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WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Anybody here play Astronarch? It's kind of an autobattler take on a Roguelike and kinda fun.

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WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Captain Foo posted:

I put a lot of time into it and beat ascension 20 before the patches that changed it, added omens, nerfed speed buffs a lot, and added the screwy final boss

I had a lot of fun with it, still don’t know how to use some of the classes optimally!

I have the same problem, I kinda get stuck using the Assassin a lot because he's so good and just ignore some of the other dps as result.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Saw some chat about blade assault earlier and I was thinking about picking it up.

How long is each run and how's the map/enemy variety? I'm not a big fan of platforming in my roguelikes so I bounced off of dead cells for reference.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Yeah the original FTL unlock method was garbage unless you put hundreds of hours into the game. I went after crystal for a week and never lined up the quest line.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


IronicDongz posted:

This doesn't seem accurate to me. They don't appear in many rooms but it's not uncommon to get 2-3 of them per room. I'd expect to kill around 4-6 per run, sometimes more if several show up in an elite fight.

Right, but it doesn't matter if you're not ever killing them with corrosion damage unless you go out of your way to do so. And they're not weak to it, so why would you unless you already know about the unlock?
Killing lobsters with fire is slow, but at least it's something that happens naturally.

...it's not about the fire DoT. It's about the fact that fire damage innately does 50% more damage to red HP, which all bosses have either primarily or exclusively.

And comparing a basic elemental effect to a fusion effect doesn't really make sense, the fair comparison would be comparing something like Combustion(which lets the shot that proc'd it effectively do 300% damage).

Lobsters were that rare in single player at least earlier on. When I unlocked demonlore in early access, lobsters only spawn in the last section of act 3 and certain elite rooms. There were many many runs where I only got 2 lobsters showing up. And in multiplayer you better hope everybody had a fire gun or else you're not getting any credit.

But I agree that fire weapons kick rear end, I really like firescale, demonlore, and dual fang. Of the three elements, I think lightning native ones were by far the worst and I rarely have lightning except with mods. The only lightning gun that is "good" is the pupil?

WarpedLichen fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 20, 2022

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Oh hell yeah, people are talking about Astonarch. I love that game.

I never came back to it after they tweaked the max difficulty mode but I had a lot of fun with it.

There were definitely some characters who felt very weak and some that felt busted. I think assassin was mvp for most of my runs.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Captain Foo posted:

Astronarch kicks rear end

:hmmyes:

Just picked up Tiny Rogues, is it just me or do melee weapons suck? It seems like on the runs I win I usually have a gun/bow that deletes enemies before I can even see them. My reflexes are way too slow to avoid projectiles when I'm using a sword.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Jack Trades posted:

What counts as "adjacent" in Astronarch?

Pretty sure it means in the same "big" square of 4. That's why assassin is so good, since you can stick him in the other one and he's pretty much self sufficient and will only ever die to counter damage.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


No Wave posted:

But that's entirely different. A run being realistically unwinnable is totally understandable to be in the game (and no one has winstreaked 20 rotating ever). But strict mathematical impossibility is something else entirely and requires egregious unfairness.

I mean there is at least one mathematically unwinnable Slay the Spire seed out there.

https://oohbleh.github.io/losing-seed/

But I think StS makes a good argument for the max difficulty higher than most conventional game designers thinks it should be at. I think at the highest difficulty, you should not expect even top players to win every game, that's probably tuned a bit too low. 4 suit Spider Solitaire was my old addiction and that has like 99% of all games are winnable with save-scumming, but the average player probably wins 30% and experienced players win 50% of the time. This leaves depth to be plumbed for the most frequent players. It does seem like the StS streamers are getting really drat good at the game and are probably in the 70%+ win rate now but I still count myself lucky to get a A20 win in a couple runs. I don't think having 10% of runs being absolute duds is that bad in game with a lot of RNG if it creates depth at the top end. If it's like 50% of the runs are unwinnable from the get go, that definitely seems like a design mistake.

Unrelated note, I wish there was an Autobattler thread, I'm also really enjoying Backpack Battles and I still play Super Autopets regularly.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


TooMuchAbstraction posted:

This is something I've been thinking about for my match-3 roguelike as well. It has a broadly similar limited possibility space, in that each turn, your available actions are constrained by a) which spells you have equipped, and b) which tokens are on the match-3 board for you to make matches with (which provide the magical energy that cause the spells to be cast). For example:

https://i.imgur.com/vGQYudo.mp4

here the player matches enough energy to cast Fireflash and Pulverise, so they go off (Pulverise doesn't have a casting animation implemented yet). The excess 1 Fire, 1 Earth energy is stored in Flood.

The problems I see are:

1. The more spells you have equipped, the harder it becomes to cast any one spell. This isn't a huge concern when you only have four spells, since they can divide the available elements between them, but...
2. Only having a small number of spells equipped limits the variety of things you can do. Your build is probably going to be 75% the spells you have equipped, 25% the relics you've acquired. I fear that could result in gameplay feeling pretty repetitive within a run, even if there's plenty of spells to provide variety across runs.

My envisioned actions that the player can take are basically:
1. Step to adjacent tile
2. Teleport to nearby tile (with a cooldown on the teleport)
3. Perform matches and cast spells
4. Re-order spells to control which ones are prioritized for receiving match energy

I like that from a simplicity of control standpoint, I just worry that there's not enough room for deep gameplay there.

You probably have played/were inspired by some of the Match 3 RPGs like Puzzle Quest, but I'll just bring it up just in case for how skills work there (namely that you store mana and choose to cast them)

That's a neat idea to combine the roguelike movement turn with the puzzle mechanic though, wish you best of luck.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Playing RoR returns and while I liked RoR 1 there's just something clunky after coming back to play Returns, especially on controller. The movement feels unresponsive when platforming and the addition of move and shoot just feels off since you can't really control the facing easily.

I'm gonna stick with it or move back to keyboard, but it's not clicking like it did before.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Beat a run on Risk of Rain Returns! with 2x player damage

It felt weird that bosses were melting but regular enemies still felt insanely tanky. I have no idea how good I have to get to beat the game regularly.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Cobalt Core is as good as people are describing, I'm not sure how much of that is the actual card game which feels fiddly - there's a lot of seemingly garbage cards - but the writing is absolutely carrying it so far.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


It feels like the unlockable ships are really the sauce behind some of the other characters. Isaac kinda blows on the starting ship but on the Jupiter he can really cook.

Ares/Jupiter also enables some balls out attack decks which are cool.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Tiny Rogues is pretty fun but it felt like a lot of the traits were really bad compared to the good ones and I was really never good enough to beat Megadeath or even Death unless I get a pretty good weapon/trait combo.

Hopefully the extra options lean towards good rather than bad.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Got all the memories in Cobalt Core and I thought the end sequence was really sweet but there's something very lacking about the gameplay without the story to look forward to.

1. Lack of variety - same old enemies every path, same bosses, and pretty boring node pathing
2. Small numbers limit the game - upgrades often make cards much much better like 33% to 100% or more - combined with small starting deck size, you really want to keep lean and see your upgraded cards as much as possible
3. Evade is too good and shield is almost an afterthought - you basically can't do anything without consistent sources of evade. Low shield cap (can be lower on hardest) and ridiculous enemy damage makes pure shield pretty bad

What I think would make the game better:
1. visible enemy move distance
2. some amount of free move per turn
3. make extra movement slightly more expensive
4. double temp shield generation and throw it around more
5. less base damage on enemies but harder to dodge patterns

But still overall a great experience thanks to the writing, just one I probably won't keep coming back to/play to death like StS.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Been doing some runs of Tiny Rogues now and it's been pretty fun, got the Infernal and Heaven thrones done, but it said the Abyss still isn't available?

I'm not sure what the exactly all the new mechanics work, anybody got any tips for the best things to spend on the metaprogression stuff?

Also Troubadour and Instruments seem super weak because the weapons suck and you only get one song at a time, am I missing something?

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Snooze Cruise posted:

I mean they only last 10 floors and making them permanent means you can choose a food/currency/etc room instead of picking another one up. Also saves you inventory space which is another benefit.

Yeah, potions are good enough and last short enough that Mage Blood is absolutely worth it. If you don't have Mage Blood I wouldn't risk a potion room in floor 11 or 12 just because the chance of a random potion is probably not worth the stats.

Early game when it's competing with gold/bombs/keys? Absolutely.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Tried out Spell Rogue and it seems pretty fun. I'm not very good at it yet and I dislike how the one game I played ended up being just use all your cards at the end because things like rerolled dice seem insane compared to everything else, but there seems to be a lot of variety in starting loadouts and classes.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


DrManiac posted:

How does Spell Rogue compare to dicy dungeons?

I would say so far it seems like the spells in SpellRogue seem like there's more going on - lots of passive abilities to gain and stack, lots more getting extra dice, lots more stacks.

The downside is that I would say that each run is longer and Dicey Dungeons has a lot of charm and personality whereas SpellRogue just kinda falls flat on that front.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


I am not having any luck with the Fire Mage in SpellRogue - unlike the other two his basic dice manipulation kinda sucks and I never get enough defense going to survive the end game.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


victrix posted:

doing a run with him is actually what made me put it down, I was a couple levels into the ascension system or whatever

stack weakness, double weakness, spell that does 3 then 5 damage per weakness, nothing can hurt you next turn because they're all debuffed with weakness (or just dead if it's a single target)

everything died in one hit, I could have one shot the last boss if it didn't phase

there was no gameplay there, it was as interesting as a five card infinite deck

That's true, I've noticed that for the runs I win, I basically have set up an engine to do everything every turn so there's basically no moment to moment tactical decisions once you have it setup.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Azran posted:

The thing with dice and videogames is that you have total freedom to edit the sides on a die in a way you can't physically. Making it a dice allocation game that plays it completely straight is kind of a waste IMO

I think if you do that you kinda lose the intuitiveness of having dice in the first place. Like I thought slice and dice's items that modify specific sides is about as weird as I can handle before you might as well just do percentages some other way.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


unattended spaghetti posted:

No. The cat lord is grade A bullshit. Straight up. Nethack might have a lot of idiosyncratic stuff, but it all follows a kind of logic. Cat lord is just gently caress you with very little recourse. Unless—I admit my ADoM knowledge is pretty lacking—there’s some kind of reasonable hint tucked away in there somewhere.

It is funny though.

I mean you're pretty much expected to fight the Cat Lord if you ever encounter him and you're new to the game. You can sorta guess that he could potentially be friendly based on his description:

quote:

It is to this magnificent creature that all the cats of Ancardia pledge loyalty, and it is him who will avenge their wrongful deaths. He is tall and lean, walking upright, and covered in short, tawny fur. A set of claws emerges from one paw, and his tufted tail begins to twitch. His brilliant yellow eyes grow cold as he looks at you, perhaps looking for his subjects' blood upon your hands.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


William Henry Hairytaint posted:

I know I'm in the absolute minority but I thought Dwarf Fortress was kinda ruined by the z-axis. It being all on one layer forced you to grow organically because of limited space, and that's how you ended up with labyrinthian ant farms like Boatmurdered, where there are levers you don't pull because you don't know what it does anymore.

I thought it was a fairly common opinion at the time? The game itself was made significantly worse when the z-level was introduced. It kinda removed the natural flow of the game for more "realism."

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Tea Party Crasher posted:

Anyone playing that new backpack battles game? I'm having a good time with it. I'm glad someone finally looked at the resident evil 4 briefcase inventory and went "This could just be the whole game"

I love that game, I even asked for somebody to make the autobattler thread to talk about it but it died tragically:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4047976

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


I kinda played a little TOME but the runs were so long. I never did figure out itemization either so my runs usually died to random things after the Orc caves.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


I guess bosses in Slay the Spire and Balatro are like that though I'm not sure how much in the genre they are.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Last Spell is great game but one run is grueling, just beating the original set of maps took me 80+ hours. I'm not sure I have the stamina to play through apocs and unlock more stuff.

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WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


I mean Pokemon Showdown has somehow survived this whole time.

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