the Doctor. He's clearly "THE WAR DOCTOR" as the credits states. It's an interesting way to do things, and I wonder if it didn't really stem as a workaround because Eccleston bailed. Moffat clearly wanted to do something around The Time War, and he probably approached Eccleston for a Three Doctors style episode where they'd team up and put 9's demons to rest. Probably wrote a cracking script and was really attached to it and approached Eccleston who said "thanks but no thanks." So he had to rejigger it. I suppose he could have made 8 the one who fought in the war, but quite frankly I like it better this way. It preserves his character a bit as being the optimistic one that sees the best in everyone and is ever hopeful and out for adventure.
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Nov 14, 2013 18:29
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Rita Repulsa posted:Question that brings up for me is that that makes for 13 regenerations The Metacrises explanation at the time was when a Time Lord regenerates, it first heals them, then changes them. It's a two part process, which Time Lords can't control (without help from Time Lord or Karn medical facilities). If you think about it, regeneration could just be healing, there's no reason it has to change their appearance. But Rassilon or whoever wrote it otherwise into their DNA. 10 states that he used the regeneration energy to heal himself, and forstalled the second part of the process by throwing it into The Hand. Now that would use up a regeneration, but perhaps by not going through with it he "tricked" his body into thinking it wasn't a regeneration. OR... Moffat, by adding a new Doctor in is making the story of the new regeneration cycle sooner then later, possibly wanting to address it during his tenure. It's quite possible that the Metacrises DID burn up a regeneration, in which case 11 is on the last body. This actually fits as the TARDIS Tomb looks like 11's and it's hinted that he is 11 when he dies there--there are no further Doctor's in his grave/headspace. So it could be that Moffat is tackling the regeneration issue in the Christmas special itself, and Capaldi isn't the Last Doctor of his first cycle, but a First Doctor of another 12 (or infinite) regenerations. Personally I think that storyline deserves at least a season, but it is appropriate to do in the 50th year--give the character a new lease on life, get rid of all the baggage of the The Time War, getting older, closer to death, etc. Capaldi's Doctor could be the most non-brooding, happy go lucky one we've seen in years.
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Nov 14, 2013 20:46
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Rita Repulsa posted:Oh yeah, I miscalculated. Eleven known doctors means TEN regenerations. Plus one for metacrisis plus another for hurt is twelve, not thirteen. Yeah, but the fact of the matter is Capaldi is definitely the last life, and if Metacrisis counts he's the start of a new cycle. PriorMarcus posted:The concept is awesome, however the quick switch from never wanting to take part in the war to deciding to regenerate into a soldier was so abrupt it just made him look silly. The vibe I got was that this was an 8 who had been on the periphery of The Time War for a long time, arguing with the Time Lords about joining them, reasoning with himself about not participating, and helping out where he could. The death of this one person, while seemingly insignificant, was the straw that broke the camel's back. Plus the Sisterhood wasn't giving him much choice...agree to fight or you die here in this body because you're already dead.
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Nov 14, 2013 22:52
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