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Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008
The old thread was old, so I figured it was high time for a new one, which also provided me with a great way to get on my soapbox about careers.

This thread is about American practices. Who knows what the hell goes on elsewhere.

The best way to get a job is to know somebody. Network and get connections and you can ignore almost all of this.

Cover letters are simple. "I'm applying for your position of CHOCOLATE TEAPOT MAKER. I would be a good fit for this position because of my experience with SKILL #1 FROM JOB DESCRIPTION and SKILL #2 FROM JOB DESCRIPTION I gained at PRIOR EMPLOYER. In fact, I RELEVANT STATISTIC ABOUT A SKILL IN THE JOB DESCRIPTION THAT SOUNDS IMPRESSIVE. I am excited about this position with COMPANY NAME HERE because of TIDBIT FROM WEBSITE. I look forward to speaking with you."

Tell me what I need to know about making a good resume!
  • The one weird old tip that your doctor hates, discovered by a mom that will set you apart from anybody else: your resume is a showcase of your accomplishments, not a rehash of your experience. You need to sell, sell, sell how you stood out in every single job.
  • Numbers, metrics, and performance stats are your friend. "Sold over $30,000 worth of widgets to 294 separate accounts during December" vs. "Responsible for the sale of widgets for the Northeastern division" -- which one do you care about? Who cares if the best widget seller sold $1,000,000 worth of widgets? Nobody else knows that!
  • Your resume should be 1 page. 2 pages if you have extensive experience. Recruiters spend less than 30 seconds reading it. Nobody's going to be mad if it is longer but nobody's going to read it either.
  • Things that should never be on your resume, part 1: "References available on request"
  • Use lots of whitespace and a readable font. Don't make it 8 point Bullshit Micro to fit everything on one page. Cut material instead.
  • Start with a summary of qualifications and tailor it for every job you apply to. The recruiter/hiring manager will read this and should hear all sorts of bells go off, because you stuff it with keywords that are the same as in the job description. Easy peasy.
  • Things that should never be on your resume, part 2: any "Objective" statement
  • Make sure everything is spelled correctly and makes grammatical sense.
  • The resume is a sales document. You do not have to exhaustively list everywhere you have ever worked. Don't tell us about your time as Lead Swabbie at Captain D's 8 years ago if you're applying to be a phone system technician.
  • If you are applying for an office job, do not list that you are proficient with Microsoft Office, and are therefore part of the exclusive club known as "Everybody".
  • Unless this is your first job out of college, put your education at the end of the resume and emphasize it as little as possible. Do not include your GPA unless it is 3.5+.
  • DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use some dumb-rear end gimmick like colored paper or a bizarre landscape-vertical format or stuffing it into a Priority Mail envelope and mailing it with a glitterbomb or ....... The way you stand out in resume review is to have a good resume. Think for one second: do you really want to work somewhere where the main qualification for your peers is how gimmicky they could be with their application?
  • Things that should never be on your resume, part 3: anything that could be used to discriminate illegally against you: photograph, birthdate, SSN (!!), marital status, number of children, sexual orientation, etc. -- even in the names of clubs or organizations, if you can avoid it. Putting this information on your resume shows a level of naivete about the process and also enables scummy organizations to discriminate against you when they shouldn't be able to!

OMG they want to do a phone screen help omg i'm too excited to remember how to hit shift11111
A phone screen generally exists to make sure that you can communicate intelligibly in English and that you are not a complete idiot. Keep those things in mind and you will be fine. You may be asked some "situational-based" questions. These are easy to identify because they almost start with "Tell me about a time when...". These are trivial to answer if you remember to be a STAR (dead link removed). If you can't remember that gimmicky thing, just tell a complete story, from beginning to end, explaining what you needed to do, why you needed to do it, who was involved, what you specifically did (seriously, use "I" here - not "we", lots of hiring managers hate that because it makes it sound like the situation happened with you as a passive observer), and the outcome. Success or failure are okay, as long as you can show you learned from it and you had a good reason to fail.

Tell me the quick things I need to know about succeeding in an interview!
  • Dress up. Wear a suit if you are a guy or a nice dress/skirt set if you are a gal. Exception: If you are going for a job in tech/gaming/some other 'casual' industry wear a nice shirt that doesn't have anything screenprinted on it and some pants that don't have holes.
  • Give a firm handshake but don't try to crush the interviewer's hand.
  • Bring some loving questions. A good fallback question can always be "Tell me about a typical day for a chocolate teapot maker" or "What is the biggest challenge you've had to face and how did you overcome it?"
  • Another weird old tip for winning at interviews: when you are talking to the hiring manager (and only to that person), ask them this question: "What sets apart a truly outstanding chocolate teapot maker from just an OK one?" and really actively listen to the answer. Hiring managers LOVE that attitude and it shows that you want to kick rear end and make their lives easier.
  • Be nice (to everyone! I always ask the receptionist, security staff, and tour guides how the candidate treated them. Any rudeness there is an instant no), and be yourself. Also remember, you're interviewing them. You'll spend at least 40 hours a week there for a while, and you don't want it to be in a place you hate. Look around and get a sense of the vibe. If your gut tells you no, listen to it.
  • Look above in the phone screen bit for the STAR method tip and use it to answer the "Tell me about a time when..." questions. If you don't have a time when the thing they're asking about has happened, go back to school or any other similar time. Failing that, you can probably make one up. These kinds of questions are 99% bullshit and it isn't like they have any way of verifying what you say. Companies that use these questions think that they get more detail out of those types of questions so they use them.
just for historical reference: the previous interviewing thread

How can I negotiate salary?
Go visit the current (circa 2022) salary negotiation thread

What are some other resources I might want to check out?
Federal Government career thread
Career path advice/"Where to?" thread
Ask A Manager, the best blog for this stuff.


What are exceptions to your rules above?
  • Startups/Technology Jobs -- your resume doesn't matter as long as you have enough buzzwords on it for the recruiter to send you along. From that point, the screenings are all very technical and as long as you know your poo poo technically, you will almost certainly get a job offer out of it. Technical companies do a bad job of caring about anything other than technical skill, so basically none of this thread applies to you.
  • Federal Government -- your resume should be a behemoth that is exhaustive about everything you've done and frankly it bores me just reading about it -- check the federal government thread linked above.
  • Academia -- you need a CV, and I don't have enough alcohol to ever think about those again. Ask your advisor. The entire academic job hunt process is complete bullshit, so be ready for that.
  • Retail/Call Centers (god help you) -- this is the only case where you have permission to physically show up there or to call and harrass people about your application. Both of these types of jobs get so many people in the door that unless you're on the top of their stack, you aren't getting considered. Also, neither of these types of jobs almost ever need resumes.

Should I use a resume review/writing service?
Probably not. If you aren't confident about your resume or don't know how to word your accomplishments or can't cut material, they can help. My personal opinion is that you don't need to waste the money otherwise.

When can I call the hiring manager and ask about my application?
About the fifth of never. If they're into you, they'll call you. See the exception above for retail/call centers.

What are your loving qualifications?
I'm a hiring manager and also have an advanced degree in a related field. I also have extremely relevant work experience I'd not care to tie to my SA name, but that helps give me insight into overall trends in hiring.

Tell me some of your weaknesses.
Give a semi-plausible weakness that is at most tangential to the job and immediately explain how you are mitigating it. Applying to be a receptionist? "I'm pretty good at Word and PowerPoint but making macros in Excel that still takes me longer than I'd like it to. I'm taking a night class/reading a book/practicing to get better, though."

When can I 'follow up' on my application?

seacat posted:

*SOAPBOX ALERT*
There's a notion I keep seeing that "PERSISTENCE WILL GET YOU THE JOB" (translation: if you annoy them enough that means you are the best person for the job because you want it so much and they will hire you!), probably as a relic from the boomer areas where fantastic jobs with pensions and benefits grew on trees. That may true for some niche fields and a small amount of horribly managed companies. For the most part though those days are long, long over. Man, if an employer really wants call you or interview you or fly you out or (yay) offer you, they're generally not going to forget to do it and need a reminder, especially more than one.

Help me, I need something else!
Ask and I may edit these posts to provide more info if it is something that seems common enough. I could go on about any of this for a long time. If there's something you think is missing, comment!

Please don't post your resume in here asking for feedback, unless you promise you have followed everything above. 99% of resume feedback could be an index card with the stuff I posted on it.

Please don't post any PII or any information that could dox you in any resume / CV / etc.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 22:53 on May 3, 2023

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Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008
I'm kinda long-winded, so saving this post in case I decide to talk more or answer more questions later.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

i barely GNU her! posted:

Is this generally true of technology jobs at non-tech companies as well? I've seen mixed advice.

If technology is not the company's main product, you should use the standard techniques. Only if you are applying to a company anyone off the street would classify as "a tech company" would the exception kick in.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

T. J. Eckleburg posted:

First, thank you so much for this thread, I have so much anxiety about job-hunting and this has helped tremendously already. I have a question if you don't mind?


I'm a second-year M.S. student. I want a full-time job, and my program is designed to be night classes only and most of my classmates have full-time jobs or are looking for one. I have a 4.0 in grad school so far and very little work experience, basically one semester-long internship. I've been told by my academic advisor to feature my education prominently on my resume, maybe even include specific information about courses I've taken. Is this good advice? Second, should I put my GPA on my resume? I'm a member of an honor society that only admits people with 4.0s, is just putting that on there enough or should I spell it out?

Thanks so much. :ohdear:

As a hiring manager, grad school GPA is worthless to me, but depending on your specific field education can be more or less important. I would still play the internship up far far more, though. Nobody cares about honor societies and bluntly basically everyone has a 3.9+ grad school GPA so it doesn't communicate any information to me.

several people posted:

startupchat
Don't work for a startup for anything less than market salary and benefits unless you are being given a significant percentage of the company in nondilutable shares (and they'll show you the cap table to prove it) or you are 100% convinced that the company is going to be the next Google (it isn't.) Generally speaking, a startup is a horrible financial option and you will work exploitative hours for the one in a billion chance at a modest payout. Even a "good exit" still is only going to get you around $300K with the standard amounts and valuations of most startups and you have to consider how much more that $300K over 4 years and the increased quality of life, etc. would be worth.

You can choose a startup for connections/resume building/whatever, but just know how you value those in your head and don't let the starry-eyed promises of "WHAT'S COOLER THAN A MILLION DOLLARS BRO???" get in your head.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Shnooks posted:

OP says, "Unless this is your first job out of college, put your education at the end of the resume and emphasize it as little as possible." It's not my real first job out of college, but it's my real first job in the field related to my degree out of college. I graduated in 2012, have been working in an unrelated field since. Should I still put my education on the bottom? I feel that my education is an important factor in this position I'm applying to (administrative work at an art museum).

Edit: Is it also horrible of me to use "industry specific" words? IE: batik vs "rozome" (I studied textiles)

You can emphasize the education if your past jobs have all been *completely* unrelated. Basically, put your best foot forward is the advice -- and for most people their education is actually not their best foot.

You should absolutely use industry specific buzzwords, within reason; they indicate that you have more than just academic knowledge of the area. I'd also be sure to emphasize any projects or organizations or whatever that are related to that field that you have been in (ideally you've been doing/in them since college.)

Also, re: the other GPA posts -- I do consider undergrad GPA as a bit of information if it is on the resume, but I don't think twice if it is not there. Graduate school GPAs are literally worthless, however, which is what the guy I was responding to was asking about.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Quarex posted:

I am not the sort of person who was going to list it on his résumé anyway, but this advice still sounds contradictory for graduate students who have never had real-world experience (I worked for a few years between undergraduate and graduate school, but most of my cohort did not). I imagine someone getting a first job after graduate school would be just as well advised as a recent undergraduate in listing it?

(Also I know this is not the government jobs thread, but keep in mind that the federal government requires you to list it on your résumé when applying for any job through USAJobs.gov, and I imagine they are not the only ones)

Basically everyone in graduate school leaves with a 3.9 or higher. To me, graduate school GPA is not a worthwhile piece of data.

That said, if it is your only accomplishment (you didn't TA or RA or anything relevant in grad school), then of course you should list it, and I don't think it will *hurt* -- I just don't think it will help as much people think it might.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008
^: No, don't mention honor societies. Use that line of your resume for more accomplishments.

(Exception: If you have nothing else to mention.)

Wagoneer posted:

Got an offer today for a job I'm really interested in. There's huge potential to compeltely overhaul the program and I would have a lot of creative control. It requires relocation to a city that is 8 hours away, but my wife and I really like it. Unfortunately, the offer is $0.83. Cost of living there (housing) is 11% more than where I currently am. My previous salary (from a job where I worked about a month) was ~$0.92 and the one before that ~$0.75. I would get a $0.10 signing bonus and they said they give about a 10% annual bonus. Obviously I can't count on the bonus. That's an earned outcome of being good at my job. Market value for this position is higher, but I have a difficult time justifying it. I'm currently in the final stages of some other interviews and I'm sure they will outbid - but they're in cities I don't want to live in.

Their rationale is $0.83 salary + $0.10 signing bonus (moving) + $0.08 (bonus) = $1.01! Great, huh? :v:

How should I present my case for this? This position is pretty high visibility and I DO want to work there... but how often do companies raise their offer by something like 15%? That barely gets me to break even with my last position (it doesn't). Should I come back with $1.00? Will they just laugh at me for that when they came in at $0.83?

I get paid in pennies, by the way.
Tell them it is a pay cut from your last position. Go back with $1 base (call it 'guaranteed recurring' if you want) and expect $0.90.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Dead Pressed posted:

You could call and during the conversation state that you have no availability during those posted hours.

and expect them to tell you to screw off; there are too many people that can work around their hours. From what you've said of the job there's more than enough people who would work when they wanted.

Unfortunately, some lower level jobs are like this. :(

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Ronald McReagan posted:

I recently applied for my first "real" job. I wasn't expecting much to come of it, I just needed incentive to write a resume and start practicing for interviews. But I scored an interview and the panel was apparently very impressed with me. I didn't end up getting the job, I was beaten by someone with 25 years of experience, but now the Chief of Staff of the organization (who was on the panel) has requested a second meeting with me. I don't really know what to expect. Any ideas? Should I treat this like a second interview (suit, copies of resume/business card, etc.)?

Since he was on the interview panel, he doesn't need your resume. Dress similarly to what he was wearing during your interview and be prepared to talk about what you're looking for and to ask him what they are looking for and what they need help with and try to see i there's a mutual match. You can prepare for this as if it were an 'informational interview', and if you google for that, you'll find some advice on what to say and what to do.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Falcon2001 posted:

There was a discussion last page about whether or not posting resumes for design critique is kosher - is that alright or should I follow the OP and stfu?

I'm not anti-critique, I just didn't want the thread to turn into the last one where people who obviously didn't read any of the prior comments shat in their resume that they had spent zero effort and the critiques were always the same.

Go for it as long as you've tried to do what is suggested in the OP; I tried very hard to cover almost all the common criticisms in it. For design, sure, though I'll say in advance my feedback is "I don't care" unless you're applying for a design-relevant position. :)

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Xandu posted:

Email them, and you can do it the same day or the day after.

You'll want to also include some sort of comment about the specific interview you had, so that it is clear you didn't have a pre-canned thank you note. Something like "I especially appreciated your candor in describing a typical day. It sounds like something very exciting to me!" or something -- just to emphasize that you paid attention during the interview.

You should send it as soon as you realistically can since some companies start evaluating people basically immediately -- at my company, most interviewers have entered feedback within 12 hours from the interview.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

C-Euro posted:

Thanks, I thought doing it same-day might sound too desperate but I guess not. I assume I should send a note to everyone who interviews me (I think this interview will be with multiple people)?

E: Would it be better to e-mail each person I interview with a different note, or send the same note out to all of them at once?

Different notes; you talked about different things, and interviewers talk. Sending the same note to all of them is worse than sending no note at all (especially if you say anything beyond the most formulaic things.)

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Shnooks posted:

I think I checked off all the bullet points in the OP, so if it's not too much to ask can someone go over my resume? I'm trying to get a job more related to my degree but something I actually don't have too much experience in. This is my first draft of my resume, so I don't expect it to be pretty.

(url removed)

You should edit this to not include your real name/contact information.

Your skills section should be wiped out and tailored for each particular job you're applying for. The generic statements you have their now are too "telly". You want to show how you have these traits, not just tell people you have them. You also should try hard to tie together your experience into some cohesive story about the jobs in question.

I'm not entirely sure what you want to do from this resume. I'd guess something with fabrics/textiles? In that case, you should move the button company job to the top, and put your current job below that. Yes, I'm aware this is not chronological, but the resume is a sales document and you need to sell.

Remove the non-degree seeking time - there's no reason to have it there, nor is the stuff from the language institute, unless you are trying to specifically demonstrate Japan/Japanese knowledge, in which case you should leave it.

Your tenses don't match in some of your job bullet points. If one is in past tense, they all should be. You also are explaining your duties instead of listing your accomplishments. For the vet job, bullets 1-4 are all worthless. Your title communicates that information. Instead, list how your responsibilities progressed and how your duties have grown. Talk about increased responsibility and trust. Provide some sort of numbers for every bullet point you can. How many calls/day do you answer? How many employees did you train? Stuff like that.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Tojai posted:

I hope this is in the correct thread, as I'm still technically in the interview process.

I've interviewed twice, and my recruiter (employed by this company) called me and told me that I'm a top candidate and I have a job offer pending my drug test and background check.

The drug test is no issue at all, but there's a problem with my background check. I worked overseas in South Korea for two years and the background check people say my employer isn't responding to inquiries. Now they either want pay stubs or IRS records to confirm my employment. I don't have IRS records because the income was not taxable, and I'm desperately searching for pay stubs but it's been years and I've moved back to the United States and some stuff may have gotten lost in the move.

I do have copies of my work visa and my contract as well as documents and materials related to the job. I'm trying to find out if I can get any information from my Korean bank account, but it's been closed for years. Right now I'm just freaking out that they're not going to offer me the position because of this. Am I overreacting? Is this common? I'm going to call my recruiter on Monday and I want to be able to resolve this.

You are supposed to still file American taxes on money you earned overseas (claiming the Foreign Income Tax Credit), so you might want to consult with a tax professional if this work was done fewer than 7 years ago :shobon:

You will need to provide them with someone that works there that can agree you worked there or some other sort of proof. I'd try to get in touch with them (in Korean) and ask if there's someone in English they can talk to, or to get pay stubs/the like from there as well.

Your contract will likely not suffice, but if you have it plus a passport stamped with entries and exits that correspond to that amount of time... maybe. The company you're applying to will have to holisitically decide whether you're worth taking the risk on vs. them hiring someone that to them has a shady mysterious 2-year gap in employment.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Shnooks posted:

Thats kind of how I felt. Thanks.

Edit: Is it bad to send it as a .pdf? I feel weird sending it as a .doc or whatever because of all the tables I use.

Send a pdf

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Gweenz posted:

I am an IT guy, currently working on a new resume. A brief rundown of my last 15 years or so goes like this:

On my resume, what is the best way to emphasize these experiences without making it look like a giant career dark-age?

Nobody cares. Sorry to be blunt, but I would immediately stop reading as soon as I got to 2011.

If you insist on putting it on there, put them all in one small section of "Other Experience" and give them each a single line. You should be spending the vast majority of your resume on your recent, relevant experience for the field, then talk about the newly-acquired education and credentials, then if there is any room left, squeeze in your other jobs.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

in_cahoots posted:

I had a second interview yesterday at a tech company that went pretty well- it was more of a behavioral interview with my future coworkers than a technical one, and the recruiter said they'd make an offer within 24 hours.

It's been 24 hours with no call. Obviously I won't call him tonight, but would it be appropriate to call him/ send him a message tomorrow? I don't want to sound too pushy.

Call tomorrow, it's fine. Internal recruiters should have a very good sense of their company timelines and are (generally) not bullshitting you.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

ONEMANWOLFPACK posted:

A recruiter can't make an offer, the hiring manager makes the offer. A recruiter is a middle-person, and inserts themselves as a go between. Them saying you will get an offer in 24 hours is worthless because the actual deciders need to see and meet and approve budget. Internal ones know more than external ones, but that doesn't raise the threshold by a whole lot. External recruiters earn by placement, so they work harder to actually sell their candidates to fit positions. Internal recruiters have their own metrics and whatnot but it is not the same as an external agency, and some internal recruiters are just straight salary don't give a poo poo if they place people at all types.

This is mostly false at literally every company I've worked at; internal recruiters absolutely can make offers. (It's more traditional for the HM to do it, and they often do for high-value candidates even at places where the recruiter normally does it, though.) Yes, it's after other people have decided, but realistically, at any company big enough to be using recruiters at all, the salaries etc. are preset and generally at most the recruiters and managers have a quick chat to confirm where in the salary band someone falls. They also know the hiring manager's timeline and so are often qualified to make pretty accurate timeline estimates.

Internal recruiters also generally have far more aggressive metrics surrounding time to place, time from decision to offer, etc. - external recruiters are also very aggressive about these things but I've found that 'deciders' at the company level tend to drag their feet with external recruiters, because they're "not on the same team" and external recruiters can't just walk by your desk and go "Hey, so did you want to hire Johnson?"

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

in_cahoots posted:

I got the offer! The recruiter is the one who called me and will email the terms. It turns out somebody was out sick so it just took them an extra day to regroup.

Great! Now negotiate your salary. :)

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

neogeo0823 posted:

I'm having a bit of trouble properly wording and quantifying a few of the things on my resume.

At one of my previous jobs, we had a problem with having too many open box items on the shelves. I managed to come up with a system of advertising the open box items that helped to sell roughly 90% of our stock within a month. How would I word that to make it sound right?

As for that job that I've been having trouble finding accomplishments to list for, I've got a total of 4 now:
  • Completed company training in forklift operation in June.
  • Upheld safety and quality standards; never experienced an accident or near miss.
  • Held #1 spot within department for 2 ongoing sales contests.
  • cross trained in 6 separate departments.
How do I go about making that last one seem more impressive? Do I really need to? The place I worked at generally had people trained in only one or two departments, so having more than half the store under my belt is decently impressive, I suppose. What about the others, do those seem fine? Do I need more than those 4? Am I over thinking this?

So put in things that help people who don't know your company compare. Drop forklift operaion, unless you're applying for a job where that matters. The other stuff is more impressive.

* Developed marketing plan to increase sell-through of stale inventory that resulted in 90% of it being sold within a month

Try to come up with some sort of recognition for your safety adherence. Did you get an award, or recognition, or something like that?

* Ranked as top salesperson for X months for 2 separate sales contests [and very briefly describe what you were selling and to who]

* Took initiative to be cross-trained in 6 different departments, representing over 50% of the departments available.

Things like that, where people can place your numbers in context, can be helpful if you think your accomplishments sound diminutive by themselves. Good luck!

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

THE MACHO MAN posted:

So for cover letters, I read some mixed stuff about length. I'm shooting for a half page/250-ish words. I figure I've got a very short window before they decide to trash it or not. Do I bother putting contact info at the bottom since it is gonna be on the resume itself

If you're physically mailing it (for some ungodly reason), yes. Otherwise, no.

Half a page is a good ballpark length.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

THE MACHO MAN posted:

Thanks!

Another quick question: jobs that ask for salary requirements on the cover letter.

Do I even bother wasting space with a number but saying how I'd be open to negotiation, kind of like what the op recommends in negotiation? Or do I just straight up say salary: $65,000 or whatever it is I am asking?

Also, someone mentioned that on the ones that request it on the cover letter, just put: see resume and stick it there. Is this a shifty little tactic that is gonna piss off some HR intern and get me garbage canned?

Also another, but this would be something brought up in negotiation. A couple people (one in HR, another who is successful and her mother is a payroll manager) insist that I was underpaid at my last place and to bump up that number come negotiation. They both said it is illegal to ask my previous employer or me for proof of my salary. Kinda hesitant about this, but job hunting in general just stresses me the hell out. Is this a bad idea?

Don't provide them at all. It isn't an appropriate time in the process to demand your requirements before they even start screening you. If you are carefully screening jobs to which you apply, and you know that you are a good fit (and you're not carpetbombing), they'll contact you whether you put a number on the letter or not. If they do exclude you because you wouldn't give away your negotiating position before the negotiations started, you probably didn't want to work there anyway.

If you absolutely feel the need to provide something, you can give a total comp number and just say "In order to feel comfortable leaving my current position I'd require total compensation of $X. I am flexible on the breakdown of this amount between benefits, base salary, etc."

It is absolutely not illegal for them to ask for proof of your past salary. They can, and a lot of the shady lovely places that demand salaries at the start of the process *do*. If they don't verify with your old employer, they make you bring in a W-2 and rescind the offer if you can't explain any discrepancies.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

neogeo0823 posted:

Thanks for the advice. As far as the IT =/= job experience thing, I've been doing freelance IT work for years. Mostly basic stuff, building systems, antivirus, maintenance work, etc, with a bit of networking and such thrown in here and there. My actual official jobs that pay me a weekly paycheck have nothing to do with IT, sadly, and it's a field I'm looking to get into now.

How would I go about adding that to my resume, if I should do so at all? In fact, in a more general sense, how does one even go about tailoring a resume to a career field they have no formal experience in?

Make a separate entry for your freelance work. Talk about how many clients you have helped, what kind of things your responsible for, how much you've grown that business.

Freelancing is great in this industry because it shows that you have initiative (rare among neckbeards) and at least some degree of people skills. It also provides you a convenient place to list your tech skills and your work ethic that isn't the big orange box.

I refrained from giving a critique because I didn't want to be Debbie Downer on you, but you should definitely emphasize your freelance work and significantly de-emphasize the time you spent at BOB.

Edit:

quote:

I really don't suggest anything like the bolded part. It offset by the the fact that this is academic and part-time, and it's highly unlikely your contract won't allow you to leave, but you'll still be burning bridges and pissing people off. I'm guessing from your previous posts that this is a paid TA position for a college or university. I spent a few semesters TAing before going to industry and both times someone left before their contract was up it hurt pretty bad.
Meh, nobody cares. You've napalmed your bridges with wherever you rescind your acceptance from, but it is highly unlikely to ever affect you again, unless you are in an extremely incestuous industry or that particular hiring manager moves to another job you want somewhere down the line.

Yes, it's a dickbag thing to do, yes it is going to make your name mud over there, yes it might screw you over later, but ultimately it's just business. Better offers come along and you take them. They'd throw you on the street in a microsecond if it would make the stock price go up a dime; don't think you 'owe them' out of some sort of bizarre sense of unrequited loyalty.

Bisty Q. fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 20, 2013

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Bombtrack posted:

Anything to keep in mind when applying for a job in a different city? I'm worried recruiters are going to skip over my resume once they see I live half way across the country.

Put down a local address or no physical address; be prepared to explain why you can't come in for interviews on short notice ("I'm currently out of the area" isn't exactly a lie, is it...) -- realize you're going to have to pay, at your own expense, to travel to these interviews; relocation assistance is minimal to nonexistent and once they find out you're in a different area they may not be keen to help you by giving you more than 2 weeks of lead time, etc.

If at all possible, move there first then get the job, but if that's not possible, be prepared for the process to suck. It's not fun.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Captain Trips posted:

How's this look, guys?



I don't recall the last time I read a quality resume that didn't credit DeviantART.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

C-Euro posted:

Well, tomorrow's Friday and I haven't heard back from the Wednesday job. That interview was set up by a recruiter, I last spoke to her on Monday and she said she was trying to follow up with the manager that I interviewed with. As a hiring person, who do you recommend I call first tomorrow- the recruiter or the manager? I last spoke to the manager last Friday, if that makes a difference.

Manager. But it's the day before labor day; nobody is going to be there.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008
^^: You can certainly say something like "After looking more closely at the job description, I think it would make more sense for total comp to be around $X" but you are probably screwed.

Just The Facts posted:

Is it in good practice to call companies (when possible) after filling out an application online? I just call to make sure it went through even though I got the confirmation email just to let them know I'm interested and ask if there is anything else I can do.

No No No No No No No, do not do this.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008
It's actually really common for technology jobs, although your recruiter should have told you to expect it.

Now you know and you can do a better job next time!

The cheating allegations; well... some companies hire dicks that would say things like that. You dodged a bullet by not moving forward.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Chumpion posted:

I'm gonna assume this applies here, apologies if it doesn't.

I've opted to go for an in house communications role coming up in the next week, I work in a busy gallery and it would be a temporary promotion above my status. It's just an eight week placement but would definitely look swish on my resume. Of course due to it being in house they already have some of my job performance and cv on file. However the problem is I recieved this email this morning.

'Hi Michael

I have been emailing around the people who have applied for this to ask
for a paragraph on why they want the job and what they think they would
bring to it.


Thanks
Beth'.

I'm genuinely stumped by what to write, I know full well how to write a cover letter but if it's in house a lot of the rules I apply there won't be applicable, so I'm looking for advice on how best to communicate myself in an interdepartmental job competition where everyone knows each other and how to make yourself stand out from your colleagues.

Well, it's pretty simple: 2 sentences on why you want the job and 2 sentences on what you would bring to it. Do you have past experience in communications? Have you volunteered or done anything in the past that's even tangentially related? Why (other than "it would look good my resume") did you express interest? What about the role is exciting?

You just want to sell yourself here. I'd structure it something like this:

I want to be the Assistant To The Chocolate Teapot Maker because [reason]. I also would look forward to [reaching out to patrons/(something)] to expand my skill set. In the past, I [something related]. Finally, I'm very motivated to [provide the best patron experience/inform my peers/some other suck-upy sounding thing].

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

SectumSempra posted:

Is it too super duper forward and anxious to send a thank you letter for a 5 minute interview for an internship position?

Nope, just say something useful in it. (Mention something they said, or something you're particularly excited about, etc.) Don't send a proforma bullshit one.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Zaftig posted:

Is there a good way to list temp jobs on a resume? I work in a theme park where seasonal promotions are the norm, so while being a supervisor for two months looks normal here, I worry about how to phrase my experience if I want to show my resume elsewhere in the future. I don't want it to look like I got demoted, but the seasonal positions are also important experience.

eta: I have my experience arranged by company, with a bullet list of the different jobs under each company. Will it be fine just to clarify that I was promoted for a seasonal thing in the description of the responsibilities?
I'd list it like this:

Happy Fun Time Adventure Land
- Balloon Wrangler (August 2013-present)
  - 1 of X balloon wranglers selected to stay for off-peak season
- Balloon Wranglin' Supervisor (June 2013-August 2013)
  - Wrangled 11 other wranglers to provide wranglin' coverage for summer peak season
- Balloon Wrangler (January 2013-June 2013)
  - Wrangled more balloons than any other wrangler
- Apprentice Balloon Wrangler (2012)
  - etc.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

bytebark posted:

Is it ever advisable to abbreviate time spent in a certain industry on a Linkedin profile and/or resume?

Sure, do whatever you want. There's no resume police that are going to demand you exhaustively list everything. Same with LinkedIn, although sometimes it is desirable to be more detailed on LI just so that people can get a fuller picture of the different industries you've been in (which can help if you're applying to work at a good company - good hiring managers value diversity of experience.)

You can present yourself in both of those places however you feel will make you the most marketable. If are you truly changing to a completely unrelated industry and can't think of any even tangential relation in the industries, sure, consolidate away.

signalnoise posted:

Everything before that is school. I'm currently in a masters program for management of information systems. I am interested in jobs in the EDI field as that's the most directly marketable skill I have. If anyone could help me out with figuring out what anyone would give a poo poo about please help me I am basically hopeless in a job that will not let me advance anymore
I just wouldn't list the other stuff then. List your current experience as an EDI analyst and your education, and go heavy on accomplishments/professional societies/other stuff you do to illustrate your interest in the field. I assume EDI has a trade organization or... something. Join some LinkedIn groups, market yourself that way; that kind of thing.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Sivlan posted:

I'm curious what the expert resume writers thoughts are on using inflated position titles on your resume. These are especially common when working at start-ups/small businesses.

What I mean is, take the situation where you have a person hired by a small 10-person company to do their marketing. Maybe they sell widgets locally. This guy comes in and helps them advertise so they sell 20% more widgets. They give him the job-title of "Vice President of Marketing". Should this guy use that title when listing the job on his resume? Unless you have been at executive levels in other jobs, it feels to me like it'd be sorely out of place and raise eyebrows even though, in this example and probably many real-life ones, they guy did the core job well and there's no reason he should need to downplay his contributions.

It depends on where you're going. In financial services, VP is basically an entry-level title, so nobody's going to bat an eye at it. In most tech companies, VP is a difficult title to earn and equates to an extremely senior position. So you kind of have to read the company you're going to.

The way I would handle it is to list your actual title, then in the bullets to clarify the scope and authority level. So something like:

- Vice President, Marketing
- Lead local-area marketing efforts for 1-person marketing team to increase widget sales from $X to $Y in 1 year
- etc.

Then in the interview, you can clarify that you know the title is inflated and you want more responsibility or whatever.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

corkskroo posted:

Also, what are the thoughts on adding a "leadership" or soft skills section to your list of skills? If you're applying for leadership type jobs just listing which adobe programs you're proficient in doesn't seem adequate.

Why do you have a list of skills in the first place? Every hiring manager knows that section is "things I've ever heard of or maybe one time thought about doing."

You can't tell leadership, you have to show it through your accomplishments and summary.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008
So basically the employer is required to make "reasonable accommodations" for you. You'd need to talk to an employment lawyer for state of the art but forcing a company to provide your transportation to/from client sites is probably not a reasonable accommodation.

Re: your 2nd paragraph, what would probably work best is to just bring it up on your first day. "Just so you know, I have a pretty severe near-vision problem but I can work around it by XYZ." I wouldn't mention it in the interview or offer negotiation processes unless you require some sort of non-reasonable accommodation to do the job in question, in which case you have to let them know so they can make it.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

DustingDuvet posted:

It depends on your country and industry. If you are in America for example, you should create a separate references document to send to an employer only when they request them. However, sometimes there are exceptions like in academia. Otherwise do not make any mention of references on your resume. On the other hand, in certain countries in Europe for example, you can list the actual references at the bottom of your resume.

Yeah, sometimes companies demand them in advance. Generally speaking, they should still be on a separate document -- even if you submit them both at the same time, you want to optimize your resume for just sales of yourself and have the references be a nice extra. Unless, of course, otherwise instructed.

Makorz posted:

I was mostly wondering because I've heard conflicting advice about it. Hell, even the two things you just quoted can be interpreted as contradictory.
Those aren't contradictory. You should never put "References available on request" because everyone knows that and it's a waste of a line. You also shouldn't put the actual references because it isn't necessary until the end of the process, not the beginning.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

signalnoise posted:

How unseriously will I be taken if I mention I am a director for an anime convention? I recently got correspondence from resume2interviews and they took that into consideration on other skills or something. What I wrote is that I have been doing it 10 years, and have built the department from a small 1 room operation with under 10 staff to a 50 staffer, 5 room department in a convention that this year got 18000 people and received no complaints from management. Does the subject matter here matter? I figure if it's being taken objectively, it's decent management experience for both projects and staffing, but somehow I feel like it's risky putting it on a resume.

Everyone that reads your resume will laugh at you unless you are applying for an event management type of position. Even then, I'd try to be as nonspecific as possible with the subject matter of the convention.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

lol internet. posted:

God christ, I am now unemployed because I decided to move across the country. It's been about 2-3 weeks and I shotgun applied to a ton of places and only got one reply. I'm not sure if my resume just sucks or I just have bad luck. Although I'm using the same resume I've basically used for the last 8 years with updates.
Stop shotgun applying; we can smell it and we delete them. Try to tailor your resume to the jobs you want and don't be desperate.

quote:

edit: When I did a phone interview, a guy asked me how much KiloBytes are in 1GB. What the gently caress lol. I actually didn't know that.
:what:

Hopefully you were applying for some technology job, and really dude - you couldn't at least get to the components? 1024 MB in a GB, 1024 KB in an MB, you don't need to do the math in your head but still. Hell, even if you just said 1000/1000 and got to a million, that would've been fine too. The interviewer's not going to have some checklist of "did they say exactly 1048576"; they're looking for "around a million" or that you at least tried to figure it out.

Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Cruxxed Up posted:

A job in my very-limited field has opened up in my hometown, so I'm very excited. As luck would have it, I know someone fairly high-up in the department from when I interviewed him for my MA thesis in 2011. The job itself is a city government position so there's an official application through their website (which is glitchy as hell), but I was wondering if it would be acceptable to also send my cover letter and resume directly to his work email (it's posted publicly on the website) and re-introduce myself?

Sure, but don't expect any special treatment; it's a government position and they likely can't do anything. Even if they could, you shouldn't expect any favors from this guy because it doesn't sound like the kind of relationship where the guy can speak to your work quality or anything like that.

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Bisty Q.
Jul 22, 2008

Elysiume posted:

I currently have interview requests from two companies. They're in the same city, and that city happens to be 3000 miles away from me. Would it be acceptable for me to contact the companies and look into getting the interviews on back-to-back days? I have my courses to worry about, and traveling across the company is a fairly serious time investment. Ideally I could do something like fly out on day 1, interview on day 2, interview again on day 3, and take a red-eye back on day 3. However, I'd need a 3rd night at the hotel (so I don't need to take my luggage to the second interview), and one of the companies wouldn't be paying for anything.

What's the best way to approach this?

Once one company pays, email the other one and say "I will be in CITY NAME for a personal trip on DATE and would be available to interview for CHOCOLATE TEAPOT MAKER at TIME. If that fits with your schedule, I'd be happy to make time to visit your office at that point."

Make it completely low-stress on their part. You may have to finagle with the paying company to extend the trip a day (say you have family in the area or something, maybe) if necessary. You'll have to pay for the extra hotel night yourself.

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