Board Wargames Thread - Armchair General HQ - The Something Awful Forums

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thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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OK wargamers, I have a weirdly specific question. I'm a long-time player of Battletech and Federation Commander/Star Fleet Battles, and consequently my favourite thing in the whole world is overly-complicated tactical games with individual record sheets for the units. Anybody have a tip on good naval wargames that fit this description? I'm tempted by things like Harpoon, Seekrieg, etc., where I can sit and simulate battles in ridiculous detail about real ships for once instead of off-brand Star Trek ships :v:

Era doesn't matter to me so much so long as I get that detailed simulation vibe.

While I'm at it I figure I should look for less ludicrous systems that can simulate larger battles without taking days -- that AAR posted earlier in the thread from Serpents of the Seas is kind of what I'm going for. Is that a good place to start for that kind of system? I'm also absolutely dying to try War Galley if I can actually find a copy somewhere, since I love ancient naval battles.

Iron and Oak looks like a nice mix of both in a way -- not massively complicated, but ships have individual cards to track damage, etc. Anybody try this one?

# ¿ Aug 27, 2013 11:58

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 03:21

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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Tekopo posted:

I've done some solo campaigns with Iron and Oak and the game is alright, but it's very heavily designed around the dice mechanism that is present within the entirety of the game. The basics of it is that you roll challenge dice and response dice to do pretty much anything. So a gun might have a rating of a D6, D4 and D12 and the enemy armour might be a D12 and D6. You roll each bunch of dice separately and pick the highest dice in the response/challenge and compare them against each other.

The results in Iron and Oak can be pretty random, which I guess simulates the fact that ironclad combat was pretty much decided by random shots hitting critical points at opportune times. Another thing about the game is that movement is very abstracted: instead of having hexes you just have boxes where you can attempt to cross the T if you are in the same box as an enemy. I kind of like the system since I also liked Kaiser's Pirates (a card game using similar mechanisms) but since you need to roll dice for pretty much anything, it might not be for everyone.

I don't mind rolling dice for everything, I did play Battletech after all :v:

That sounds like a good time, though I may have to see it in action before deciding. I like things that feel simulation-y most of all, so maybe I should find examples of play somewhere and see.

Lichtenstein posted:

If you don't mind playing with starships just a little bit longer, Saganami Island Tactical Simulator is pretty close to peak .

Oh man... I've always been tempted by this. How :spergin:

does it get? I need DETAILS.

Their other game Squadron Strike struck me as extra :spergin:

for having ridiculous Excel spreadsheet tools to make ships with. Is Saganami beyond even that?

Frankly I'm tempted to buy some more of Ad Astra's stuff because Ken Burnside is definitely way less of an arsehole than Steve Cole of Star Fleet Battles fame. I can't stand that loving guy and would much rather spend my money elsewhere for my space combat spergery.

Paper Mac posted:

How big is your table? Serpents of the Seas is all on one mapsheet, uses 1 hex (.5"x.5" counters) units, mostly gunboats, frigates, etc. Flying Colors (vol I) does the big ships-of-the-line 2-hex (1"x.5" counter) units, on two mapsheets. Serpents has an additional 1v1 duel system, FC has an expansion you could get if you want. FC's system is descended partially from War Galley IIRC, so that may work for you as well. As far as being a good place to start, if you've played Battletech and SFB you shouldn't have trouble with the rules, that's for sure.

That's really helpful, thanks! I don't have a huge table, so SotS is probably better for me in that case. I'm curious about the dueling system too. Does that change any of the game systems in a significant way, or how does it work?

blackmongoose posted:

AV:T is basically the only working, playable, 3D movement starship combat simulator which makes it quite the unique experience.

For the guy looking for ship games: Wooden Ships and Iron Men will remind you a lot of Battletech; it's got record sheets for each ship, hex movement, and crossing off boxes as you take damage. It also includes scenarios ranging from ship-to-ship duels to Trafalgar, meaning you can choose the length of game you want. The only problem is that I'm not sure if it's readily available anywhere since it was an old Avalon Hill game.

Yeah I need to track down a copy of that game. I keep wondering if it'll ever get resurrected in some form; I don't exactly relish buying some beaten-down old copy with unreadable ship record sheets. I love having the option of printing those off from PDFs in other games these days.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2013 04:59

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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I'm considering jumping into the OCS series, would it be foolish to grab up some cheap and unpunched older versions of OCS titles that are floating around Ebay? I'm seeing tempting auctions for stuff like Enemy at the Gates, Guderian's Blitzkrieg I and Tunisia I. How playable would they be if I just used the newest series rulebook with the old games?

If that's a terrible idea, I'm guessing Tunisia II or Smolensk or Korea would be more reasonable for a newbie compared to Blitzkrieg Legend or Beyond the Rhine? Beyond the Rhine looks really cool though.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2019 17:02

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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tomdidiot posted:

In general, you want a game where you can see the long-term efefcts of the sysetem: i.e. a full campaign. 4-5 turn mini scenarios can help teach you how to move the pieces around, but you really need a smallish campaign.

Tunisia II is probably the best introductory OCS. I prefer it to the two actual introductory OCSs (which, in any case are now both out of print) - Reluctant Enemies and Sicily II, because it very much feels like a meeting engagement as the forces slowly build up on both sides. Sicily II is horrible as your first OCS title becuase it literally dumps you into the most rules-intensive section with the amphibious landings, a niche part of the rules that you will barely use (used in Korea, and to a msall extent, in BTR and Case Blue), but it's a good second title post-tunisia.

That's great advice, thank you! Tunisia II sounds ideal -- digestible intro scenarios but also a meaty enough campaign to give me a real taste of the OCS system. Will pick this up for sure.

Gonna chop up your post here to respond to other bits:

quote:

RE is a bit of a weird beast - I'm not a fan, but other people swear by it as a first OCS game.

Moving on from Tunisia, RE, Sicily II and Korea are all good - though as noted, RE and Sicily II are both out of stock. Korea is a bit like Tunisia in that it starts small and you gradually get more and more units and rules thrown in.

Smolensk is less good becuase it throws you in the deep end with high counter density + the Soviet army at this poitn is super unwieldy with AR 1s and 2s being fairly common.

BTR may work, using Queen and/or Nordwind as learning scenarios - both are small enough and don't have that many special rules - I'd probably lean towards Nordwind becuase it's a bit more mobile and interesting while Queen is literally a big grindy slugfest. Definitely wouldn't play the campaign game though, until you've got a bit more under your belt.

Hmm, sounds like some interesting choices to be made for a second OCS outing. Korea sounds the most sensible choice, but BTR is really tempting me. I guess I should see whether I like Tunisia II first... ahh who am I kidding, I'll end up buying at least three of these drat things

quote:

Regarding other, older games that are currently OOP
GB I does not work with the current OCS rules, period.
GBII has a 2001 printing which works withe the current rules, so may be worth considering if you can find it for cheap enough. It's practically the same as GBII's 2011 iteration. It has some fairly decent small-medium scenarios but again, the cmapaign is probably not feasible.
Hube's Pocket is being re-done as Third winter, which should be ready in the next cople of years, so not worth buying
EatG is probably vaguely playable but has been completely redone as Case Blue
Case Blue also has some small-medium leranign sceanrios, but the campaign is even more unwieldy than GBII. It also commands a large premium.
Tunisia I is virtually identical to Tunisia II other than a few unit/map changes. But there's no point buying it when Tunisia II is readily avaliable/cheap
DAK and DAK2 and Burma both work well under the current ruleset, and are both excellent games and very different to all other games and well worth purchasing. DAK1/2 in particualr has some nice newbie-friendly scenarios. You will almost certainly never finish DAK - but there are plenty of intermediate starting points for DAK with 3-4 month long scenarios rather than the full thing.
Sicily I has a bit too much chrome to recommend it.
Balitc Gap has pretty ridiculous unit densities so would not recommend it to a beginner.

This is really helpful too, thanks! The one of the old ones that was tempting me most was Enemy at the Gates, mainly because some CSW and BGG chat from the designers said it's playable with the new rules with a simple tweak or two, and that it covers some Stalingrad stuff that didn't make it to Case Blue. Also Case Blue is preposterously expensive. I may still impulse-buy EatG if it crops up again at a cheap price on the strength of the theme; call me boring but I do love me some Stalingrad. And I may be bad at budgeting but I really can't justify �400 for Case Blue!

quote:

If avaliability was not an issue, I'd recommend doing OCS in this order:
1. Tunisia
2. Korea
3. Sicily II
4. Smolensk
5. Burma
6. DAK
7. The Blitzkrieg Legend/Baltic Gap
8. Some of the really big ones like Beyond the Rhine/Guderian's Bltizkrieg/Case Blue/Third Witner when it comes out.

Yeah, from the sounds of it I'll definitely start with Tunisia II, then probably Korea, then at some point I'll break down and get BTR.

Now the big follow-up question: anyone fancy teaching a newbie some OCS via Vassal sometime?

# ¿ Jul 2, 2019 22:58

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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tomdidiot posted:

Hell, if you're in the UK - I'm in Cambridge and would be up for driving for OCS games.

I am, although I'm in Glasgow so it's a long haul! PM me if you want to arrange something

thorsilver fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 3, 2019

# ¿ Jul 3, 2019 02:08

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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Chill la Chill posted:

I see that CSI still has a few copies of Beyond the Rhine still available. Is that a good place to try a big OCS game after I've done something like Smolensk or, if I find it, Tunisia II?

Check tomdidiot's response to me above, tons of good info about where to start with OCS. I was thinking the same as you and was tempted by BTR, but in the end took tomdidiot's advice and ordered Tunisia II and Korea. BTR seems best saved for much further down the line, after having had a few goes at more manageable campaigns with less maps and unit density.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2019 04:54

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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For the OCS people in the thread, Hungarian Rhapsody is up for preorder -- http://www.multimanpublishing.com/tabid/59/ProductID/370/Default.aspx

Having now received Tunisia II and Korea, with Enemy at the Gates on the way from Ebay, I got overexcited and almost bought this too before I remembered MMP doesn't do EU-friendly shipping

# ¿ Jul 15, 2019 19:59

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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tomdidiot posted:

I get most of my EU Friendly stuff through Hexasim.

Yeah, that's actually where I got Tunisia II and Korea from. Even with shipping from France it cost about �20 less than Second Chance Games, and it got to Glasgow in 48 hours.

I guess the smart move is to wait until Hexasim eventually stocks it, then buy it there at a better discount.

Tekopo posted:

Maps are indeed quite cheap to print if you don't have to mount them. All the cost is for countersheets, so I'm not surprised at the cost. Eastern Front has huge unit density.

I'd kill for more mounted maps in wargames. Recently got a pristine copy of Unconditional Surrender with mounted maps and that poo poo is glorious.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2019 17:57

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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tomdidiot posted:

Lol. Everyone else is getting squeamish about wargames while I instead buy Third Winter from Hexasim.

LOL, I just bought The Third Winter from Leisure Games too, so you're not alone! Arrives today and I can't loving wait, I love stupid-huge Eastern Front games that I could never actually set up in my tiny flat. Vassal here I come.

On another note, is anyone here into the GBACW series? I've had a lot of fun with Death Valley and have Into the Woods coming soon and the Death Valley expansion on P500, so now I'm looking at getting more games in the series. I can find good prices on Gringo!, Dead of Winter, and Red Badge of Courage -- anyone have any opinions/experience with these?

I'm also a bit curious about the Civil War Brigade/RSS/LoB series from MMP, if anyone has any hot tips on good entries I'd be curious to hear them.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2022 14:56

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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Tekopo posted:

Sorry, I have no experience with GBACW. I've bought (but never played) LoB from MMP and it seemed good. The one that I really like is GCACW (campaigns, not battles). Yes, it's confusing.

Fair enough

I've only got Roads to Gettysburg II from the GCACW series but the scenarios I've tried so far were really good, so I'm hoping to get more into GCACW as well.

On a whim I just grabbed a sealed copy of This Hallowed Ground, the Gettysburg game from the Regimental Sub-Series (also playable with the LoB rules). I heard good things about it, the price was reasonable, and somehow I don't have any Gettysburg games, so I thought I'd give it a go

As far as GBACW goes, the ruleset is pretty chunky but the play itself is very immersive. The maps and counters are also gorgeous, which IMO adds a lot in more tactical games like these. Death Valley has been a lot of fun and is a LOT of game for the money, with five maps, seven countersheets and eight full battles for a really decent price. If you like LoB it may well be worth a punt.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2022 10:46

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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Panzeh posted:

GCACW's really good, one of the best wargame series out there. I have a lot of them.

Any recommendations on where to go with the series after RTG II? The prospect of collecting the series is rather daunting, given the prices.

I only finally got RTG II at all because I happened on a punched/clipped copy for less than half the truly huge retail price. I was tempted by Atlanta is Ours but the price put me off; maybe I'm spoiled by OCS and GMT stuff, but �130 for two maps and three countersheets is a bit crazy to me.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2022 18:31

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 03:21

thorsilver: Feb 20, 2005; You have never
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Panzeh posted:

Atlanta is Ours is interesting, though its grand campaign is very, very long. I like Stonewall Jackson's Way II, which includes both of the Bull Runs. Hood Strikes North is an interesting, not often done campaign that has a very doable big campaign along with its scenarios.

Thanks for the recommendations

I'll probably go for Stonewall Jackson's Way II, that seems like a great package with a tonne of variety. I read on CSW that there are some problems with the counters and the game is being fixed, but MMP has no date yet for when this will happen, which is a bit unfortunate, but I'll keep an eye out for it coming back into stock.

tomdidiot posted:

[Mommy says it's MY Turn to invade Ukraine.

My copy of TTW arrived on Saturday, that box is absolutely crammed to the top with awesomeness. The OCS player aids and rulebooks have definitely taken a step up in quality recently too, which is great.

On the topic of giant Ostfront games, has anyone played the East Front Series from GMT? I'm feeling a last-minute urge to add a copy of Barbarossa: Army Group Center to my Pacific War preorder; the rules seem straightforward but there's lots of neat chrome, special units and weather effects, so it looks pretty fun. Trying to decide between that and Thunder in the East.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2022 12:45

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