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Amstrad
Apr 4, 2007

To destroy evil you must become an even greater evil.

Welcome to Genshiken Second Season. Despite the name this is actually the third season for the Genshiken anime and things are quite a bit different this time around. The first two seasons were adaptations of the first manga. This newest season is an adaptation of the "Second Generation" manga that was started after the end of the original work. It features a number of new characters with cameo appearances for the old cast. In addition the voice actors for the majority of the characters have changed.

Who's working on this?
Production I.G.
The director is Tsutomu Mizushima (Another, Girls und Panzer, Squid Girl, Azazel-San, xxxHOLiC)

I live under a rock, what is this?
Genshiken is primarily about the escapades of a university club (referred to as a circle) full of otaku. The club's name Genshiken is an abbreviation of the full name Gendai Shikaku Bunka Kenkyūkai which translates to "The Society for the Study of Modern Visual Culture". Per the title the club concerns themselves with all aspects of "otaku culture" including anime, manga, video games, and cosplay.

I didn't watch the first two seasons, can I watch this?
Absolutely! As mentioned above, the cast of characters for this is largely new, the events of the previous series are mentioned, but by no means will you be confused. That said, the first two seasons are very good (better than this season for sure) and I highly recommend you watch them eventually.

CHARACTERS

Chika Ogiue Nozomi Yamamoto
The fifth and current president of Genshiken. Ogiue is a self confessed otaku hater and hates fujoshi in particular. Paradoxically she is a hardcore fujoshi herself and as a skilled artist has produced her own doujinshi. She is currently in a relationship with Sasahara.


Kanako Ohno Yukana
Genshiken's fourth president before passing the role along to Ogiue. Ohno is a cosplay fanatic, often roping those around her into the act. She also is a fujoshi, though her tastes run towards a specific type: muscular, middle-aged, exceedingly bald men. She is currently dating Tanaka.


Susanna Hopkins Naomi Hozora
Ohno's American friend who has moved to Japan to attend University. Sue has only a rough grasp of the Japanese language and as a result often speaks in quotes from various Anime and Manga. This makes her appear particularly rude and unsociable.


Manabu Kuchiki Jun Fukuyama
Kuchiki is loud, obnoxious and abrasive. He often gets himself into trouble by doing this that are either indecent or downright illegal. Serves mostly as background comedic relief.

NEW MEMBERS

Rika Yoshitake Sumire Uesaka
Merei Yajima Yumi Uchiyama
Yoshitake is bright, energetic and cheerfull. She is an unrepentant fujoshi. Yajima on the other hand is quiet and reserved, and while also a fujoshi is less blatant about it. Both joined Genshiken after seeing Oguie's artistic skills.


http://i.imgur.com/6Ffn9Fi.jpg
Kenjiro Hato Ai Kakuma Kazutomi Yamamoto
Hato is Genshiken's third new member. Like the other new members Hato loves yaoi and boy's love manga and doujinshi, however Hato is actually a guy in crossdress, making him a fudanshi.

OLD MEMBERS

Kanji Sasahara Tatsuya Kobashi
Genshiken's third president and primary protagonist of the first two seasons. Sasahara is originally a somewhat reserved otaku, but after meeting the members of Genshiken he eventually embraces his hobbies. Currently Sasahara has graduated and is working as a manga editor. He is also dating Ogiue.


Souichirou Tanaka Takayuki Kondou
Tanaka is a skilled costume designer and gunpla/plamo builder. He often makes costumes for his girlfriend Ohno as well as the other female members of Genshiken. Compared to his fellow former members he is fairly neutral in personality.
Mitsunori Kugayama Hiroki Yasumoto
Stuttering and heavyset, Kugayama is self conscious and while an artist of some skill, lacks the motivation to produce quality work in a timely fashion. Currently Kugayama has graduated and works at a medical device manufacturing company.
Harunobu Madarame Kazuyuki Okitsu
The second president of Genshiken, Madarame bills himself as the most hardcore otaku of the group. He is quite vocal about it hobbies and prone to ranting at length. Despite graduating and getting a job Madarame lives only five minutes away from the University and often drops in for his lunch break.


Saki Kasukabe Rina Satou
Originally an anti-otaku, Saki serves as antagonist for the first two seasons. Her presence in Genshiken a result of her attraction to Kousaka who she is currently dating. As the series progresses she becomes less against the groups interests and even participates in some of their events.
Makoto Kousaka Momoko Ohara
Unusually good looking and fashionable for an otaku, but perhaps the most hardcore of the group. Kousaka is perhaps most well known for his skill at fighting games. Currently he works as a programmer for and ero-game company.



Where can I watch this?
Crunchyroll is streaming it: here

The hell is a fujoshi?
This term is going to come up a lot this season, so here's the basics. Fujoshi translates literally to rotten girl and refers to female otaku who are particular fans of yaoi and boy-love themes.

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Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Let it be said that I enjoyed the references to Bakemonogatari in this episode more than I enjoyed the new episode of Monogatari itself. I... I don't know how to feel about that.

Fundamentally, I think there are two ways to view the predominantly female cast of the Second Generation. A) Shows about girls sell more so they're cashing it on that while at the same time being kind of meta about it or B) showing the otaku fandom from an entirely different perspective. Well, not that Ogiue's fujoshi tendencies were irrelevant before. I'm not sure which one I believe more.

I think one major misstep with this new season is the introduction of a "trap" character (Kuchiki certainly seems enthusiastic about this). One of Genshiken's selling points has always been it's basic grounding in reality. It's not completely realistic of course, but it's striven to maintain a "this could happen, somewhere" feel to it. Unless the show feels like tackling a huge mess of gender issues that aren't particularly relevant to the supposed subject matter of the series, such a character just seems out of place.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry

Clarste posted:

I think one major misstep with this new season is the introduction of a "trap" character (Kuchiki certainly seems enthusiastic about this). One of Genshiken's selling points has always been it's basic grounding in reality. It's not completely realistic of course, but it's striven to maintain a "this could happen, somewhere" feel to it. Unless the show feels like tackling a huge mess of gender issues that aren't particularly relevant to the supposed subject matter of the series, such a character just seems out of place.
You better get used to it because that character will be at the center of pretty much every story going forward.

The original 9 volume run of Genshiken was one of my all-time favorite manga comedies. Everything about the new version comes off as a sad and hollow imitation. It's heartbreaking.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012
So I hear that a lot of the show is references. It is still worth watching even if you don't get a lot of the references?

I had this issue with Nyarko since that's almost entirely japanese pop culture references and never got past the first episode.

e:vv Sounds good, I'll check it out.

ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jul 7, 2013

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
The original Genshiken run is legitimately a great comedy regardless of the references. Even if you don't get all of them, the misadventures of an anime club should be fairly universal to anyone.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
The references aren't really used as a source of humor so much as a subtle way of attaching you to the characters. If you get them then by definition you're closer to them since you've seen the same shows as them. When you're telling a story about anime fans that sort of authenticity is appreciated. But even if you're not a hardcore fan who gets all the references, it's still a story about people.

Sonata Mused
Feb 19, 2013

I'll show you... a nightmare...
Man, while I love Genshiken, I'm not so sure about replacing the entire cast.

I mean, FukuJun is alright, but Kuchiki just isn't the same anymore.

Madarame sure the hell isn't the same without Nobuyuki Hiyama behind him.

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Clarste posted:

Let it be said that I enjoyed the references to Bakemonogatari in this episode more than I enjoyed the new episode of Monogatari itself. I... I don't know how to feel about that.

Fundamentally, I think there are two ways to view the predominantly female cast of the Second Generation. A) Shows about girls sell more so they're cashing it on that while at the same time being kind of meta about it or B) showing the otaku fandom from an entirely different perspective. Well, not that Ogiue's fujoshi tendencies were irrelevant before. I'm not sure which one I believe more.

I think one major misstep with this new season is the introduction of a "trap" character (Kuchiki certainly seems enthusiastic about this). One of Genshiken's selling points has always been it's basic grounding in reality. It's not completely realistic of course, but it's striven to maintain a "this could happen, somewhere" feel to it. Unless the show feels like tackling a huge mess of gender issues that aren't particularly relevant to the supposed subject matter of the series, such a character just seems out of place.

(Manga spoilers) In regards to Hato, yes, it sort of is. It's played for laughs at times but it's really obvious that Hato has Issues regarding his sexuality and despite his insistence that he's 100% straight, a lot of his character development has focused on his budding crush on Madarame and his refusal to acknowledge it. Not all of that development is positive, and he even does some pretty selfish stuff because of it, though not having known any transgender or homosexual individuals myself I can't actually comment on the accuracy of the thoughts that run through his head. It's one of the things I like a lot about the series, that a lot of other people seem to hate for some reason.

Besides, the subject matter of Genshiken is the Genshiken--that is, the club members themselves. Kio Shimoku's focus has always been on young people and their relationships, their worries, the mistakes they make and the problems they run into, etc. The wacky otaku rituals and preferences, the anime references, and to a certain extent even the characters being otaku, they're just a setting, there so that Kio can plonk a lot of different young people in there and have them interact.

Kio's other work has traditionally been very heavy, tackling issues like single parenthood and failed relationships, and I personally think a lot of that shows in the more serious moments of Genshiken even though a lot of it is comedy as well. On the other hand I can see how if you only knew about him from Genshiken, you'd think that he doesn't know what he wants to do with the series (an opinion with which I respectfully disagree). I also think that people who enjoyed Genshiken and only took away the otaku club part of it are more prone to being frustrated by seeing characters interacting with each other in the setting of an otaku club instead of actually being an otaku club, if you get my drift.

AnonSpore fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jul 8, 2013

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

The original Genshiken was good until it became all fujoshi all the time so I really don't have much hope for this season.

Kolos
Jul 19, 2009
I gave up reading the manga of genshinken a couple of months ago, it was that bad (at least for me)

Daedalus1134
Sep 14, 2005

They see me rollin'


As someone who liked the other seasons but never read any of the manga, I enjoyed the first episode.

The new cast seems fine to me, but I hope we keep seeing occasional glimpses of the old cast. Seeing Madarame acting like "are we really doing this?" while still nailing the Bakemonogatari sketch was funny. Kuchiki is still an obnoxious poo poo, but I think that's kind of the point.

I'm interested to see where they go with Hato, he's obviously into yaoi, I just hope he doesn't turn into TOO many tropes.

edit: Bridget cosplay must be done.

Daedalus1134 fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 8, 2013

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Clarste posted:

I think one major misstep with this new season is the introduction of a "trap" character (Kuchiki certainly seems enthusiastic about this). One of Genshiken's selling points has always been it's basic grounding in reality. It's not completely realistic of course, but it's striven to maintain a "this could happen, somewhere" feel to it. Unless the show feels like tackling a huge mess of gender issues that aren't particularly relevant to the supposed subject matter of the series, such a character just seems out of place.
Wait, how is this unrealistic?

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Kolos posted:

I gave up reading the manga of genshinken a couple of months ago, it was that bad (at least for me)

You are not alone, since the manga re-started it became just plain bad. Not even amusing, just bad.

Soylentbits
Apr 2, 2007

im worried that theyre setting her up to be jotaros future wife or something.

trucutru posted:

You are not alone, since the manga re-started it became just plain bad. Not even amusing, just bad.

Yeah it's pretty hard to argue with this. It has no more realistic loser nerds. Now the characters seem to just be the sum of their gimmicks and their desire to sleep with Madarame.

How on Earth do you consider Saki an antagonist? Disliking their nerd lifestyle does not make her an antagonist.

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


I really have been enjoying the manga, though I really only started when a friend shoved the second generation stuff in front of me.

Watching this first episode I have to say it is dissapointing that Hato has a completely different voice actor for his male voice because the two sound really dissimilar and it was really jarring when it swapped for a moment in the first episode. Took me completely out of the show.

Still, the story is great and I look forward to seeing it animated.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Endorph posted:

Wait, how is this unrealistic?

It's not unrealistic per se, but it changes the genre of the show because treating it realistically requires diverting a lot of focus to it. Just ignoring it would be unrealistic.

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


trucutru posted:

You are not alone, since the manga re-started it became just plain bad. Not even amusing, just bad.

It definitely feels like the two parts of the manga are supposed to appeal to different audiences. I couldn't stand what seemed like the otaku glorification at the beginning of the manga, but I love the fujoshi club and the drama. To be fair, the amount of plot that focuses on Hato does get a little out of hand when I wish the mangaka would focus on some of the other characters a bit more.

Manga chat that involves much later stuff: I felt like the story would've been more interesting to me if Hato remained straight, but my inner fujoshi is rooting for MadaramexHato.

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Soylentbits posted:

Yeah it's pretty hard to argue with this. It has no more realistic loser nerds. Now the characters seem to just be the sum of their gimmicks and their desire to sleep with Madarame.

I think I'll take a gander at this. Who was a realistic loser nerd in Genshiken? Tanaka? Hardly fleshed out at all; all we know about him is that he likes making outfits and plamodels, and is good with cameras. Oh and by the way he has a banging hot girlfriend. Kugayama? Sure, maybe, but he's about as two-dimensional as they come--his entire gimmick was "fat and draws." The first pres? A walking plot device to keep Saki in the Genshiken who disappeared without a trace soon afterwards. Madarame is still the focus in the new series, even moreso than he was in the first.

Besides, I would argue that "realistic loser nerds" wasn't and isn't the focus of Genshiken anyway. The Genshiken itself was sort of a metaphor for being an awkward young person growing up, feeling like you don't have a place in the world. That's why Ohno mentions that all the Genshiken alumni are weirdos; they didn't fit even in the "weird people group" of the world, which in the setting would be the university's Manga Club, and therefore had to make a place all for themselves. In that sense, all the new members fit right in.

(Lots of manga spoilers) Hato is constantly wrestling with his sexual orientation issues, which have recently manifested as an unhealthy obsession with Madarame. I dunno why people see this as a bad thing, though, or how this problem he has which is approached from multiple angles can be seen as nothing but a gimmick. His character, the perfect crossdressing guy who can pass as a girl and loves BL, may be unrealistic, but the doubts that he wrestles with are far from being so--they're deeply involved with finding his place in the world and struggling with the fear that he's not like everyone else, which are things that everyone has faced while growing up.

Yajima is like the definition of realistic loser nerd, and she's fleshed out to a degree far beyond anything that Kugayama or Tanaka ever got. She's a really interesting character to me, because so many of her mannerisms stem from her awkwardness in regards to social interaction and her extremely low self-esteem, and is anyone seriously overlooking the tons of characterization she gets simply because she's fat and that makes her a Kugayama expy or something? In a way her crush on Hato is a lot like Madarame's own crush on Saki, except the barrier here isn't the normal/otaku divide but the very obvious difference in their looks, and to someone like Yajima that matters a ton. And her self-loathing is very old school otaku, especially in her refusal to let down her guard except inside the club room, and her view of her own hobby as something that very much is something to be ashamed of.

Yoshitake is a new breed of otaku, one that exists now but didn't when Genshiken was running before. She's trendy, outgoing, proud of her hobby instead of being ashamed of it. But at the core, she's still an otaku, with a poor grasp of social dos and don'ts that often bites her in the rear end. She's admittedly the flattest of the new blood but she still gets a lot of characterization--scenes with her sister, scenes about her past before she came to the Genshiken, etc. She's not just this person who happens to share the same club room and goes to the Comic Festival with everyone else, which was the case with a lot of the old cast. And she brings her own sort of twist to the feeling of "people who don't quite fit in" the Genshiken has going on, especially in her quieter moments.


I could go on but I'm rambling already so I'll cut it short at the main three new people.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
^^^ A agree with you on Yajima, she's by far the most interesting of the new members. The others? Not so much. And the problem with Hato is not his issues with cross-dressing or sexual orientation but that the author keeps shoveling him down our throats

Potsticker posted:

It definitely feels like the two parts of the manga are supposed to appeal to different audiences. I couldn't stand what seemed like the otaku glorification at the beginning of the manga, but I love the fujoshi club and the drama. To be fair, the amount of plot that focuses on Hato does get a little out of hand when I wish the mangaka would focus on some of the other characters a bit more.

Manga chat that involves much later stuff: I felt like the story would've been more interesting to me if Hato remained straight, but my inner fujoshi is rooting for MadaramexHato.

That could be it because I just went and read the last 10 or so chapters to get up to date and the only interesting (to me) things that happen deal with generation1 characters. If you are writing a character-based story you need interesting characters, and, from my point of view, generation2 is pretty much screwed in that area. Even their gimmicks are lame.

At least the amount of Hato in "Genshiken: the Hato years" has gone down a little.

trucutru fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jul 9, 2013

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


trucutru posted:

That could be it because I just went and read the last 10 or so chapters to get up to date and the only interesting (to me) things that happen deal with generation1 characters. If you are writing a character-based story you need interesting characters, and, from my point of view, generation2 is pretty much screwed in that area. Even their gimmicks are lame.

At least the amount of Hato in "Genshiken: the Hato years" has gone down a little.

Well, if you just read that much, you probably missed the introductions to the new characters, and you're already invested in the old ones so it doesn't surprise me that you had that sort of reaction.

A lot of what AnonSpore said is true for me, too. Yajima at the very least has a really compelling story and the stuff with her that doesn't involve Hato is interesting to read. Not that relationship she has with Hato is uninteresting, especially at the beginning, but the Hato fatigue definitely brings things down a bit. Hopefully the anime won't dive too heavily into that. Do we know how much this Second Generation anime is supposed to cover?


vvvvv Oh, I misunderstood, then. Sorry.

Potsticker fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jul 9, 2013

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Potsticker posted:

Well, if you just read that much, you probably missed the introductions to the new characters, and you're already invested in the old ones so it doesn't surprise me that you had that sort of reaction.

A lot of what AnonSpore said is true for me, too. Yajima at the very least has a really compelling story and the stuff with her that doesn't involve Hato is interesting to read. Not that relationship she has with Hato is uninteresting, especially at the beginning, but the Hato fatigue definitely brings things down a bit. Hopefully the anime won't dive too heavily into that. Do we know how much this Second Generation anime is supposed to cover?

No, I have read the whole thing. I just read 10 chapters or so that were released since I stopped reading Genshiken due to a Hato-related malaise. Yajima is cool. The others? not so much.

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"

Potsticker posted:

Well, if you just read that much, you probably missed the introductions to the new characters, and you're already invested in the old ones so it doesn't surprise me that you had that sort of reaction.

A lot of what AnonSpore said is true for me, too. Yajima at the very least has a really compelling story and the stuff with her that doesn't involve Hato is interesting to read. Not that relationship she has with Hato is uninteresting, especially at the beginning, but the Hato fatigue definitely brings things down a bit. Hopefully the anime won't dive too heavily into that. Do we know how much this Second Generation anime is supposed to cover?

There's only one episode out so it's hard to say for certain, but at two chapters per episode and taking into account the fact that Kaminaga has a voice actress, it'll at least reach the late 70s and probably come to an end around chapter 80 or so, which is a very nice place to end. With any luck the extra anime DVDs being bundled with volume 15 and the Second Season blu-rays will cover the part in between the first run and the second that were skipped, namely the Karuizawa arc (Sasahara and Ogiue's development).


^^ Can you explain what exactly you dislike so much about Hato? I see a lot of that sentiment and it always seems to boil down to him getting too much screen time, or him being unable to make up his mind about his issues. To the first, I have to wonder why (manga story spoilers) Madarame isn't getting similar heat, since half of Hato's thoughts revolve entirely around him anyway, and the other major plot thread in the series is also his. And as for not making up his mind, wouldn't it be weird if such a huge thing as "I think I might be gay, or at least bisexual" was wrapped up just like that? Of course he flip-flops back and forth about it, of course he denies it and then goes back on his decisions. Again, I haven't had any gay acquaintances so I can't say if it's an accurate portrayal of that specifically, but Hato's exasperating back-and-forth very closely mirrors other experiences I've had or observed where people try their damndest to look for any explanation for a problem they're facing except the one they fear most.

AnonSpore fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jul 9, 2013

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


Maybe I'm being too harsh on Hato, since I don't dislike him at all. Hato's struggles are really interesting and learning about his past and why he dresses specifically like he does. My only problem is how much it dominates over the other members' own personal stories.

Edit: Oh, I'm dumb, those arrows look like you were asking trucutru instead.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

AnonSpore posted:


^^ Can you explain what exactly you dislike so much about Hato? I see a lot of that sentiment and it always seems to boil down to him getting too much screen time, or him being unable to make up his mind about his issues.

That's pretty much it, way too much focus on him. The problem with Hato is that he's just not interesting enough to be able to carry so much screen time. I sympathize with his issues but, by the tenth time we have yet another character that nooo waaaayyyyy! she's not a girl?! it gets tiring.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
I mainly feel like the original Genshiken cast was well balanced and played off and/or complemented each other quite well. It also had a lot more relatable issues, with the Saki vs. everyone else theme being the heart and soul of most of the story. I mean, you had a prominent fujoshi character, so it's not like that aspect was completely ignored until the second generation. Even setting that aside, the new cast is overall much more ~wacky~ with their gimmicks taken up to 11.

Regarding Hato's issues, Shimoku Kio is not exactly Takako Shimura and it is handled in a way that very much fetishizes it, plays it for laughs, and panders. This might be OK if Hato was more of a side character, but by being the main character in all but name it's aggravating.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

Soylentbits posted:

How on Earth do you consider Saki an antagonist? Disliking their nerd lifestyle does not make her an antagonist.

She wanted to shut down anime club for like the entire first year!

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.
If you're looking for something more grounded you could always try the sequel/spinoff manga, Spotted Flower. It's about Madarame as a (spoilers for his future) married adult. http://mangafox.me/manga/spotted_flower/c001/1.html

Only eight chapters so far 'cause it comes out like quarterly or something horrible like that. But it's really good in a :unsmith: way.

Sonata Mused
Feb 19, 2013

I'll show you... a nightmare...
Did the Second Generation manga end? It's been a long time since I saw any translated chapters go up at all.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry

XboxPants posted:

If you're looking for something more grounded you could always try the sequel/spinoff manga, Spotted Flower. It's about Madarame as a (spoilers for his future) married adult. http://mangafox.me/manga/spotted_flower/c001/1.html

Only eight chapters so far 'cause it comes out like quarterly or something horrible like that. But it's really good in a :unsmith: way.
It's actually pretty awful and even more of a fetish story than Genshiken The Next Generation. E: Also pretty sure that isn't Madarame.

Potsticker
Jan 14, 2006


The best part of that is the grandmother suggesting names for the baby. :allears:

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.

Nate RFB posted:

It's actually pretty awful and even more of a fetish story than Genshiken The Next Generation. E: Also pretty sure that isn't Madarame.

Around chapter 4 & 5 it seemed like it was taking a turn for the better, but looking now I can see that it went straight back into fetish territory. It could really be a great slice-of-life story if it toned things down even a little bit.

Regarding the main guy, he's never named, but it's implied. It's left vague enough that you can take it however you want to, though. It's definitely much more of a "what-if" than what I originally said.

Amstrad
Apr 4, 2007

To destroy evil you must become an even greater evil.

Namtab posted:

Soylentbits posted:

How on Earth do you consider Saki an antagonist? Disliking their nerd lifestyle does not make her an antagonist.
She wanted to shut down anime club for like the entire first year!

Yeah, pretty much this. She's vocally hateful and abusive to most of the club members and would have nothing to do with them if not for her interest in Kousaka. Her character changes a lot in the end, but that doesn't change the fact she acted in opposition to the group for quite some time.

XboxPants posted:

If you're looking for something more grounded you could always try the sequel/spinoff manga, Spotted Flower. It's about Madarame as a (spoilers for his future) married adult. http://mangafox.me/manga/spotted_flower/c001/1.html

I don't think it's ever been confirmed that the guy in this is Madarame. The similarities are there, but it's too vague to be sure.

Amstrad fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jul 9, 2013

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.

Amstrad posted:

I don't think it's ever been confirmed that the guy in this is Madarame. The similarities are there, but it's too vague to be sure.

(I'm not sure how to handle this, since it's sort of a non-canon possible future, but I'll just play it safe)
Yeah, though they all but spell out that the girl is Saki. Had done the same Kujibiki cosplay, her last boyfriend was an Otaku, also named by her grandmother, etc. Someone that could possibly even be Ohno shows up.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
It can be said that it's those two characters in a future what-if scenario with the serial numbers filed off. It's not them, but it's probably them.

Ultraklystron
May 19, 2010

Unsafe At Every Speed
Kudos to this thread (and I guess then to the anime) for getting me to catch up on the Genshiken manga.

Taking that all in as a shot, it seems to me that while Hato dominates the flow of the group, that's not necessarily unrealistic given the characters at hand vs. his issues. He's the only one of the main cast who really seems to have an internal conflict, where as all of the new blood and the old blood seem to have come to terms with their fandom and sense of self a long time ago (or so they think.) In this sense, Hato is set up to be the Ogiue or Sasahara of this generation of Genshiken because his character journey towards self-acceptance is the key instigator of development in any other character, just as it often was with the central characters of the older arcs. Like those two, Hato is coming to terms with where his fantasies stop and start and what they mean, and unlike with Ogiue or Sasahara, I don't think the out boils down to the right set of friends and social skill improvement being a cure all, which is a nice shift of pace for Genshiken. Some of the give will have to come from the other characters. Plus, the character development does really pick up as the chapters go by: the most recent half dozen chapters of Nidaime were almost heart breaking to read because Hato's sexual and gender confusion feel genuine, and he really doesn't seem capable of handling those feelings anymore. Something that was deeply repressed is coming loose, and the exploration of that is going to be pretty satisfying, though emotionally heavy.

Plus, Hato provides a character that might make a move on Madarame that Madarame can reject, which brings symmetry to Madarame as a character. Now that he's been directly rejected by Saki, it seems like a solid piece of character progress for him to break a heart, and really, Hato provides the ultimate excuse for Madarame to reject a character. I don't think a no would be as much of a given in any other situation.

Beyond that, Kio's now really setting up Yajima to confess to Hato lately, and that whole situation seems like rich with opportunities for character development as well. As happy as Yajima seems with her own fujoshi-dom, Hato challenges her world view by being a good friend/nice person, but also a BL-loving crossdresser. She seems to be gradually falling for Hato because of this, but I have to wonder if Hato will also end up being someone who rejects a confession.


Basically, I'm really looking forward to the rest of the anime (it definitely seems like IG is doing a lovely job of it so far, down to the judo skills of Hato,) and I'm glad I'm back into the manga. Kio may tread a fine line here, but it seems to be working out to me.

Edit: So I've killed the thread. Figures. Anyway, the second episode was rather clever with how it rearranged the flow of chapters to hone in on Hato's development and Ogiue's manga debut story line, and it looks like similar shifts may be in order to tighten together Madarame's development. Depending on how they pace the adaptation and elements are tightened, they could conceivably animate all but the most recent 4-8 chapters of the manga. I'm definitely curious to see where IG will call it quits.

Ultraklystron fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Jul 14, 2013

Sonata Mused
Feb 19, 2013

I'll show you... a nightmare...
Second episode is out.

What the hell is this opening? What the crap is this ending?

WHERE IS MY MANZO?

;_____;
http://youtu.be/eD4sX8FqpSQ

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009

Sonata Mused posted:

Second episode is out.

What the hell is this opening? What the crap is this ending?

WHERE IS MY MANZO?

;_____;
http://youtu.be/eD4sX8FqpSQ
Glad you brought it up first, but drat if this doesn't illustrate the curve; Awesome OP, Awesome OP but bugger if I know what's supposed to be happening, this nonsense

AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"
The second OP's animation sequence was a Gundam parody and it was honestly mediocre as a song in my opinion. The current OP is alright, though I was pretty ambivalent about it until I bothered to listen to the lyrics. I will agree that the current ending blows though.

Amstrad
Apr 4, 2007

To destroy evil you must become an even greater evil.

AnonSpore posted:

The second OP's animation sequence was a Gundam parody and it was honestly mediocre as a song in my opinion. The current OP is alright, though I was pretty ambivalent about it until I bothered to listen to the lyrics. I will agree that the current ending blows though.

I quite like the second OP. But I imagine it's mostly due to the fact it's a Gundam parody in both animation and music.

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ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009

Oh hey, I Just noticed this on my PS3 watch of the last epiosde.

Ogiue is starting a british DVD collection.

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