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allta posted:
Yeah, this one is pretty clearly Charleston. The pattern on the masks' forehead is the Charleston peninsula from the air, and the shape of the little mask is the shape of Fort Sumter from the air. quote:Not used/Not known verse: Almost any of these could be a Charleston verse. The "sovereign people built palaces to shelter their heads for a night" certainly describes the antebellum architecture of Charleston. "Citadel at night" could refer to The Citadel school in Charleston; "Long palm's shadow" could be anywhere in Charleston or Florida.
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May 31, 2013 16:34
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If Verse 9 is the Charleston verse, it would make a lot of sense as the Fort Sumter verse. "The first chapter, written in water". First chapter of the civil war?quote:The first chapter EDIT:  https://maps.google.com/maps?q=google+maps+fort+moultrie&ie=UTF-8&ei=0fOoUYT6H5GA9gSXl4G4CQ&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg The area to the left of Fort Moultrie there, if you zoom in on Google Maps, there's a long stretch of picket fence, some of which is now dilapidated and unpainted but which could have been green, some of which is now painted white. It's immediately next to Fort Moultrie, which is part of the Fort Sumter national park. There's a large tree back there too but I imagine there would've been other trees there before Hugo came through, so who knows. It's on the waterfront so seems to fit a lot of details. Of course, it also makes sense for St. Augustine to fit the "first chapter" in this verse, as the oldest settlement in the US, and St. Augustine is also a port and has shell/limestone construction in plenty of places. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 19:44
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My wife suspects that the "wingless bird" in Verse 5 may refer to a cannonball. That could be a general reference to Fort Sumter, but metal stars similar to the star on the mask/pendant's right side are often used in Charleston as historical markers of where civil war cannonballs were dug up/found.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:22
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Fistgrrl posted:Ireland. I don't get the countries either but the list is on the front page of the wiki: (scroll to Summary) As far as that goes, the fairy in the Charleston image looks vaguely African-American and has bracelets that vaguely resemble manacles. Slavery? There are a few places in Charleston still associated with slavery, such as the Old Slave Mart, etc.
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Jun 2, 2013 00:37
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Is there a .pdf of the full book anywhere? There may be additional clues beyond the verses and pictures.
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Jun 2, 2013 19:44
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Charleston Don't think there's ever been a world's fair in Charleston, either. bonestructure posted:Cask 2 - Charleston SC This is a neat theory, but it it has some problems. For one thing, the lion exhibit closed as of 1975, which would probably be too many years prior to the book's publication. The lion could just be a generic Africa reference, though, which fits in with other details we have, as per the poem for Cask 2: quote:Cask 2, Africa Otherwise your thoughts on Edwin and Edwina Harleston are worth considering, only so many "Edwinas" out there. I still think Poem 2 is worth considering, but Poem 2 is nigh indecipherable: quote:At the place where jewels abound "A Sovereign People" could be a civil war reference -- South Carolina was first to secede. And the antebellum homes in downtown Charleston certainly are "palaces to shelter / their heads for a night!" The same might be said of New Orleans, though. One possible answer is that the reference to "Iberia" is a reference to Moorish Iberia, and another veiled Africa reference. EDIT: ANother possibility, though: Marion Square park in Charleston could fit with verse 5 in that the old Citadel building, which is literally shaped like a castle, is directly adjacent to the park on the north side. 2nd edit: I'm really dense and momentarily confused CASK 2 with VERSE 2. 3rd EDIT: More I think about it, yeah, Hampton Park kinda works. It was founded at the "West Indian" exposition in 1900, "the birth of a century." Is there any actual sand at Hampton Park though? Unfortunately I fear the park's had some major renovation since the 1980's. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 04:40
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I don't see a copy for sale on Amazon but it looks like biblio.com might have one. We really need a high quality scan of the whole book.
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Jun 3, 2013 17:07
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Kingnothing posted:I must say the weird nose shadow is present in both images in the same exact place. I suspect the artist was probably working from reference photographs. Wouldn't surprise me if that shot of the Statue's face with that exact shadow was the reference photo used for that part of the image.
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Jun 3, 2013 17:54
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Plus, asking the illustrator seems like cheating.
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Jun 3, 2013 18:50
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Barfoid 3 posted:Ok. But the OP was confident that this one was in boston before people started making all these "connections" to the library, etc. Why? I believe that the OP was based on the Lemontiger deduction pages: http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/
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Jun 3, 2013 19:17
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Barfoid 3 posted:Is there a better summary of the OP's evidence that cask 11 is boston? That's just a link to unlabeled images. There's also this: http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/22148559/FrontPage
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Jun 3, 2013 19:47
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Absolute Lithops posted:New Orleans/Charleston Yeah, I saw that but I couldn't find the quote. It could be coincidence or error until we see the quote. Regardless though everyone seems to think an entirely different verse fits New Orleans anyway.
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Jun 3, 2013 19:49
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How much would it cost to rent ground imaging radar for a day or two?
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Jun 4, 2013 13:08
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CHARLESTONbonestructure posted:Yeah, I brought up Hampton Park as a possible location earlier in the thread. The curved line doesn't match up, but a fair number of other things do. There are still a lot of "hits" on the Sullivan's Island / Fort Moultrie theory, though, especially some of those images. Personally right now I think the most likely theory is somewhere on the coast near Fort Moultrie, with the problem that Hurricane Hugo took down a lot of trees and landmarks around there so those parts of verse may now be indecipherable (hence my suggestion of taking ground penetrating radar). Hampton Park seems a decent theory also due to its proximity to the Citadel and the 1900 West Indian exposition, but the whole lion thing seems like a huge stretch because the lion was gone by 1975 and Preiss wasn't a Charleston native. Marion Square also is adjunct to the *old* citadel building. I wonder if any of the verses potentially match up with Charles Towne Landing.
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Jun 4, 2013 13:29
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BJG posted:This book does have some really obscure things in it. Like, "Edwin and Edwina named after him" is borrowed from P164 of a book called "Abroad in America". Link to the book in question: http://www.amazon.com/Abroad-America-Visitors-Nation-1776-1914/dp/0201000318
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Jun 4, 2013 15:35
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Kingnothing posted:While I like the Bryant Park theory as well, I agree with this. I also see that we can rule out Edwin Booth because Edwin and Edwina have nothing to do with him as posted earlier. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that based on a random quote from a random book. Coincidences are possible when you're google-searching the entire internet for phrases.
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Jun 4, 2013 16:56
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Chunderstorm posted:I am 99% sure that "Beneath the only standing member of a forest" just means under/next to a tree, presumably by itself. Good poo poo otherwise, dude. Hope you find it. Yeah, I mentioned Marion Square upthread as a possible. You'd think there would be a more explicit reference to the John C. Calhoun statue, that thing dominates the square. I think a lot of renovation was done on Marion Square in the early 80's but it may just have been surface landscaping -- if the casques were buried a few feet deep could very well still be there. A bigger issue is that a lot of notable trees were blown down in Hugo so for any given tree in Charleston it's a gamble as to whether or not it's still there.
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Jun 4, 2013 18:21
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There's this copy on biblio.com :http://www.biblio.com/books/472457234.html Twelve bucks, plus $30 shipping to the US!
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Jun 4, 2013 19:23
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TotalHell posted:This post got me thinking, why not White Point Gardens? It may seem too obvious, but wasn't the whole idea that he suspected these things would be found? This is clearly very speculative, but I'd just like to add a case for White Point Gardens into the mix: How could you possibly write about White Point Gardens and the Battery without writing about pirates OR the little dancing girl statue, though? You'd think one or the other would be in the image at least. I had the same thought ("Is the Battery just too obvious?") but you're right, a lot of things fit. You can see Fort Sumter from the shore (there's even a marker conveniently pointing it out),
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Jun 4, 2013 19:49
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I think that's just a reference to diamond == africa = slave fairy in the picture, Charleston's history of slavery, etc. The midnight rock is presumably coal. And, of course, there's a white house and a palm tree right here: http://goo.gl/maps/5hp4c If you go over the battery wall and down there's rock and sand at the base of the wall. There's even a little beach about a block down the street at the base of the wall. No palm trees though that I remember anyway, not down there. Edit: here's the little mini-beach, white house and palm tree nearby: http://goo.gl/maps/uQPIu The benefit of that beach is it's a place it would be easy to go digging around in. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 20:42
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bonestructure posted:The Battery and that little spit of sand down in the corner by Water St are continually pounded by the waves in the harbor. The "beach" changes in size and shape from month to month and sometimes from day to day if there are storms. Anything buried there would almost certainly be washed away. Unfortunately I'm up in Columbia now and can't really make it down -- I'm just voyeur-hunting :P If it were buried deep enough it could still be there, but then there's water table issues, I'm not sure how deep it could have been buried. That's also a good long distance away from the actual park. I just remember wanting to dig there when I was a kid and my parents saying "hell no." Alternate theory, and a general observation: The "long palm's shadow" could refer to the palm of a hand, such as that on the Confederate memorial monument statue, not a palm tree.
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Jun 4, 2013 21:06
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BJG posted:Incidentally apart from the month/flower/gem and lat/long, another thing several of these pics may have in common are the shapes of parks. Eg maybe Shore Road Park in NY...? (Still my favourite for a view of the "Isle of B", aka Bedloes/Liberty) Yeah, there are a number of weird little shapes in the Charleston image that I can't reconcile. I spent a while trying to match up Castle Pinckney with various shapes like the butterfly wings etc. and it just doesn't work. Problem is hurricanes have changed coastlines anyway.
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Jun 4, 2013 23:17
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CHARLESTON A few more thoughts, some of which may be repetitious: Presuming we're on verse six: quote:Between two arms extended Those three lines seem like they're the "x marks the spot" for this verse. "Between two arms extended" seems like it probably means the two arms of a statue. There are two separate statues in Charleston's White Point Gardens that have extended arms. The first is the Confederate Memorial out on the point. Two statues each waving an arm around. If that's it, the "Bar that Binds" could be the dike wall of Charleston, which bars the ocean from flooding the city and binds the city together as well. "Beside the long palm's shadow" could be a palmetto tree or the palm of a statue (perhaps at the time of day/month noted on the clock?). One interesting point with this theory is that inset into the dike wall, directly opposite and in front of the Confederate Memorial statue, is a marker pointing out Fort Sumter dead ahead in the harbor and Fort Moultrie off to the side. There's another statue with an extended arm in the park, though -- the Sergeant Jasper memorial. If we draw a line between that and the Confederate memorial, that would be "between two arms extended" also. If we really want to get crazy "arms" could refer to the cannons.
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Jun 5, 2013 15:35
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CHARLESTON There are four parts of the Charleston image that are still really bugging me. 1) The pattern on the lion's forehead. This looks like a coastal/river map but I can't make it match up with anything in google maps. Part of the problem may be that the coastlines may look really different at high and low tide. 2) The patterns in the fairy's wings. The outer edges look vaguely like coastline (perhaps the "wings" of the harbor mouth?) but again, don't quite match up. The inner sections look a little like cobble-stone streets (Chalmers street?) but again nothing quite matches. For a while I thought I could get them to match up with Shute's Folly Island / Castle Pinckney (what a great location to bury something!) but again, doesn't quite fit (and what other landmarks would be on Castle Pinckney to triangulate off of?) 3) The pine branch, and 4) the pear -- are these connected? A rebus of some kind? All I can come up with is "hey, sometimes pears look like apples, pineapple? Pineapples are all over Charleston!" but that's a huge stretch it seems. And there's only one really striking Pineapple landmark in Charleston, the pineapple fountain in waterfront park, and that wasn't built till the '90s. EDIT: Doing searches on Google maps, I don't turn up any pear or pine streets in Charleston (though there's a pear street out in Hollywood it's not near anything significant). There's an Evergreen street out west ashley but it's just a modern suburban neighborhood. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jun 5, 2013 |
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Jun 5, 2013 18:28
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BJG posted:The Pear could be Pearman bridge and/or a hint at the South Carolina flag, with a crescent in the shadow: Hrrrmmm. If the Pear is (was) the Pearman bridge, it's gone now. Maybe the pine branch is actually a road or river map with the pear marking where the bridge connects/crosses it? I also wondered if the butterfly fair wings were a reference to the butterfly pond out at Middleton PLace but again doesn't fit.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:01
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PunkNickel posted:If you look at allta's post on page 26, the "summary post" for this cask, this has been addressed. Orange_Lazarus provided a map that shows a very similar/matching water way with the pattern on the lions head. I think the post you're referencing is about the pattern on the mask, not the pattern on the lions' forehead. The pattern on the mask is a 100% match with the Charleston peninsula, it's what nails that as the Charleston image. Only idea so far for the lion-forehead is a map of the Holy Roman Empire and that just doesn't seem to match up.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:12
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Tjadeth posted:I quite like this theory for the purpose of the daisy. The pear could represent something else, but if you put any more on the daisy, it'll be pulling triple-shift as a stand-in palm tree, a birth flower, and a third piece of symbolism. Oh wow, daisy-as-palmetto works really well, I hadn't put that together till you said. Could be another sign pointing towards Ft. Moultrie & the palmetto logs.
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Jun 5, 2013 22:07
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TotalHell posted:My main issue with the pear/SC flag tree thing is that it doesn't necessarily tell us anything new if it IS true (unless it's really abstractly pointing to Fort Moultrie, which I am willing to keep as a possibility). We know it's in Charleston, SC. I feel like it's much more likely that it means something just as you said: in conjunction with the pine and probably the daisy as well. I buy that the daisy is a Palmetto tree, though mostly because I think it's reinforcing Fort Moultrie as the site (with a possible secondary reference to the Sergeant Jasper monument in White Point Gardens, though that's a Huuuuge stretch and unlikely imho). I don't really buy that the pear is the crescent, I think it's more likely a part of some kind of rebus.
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Jun 6, 2013 03:03
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The Charleston Aquarium wasn't completed till well after the date of the book. The Angel Oak might be worth looking at in more detail but the real problem is there's nothing there except Oak Tree, no other markers or statues or anything to serve as landmarks or reference points for the other dates in the verse. Not buying the flounder image personally but it's as good a guess as anything I've come up with (cobblestones?) I think the pear must be a rebus of some kind. Pair of . . . ?
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Jun 6, 2013 14:19
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Bloke posted:Haha I can't believe we had the new orleans so wrong, it's audobon park/zoo. And it's definitely verse 7, I'm still working on it but will post later. This is like the Fermat's Last Theorem for this thread, isn't it?
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Jun 7, 2013 19:35
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TotalHell posted:There is Slave Mart Museum, which is in an old slave mart building. Not sure if it was a museum when this book was written or not. It's been a museum for forever but I think it was closed during most of the 80's (could be wrong). There's not really a park nearby or anywhere that's an obvious place to bury stuff. My bet is that it's near the "white stone" with the 3 and the inverted 2 in Fort Moultrie.
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Jun 9, 2013 05:19
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TotalHell posted:You might be able to speak to this: I was just reading an article that mentioned the Battery area has a bit of a lion theme going on, with lion statues, lion heads covering earthquake bolts, and lion faces in iron fences. Do you know if this is the case? Might be a big clue. Eh, sortof. It's probably worth having someone wander around downtown with a camera and photograph anything they see that's vaguely lion shaped. There are a few houses etc. that have lion statues but I'm not sure anything that's coherent enough to be an obvious clue.
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Jun 9, 2013 05:28
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Yeah, my guess is the writer just traveled to Montreal and was looking for distinctive landmarks, and the legeater is pretty distinctive.
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Jun 9, 2013 14:02
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bonestructure posted:Cask 2 - Charleston, SC Nice! If this works, I'm totally taking credit for pointing out that "arms" could have meant between two arms of two different statues at WPG.
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Jun 19, 2013 16:39
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For flowers, check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_flowers I'd always heard it as "shrinking violet" though.
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Jun 20, 2013 18:35
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I really doubt it's at Fort Sumter itself if only because getting out to the fort outside of daylight hours is really difficult and it seems Preiss generally buried the casques covertly. At this point the White Point Gardens theories have a lot of merit and I think there's still some decent arguments for Fort Moultrie also.
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Jun 24, 2013 17:02
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The issue is that it's not clear Preiss got permission for any of his digs. Unfortunately though anyone retrieving the treasure and then publicizing that fact would have to worry about the consequences of digging without permission in a way that Preiss didn't.
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Jul 10, 2013 16:28
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AT this point I suspect the limiting factor is more restrictions on ability and willingness to dig than anything else. There are plenty of theories, and there are only so many public parks in each of these towns. The problem is people don't want to get arrested for ravaging a historical site with a shovel, can't get permission from park maintenance, live in the wrong city and can't get there to dig, or the park in question is gone now or so wildly remodeled that digging would be pointless.
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Jul 30, 2013 17:58
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SquadronROE posted:Holy cow, this is amazing. I live very close to Charleston so I think I'm going to take a look at that possible one a lot closer. Is the information in the OP and 2nd post still pretty accurate for where we stand? Somewhere around the middle of the thread there's a really, really strong White Point Gardens theory, and there's a decent theory for for moultrie also. Problem is digging in either of those areas is a crime.
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Aug 12, 2013 20:10
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SheepNameKiller posted:It's not ADD, it's the lack of the ability for people to go out and confirm if any of our ideas are at all correct. Between legal concerns, 40 years worth of construction, and lack of goon motivation, we're just throwing theories out and in many cases have no way of confirming them. Yeah, the sad thing about this thread is that I think people have probably figured out a lot of the locations long ago but dude committed a bunch of probable felonies burying the things in restricted locations and nobody wants to risk digging them up.
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Sep 21, 2013 14:31
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