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What is so difficult about making a 40k MMO? Make Planetside 2 with a 40k skin, boom, 40k MMO.
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Jun 13, 2013 17:18
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I dunno, if everyone is on an even playing field after buying in, then I'm not so sure it would be P2W. It would be just like something like GW2 (upfront cost and then micro transactions), plus a completely free, limited trial. It all depends on what "buying in" entails. I admit the idea could go horribly wrong, but there's still time for community-wide whining to convince them to take another direction. Things are more set in jello than stone at this point. I really hope they can stumble their way into something great. Also: quote:the core team for Eternal Crusade is actually made up of former Funcom Montreal developers quite familiar with the challenges of working with MMOs. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/13/interview-behaviour-on-warhammer-40k-eternal-crusade/#more-156334 So...maybe that's good? I never played a Funcom game.
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Jun 13, 2013 20:01
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Funcom makes terrible MMOs. They got lucky with Anarchy Online and were completely, inexplicably blind as to why it succeeded. Their entire career post-AO was trying out completely random poo poo and then asking the world at large "Was this it?" So no, it's not exactly inspiring to hear that, although we can always hope that it was just management. Also the Free-to-play Ork Boyz sounded totally rad to me until I read you couldn't even advance all the way up that tree without paying. The perfect free to play environment lets F2P players reach the same level of power progression as P2P players, but affords the P2P players a wider variety of options. Hell, just loving copy Planetside 2 from top to bottom, the work is already done for you, guys, quit trying to reinvent the wheel like every loving 40k game that crashes and burns 
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Jun 13, 2013 20:20
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http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/954/feature/7493/Warhammer-40000-Eternal-Crusade-There-Is-Only-WAR.html Here is an interview Dark Angels, Iron Warriors, Eldar and Orks. Free-to-play is Orks only, expected majority. 5 or so Ork players needed to kill 1 Space Marine. Campaigns last 3 months, and each new campaign is an entirely new planet to fight on. Looks like each faction will have 5 or more careers. Open beta in 18 months
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Jun 13, 2013 21:09
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Why the hell Iron Warriors, the most boring of Legions. Here's to hoping for lots of customization options and never learning from past mistakes. quote:if you decide to listen to your Order’s leadership (again, elected by the players) Has there ever been 'factions led by players' system that hasn't been terrible?
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Jun 13, 2013 22:46
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Puistokemisti posted:Why the hell Iron Warriors, the most boring of Legions Wider appeal with going towards a chaos undivided legion and to be fair, honsou is an alright character. I still would have preferred the loyalist faction of space pups and thousand sons scenario but maybe they don't want to mess with the setting *too* much
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Jun 13, 2013 22:54
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New idea for a free to play race: Imperial Guard. As a F2P player you play an ordinary grunt. Ten grunts equals one space marine and players who have unlocked Commisars may execute any free to play Imperial Guard for a short term buff. The perfect incentive to get free to play scrubs to pay us. I expect a letter from the dev team asking me to work for them any moment now.
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Jun 13, 2013 22:58
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Dark angels is pretty novel at least. Don't think any other warhammer 40k game has used them as the main space marines.
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Jun 13, 2013 22:58
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Puistokemisti posted:Why the hell Iron Warriors, the most boring of Legions. EVE does it relatively well, I think. And doesn't TERA have some kind of crazy politics system? KFJ fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jun 13, 2013 |
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Jun 13, 2013 22:58
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Their F2P alternative is incredibly funny honestly. I think having Space Marines in these games is just dumb because 1 Space Marine is a lot buffer than some Ork Boy in the lore. So to make space marines feel that powerfully they are literraly taking the F2P players and making them cannon fodder for the masses. I just hope paying customers can play an Ork that is just as powerful as any space marine. Also creamed myself over the commissar idea.
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Jun 14, 2013 00:00
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Harabeck posted:http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/13/interview-behaviour-on-warhammer-40k-eternal-crusade/#more-156334 If this is what I think it is, then that is the Funcom Montreal studio that got closed down a few months ago after a series of layoffs, and "restructuring". It seems a number of them are now on this project. That Montreal studio was the main location of the devs of The Secret World also so what little hopes for this I had, I now have them slightly higher as TSW is a fantastic game and it warms my heart knowing those devs found a new job. But as lore friendly as the f2p model is, it seems horrible for the player. I see the f2pers just quitting outright rather than paying.
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Jun 14, 2013 01:20
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Killsion posted:If this is what I think it is, then that is the Funcom Montreal studio that got closed down a few months ago after a series of layoffs, and "restructuring". It seems a number of them are now on this project. That Montreal studio was the main location of the devs of The Secret World also so what little hopes for this I had, I now have them slightly higher as TSW is a fantastic game and it warms my heart knowing those devs found a new job. But as lore friendly as the f2p model is, it seems horrible for the player. I see the f2pers just quitting outright rather than paying. Yeah, depending on which devs are now part of Eternal Crusade, this could be a good thing as pretty much all the good devs were in Montreal. There were some really spectacular devs as part of Funcom Montreal (which made it such a what the gently caress moment when they cut it).
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Jun 14, 2013 01:36
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I want to think that the idea of the F2P faction being weaker and taking multiple people is cool, but I really have a feeling that they are going to have a population problem. I can't imagine playing as an Ork, I'd have to purchase the game just because that would be so miserable. I have a feeling a lot of people will do the same thing. Most of the reason F2P models work so well is that people feel like they can buy some cosmetic items and still be competitive. With this game, they are outright not going to be competitive without purchasing, so I feel like they'll either purchase or choose not to play.
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Jun 14, 2013 02:29
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This makes me think of an expanded version of LOTRO's 'monster play' scheme... which I'm pretty sure never really took off either. People will flock to free-to-play games. That's given. They'll also run right the Hell off at the first whiff of having to spend money to get ahead or perceived unfairness, and five-to-one odds baked in is not going to do much at all for retention.
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Jun 14, 2013 02:45
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1stGear posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaviour_Interactive I see you were impressed by Dorito's Crash Course 2 as well.
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Jun 14, 2013 03:54
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Kaizer88 posted:Dark angels is pretty novel at least. Don't think any other warhammer 40k game has used them as the main space marines. I hope I can be a Terminator. Or at least a Techmarine.
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Jun 14, 2013 04:21
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$100 for a Necron arm and you can literally be Honsou
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Jun 14, 2013 07:15
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SOME MORE
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KFJ posted:EVE does it relatively well, I think. If by 'relatively well' you mean a never ending wailing and gnashing of teeth, with Stalinist dictatorships controlling huge portions of the game world with an iron fist, then yes.
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Jun 14, 2013 07:53
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Broken Knees Club posted:If by 'relatively well' you mean a never ending wailing and gnashing of teeth, with Stalinist dictatorships controlling huge portions of the game world with an iron fist, then yes. So it should be entirely in-line with the 40k aesthetic.
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Jun 14, 2013 08:46
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BombiTheZombie posted:New idea for a free to play race: Imperial Guard. As a F2P player you play an ordinary grunt. Ten grunts equals one space marine and players who have unlocked Commisars may execute any free to play Imperial Guard for a short term buff. I'm sure they aren't actually going to have only one of the sides have a free class. Space marines will probably get IG allies, Eldar will have guardians, and Chaos will have cultists/traitor guardsmen. Having ALL of the free players stacked on a single side would be pretty retarded, is all.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:25
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Lassitude posted:Having ALL of the free players stacked on a single side would be pretty retarded, is all. Well this is exactly what they said they are going to do and pretty much everyone has agreed it is retarded. I seriously doubt it will go through like this though if they really want to see $$$ and Games Workshop loves money.
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Jun 14, 2013 17:41
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KFJ posted:EVE does it relatively well, I think. And doesn't TERA have some kind of crazy politics system? Broken Knees Club posted:If by 'relatively well' you mean a never ending wailing and gnashing of teeth, with Stalinist dictatorships controlling huge portions of the game world with an iron fist, then yes. Yeah, the dozens of people who have podded me because they got hosed by GoonFleet and I used to be a member would probably argue against the EVE system as well.
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Jun 14, 2013 18:24
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Rujo King posted:Yeah, the dozens of people who have podded me because they got hosed by GoonFleet and I used to be a member would probably argue against the EVE system as well. No loving kidding. Some russian dude podded me once and i quit for like 2 years. Then I ran into him when i came back to the game so I jihad ran him while he was afk in jita in a pod for the bitter revenge.
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Jun 14, 2013 20:19
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The only F2P option being low level ork boys sounds hilariously perfect for large scale PvP matches. You've got the premium player space marines decked out in whatever cash shop gear/buffs that will be available, vs a massive horde of f2p ork players that have no idea what they're doing, equipped with the worst possible weapons and armor, loudly shouting insults at everything around them, and picking fights with their own team more than the enemy.
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Jun 14, 2013 21:22
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1stGear posted:What is so difficult about making a 40k MMO? Make Planetside 2 with a 40k skin, boom, 40k MMO. A customer's wallet is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded. In other words, lovely companies like to milk their customers for every red cent. And gently caress innovation if it means we have to spend even something as paltry as $1000 more on development (in their multi million dollar blockbuster game) paying someone to do something new outside the genre standards if it isn't going to make the company tons of money. They can just use the brand name to pull in sales instead. This is part of what tends to gently caress licensed Warhammer games most of the time.  Seriously though. What the gently caress? The population is going to be massively hosed if that's the way they're going. Even if they have a free class for every side it's probably going to be a massive clusterfuck of rage quits and whining a month or so in. I look forward to hearing about the local chaos space marine guild named "YOLO Emperor" deciding to corpse camp everyone in an area who isn't a paid subscriber for twelve hours straight. Which in turn will lead to horrible forum topic megathreads and lots of rage quitting from F2P players who simply can't progress high enough to take them out. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 21:31
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It makes sense in a horrific manner because of how many people wont pay a cent into a game, making for a horde. Thats being said its a really lovely idea, luckily they said it now so people can tell them they are stupid and make it better.
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Jun 14, 2013 21:44
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Archonex posted:Even if they have a free class for every side it's probably going to be a massive clusterfuck of rage quits and whining a month or so in. I look forward to hearing about the local chaos space marine guild named "YOLO Emperor" deciding to corpse camp everyone in an area who isn't a paid subscriber for twelve hours straight. Which in turn will lead to horrible forum topic megathreads and lots of rage quitting from F2P players who simply can't progress high enough to take them out. We don't know how the game works though. It could be a game that relies upon matchmaking, and is more like World of Tanks than anything else. If that were the case, then like World of Tanks, all they need to do is make sure that the number of F2P players per team is roughly even, just like how WoT makes sure that there are roughly even numbers of top tier tanks per team, per game. Honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it plays more like Battlefield 3 meets Space Marine than Planetside 2. It kind of sounds like that's how it's going to work, too, with spaceships being player lobbies and "picking an area to attack" being code for selecting a game type and setting map preferences.
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Jun 14, 2013 21:49
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I have a feeling the "War" is going to work like Global Agenda's Faction war thing where there is a Planet and a bunch of Hexes and squads form up to assault a Hex and the owner has to defend for a certain time. You earn points/resources by holding territory which can be used to add defenses to your HEX just like in GA. If this is how the game ends up its going to be a giant rear end pass for me because gently caress that.
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Jun 14, 2013 22:15
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Lassitude posted:We don't know how the game works though. It could be a game that relies upon matchmaking, and is more like World of Tanks than anything else. If that were the case, then like World of Tanks, all they need to do is make sure that the number of F2P players per team is roughly even, just like how WoT makes sure that there are roughly even numbers of top tier tanks per team, per game. Possibly. But given how insanely overpowered the classes that are pay to win are likely to be i'd put my money on it being a balancing nightmare. And that's before you count population issues. Given how popular they are, my money is on release day for this game looking more like Space Marines Online. I mean, five freebie players versus one paid player in terms of power output is a recipe for disaster. Unless they have some sort of hardcapped TF2 style "You can only have so many classes on the battlefield at a time." sort of system, I don't see it working out to anyone's benefit. If they don't have something like that, then they risk having everyone on one side showing up on day one of release as space marines, warbosses, or farseers and just loving everything that isn't a paid player. Which is a recipe for a failed Warhammer Online style launch, where one faction just dominates the other due to inherent gameplay and population imbalances. But even then, if they do have class capping then you've essentially screwed over your paying playerbase if they can't get into popular matches/fights/whatever. Which is never a good idea for a company that wants to have the money to develop a game in any significant way beyond its release state. Their current proposed system seems like a lose-lose situation no matter what sort of implementation they go with to me. Either way, color me skeptical until we learn more. This seems like they're taking some of the ideas from DM, Global Agenda, and Planetside and dumbing them down instead of expanding on concepts that were introduced or elaborated on there. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jun 14, 2013 |
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Jun 14, 2013 23:29
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One solution would be: 1) the number of space marines and the other super powerful classes is veryl imited 2) paying players can queue up to play a space marine 3) as soon as a space marine dies the first player in the queue can choose to respawn as a space marine 4) if you die as a space marine you'll respawn as a regular soldier or whatever and can queue up again
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Jun 14, 2013 23:50
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:One solution would be: So you pay to be a space marine and get to play once a week?
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Jun 15, 2013 00:33
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Broken Knees Club posted:So you pay to be a space marine and get to play once a week? More like 5 min every 30 min or something like thst. But yes.
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Jun 15, 2013 00:37
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:More like 5 min every 30 min or something like thst. But yes. How is that anything but worse?
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Jun 15, 2013 00:55
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Archonex posted:Possibly. But given how insanely overpowered the classes that are pay to win are likely to be i'd put my money on it being a balancing nightmare. And that's before you count population issues. Given how popular they are, my money is on release day for this game looking more like Space Marines Online. They don't need to be insanely overpowered. What the BE guys said, with a 5x power level, that isn't too crazy in the right context. I mean, what if the game is a 32 v. 32 setup like Battlefield 3, where you take points, on some maps have vehicles, and so on? And what if the matchmaker keeps the number of elite classes balanced between the teams, and caps them at 3 or so per team? I think Planetside 2's ratio of free players vs. people who've spent money on the game is something like 10:1 according to an interview Smedly gave a while ago. In that case, the paid classes become kinda like important team captains or squad leaders, but if one of them runs off alone they'd still get hosed by either a handful of the 29 enemy players who aren't paid classes, or by a single one of the paid classes who has a bit of backup. For certain game modes their business model wouldn't be terrible, but the game would basically have to enforce balance to prevent 20 paying people from simply roaming around in a group and murdering everyone. And that would mean a matchmaker which auto-balances teams. e: To continue the BF3 analogy, what you'd be getting in that case is something like people who spawn as helicopters or tanks on the vehicle maps. They're powerful things that an individual (free) player is going to want to run away from in most circumstances, and attack from sneaky angles and such, but even though tanks and helicopters are powerful, they aren't going to win the game on their own. Lassitude fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 15, 2013 |
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Jun 15, 2013 01:05
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Narrowurethra posted:Wider appeal with going towards a chaos undivided legion and to be fair, honsou is an alright character. Games Workshop actually has really tight control on the setting IP in their licensed games. Every art asset and the story needs to get past their internal grognards. They take it surprisingly serious for a company that once made Bloodbowl.
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Jun 15, 2013 01:15
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I hope the melee combat is a bit more complex than most shooters. Im thinking of something like Chivalry has.
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Jun 15, 2013 01:34
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According to the Wikipedia article, Behavior Interactive was previously named Artificial Mind and Movement, or A2M Not a good sign.
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Jun 15, 2013 07:10
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Ixjuvin posted:40k is old, huge and wacky enough for there to be precedent for almost any stunt they could pull barring like... Marine and Dark Eldar fistbumps. Well if I'm remembering correctly the Blood Angels already did buddy up with the 3rd edition Necrons to fight tyranids together so really anything is possible at this point.
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Jun 15, 2013 08:32
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Well we only have 17 months, 29 days until we can see the fail or success of open beta. Either way it is a 40k game so it can't be that bad right? Right?
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Jun 15, 2013 09:06
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A friend told me about this today. I initially was worried when he said it isn't Relic. Now I'm tabling this game all-together after noticing it's the loving Naughty Bear dev...
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Jun 15, 2013 09:24
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