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Yet Another Visa Question: I'm doing my first HK Z (Employment) visa run soon, and apart from being all nervous about the prospect of failure and being stranded in an expensive city without much cash in my account, I've got a couple of questions that don't seem to be covered in the various stickied links, and/or may have changed since the guides were written. Any info would be gratefully received! First off, basic info: I'm a British citizen, I'm working for a poo poo-but-legit company (the 'poo poo' bit is leaving me to sort my visa out), so I've got the necessary documents for a Z visa. 1: The various guides I can find are pretty old (~2011 vintage), and nowadays there's official statements saying things like "You need to go back to your home country to get a Z visa", but as far as I can tell, no-one actually does this. Is there something specific I need to do to avoid that regulation, or does it just get ignored most of the time? 2: What are my chances of actually applying for the visa myself without an agent? Or should I just man up and pay out for CTS or something? 3: Speaking of which, has anyone got recent prince information from CTS about Z-visa cost for someone on the rich-country list? (US, UK, etc)
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Oct 24, 2014 06:18
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 12:05 |
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If I could go back in time a couple of months, that is just the advice I would give myself, but sadly this lack-of-helpfulness coincidentally materialised about 10 days before my current visa runs out, and about eight days before my flight to HK. :-/ So, I figure getting a work visa + reaidency permit with my current company, hunting down something better, *then* telling them to screw off might be the better plan... But yeah. Any thoughts on unassisted visa applications for noobs? EDIT: Yes, I'm in China on an X visa, trying to go legal now. Atopian fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 08:51
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Thanks for the info and links everyone! I found out today that my invitation paperwork does specify "Hong Kong SAR", which is a good sign. I hope. As has been pointed out, this whole episode isn't a great indicator of my employer's suitability to be, well, my employer. :-S In response to the other question: I'm based in Kunshan, near Shanghai, and I'll be in HK from the 27th to the 29th of October (next week). I hope. If I'm there longer due to a 'hilarious' paperwork problem, then it'll be cheap-rear end cardboard-bowl-noodle o'clock...
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Oct 24, 2014 13:27
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Ack! Hmm, OK, this is where I think very hard very fast. Thank you for the heads-up. At a slight tangent, which will hopefully not be relevant to this particular situation: how much trouble can a vengeful former employer cause for you with regard to release letters? Are they obliged to give them *eventually*, or can they effectively give you the run-around for as long as they want? Is there any cost to them for doing this, in terms of money / legal issues / bad reputation?
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Oct 24, 2014 15:48
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Sounds... scary. But yeah, in any case 'vengeance' for bad treatment wouldn't be on the cards beyond the previously-mentioned Internet Badmouthing after I GTFO. Although I doubt this company wants to shaft anyone too badly because they've got about 6 foreigners with negligible loyalty, so every time one of us has problems we all get nervous, at which point the management gets nervous and becomes more helpful (one foreigner quitting is his own problem. Two or three in a relatively short space of time? Management problem.) So yeah, my employer is sponsoring me for the Z visa, and I have documents in hand now (which is more than I had when I made my opening post), but they are providing *zero* help/guidance beyond that, other than "Go to HK and get a visa", hence my nervousness and questions here. My co-workers are variously American (who apparently have different stuff to follow, may be a cover for guanxi they don't want to share), previous-visa-fuckups whose examples I don't want to follow, or using-study-visas-for-years people whose example I *also* don't want to follow. That said, comments here about the relative difficulty of quitting before/after the Z visa have me thinking hard. In other news, since I lack access to the search function (but do have archives), can anyone link to the Terrible Tale of Ceciltron?
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Oct 24, 2014 17:15
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OK, so I did go through with the HK thing in the end (which may turn out to be a long-term mistake; if it does, I'll post about it here for people's entertainment). I did indeed bring lots of copies of everything relevant, and other stuff that was just sort of in arms' reach when I left (application form, handwritten. typed. double-sided. single-sided. english addresses. moon-runes. the works.) Aaanyway, they accepted it yesterday afternoon (couldn't make it in for the morning session), and despite my clear lack of food / sleep / sanity, I scrubbed up so as not to trigger people's 'hobo' response. So yeah, I'm waiting in line to hopefully collect the visa now (or maybe get into an argument and wait another day, who knows), but after that all I've got on today's schedule is returning to my Chungking palace*, or maybe climb the peak. I'd be up for meeting up somewhere cheap; my employer is on the hook for visa costs but not living costs, hence Chungking! :-S
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Oct 28, 2014 06:42
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No HK SIM, sadly, as it's only a brief stay, but my QQ is 2903558375. My WeChat decided to poo poo the bed just as I was leaving China, so that isn't working until I can get back into mobile coverage there and sort my account out.
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Oct 28, 2014 07:37
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Heh, haven't used that in so long I'd forgotten about it! :-) If you ignore the various linebreaks and words, my number is +861words words words31626 yet more words 56021 At least, I /think/ that's the number I tied my Whatsapp to. It certainly isn't my current one...
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Oct 28, 2014 09:50
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Heh, true! But, right now I have a cunning and elaborate filter system for the endless waves of spam, which is "do they write / speak in English?" Although, I guess the number of spam-type companies willing to send international calls and texts is probably quite low... Old habits, etc.
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Oct 28, 2014 11:10
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You can already vote for one of the establishment pre-approved choices, citizen! Just like in the West, amirite? :-P In other news, good meetup was good. Now, back to Kunshan and my unwise employment...
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Oct 28, 2014 18:56
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Regarding scams, I kinda miss being a filthy backpacker. Reason is, I used to look so bad-news / scummy that even the most desperate scammers wouldn't touch me. I think I had a total of 4 attempts in 6 months of wandering around...
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Oct 31, 2014 16:20
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I was amused at how poorly the maps I checked reflected the very... 3D nature of the city in HK. Also, it hadn't taken me long to forget what traditional Olde Time British city planning looks like, with curly curvy roads and streets that change names every 50m and on some (but not all) bends. Still, it was good to visit, and was a good way to get a slight taste of home (i.e.: London) without the cost of actually going there. I kinda assumed that Americans would shriek and burst into metaphorical flame when they first see it, but based on this thread, looks like not. :-)
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Nov 2, 2014 09:54
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blinkyzero posted:You're going to have to explain why you thought this. I was under the impression that American cities and towns were organised on some sort of sensible grid system, although from your reaction I'm guessing I was mistaken.
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Nov 2, 2014 19:26
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peanut posted:In my area, you can tell when cross into a posh city because the sidewalks suddenly disappear (walking is for dogs.) Ouch. Why does local government allow that sort of thing?
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Nov 3, 2014 03:52
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fart simpson posted:Please don't misuse the word literally. I was at a hostel in Changsha that had an unusually hard mattress even by those standards. After a couple of nights the sheets got shoved around, and when I was putting them back I found that the 'mattress' was three thick sheets over wood. So, not always figurative!
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Nov 12, 2014 04:21
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kenner116 posted:I've had two apartments. One in a Chinese friend's name and the other with the teaching agency. Never even thought of needing a residence permit for that. Yeah, I avoided that problem by not knowing about it. No bribes or workarounds required, but it was a rental agency; maybe they wanted the sweet sweet agency fee more than an argument. Either way, residence permit in ~2 weeks so /shrug.
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Nov 13, 2014 07:46
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VideoTapir posted:What do you mean by "handle your visa?" Do you meet the requirements for a Z-visa? Did you have to go through the whole criminal record bullshit? Do you have 2 years post-graduation work experience? I interviewed at EF once. They specifically told me that they would hire people who didn't meet those requirements. This is a sign that either they are willing to employ people with illegal visas, or they are willing to procure illegal visas. Have they given to you or shown you any paperwork at all that is less than 100 percent truthful about who you are and why you're going to China? If so, they're trying to get you an illegal visa. SAFEA, baby. There is now a section of the Chinese government you can legally bribe... err... 'pay for a training course' in order to get a Foreign Experts' Certificate. As long as you've got a Bachelor's, anyway. I didn't need to waive the requirements myself, but when I was collecting my certificate I met a lot of EF people who went that route.
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Nov 14, 2014 03:41
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Even KidCastle (the *other* other crappy franchised education company) offers 10k plus bonuses that make it 11k, and that's for 20hr teaching / 10hr prep/office, and not Shanghai rent. That said, it's not nearly as stimulating as university teaching would be, I guess. If I still feel like more teaching after I've got a year's experience, I'll probably go teach science at an international school or something for (relatively) mad bank.
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Nov 14, 2014 12:30
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I've been very happy sharing an apartment with another English teacher. It meant that I could live somewhere nice and shiny for 1400/mo (Kunshan, near Shanghai, the savings would be more significant in Shanghai proper), and I've saved a ton of money by being able to casually talk to someone in English without having to hit the expat bars, etc. Yes, I know, I know "~~~Chinese Girlfriend~~~" etc, but until that, uh, happy day, a flatmate is good company. As long as you don't choose to live with That Guy.
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Nov 16, 2014 08:34
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quote:Are expats the only people that speak English or something? No, not at all - they keyword was just 'casually', as in, without having to worry about people getting references, etc. I certainly don't live in a bubble, and most of the English I speak is with Chinese people (even if they do frown at the idea of 'mixed drinks' and 'staying out after 10pm'), but I have this itch for 'completely natural' conversation that needs scratching periodically. caberham posted:Are you in Suzhou now or something? Besides expat bars, you can set up your board game groups or goon groups right? Still Kunshan, so no such group. It's sad; I know an awesome group of people in Hangzhou, and a few good ones in Suzhou, and I'm aware that Shanghai has everything going on, but no-one is in Kunshan (that I know about). :-/ ...which is a pity, because I'm a filthy RPG-geek, and I'd love to GM something chilled and social, or indeed play boardgames. Maybe I'll persuade some of the few people I know locally to join in! (although boardgames will have to wait until my planned trip home, since I didn't bring any with me)
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Nov 16, 2014 11:25
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Just as an example - not to praise or drat - the echinacities job section usually has a good selection of jobs for ~10k without experience, ~14k with. As far as I can tell, the life cycle for low-end expats in China such as myself is: one year gettng exploited / experience at 8-12k, one year getting paid at ~15k, then either burning out or becoming a higher-end expat. Job recommendations are tricky to get from anyone but personal friends, because so many expat-type people are five pints of crazy in a four-pint jug, and the jug has a crack in it. No-one wants to explain to a Chinese boss why the guy they recommended was caught by the police driving a stolen car through the city throwing jelly at hookers and giggling like a loon...
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Nov 17, 2014 07:13
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caberham posted:Maybe that's because atopian is pretty crazy himself Could be. Could be!
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Nov 17, 2014 15:14
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Hokay, so, I'm finally legal, in that I've gotten my residency permit. Now I'm beginning the delicate process of getting my dodgy company to give me back the various bits of paperwork used to get it. A question, then: what bits of paper are there? I know that I want my Foreign Experts' Certificate back, and my criminal background check certificate. I don't give two shits about my healthcheck papers, as they're only good for 6 months anyway. I've already got a copy of my contract, for all the legal good that a copy does in China (i.e: none). Are there other documents that I need to request? A counterpart to the residency page in my passport, for example? Are there are bits of paper that the company has legitimate (from my perspective) reasons to want to hold onto? I'm aware that it won't be as simple as 'requesting', but I want to make sure that I ask for everything I want from the very start, and that I don't ask for anything impossible / non-existent. So... suggestions?
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Nov 26, 2014 14:35
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OK, sounds good. But, as far as you know, there aren't other 'versions' or things-to-do-with-the-residency-permit that aren't in the passport? I'm not suggesting there are, I just figured I'd check before making my 'request' list. Should be interesting to see how much trouble I have.
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Nov 26, 2014 16:48
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Hmm, thanks for the info about the various certificates and permits. Food for thought, specifically the reasons why the company might actually want to hang on to them. At present I've got an acceptable relationship with my company (which, I'm told, is unusual), so I want to preserve that if possible. I guess I'll shoot for getting the FEC, since that becomes progressively more valuable the older it is, but I'll not pester too hard about the residency / employment permit booklet things, since they're not relevant after I leave this employer anyway.
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Nov 27, 2014 16:50
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Kunshan, near Shanghai - and, I'm WeChatted and QQed up. My WeChat searchable username is the same as my forum ID, so anyone feel free to drop me a message. :-)
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Nov 27, 2014 17:26
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Hokay, points taken about the FEC stuff - I appreciate the info, however it's phrased! :-) About the FEC age thing, the reason I was thinking about age = value is because someone told me that it was good as a solid indicator of work experience in China and in an area. Of course, like pretty much everyone else, I would be neither surprised nor heartbroken to find out that he was bullshitting...
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Nov 28, 2014 17:03
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LentThem posted:Like, which other fields have people show up to work drunk with this level of frequency? Coal mining? Construction work? Imagine talking to that one dude in the mine who takes his job super seriously and is always attempting to better himself and his craft. I mean sure, you're happy for him, but it's still "drat, this guy works in a coal mine surrounded by drunks." In my experience, bar work, factory work, cleaning, accountancy (afternoons only), DJing, wedding arrangement. Probably loads more, but I'm only going off what I personally know. And no, it wasn't (usually) me.
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Nov 30, 2014 11:15
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Isn't PBR just a beer that's considered unusually cheap and crap even by US standards? I've seen it occasionally here in China, generally when someone who doesn't drink beer was sent to get beer, but I haven't been desperate enough to try it yet...
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Dec 2, 2014 09:59
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bad day posted:Or paying an artist to give people free PBR tattoos That should be some sort of crime. I mean, anyone who wants a PBR tattoo fits the definition of 'vulnerable and confused'. And, why the scare quotes around 'stigma' when talking about American Bud and Coors? I've tasted those beers, and they deserve all the stigma they get. Hell, they deserve stigmata. On the plus side, I come from the only country in the world where actual Budweiser and American Budweiser can frolic and play side-by-side, so my taste is probably influenced by that.
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Dec 5, 2014 14:09
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Rather than go through the hassle of checking that my bank allows HK ATM transactions, then further hassle when the person telling me turned out to have been mistaken / lying / not even an employee just servicing the bank lobby AC, I took a couple of hundred HKD (to get out of the airport) and a stack of RMB to HK and shopped around for a decent exchange rate once I was there. Worked out OK. On the one hand, carrying cash is more of a risk than not. On the other hand, if your wallet gets stolen in HK, you're screwed for a thousand other reasons anyway, so /shrug.
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Dec 22, 2014 12:27
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LentThem posted:i hate everyone equally because people are trainable monkeys I dunno, I've met a few people I couldn't train. Moving swiftly on, a question: So, I got into an ESL gig so that I'd get paid for learning Mandarin, after which I'd go on to do something more suitable for my career. Only, turns out I'm a slow learner at languages, so I'll probably need another year to get to where I want to be. Rather than staying at my current acceptable-but-unremarkable English mill, I figured I'd wander sideways and look for a job teaching science at an international school or something for that second year, and so I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone can suggest potential problems / requirements / strategies. Right now I've got a Biology BSc from a decent university, a bunch of sciencey qualifications at the levels below that, and 4-5 years as the Commissioning Editor for various science/medical journals, with a sideline in training English-native-speaker adults in advanced English and proofreading. BUT, my actual education qualifications are... limited. I went on some bare-minimum week-long TEFL course associated with the Chinese government in order to get my Foreign Expert's certificate, and by the time my contract with my current English-mill employer ends next August, I'll have 1 year of experience teaching the usual English stuff to 6-12 year-olds. So, what sort of stuff could I / should I do in the intervening eight months to increase the likelihood that I'll be able to teach science and feel useful, rather than 'teach' 'English' and feel... well, /shrug. Any comments?
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Jan 3, 2015 15:06
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While we're on the topic of cash; have I read previous posts right, in that it's possible to take out cash from a normal Chinese bank account using a debit card at ATMs in other countries? (the country I'm specifically interested in is the UK) If so, that certainly beats WU or small-amounts-at-a-time... I'm heading back for a visit home next month, so can people specifically confirm / deny?
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Jan 7, 2015 17:28
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EvilElmo posted:Any good Taiwanese or Chinese TV shows you guys recommend watching? Happy Sheep and Grey Wolf! Accept no substitute!
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Jan 24, 2015 14:42
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I know I'm late, but I couldn't not respond to the terrible maligning of hard sleeper trains. Sure, the top bunk is the size of a child's coffin (and smells like one), and sure the bottom bunk will 100% get stolen by an old person, who will then guilt the ticket dude into letting them stay, but once you've gotten used to booking middle bunks then all is well. Bring earplugs, good baijiu (to drink), bad baijiu (to share) and a sense of humour, and all will be well. I spent a few months wandering across China on hard sleepers, and never came to any serious harm.
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Feb 24, 2015 04:55
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Hangzhou is a nice place. Nothing to do? Hang around West Lake. Also, lots of nice small bars and small/large clubs. Would recommend. Also, you're not crazy-far from Shanghai if you want the big-cosmopolitan-city experience, although the train is something like 1.5 hours, so it's an overnight job for a proper visit.
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Mar 9, 2015 15:01
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A quick note of caution about costs: The various guidelines people have been giving for how much stuff costs are true, but be aware that there's a whole other level of stuff available that essentially costs a lot more in order to cost more, ststus-symbol-style. So, until you get a feel for how things work, be very careful to check exactly what it is you're buying or you could end up with an extra zero on your bill. Not that a couple of instances of this will cripple you, since you're coming from the US (I guess?), but it could disrupt your plans.
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Mar 11, 2015 14:31
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Something I forgot to mention: If you're after cheap dorm rooms but still having a nice atmosphere / facilities, foreign-style hostels are the way to go. But, if you're after nice single/double rooms, it's actually often cheaper to go for a standard hotel. Hostels have this weird price-jump thing going on, where the cheap rooms are 30Y (50-70Y in Shanghai, Beijing, major cities) but the expensive rooms are 150-200Y. Meanwhile, nearby random whoretel has rooms at 100Y (150-200Y in Shanghai, Beijing, major cities). You can go megacheap (lower than the prices above) in out-of-the-way places and it'll still be rustic or charming or whatever, as long as you're not picky about the shape of your toilet, but don't try to go megacheap in big cities. There are some depressing places out there...
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Mar 12, 2015 03:30
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My info is from March->July 2014, so not that far out. Although yeah, you could easily bolt on 5Y to all of my prices, because everything changes. Also, some ho(s)tels have strong seasonal variation: a decent hostel in Shanghai (City Central International Youth Hostel forevah!) cost 40Y / night for a 4-bed dorm in March, but 65Y / night in July. Happily, the best place to holiday in China (Central->South->Southwest) is always nice and cheap (except Hainan, HK and surrounds, obviously). The section where I wandered through Zhangjiajie (Wulingyuan) -> Guilin -> Kunming -> Dali -> Shangri-La (Deqen) was both excellent and cheap compared with more Northern-Eastern areas. Yunnan in general is pretty awesome, although there's the theoretical possibility of malaria there if that small chance unrustles your jimmies. If pushed to it, I'd rather compromise on ho(s)tel quality than on food; you can see what a ho(s)tel is like, and any problems are pretty up-front. With food... well, you never know. That said, with the stuff I saw when working with food in the UK (stricter hygiene standards than most places, including the US) makes you wonder how much worse China could realistically do things...
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Mar 12, 2015 04:24
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 12:05 |
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I suspect that they *are* road-use only, it's just that no-one cares. Fixing that is harder than writing new laws. And, most of Europe gets by just fine without jaywalking laws. Hell, I was 20-something before I found out what that weird low-importance crime endlessly mentioned in US media *was*...
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Mar 17, 2015 15:11
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