|
Greek leftie that doesn't think violence is the answer here. Saying that non-violence just gets you killed doesn't really build up an argument in support of violence. Anti-fascist violence is understandable, and as an act in itself is not necessarily a bad thing (as long as it doesn't lead to murder anyway). But you have to consider the bigger picture, you have to consider antifascist violence as a strategy, and its merits in that regard. What a lot of people here are doing is a knee-jerk "bash the fash" reaction fuelled by little more than anger. It's good for venting out, but it doesn't really provide a clear vision as to how to get rid of the fascist elements other than a vague promise of disintegration by virtue of the violence's (presumably successful) application. And it's true that there's other examples of that happening before such as Cable Street. But the times since have changed. Yes the political situation has regressed and in many ways resembles the '30s, but there are points where the resemblance stops: Greece in 2013 is not Britain in 1936. You have a political system that feels threatened by the left and is eager to attribute to it any misbehaviour by non-conforming elements. You have a police that isn't merely lukewarm towards the fascists, you have a police that in large part overlaps with them. These are fascists with organisational experience, with means, with the backing of the establishment as a potential buffer against the left. "Unprovoked" violence against them thus would not serve to harm them, but to strengthen them (please note the quotation marks around unprovoked, I do find everything about the GD provocative). It would play right into the government's portrayal of SYRIZA as one of the "two extremes", and the Golden Dawn has grown enough that it can probably recover from a blow such as that. This is not about maintaining a moral high ground so that one can feel good about one's self. It's about maintaining a moral high ground so that you cannot be vilified.
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2013 12:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
I honestly don't know how the Golden Dawn can be managed in current conditions. Obviously you combat extremism by attacking its roots, but these roots are the economic situation of the time which is seemingly unmanageable (and certainly not something the current government and the EU want to handle in any actually effective way because "beep-boop I'm an austerity robot cut cut cut"). I feel like they might lose support over this, however. I hate to say this because it's really loving unfair, but the sort of martyrdom that Physsas is an example of might be the best way to expose the Golden Dawn for the ultra-violent gang of thugs they are.  Cerebral Bore posted:On the other hand, I don't really agree with the bolded conclusion. Since mass media is still in the hands of the capitalist class, vilification will happen regardless of the actions of the left. The question to me rather is how to counter the inevitable flood of bullshit that will intensify once the current government feels the reins really slipping out of their hands. Yes, the mass media which are supportive of the government and the establishment are trying to vilify the left/SYRIZA on every turn. But they are not very convincing at the moment. If the left turned to violence as a means to combat the rise of fascism more comprehensively than through reactions of the sort of the unguided mass protests after Physsas' murder it would validate these accusations, it would give them actual ground to stand on, and it would make people actually start believing them.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2013 15:16
|
|
|
You guys do not realise this do you? Get it in your heads, the police and the establishment are all too happy to beat up on the left. You want the left to attack the Golden Dawn, but if such an attack can be spun off as unprovoked there will be no hesitation, the state machinery will move from anti-left propaganda to actual repression. What you're calling for is not just an attack on Golden Dawn. It's also suicide. When the system succeeds in de-legitimising the anti-fascist forces, that's when the true bloodbath will begin. Pretty much the only time that violence works is in retribution, as in the protests these days after Physsas' murder. But some of you seem to think there can just be another Cable Street and that everyone will happily bash the fash and that will end the Golden Dawn and the fascists will stop beating up people and everyone will be happy forever after. I'm sorry to burst that bubble, but things are not that simple.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2013 23:18
|
|
|
staticman posted:I'm not advocating an offensive campaign against the Fascist (as much as we all would love to see the Fash get bashed) and it would be suicide if that happened, I'm simply asking what can be done. I there I wouldn't there's going to be sanctions against Greece if GD and police start start moving to the extermination phase of genocide. There's several things that can/need to happen to effectively fight off Golden Dawn. First, they need to be exposed for the scum they are. They are doing plenty of this on their own, but whatever media protection they have needs to go. Second, the police force needs to be neutralised. By this I literally mean "made neutral". It is a very valuable asset for the Golden Dawn as thanks to police support/overlap they can get away with a lot of things they do, while anti-fascists see zero tolerance. How this would happen is a mystery. Finally, and most importantly, the economy needs to recover, which requires an end to the doctrine of endless austerity. As long as people live in an economic depression as the one Greece is experiencing they'll be pushed to extremism, and forces such as the Golden Dawn will always receive support.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 21, 2013 00:05
|
|
|
darthzeta88 posted:It seems that the Greeks has been fascist for a lot longer than democratic. And banning sure does work. Look at the Muslims that are not here today. And I think Christianity was banned also once? Which Greeks? Do you count the dead? Because if so most people have been monarchist for a lot longer than democratic.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 25, 2013 17:22
|
|
|
Vernii posted:Institute political commissioners at each station with the ability to fire any cop on the spot who seems suspiciously pro-GD, and remind the entire police force that with the unemployment rate being what it is, there'll be plenty of people in line to fill their boots. You're hoping that Golden Dawn can claim martyrdom? 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 29, 2013 11:22
|
|
|
LngBolt posted:I've heard other people who say they're in Greece really emphasize point 1. I think there's a good chance the crackdown is honest, if not harsh. Fool yourself not though, the government is doing this in order to look good. They are simultaneously putting on an anti-fascist face, and at the same time I think they're trying to "fish" Golden Dawn voters who voted on a basis of racism (since on one hand the government didn't lift a finger while GD was targeting immigrants and on the other the government's treatment of immigrants itself is something to write home about for all the wrong reasons). Vernii posted:Let them claim it, martyrdom is overrated. Courage and anger are no match for bullets and tanks. Once enough of them are in graves the rest will scatter. Yeah, no, you can't convict the guilty by making them look innocent.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 30, 2013 11:34
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:As for this poster: Many of these people don't actually consider Greeks to be white/white enough so this is par for the course for this sort of racist bullshit.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2013 17:57
|
|
|
bpower posted:I'd love to know if these arrests were already on the way before the recent murder. If they weren't its really dodgy. Did they just find out this stuff recently or were they sitting on this information for ages? I don't know about the specific cases of the list, but the minister of public order just happened to send 32 reports on crimes by GD members committed over the past year during the outrage right after the murder. So I expect at least some of it was being sat on, how much I've no idea.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 1, 2013 23:35
|
|
|
Riso posted:I'd prefer a system where politicians have to be directly elected by their constituents, and not simply by party lists. Some direct democracy from Switzerland to allow citizen to force politicians to act on a certain topic would also be a very welcome change. While I agree that direct democracy Switzerland-style would be a good thing (despite whatever problems it might have), I am somewhat sceptical that the FPO campaigns for it out of some noble idealism and not because they think they can get things they want done with it. It's very easy to champion democracy when its winds shift to your favour.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2013 09:59
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:You are looking at the USA and think: "Yes, directly elected politicians are a good idea."? This is not a good attack on directly elected politicians because it hinges on the problems America and Britain have, which is that each electoral district only elects a single representative. As such it is criticism on FPTP and single-rep districts than anything else. In Greece for instance each district elects a number of representatives depending on its population. The district I was born in/vote in elects three, the district where I live (for my studies) elects only one, and the second Athens district, the biggest in the country, elects 42. We still have the problem with the 50 extra seats awarded to the first party, but I quite like the multi-rep districts we have and wouldn't want elections to be based on party lists.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2013 11:03
|
|
|
Emden posted:That's a laugh, because I'm pretty sure it's only going to end up worse for us. Our political parties don't care about us because we don't have money and are soon to be outnumbered by hispanic immigrants. Go read the GOP thread; white people are a losing bet. Not to mention the economy. Unions have been crushed by neoliberalism so there goes the good paying blue collar jobs. Shitheads like Gates and Jobs (before he died, any way) don't want to train us for white collar jobs but instead want the government to bring over Indians and Chinese with degrees. Education has been cut to ribbons so now you can either spend eight years getting a 4 year degree by working a job and taking classes piece by piece or by taking out huge loans. Of course if you're even slightly brown they will hand you the world for nothing. Maybe if you stopped hating people you could work together to improve working conditions. But then if you did that you might catch their pigment and no-one would want that.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 1, 2013 08:52
|
|
|
Well poo poo. Two Golden Dawn members were murdered outside some of their party offices. This isn't going to end well.Emden posted:So you think intelligence and employment are connected, hmm? Interesting hypothesis... You are really not making a very good case for your own intelligence if you think that that's the reason African American unemployment is higher.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 1, 2013 21:15
|
|
|
EndofGoogle posted:Speaking of fascists, it seem antifa/immigrants/etc are finally getting some balls Murdering people is not "waking up", it's being a dumbass idiot. Even if these people are fascists. Because morality aside, you are loving legitimately victimising them and helping them attract popular sympathy.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2013 02:01
|
|
|
Maybe you don't realise it, but Greece is not the USA. We do not live in any sort of relative prosperity. In a country with over 30% unemployment, where living standards have been going downhill for the past four years and keep going down like that, and in which the political elite has lost pretty much all credibility, people are sympathising with the nazis regardless. They are trying to pass themselves off as the good boys who will take Greece back, that they're on the side of the oppressed and the victimised. Legitimately victimising them on top by committing loving murder is only going to reinforce that. They want to be hated and excluded from institutions because that reinforces their image as an untainted, pure group that's just looking out for Greece's best interests. Beating up and killing fascists like this in some sort of ideological crusade is a dumb idiot tactic that will work about as well as the war on terror has. And on a personal level, I'm frankly disgusted by it, and fail to see how it's not the left-wing equivalent of the "good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun" vigilante fantasies.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2013 02:28
|
|
|
TJO posted:I imagine you'd feel less disgusted if you or yours was one of the targeted people. Fascist groups succeed because they redirect legitimate anger towards weak targets, they present a narrative blaming X non-power group and try to legitimise hurting them as a way to make the fascist feel empowered and to redirect attention from their actual enemies. If I were one of the targeted people (which as a socialist I actually am) I'd be afraid that this could help them get in power. And of course I loving grasp that aggressive behaviour isn't a joke, that's why I'm loving disappointed at all the dumbasses here going "yeha kill the fascists murder the whole lot". Ambrose Burnside posted:Seems like an awfully big gamble to swear off violently resisting fascism forever based off of a sample size of: one (1), and a sample with innumerable complicating factors simultaneously at play beyond just "violence against fascists/public sympathy for fascism" to boot. In my opinion, murder is never good. Violent reaction can be fine though, such as when it manifested in massive protests and attacks on Golden Dawn offices after Physsas' murder. As a strategy, it depends entirely on whether the broader populace will see the violence as justified or not. Omi-Polari posted:And can I say that talking about what to do / what not to do in Weimar freaking Germany is really boring? We're not living in freaking Weimar. Well maybe you aren't, but that just tells me you don't quite realise what situation Greece is in. Job Truniht posted:I'm willing to speculate: Germany and the European Union in general won't tolerate a fascist government in Greece. There's already enormous international pressure for the Greek government to clean up its act. Eh, they haven't been making much of a fuss over Hungary. Germany and the EU don't seem to mind far-right governments much. Vernii posted:I subscribe to a rather pragmatic view of ethics, I think is the best way to put it. History is determined by the victor. If Nazi Germany had its way, millions of people would have simply never existed. They have families and friends. rudatron posted:Rule of law is contingent on one political ideology having hegemony over the others. When that hegemony no longer exists, a power struggle will necessarily break out. That is one example of when political violence is absolutely necessary. If you're not willing to use it then you will be strung up by fascists. That's how civil wars work. All I can read here is "yeha let's have a civil war that's gonna be so cool #BashTheFash #YOLO". Very easy to say when said civil war would happen in a far-away country. Will we be able to count on your aid when the time comes and the Goon Expeditionary Force arrives, comrade?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2013 11:36
|
|
|
rudatron posted:If you only kill fash in 'self-defense', you'll do nothing while the fascists take control. Then you'll end up on the gallows. gently caress off with the 'bloodlust' bullshit and realize that not participating in a conflict like this is just losing by default. It's starry eyed optimism without any historical perspective. You really don't sound like you know anything about the world we live in right now.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 01:44
|
|
|
rudatron posted:The great irony of what you say, is that liberalism would have been impossible without the political violence of the French Revolution. Open a history book and acknowledge that art and culture is contingent on the dominant hegemonic ideology, or stick with your 'drum circles' when jackbooted thugs are fighting in the streets and achieve nothing. So you're saying the lesson in liberalism that the French revolution gave us is that "violence in the name of our good ideology is a-ok" and you also believe that we've strayed from that virtuous path that it shined upon us in these periods of peace when we did not actively murder anti-democratic individuals in our societies?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 02:23
|
|
|
Pope Guilty posted:Liberal politicians collaborate in building societies whose conditions lead to fascist organizations while liberals scream that anybody who resists fascists is no better than a fascist themselves. Funny, except not. Define "liberal" for me, please.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 02:33
|
|
|
Mans posted:How is SIRIZA acting nowadays? People are treating them like they sold themselves to the devil because they lost the elections but someone, probably YF-23, could speak up about what seems to be the best organized resistance against the fash. Your national communist party seems like a joke so i'll refrain from speaking about them. The best weapon so far against the Golden Dawn has been to let them make fools of themselves and show what horrible people they are. It's hard to say what sort of organised resistance could be set up against them; the police cannot be counted on, and when it has to do something it'll go light on them. I do not belong to any left-wing groups and I'm far from the capital so I don't really see any protests, so I don't know how protests and so on get organised, but if anyone wants to truly defeat Golden Dawn the best way to go about it is to reveal them for the scum they are and make that dominate the narrative so much that the mainstream media cannot but follow suit. This happened after Physsas' murder, so what's important is that that narrative is maintained.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 10:58
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I dunno, I'd say that the best way to truly defeat the GD is to try to help Greece as much as possible in rebuilding its economy, assembling a functional government, and bringing back a little hope for the public. Direct antifascist action is containment, designed to keep the situation stable-ish until the underlying problems have been solved. Treating people to hate fascists is not the be-all and end-all solution, it just results in the fascists realising they've got an image problem and dressing their horrible opinions up in a different way. Until people are no longer desperate and hopeless enough that fascism and related ideologies seem like an appealing solution, the Golden Dawn will never die even if the specific organisation of that name crumbles. Yes, that is very true. I realise I was speaking about Golden Dawn specifically, and not fascism; as long as peoples' lives are poo poo they'll be drawn to anti-establishment ideologies, such as fascism in a democracy. But the only ways economic conditions can improve is if the Eurozone leadership realises the monumental idiocy that drives its financial policies towards Greece, which is something that is not ultimately up to the Greek people and institutions to decide; the best we can do is protest, through the vote and through taking to the streets (though the latter has been largely ignored so far).
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 12:24
|
|
|
Kieselguhr Kid posted:But then people will see them as victimised and they'll only become more powerful! You are right, getting people to see how horrible they are is exactly the same to pre-emptively murdering their members. Let me make a list of how these two things are the same:
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 12:46
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Returning to Greecechat, what exactly was it that went wrong there? I've seen a lot of blaming of neoliberalism, which makes sense with the EU-imposed austerity measures, but there seemed to be problems before that which those measures were a (cack-handed) attempt to address, and those I don't have much working knowledge about. So why is the country such a shambles that literal Nazis are a tempting option for the electorate? A very short answer: the EU/Eurozone structures took enough state sovereignty from the member states that solutions to problems were no longer available (such as devaluation as a response to an untenable debt), but not enough for populist nationalism to really flare up with a "LOSING OUR NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY ;_;"/NWOish kinda poo poo reaction, which did not allow for other solutions to those problems to be available (such as an ECB that can actually print money or wealth transfers from richer member states to poorer ones). There's plenty long effortposts and discussion in the Eurozone drama thread if you're want to look for something more detailed as to the problems that caused the Eurozone crisis. The Portuguese posters there are especially active.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 7, 2013 21:09
|
|
|
Grouchy Smurf posted:In regards to the poll, a company names RASS created a questionnaire on request of the newspaper Eleftheros Typos, and it was released in today's Sunday edition of the newspaper. Interesting points: Polls should not really be trusted, in my opinion, it's very hard to imagine New Democracy being ahead of SYRIZA. I'm pretty sure there's several caveats to more or less all polls publicised in Greece at the moment (I think they are all conducted through telephone using landlines and end up missing massive demographics). But yeah it's an open question whether PASOK will manage to enter parliament next election. Guildencrantz posted:PASOK has died enough to be behind Golden Dawn in the polls? Wow. I find the effect of the crisis on Greece's political divisions interesting. With PASOK's slide into irrelevance it looks like the usual European "two big parties, center-right and center-left" thing. Instead you have just one major party of vaguely centrist mainstream neoliberals, under siege from the radical right and radical left. Which seems a much more natural fit to modern-day ideology, but GD in third place is still really worrisome. New Democracy is well to the right of centre. They'd absorbed some key elements of the far-right LAOS party a couple years ago, and one of them, a charlatan named Adonis Georgiades who has even gone on record claiming that no-one died in the Athens Polytechnic uprising (whose anniversary it is today by the way) has even been made Minister of Health. Otherwise, they do see those who vote for the Golden Dawn as voters up for grabs by appealing to racist policies such as with respect to the treatment of illegal immigrants, and are counting on moderate people sticking with them by fearmongering and portraying SYRIZA as a violent left-wing version of the Golden Dawn and as the party that will return us to the drachma.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2013 12:15
|
|
|
For what it's worth, there's a lot of suspicion regarding the proclamation because of how it's written, and it's very possible it's a manufactured document.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 08:26
|
|
|
Zohar posted:Manufactured by whom? Is this strategy of tension v2? I don't know. The state/the police is a potential manufacturer, especially with that timing (right before 17/11), the idea being that they'd have an excuse to put down protests (though I didn't hear anything about that, the protests yesterday appear to have been peaceful as far as I've heard). In the end, who knows? A lot of things about the proclamation was iffy, for example some language was lifted almost verbatim from far-right/nationalist texts.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 18:06
|
|
|
Gantolandon posted:I'm not sure why would they do that, though. The most reasonable strategy in that case would be to implicate the leftists into something the society unequivocally would declare horrible. Killing of two prominent neonazis, as the cited article shows, made at least some people hopeful and expecting something more. How do you mean "prominent"? They were entirely unimportant other than being members of GD.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2013 00:12
|
|
|
Emden posted:I'm interested to know when it is okay to support anything other than capitalism, liberalism, and liberal democracy. Is there some sort of chart I can use to determine how poor I have to be to not have my opinion disregarded instantly? Your opinion will stop being disregarded once you stop using minorities as scapegoats I think.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2013 10:56
|
|
|
Well there's the thing where authoritarian regimes tend to be pretty drat lovely and brutally oppress all opposition to them which might turn people off from them. Neoliberalism ends up looking similar to that as turns into a new authoritarianism in its effort to prevent democratic/popular movements from infringing upon the freedom of the markets, but I'd argue that that is about as similar to liberalism as stalinism is to socialism. So yeah if the definition of "sane rational person" includes opposition to regimes that treat the people they govern as slaves I'd say that the two are incompatible. Of course, you have to define sanity and rationality first.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2013 11:51
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:You're agreeing with emden because you both misunderstand the whole concept. New models ARE planned obsolescence if they're used as a marketing strategy that way. It's fine to release new better models, sure, but don't act as though it's improvement just for the sake of making a better product.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 23, 2013 12:17
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:The term originally meant "This poo poo will literally fall apart after X years" not "This poo poo will be obsolete in X years because of style/fashion/upgrades." It's expanded to include that meaning, but that's a little dumb because it's not really built into the product the way real planned physical obsolescence is. That really doesn't mean anything though, at this point we're arguing semantics because we all fully understand what we're talking about but describing it by using the term "planned obsolescence" (which as you point out has come to include the thing we're talking about) is something that apparently some people don't like? I mean yeah obviously it's not planned obsolescence in the sense of a lightbulb breaking after a year but it sure still is planned obsolescence. Sorry for treading on your dictionary I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 23, 2013 16:06
|
|
|
Emden posted:The idea is that giving everyone easier lives will lead to society stagnating (culturally, economically, maybe even physically). This is not a unique idea: American libertarians and conservatives believe it, many philosophers of the past have identified it as well. Khaldun recognized excessive comfort as a sign of societal collapse, for instance.  I cannot wrap my head around the irony of you seeming to agree with that sentiment and at the same time hating minorities, who are living the dream of a hard life. I swear if we lived in the middle ages you'd be self-flagellating to repent for your sins.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2013 10:25
|
|
|
Emden posted:And if anything it has been the multiracial, multicultural empires that have fallen time and time again. Guess what other thing has fallen time and time again: homogenous empires. Guess what things fall time and time again: all empires because all empires fall eventually regardless of their social makeup you idiot.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2013 00:30
|
|
|
community ham boil posted:How seriously are Golden Dawn taken as a political force in Greece? Just glancing at wikipedia real quick, it said they've had about 6.9% of the vote. Is it a sure thing that they will never have much political support, and are just a whole lot of talk? Reading this, they sound so over the top, almost unreal. http://icantrelaxingreece.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-knife-will-go-in-at-the-ear-and-move-down-right-through/ They have a good lot of support (around 10% these days according to polls), but it's mostly out of protest than honest adherance to neo-nazism. People blame the entrenched parties for everything and see no redemption for them, so they put their support behind the most loathed political entity since that's proof they are pure and not lapdogs of the system or what have you.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
A video leaked a couple days back showing the Greek government's general secretary on very friendly terms with the Golden Dawn's top dog: Article quote:Golden Dawn spokesperson triggers political storm by releasing taped conversation with government general secretary (Full English Transcript) (UPD) Damage control since: Baltakos has been trying to make it look like he was doing this on his own, acting as a spy of sorts, without Samaras (the prime minister) knowing about it. I'm not sure anyone actually buys that piss-poor explanation.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2014 10:37
|
|
|
fafish posted:There are many people though that approve the lift of immunity of Golden Dawn leadership and the role of the Government in that. The main left critique is that the government was late in doing so and ONLY after the death of Pavlos Fissas, a white greek male, actions were taken so that many of the cases against Golden Dawn being brought to court. There is a huge critique available thanks to this leak: First, because New Democracy/the government was doing this just in order to get an electoral advantage over SYRIZA. Second, because it shows there's a connexion that runs deep between the government and Golden Dawn (Baltakos' post, general secretary of the government, is very important and appointed by the prime minister). Third, because of both of the previous points it brings into question the honesty of the persecution against the Golden Dawn; if it's only done to get an electoral advantage over SYRIZA by cutting into GD's polling, and they are on good terms with them, there's a good chance the persecution itself was just a show that avoided actually harming GD.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
DrProsek posted:Is France's EP elections results due to what Captain_Maclaine mentioned earlier about EP elections being generally unimportant to the average person so only more motivated parties vote heavily in it, or is it due to in general more FN support? Bad news either way, but somewhat less alarming if those percentages are just because this wasn't an election to decide who gets to run France. Going to go ahead and guess it's a bit of both; the centre losing support and its voter base being too disappointed at their "home parties" to vote for them but also unable to bring themselves to vote for anything else either. Someone from France should be able to give a better idea as to how the election result reflects the society though.
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2014 23:33
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Young concepts, but concepts that were vastly popular and rooted in notions of irredentism and recent conquest. Where are the Canadian peoples who have not yet been returned to Father Canada, after all? But an Italian could certainly tell you where the noble Italians were that weren't yet under the umbrella of Italy in 1924, and some even profess to do it now. Fascism does not need to manifest through territorial revanchism. I mean if you're going to go "but look fascism is a totally different thing from far-right reactionary authoritarianism" you're really just splitting hairs.
|
|
#
¿
May 26, 2014 12:20
|
|
|
Doctor Malaver posted:So you are saying that every party or person that doesn't stand for unlimited immigration is fascist? I'd say preventing anyone from seeking a better life after they've abandoned their home qualifies as at least a major dick move on humanitarian grounds.
|
|
#
¿
May 27, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
AstheWorldWorlds posted:My concern is the modern left (in the broadest sense) very much is abandoning the root economic cause in favor of more parochial identity interests and it is getting us nowhere. It is to the point where the most zealous advocates of identity politics are hostile to trying to build some universal consensus along economic lines, in a sense actively rejecting class conflict. The current trajectory is clearly not working out so well so what would you advise as an alternative course of action? If that's the problem then you solve it by focusing on class/economic issues, not by rejecting identity politics.
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2014 15:29
|
|