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I am far from the most knowledgeable person when it comes to knives and sharpening, and that is why I made this thread! I see it as an opportunity for learning as much as anything. Knives are probably the most fundamental tool in a kitchen and cooking with sharp knives rather than dull ones turns annoying recipes into really fun ones. It is also, paradoxically, safer, as when you are cutting with a super sharp knife you pretty much know exactly where it's going - where you're pointing it. We'll divide this into sections. A.) Very basic types of knives (note: Gravity84 did an incredible write-up of Japanese knives and how they are different/how they relate to Western knives.) B.) How to sharpen C.) Questions There are many, many different types of knives. For ease of consumption we can break it down into about eight different "types" that you'll commonly find and use in a home kitchen. I will be vastly oversimplifying and mixing different types of knives together, but I'm most interested in constructing a framework for understanding what different knife shapes are for. For product recommendations, I will only be recommending items in low price and mid price tiers. For high price, there are probably specialty forums that you'll want to read up on because there are dozens of factors you'll probably want to consider that I don't trust myself to weigh (basically, I don't know enough). A.) Very basic types of knives The knives below are basically ranked in the order in which I would purchase them. Lots of the pictures are of Japanese knives a.) because they look cool and b.) because I recommend them. The metal is much harder than most of the German steel you get with Wusthof/Henckels, meaning you will have to sharpen them less. They are also generally lighter, which is nice! Obviously there are exceptions. 1.) Chef's Knife This is the most basic and most commonly-used knife in most peoples' kitchen. It is usually made with a curved blade so that you can do a rocking back-and-forth motion on your cutting board. The Japanese Gyuto fills this role, though there is generally less of a curve to the blade so a different motion is required. It is recommended to get this knife in size 8" or larger - I prefer closer to 10". You can cut more and if you've set up your station nicely the extra size won't get in the way. Low-price: Victorinox fibrox Mid-price: Tojiro DP 2.) Paring knife This is the other important knife to have. If you have a paring knife and a chef's knife, you can prepare pretty much anything. If you are starting out, I would strongly recommending buying a paring knife and a chef's knife and then adjusting your collection accordingly. You can be perfectly happy with a very cheap paring knife, though I do like the Victorinox models. I use this most often to peel onions and shallots, but you can also use them for any task where you don't want to use a chef's knife. Low-price: Victorinox fibrox Mid-price: ??? 3.) Slicer This knife is used to cut proteins, and can also be used to fillet fish. It is generally extremely long - the idea is to be able to cut through an entire protein in one stroke. This keeps the cut looking neat and even, and is one of the huge ways that chefs get to be dicks about other chefs' food. Low-price: ??? Mid-price: Tojiro DP 4.) Deboner This knife is used to take the bones out of your large proteins. For example, if you have some chicken thighs that you want to debone. The smaller size and sharp tip make it better for scraping the meat off of them bones. Low-price: Victorinox fibrox 5a.) Santoku I'm ranking this knife low because you can get by without it - however, it's one of the most commonly used knives in many peoples' kitchens. It's a knife with a flat blade that's specialized for "push-cutting" motions - so rather than rocking you knife on the cutting board like with a chef's knife, you push directly downwards. Popular for doing things like brunoise. Other types of knives can be used for push-cutting, however - the CCK cleaver is the most beloved knife on the forums (probably) and is used for this purpose. Low-price: ??? Mid-price: Tojiro DP Santoku 5b.) Chinese Cleaver This one looks really different but it fills the same basic role as the Santoku. You can get by with one or the other (though many people own both). I'd merge the two but that would have been confusing. Really this entry is here for me to recommend the CCK Small Cleaver to you, probably the most popular single knife on the forum. It is large and is great for cutting up crap and then moving it from the cutting board to your pots and pans. God-tier: CCK Small Cleaver (it's $40) 6.) Meat cleaver This is a very thick knife used for hacking through bones. You'll damage your other knives if you try to cut through very thick bones, so a thick knife with a larger angle at the tip is useful for this. Useful for doing things like breaking apart chicken carcasses for stock. The CCK cleaver is probably inappropriate for this purpose - you'll want something heavier and thicker. Low-price: Not sure. 7.) Flexible fish filleting knife In western kitchens, it's very common to fillet fish with a very flexible knife. Sometimes these knives look almost comically thin. It allows you to bend the knife to better travel along the bones of the fish and leave less meat on the carcass. Low-price: Victorinox fibrox 8.) Serrated bread knife You probably already own one of these, and it's probably good enough. You want it to be long so that you can cut more bread with each stroke, but the sharpness really doesn't matter. Definitely go cheap on this one. The idea is that the teeth make it easier to sink into and cut the bread. If someone has any brands that they particularly like, let me know, but whatever's popular on Amazon is probably fine. 9.) Smooth honing rod This is not a knife, but you will want it. When you have a sharp knife, the "edge" is a very thin piece of metal on the very edge of the knife that, depending on the hardness of the metal, can be easily deformed. Most honing rods you see are rough, as the manufacturers expect that the user won't actually ever sharpen their knifes. Thus, they expect the honing rod to be used as a sharpener. I strongly recommend against this - the edge won't be very good. A smooth honing rod that is harder than your knives will do what honing should do - align the blade - without scraping metal off of your knife. If your knives are especially hard, you will want to consider a ceramic honing rod instead. This is a very basic overview. There are many, many, many other types of knives but I tried to boil it down for newbie users. I will obviously add or modify information as is necessary. I need some help on the recommended brands. B.) Sharpening This is a highly contentious issue and why knife threads threads often die. So please keep an open mind! Sharpening is a hobby in its own right that people dedicate years to. So what should you buy/do? If you want to learn further about it, I strongly, strongly recommend reading this: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/ To simplify purchasing decisions, this was deimos' post in the product recommendation thread: deimos posted:How much do you want to spend? However, this probably makes you want to ask a lot of questions, so again I strongly implore you to read this link: http://forums.egullet.org/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/ At the same time, the most important thing is that you sharpen your knives at all - be that on a Chef's Choice 110 or a Japanese waterstone. Most debate online is a war over the last 20% of sharpness - the first 80% is fairly easily attainable and you will enjoy your sharp knives! C.) Questions Q: How should I wash my knives? A: By hand, with a sponge. Do not put in the dishwasher - the agitation of the water will make the blades get dull very fast. Q: What cutting board should I use? A: Plastic is fine. If you want to use wood, end-grain is better as it is softer and will dull your knives less. Avoid glass, marble, and bamboo. Q: How should I store my knives? A: Ideally, on this guy. But if you have kids/want to put your knifes away keep them in a drawer/knife roll/toolbox with plastic protectors like the ultimate edge guard. Q: How often should I sharpen? A: It depends on the knife, how much you use it, and how soft the metal is. If you have very hard knives you can just send them to a professional sharpener once a year and hone periodically. You won't really be able to answer this question until you've handled a very sharp knife, as you won't know what to be expecting. Thanks for reading! I will edit this OP as things develop. Also, please post pictures of your cool knives if you have cool knives. No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jul 3, 2013 |
# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 17:03 |
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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 03:36 |
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:Thoughts on this knife and why it is so cheap? Henckels doesn't hold an edge very well, and the knives are extremely thick, making the knife heavier and more difficult to slide right into things (sideways, especially). Prices on knives can be extremely deceptive vs. their actual utility, especially for the big German manufacturers (which are, by and large, quite expensive for what you get). The thing that really bugs me about those knives is the bottom. What's supposed to happen to the bottom of the knife as you sharpen it and the blade recesses? It makes no sense. The rocking motion will get hosed and the knife will be useless (this is less of an issue for boning knives etc. as you will not be rocking the blade on the cutting board). It's boring to say Victorinox Fibrox over and over, but their bang for buck cannot be beaten (except maybe by the CCK small cleaver). No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 29, 2013 |
# ¿ Jun 29, 2013 18:20 |
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I don't know - you could get: Tojiro DP paring, utility, chef's knife - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todpsakn17.html ($150) Tojiro DP petty ($40) Tojiro DP santoku or CCK cleaver ($70 or $50) any old bread knife ($20) ceramic rod ($30) for less than half the price - and I haven't met anyone who prefers Global to Tojiro (and if you do, I apologize - I don't mean any offense) You could use the rest of the budget to get a Tojiro DP slicer and a set of 9.47 table knives (for truly baller steak knives worthy of hannibal lecter)
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# ¿ Jul 2, 2013 14:54 |
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:I'll do a write up on carbon care and upkeep, and a few videos when I have time later this week. Sharpening, what thinning is and how to do it, and some knife skill stuff that isn't exactly common knowledge. porcellus posted:Please take out Deimos' review. It's not that they're bad suggestions, it's that it reads like HERE'S WHAT TO DO OK while leaving out pertinent context and information. The belt sander thingy is neat, but man it is scary. Kind of curious what your setup is. No Wave fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jul 3, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 05:09 |
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Steve Yun posted:Chinese cleaver entry conspicuously absent!
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# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 13:15 |
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deimos posted:Faux pros (the fake version of the edge-pro you can get on ebay) are not horribly priced and stones for it go fairly high (30k), I personally don't use it but they seem decent if you just can't do a proper edge, but you are being that guy, when I originally made the post I made it with the price for edge-pro instead of faux pro. mmartinx posted:I'm sure there are much better knives out there for an 1/8th of the price, my recommendation was just in case there's anyone out there looking for a decent, everything included set with 6 steak knives.
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# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 19:36 |
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:Paring knives are the proper steak knife, traditional steak knives are inefficient at their designed task and are more expensive. I completely agree that hand-sharpening is the "best" - it's just really, really helpful to use a more controlled environment first.
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# ¿ Jul 5, 2013 17:56 |
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breakfall87 posted:awesome poo poo b.) I clearly have to consider revising my stance on bread knives c.) would love a pic of your little katana What I love about your approach is that you're not trying to do as much work as possible - you only own three stones! So fackin cool. Put in an order for my Shapton 4k today so that I don't have to think about stones ever again (this brings me to 320, 1000, 4000) deimos posted:Just took a look at this link (it was Global so I didn't pay much attention to it) and noticed one thing: The drat steak knives are not serrated. Maybe when I have a house, butler, and dinner parties I will consider the purchase. Until then, will have to get some Laguiole serrated instead. Chef De Cuisinart posted:Paring knives are the proper steak knife, traditional steak knives are inefficient at their designed task and are more expensive. Realistically, I never serve steak whole anyways - I love the presentation of it cut up on a wooden cutting board. Probably would be nice for chicken breast, though, probably the largest protein I serve intact. If anyone sees a deal on authentic made-in-france wooden-handled laguiole serrated knives, let me know! No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 6, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 6, 2013 16:00 |
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breakfall87 posted:The Honsho looks really nice, and appears to be thinner than the Tojiro. I know a couple of people with Richmond blades, and they both seemed pretty disappointed I also realize that the Moritaka was a mistake. The blade's wrong for me - I much prefer French style blades. I'm planning on replacing it so if anyone's interested in a nearly new Moritaka 240mm on deep discount with almost all of the black finish taken off of it, let me know! (Or if anyone knows a good place to sell such a thing...) BTW, that black finish poo poo was useless. Does nothing to prevent rust. So I took nevr-dull to the whole knife and did three 8-hour coats of mustard. No longer rusting. Planning on doing the same to my CCK cleaver.
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# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 00:35 |
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GrAviTy84 posted:kurouchi finish? It's purely aesthetic, yes. I was interested in taking that moritaka from you until you said that you removed it.. :/ How deep of a discount? ...bad OP.
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# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 01:12 |
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GrAviTy84 posted:if it's the handle that annoys you you should just get a Tojiro DP or similar. It won't be as superspergysharp capable as the Moritaka but it sounds like you were having a hard time with upkeep of carbon anyway. I've already got the replacement lined up. No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 9, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 01:53 |
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Chemmy posted:Gyuto I suppose. I'm using an 8" chef's knife now, probably would like something longer, don't care about material it'll hardly be the fussiest thing I own. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kowh2wa27.html It comes in 240mm as well. I've never used it, but it's one that I've seen come up a lot on other sites when this question comes up so I guess I'm just making you aware of it.
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# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 13:35 |
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Bag of Sun Chips posted:I'm not seeing anywhere where it says it's for left handed people. GrAviTy84 posted:It's a 50/50 bevel with a symmetrical handle, it works just as well for lefties as it does for righties. Unless you actually want a D handled asymmetric bevel knife, that is.
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# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 18:49 |
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Incredibly annoying that Google's being so coy, but how much do these run? I bought the Cook's Illustrated recommended proteak before this thread was made so I'm set but I'm curiouus. EDIT: I got it before I started 'sperging but apparently teak can dull knives a little. I mean, it's more a theoretical thing than anything people have routinely empirically observed, but I'd avoid teak if you're buying a new cutting board just because you can. I'm probably going to hold onto mine for a while though, because a cutting board isn't one of those things that's easy to re-sell. No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Jul 11, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 00:17 |
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:http://www.amazon.com/San-Jamar-CBG...words=san+jamar
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# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 01:35 |
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GrAviTy84 posted:is this it? http://www.amazon.com/San-Jamar-CBM1318-Saf-T-Grip-Board-Mate/dp/B0001MSCKM These would actually probably do the job very nicely: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/weck-replacement-rubber-ring/ Though slightly wider circles would work better for me. EDIT: Found it! Searched "canning", and indeed, made in France. http://www.surlatable.com/product/P...1701&origin=pla Basically, put one on each corner of your cutting board and you're good. Though you can get by with 3. No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 11, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 02:08 |
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Steve Yun posted:Haha, jar gaskets? Anyways, I can strongly recommend these as temporary feet for any slippy cutting board. If this is my contribution to internet cooking, I will be forever proud. I ended up going with this model: http://www.amazon.com/Bormioli-Rocco-Fido-Gaskets-Bag/dp/B0001BMYIE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373505424&sr=8-1&keywords=fido+gasket I'll let you know how it goes.
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# ¿ Jul 11, 2013 02:18 |
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Got my replacement for the Moritaka - Masamoto KS Gyuto 270mm. It's 270mm. If you look at the moritaka above and this knife, you'll see that the shape of the knife is different - I much prefer this shape, as I'm more accustomed to the French mode of cutting poo poo. Plus it's real big. That wooden sheathy thing is called a Saya, and they're kind of expensive and silly but they're nice for carbon knives because, being wood, they absorb some of the invisible moisture that remains after wiping the knife. I think that's the idea, anyways. No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jul 27, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 27, 2013 13:29 |
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Apologies for the problem with the knife. I may have a make-up gift for you. Realistically, the reason I got rid of it is because there's this dude boar_d_laze who posts on some other knife forums who seems like a sick genius and I just decided to do everything he said.
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# ¿ Jul 30, 2013 22:56 |
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I made a few borosilicate honing rods. I was thinking I'd send you that and you could keep it and you could tell me if it's all hosed up. I have a few extras, just kind of curious to get another perspective on how it turned out and I don't really know any other spergy cooks. I mean that as a compliment. Just let me know if you (gravity) are interested, and I'll send it off. No Wave fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jul 31, 2013 |
# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 00:22 |
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TATPants posted:You actually made glass honing rods? From raw silica and other stuff? If so, I would really like to see your oven setup Scott808 posted:Can't you just buy the premade borosilicate rod and have someone cut it down to size?
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# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 14:11 |
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Sir Spaniard posted:So I bought these after reading about it, to try at work. Wonders never cease. Such an ingenious use of those things. Did the guy who introduced you wash them I'm the dishwasher or just by hand? I imagine they'd wear out over time through a professional dishwasher? I think some of them were a little cracked from going through the dishwasher a few times, but realistically they should be able to take a decent amount of abuse given what they're used for. Honestly they could probably stand to be beaten up a little bit - they'll probably get softer and rougher, and thus more grippy. So glad you tried it out! The white ones I linked in my old post worked out well, but I think the orange color is prettier and you're less likely to lose track of it.
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# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 19:25 |
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Don't clean it, it's good for the patina.
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# ¿ Jul 31, 2013 22:46 |
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I dunno. I'd take a petty over the nakiri as the gyuto can do most anything the nakiri can and you can use the petty for deboning tasks. Then, if you don't mind not having a dedicated slicer, then you'd be pretty much set.
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# ¿ Aug 3, 2013 20:34 |
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martinlutherbling posted:The thing is, I've never had to debone anything and if the need comes up I think a cheap Victorinox will do. Mostly I chop, slice, and dice. Is there really anything a Nakiri does better than a Gyuto then? What's great about the CCK small cleaver as an alternative to the nakiri is how big it is and how much diced onion you can move around at a time.
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# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 13:51 |
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martinlutherbling posted:Well I've used and loved Chinese cleavers before, but mostly the random Chinatown $12 specials. My only worry with the CCK is upkeep, not with myself but with my roommates. Can't tell you how many times I've come home to my cast iron pan filled with water, and I'm the only one who ever oils it too. Don't wanna risk that with any really decent blade.
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# ¿ Aug 4, 2013 16:30 |
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cryospam posted:No Wave, Any chance you would be willing to sell one of those? I can't seem to find a good borosilicate rod anywhere now that HandAmerican seems to have stopped selling them.
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# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 01:46 |
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martinlutherbling posted:How does the Fujiwara FKM line stack up against the Tojiro DP? Price for a 240mm Gyuto is about the same for both. I own one, unfortunately, and I feel like the market for selling used cutting boards is small so I haven't bothered reselling it. I only really use it for presentation/serving anyways, and one of the advantages of teak is that it requires less upkeep, so I guess I'm still doing ok at life? I'm trying pretty hard here.
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# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 13:47 |
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GrAviTy84 posted:More real estate for slicing which is important for more fragile things so that you can cut in one swoop instead of changing directions. More real estate just for prep, you can prep more in one go with a larger blade than you can with a small one. A larger blade feels more stable to me, too. It's not going to be affected by the thing you're cutting very much. If you need something small and nimble, that's what the paring knife is for. Chef's knife is for everything else. Don't get a blade that is longer than your cutting board though. Agreed on getting a larger knife, though. Is it a big deal if it's longer than the cutting board? It doesn't really matter unless there's stuff behind your board.
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# ¿ Oct 4, 2013 02:00 |
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mindphlux posted:I mean... I guess it's just a weird definition of "lovely". But you could argue that it hasn't really hit the point of diminishing returns the same way a Tojiro DP has.
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# ¿ Dec 4, 2013 13:43 |
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hoshkwon posted:For the victorinox knives, I think it's more of a reflection on how many overpriced lovely knives there are out there rather than how good the knives are. Victorinox sets a base standard: this is how good a knife at a -$40 price point should be. Not those lovely henckels you can get at target. It is remarkable how much better it is than similarly priced options I've dealt with. Of course it should inspire excitement! It is something to be happy over! No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Dec 5, 2013 |
# ¿ Dec 5, 2013 19:26 |
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SopWATh posted:Is that personal preference or something specific about the knives? Are you talking about the $160 "Forged" knife or the $30 fibrox things?
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# ¿ Dec 7, 2013 01:33 |
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The bolster alone makes the Henckels/Wusthofs knives (that have those bolsters) a bad buy in my book. I simply cannot recommend a knife with such a bizarre oversight like that. If someone prefers Henckels/Wusthof who am I to say otherwise? But given that most people probably want lighter, sharper, cheaper knives without the weird design flaw I don't really see why I'd recommend them to someone who hasn't used them before. No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Dec 11, 2013 |
# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 01:57 |
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Steve Yun posted:What's wrong with the bolsters? I have a Henckels chef knife and over my time learning to cook I've come to the realization that yeah, it's too thick, but I love the bolster. Though I'm especially biased because I had a chef's choice sharpening system and this was an even more annoying problem. No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 11, 2013 |
# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 02:48 |
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ma i married a tuna posted:I do still agree with the Tojiro as a default recommendation for someone looking to buy a good, well-priced first kitchen knife; I just don't think it's a real upgrade if you have a decent German already.
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# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 14:05 |
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revdrkevind posted:Having said all that, is it really worth it to recommend stepping up in paring knives? I got the Victorinox parer in a combo pack, and I like it even more than the chef's knife. Admittedly all I tend to pull it out for is rough chopping garlic or... paring potatoes or whatever, but it's become my best buddy. Maybe that's just my inner redneck being so excited that a cheap knife does a decent job. The handle is small for my bear-mitts, but I find it's a good shape to wedge in my fingers and go to town, never had an issue. Seems like the perfect compliment to a good starter knife. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 8, 2014 |
# ¿ Jan 7, 2014 13:06 |
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rockcity posted:I've used that as my plastic board for 6 years, it's held up very well.. http://www.amazon.com/Bormioli-Rocco-Fido-Gaskets-Bag/dp/B0001BMYIE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389454995&sr=8-1&keywords=gasket as portable cutting board legs.
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# ¿ Jan 11, 2014 16:44 |
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pogothemonkey0 posted:I'm trying to select a gift for my parents and I know some knives are a good idea. They've been using my victorinox 8" chef's knife and discovered just how horrible their knives truly are in comparison. They must have bought a 10 piece set like 10 years ago and have never had them sharpened. The standard german knives won't hold an edge as long.
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# ¿ May 4, 2014 19:09 |
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SubG posted:This is actually a complex question, as steel composition is just one part of the overall equation. Two edges made of the same steel but given different heat treatments might perform more differently than two edges made from similar but different steels. Anyway.
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# ¿ May 5, 2014 17:02 |
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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 03:36 |
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Stalizard posted:From the product recommendation thread: No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:27 on May 8, 2014 |
# ¿ May 7, 2014 23:56 |