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Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
If all you need is a feat swap, there are much better alternatives than the +20 Token they just gave out, Fred the mindflayer will swap single feats for feats, and every character gets one free LR. That +20 token is very valuable, as DM mentioned, for leveling as one class and switching to another for TR bonuses.

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Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003

mfny posted:

Anyone have any thoughts on this or should I just redownload and try this again and see if it "clicks" with the recant changes ?

You seem somewhat open to giving the game another shot, so you should probably try again. It is hard to pinpoint what you didn't like about the game previously, as "character advancement" can come in many different forms. This expansion made huge changes in two fronts, first characters are much more powerful at lower levels, and second there are dozens of new viable builds. If either of those seem like better character advancement, then give it a shot.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003

Gammon posted:

Hmm, I might have to look in to how best to multiclass as a monk then. I did have my heart set on being unarmed, but I guess that's no longer as good as it used to be, or maybe using a weapon as a monk is now just plain better.

I am doing regular, unarmed monk this life and there is nothing wrong with it. I did decide to splash in 3 levels of rogue and 1 of fighter, or maybe 1 of druid, still haven't decided. But 16 levels of monk leaves you missing only .5[w] to unarmed, versus the 5d6 sneak dice from 3 levels of rogue. There are plenty of other trade offs from not being pure monk, but I have already done a pure monk life and I wanted to mess around with a little splash.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
As a new, first life PM you don't even have to wait untill level 7 for self healing, zombie form and lesser death aura are level 3 and will do just fine in non elite stuff.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Yup, you just have to take the first level as the class they are ment for, then you can leave the iconic trainer and level up normally. The bladesworn makes for a great first life sorc.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Even thought it isn't a traditional melee weapon, http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stave_of_the_Seer is pretty drat good for leveling a dex based QS build. The 1.5[2d6] is really good, and with shileagh and all the +[w] attacks in the new enhancement system, it hits like a truck for its level. Plus takes care of true seeing, and has two red slots.

+tactics now also affects quivering palm and the new, aptly named, unbalancing strike.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I haven't tested recently, but in the early stages sweeping strikes did not enable sneak attacks, which sucked. Unbalancing strikes from any of the monk tree's does enable sneak attack, and is also incredibly broken on some mobs.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Caisha posted the answer to the monk stance question a few posts up.

I really like 4 war as a splash now, 4 levels of kensai plus 3 feats, weapon spec etc. It is a strong splash for almost any non caster. I am also not sure I would ever want to do a melee without shadowfade after starting to use that, especially with the new invis changes.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Does anyone have a supply of Vale ingredients built up that they wouldn't mind parting with, I am looking to make some clickies and they are the last components I need. In total, 4 husks, 5 petals, 5 pebbels, 1 funk, and 4 twigs.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I don't think either of them make all that great clerics. There is a great bard build somewhere hidden in the PDK, but I haven't put all that much thought into it until turbine lets us TR into iconic races. The bladeforge seems to be great at just about anything, as long as you don't use his preset build. SLA reconstruct is about as good as it gets.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
For artificer you really wan't to be warforged, For starting stats, you have some wiggle room, but I really prefer 10str 16 dex con int, 6 wis cha as a 28 point build, as a 32 you can go 17 int and 11 str. For skills, max Disable device, search, UMD, repair, and then you can distribute extra points across open locks, spot, concentration, balance, and the 1 point in tumble you need. Feat selection - point blank shot at 1, rapid shot at 3, One of Quicken or Maximize at 4, the other at 6. Alternatively you can take Precice shot and precision at 4 and 6, if you are not interested in the SLA's from the enchantment line, You will want quicken by 8 though, to eventually quicken your repairs.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
No, I just forgot about spellcraft. I haven't played anything that uses it since they added it so it wasn't on my mind.

Most MMO companies don't have multi-day down times every 6 months like clockwork. The last time this happened, probably the exact same problem, Turbine pointed the finger at outside vendors, just like this time. At some point in time they should look into more reliable suppliers.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
So apparently there is some thing with TRing and ED's and a specific quest zone that has been around for like a year. I don't know much more but I have been in a few groups with people who clearly did. Does anyone know more about this? Sure would be handy for my next life.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Soooo yeah.. Cacoon at level 1, pretty loving hilarious. It is to bad that Cordovan finally acknowledged this bug yesterday, after over a year of its existence. Feather said they fixed the cannith bug too, but he was referring to master crafting not working so I am wondering if he didn't even know about the ml1 thing, and if there is any chance that will survive the imminent patch.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Boulders and primal scream are also really really good at low levels. I also fully agree that they should remove the ML, or massivly lower them, from BTC items once they are bound. A huge appeal of DDO, D&D in general, is hoarding power.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Hey DM were you looking for shield or tome pieces, and do you still need them? I got a few ransacking Vol tonight.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
When soloing you will never ever come close to that 4 days for a TR. My build right now is incredible, I am abusing the poo poo out of multiple bugs, and it is still going to take me 80ish hours of play time to hit 20 this life. Having someone to window farm those good quests makes a big difference, so does splitting up. I had noticed that optionals were tied to completions now, but hadn't thought to just repeat without finishing. I wonder if I can get in and out of crucible in under a minute.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
While the OP is nice and uptodate the most important piece of advice is to plan out your build. Unless you are doing the simplest build possible, i.e. a pure 20 in one class, you will want to know as much about what levels/feats/stats to take and when to take them before you start taking any. Then ideally run your plan by some people with experience and get feedback.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
It is probably not worth buying 32 point characters right off the bat, play for at least a month or so and see if you get back into the game, you will likely end up having no problems unlocking 32 points from favor if you do end up sticking around. The three best investments are by far VIP for a month, and if not that then either monk or artificer classes.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I am not a big fan of dex based twf monk, you loose out on any reliable stunning which is too important, and is really hard to pull off with a fresh first life character. I am not sure how attached you are to twf, but most new players find better luck with 2hf instead, so I through together a pretty solid str based monk QS build, QS's are amazing right now and the build is pretty simple/straight forward, there is plenty of room for variation in the build too, if something doesn't suit you.

quote:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Monk \ 6 Rogue \ 2 Cleric)
Hit Points: 230
Spell Points: 155
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)

Strength 17 22
Dexterity 11 11
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 10 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)

Balance 4 25
Bluff 4 22
Concentration 2 12
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device 4 5
Haggle 0 0
Heal 2 23
Hide 0 0
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 6 9
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 0 0
Open Lock 4 4
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 4 4
Spellcraft 0 0
Spot 4 4
Swim n/a n/a
Tumble 1 1
Use Magic Device 4 23
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Human Bonus) Stunning Blow
Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Level 6 (Monk)
Feat:(Selected) Great Cleave
Level 7 (Cleric)
Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 10 (Monk)
Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder
Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
[Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Level 13 (Monk)
Level 14 (Monk)
Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Level 17 (Monk)
Level 18 (Monk)
Level 19 (Rogue)
Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Consider maybe one less level of fighter for one more of rogue, the extra sneak dice is probably worth more than the +1 to hit and damage and the extra feat from fighter, but either way Rogue repeater is much stronger than say pure arti at higher levels, the sneak damage more than makes up for the loss of rune arm damage.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Iconics have to go from 15-28, and use an iconic TR, heroic TR is not an option if you choose to start you life as an iconic.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
No, you don't start at level 1 as an iconic ever, if you pick one of the iconic races after TRing, you start at 15 and must go to 28 before you TR again.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Also consider 12 fighter 6 wiz or sorc, 2 paly, fighter gives improved weapon spec and titanic strength,a much bigger bonus to str than bladesworn with a much better up time. Depending on what weapon choice you go, rogue levels might be a decent option too, as nothing beats QS for weapons at the moment. You can definitely TR your dwarf into an iconic, and as woden mentioned, without twisting in endless turning you need 4 paly for divine might, I think its worth the twist. Maximize will most certainly not work with eldrich strikes, I don't even need to test it to know that isn't going to happen, and extend will be pretty key for displacement and haste so you aren't stuck recasting those every 30 seconds. You also appear to be missing stunning blow as a feat, why have all that strength if you aren't gona stun things with it.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
She pulled a Haggis :(.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
She just doesn't get to come to fight club anymore.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I think Woden read the +1 per ten levels as 1 per stack, so 9 per 10 if you had all 9 past lives, It is hard to tell if that is the case or not, and it should follow the same pattern as the HP past lives, either +4 per 10 levels or +36 at 9 lives, I am guessing neither of the + per 10 stack per life, making the HP only 49.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
You can't buy lr+1 from anywhere other than the ddo store on live, is that changing for u20?

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
This is a fantastic change, I really appreciate sagas, but the idea that if I wanted to IR/ER I absolutely had to grind x sagas, and that if I had a tome reward in the list that I wanted then I would have to sacrifice the CoV's was really disheartening.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I think my wiz/mnk QS build would need about 60 more ap to spend on racial, mnk and rogue trees before I would start spending them in eldrich knight, there are just so many good enhancements for the build already.

As for your first QS build gammon, I can't stress enough how valuable 2 rogue levels would be instead of 2 fighter levels. You really don't need those extra two feats and the 15% stacking haste and the better double strike attack are phenomenal.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003

Perpetual Notion posted:

I was rather disappointed with my healing ability on necbromancer myself, but then I didn't really have a bunch of endgame gear to boost it either.

This was my biggest concern with your build and why I ended up going 11/6/3 as a warforge and ignoring PM, all the good buffs from wiz, reconstructs, and shadow fade from monk instead of wraith form. With u20, if I can purchase bladeforge after having not pre-order the last expanion, I will probably be ditching the wiz build for paladin since the buffs are all scrollable, but I do prefer the 3ish minute duration on casted haste/displace to the 30s scroll duration.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I would consider 2 rogue 1 monk instead for that build, drop thf line and invest two feats into master of forms for one more x1 on 19-20, and with two rogue you can go for poison strikes in assassin.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I meant poison weapon, the 1d8 on each hit, not the gimpy strikes. But yeah, I think if I did a melee cleric I would have to go heavy in one cleric tree not two. Even if you stuck heavy into cleric enhancements, at least with 2rogue/1monk you have a few more build options to experiment with, but I may be biased as I can't take the ithf line after using it a few builds ago and it felt completely wasted.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
I did it for displacement, haste, and tensers. Perma displacement, plus 28% dodge, plus 25% incorp made for pretty solid defense, and since I was warforged reconstruct is a pretty solid healing option.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
To drop LR for quicken take power attack at 1 instead of thf, and take thf as a monk bonus feet, then take cleave at 2 instead of pa, and cleric 1 at 3 for quicken.

Also consider 6/7/7 as a level split since the fighter defensive stance stacks with GM of earth.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
After I hit 28 on my current Life I am thinking of tring to this build for a while to grind out epic past lives. I am going to miss self casting displacement but I think I have everything else covered, except for enhancements where I think I could have another 150 points and still not get everything I want.

"Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03" posted:


DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Bladeforged Male
(8 Paladin / 6 Monk / 6 Rogue)
Hit Points: 304
Spell Points: 114

BAB: 16/16/21/26/26
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 20
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 10 14
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 12 16
Wisdom 6 10
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 30
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 3 17
Diplomacy 2 6
Disable Device n/a 12
Haggle 2 4
Heal -2 0
Hide 0 2
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 3 13
Listen -2 0
Move Silently 0 2
Open Lock n/a 12
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 27
Search 1 19
Spellcraft 1 3
Spot -2 0
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a 9
Use Magic Device 4 27

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow

Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 4 (Paladin)

Level 5 (Paladin)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave

Level 7 (Paladin)

Level 8 (Paladin)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 10 (Rogue)

Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge

Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 13 (Monk)

Level 14 (Monk)

Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
Feat: (Moonk Bonus) Mobility

Level 16 (Rogue)

Level 17 (Rogue)

Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms

Level 19 (Rogue)

Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Mechanist (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Power Attack (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Weapon Attachment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Power of the Forge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Vault (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Ki Bolt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Sounding Staff (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Elegant Crane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Nothing on that screenshot says that, the 4 more points is moving from 28-32 if you have 32 unlocked.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Yeah, no way you are getting 4200 coms by just doing 20-28, even if you received coms for 100% of your quest completions. Most people will end up with around 1500, far fewer if they are not optimal in their quest. It would take a max of 10 hours to grind out a regular old TR heart, where as the new hearts take 40-60, or say maybe 30 extra hours after doing 20-28. Overall I don't see this rate as healthy for DDO.

Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
Two problems with that number though, the first is that getting an average of 25 com's per quest run means loading up on the higher level quests instead of the lower level ones which doesn't match up with actual data for two reasons, the first is that people tend to run quests that are lower level than they are, not higher and those rewards are much lower than 25, 15 for many of the more popular EH's. The other reason is a factor of time, you spend more time in range of lower level quests you are more likely to have run more lower level quests that higher level ones, only running stuff like storm horn line 2-4 times, vs 6-8 for stuff like the original motu trio.

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Fenris13
Jun 6, 2003
This is the third time in the past 12 months that there data center has had pretty serious issues, although I guess when you are using the most bargain basement hosting you can get that will happen.

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