|
Poil posted:SC2 really lacks decent models for anything, WC3 must have like four times the amount. I think the key is mostly that Warcraft 3's models are more ubiquitous. Archers, cavalry, guys with swords and axes? Those can be turned into all sorts of different units in different medieval/ancient time periods, and adapted into all sorts of fantasy universes. It's a lot harder to do that with stalkers and colossi and broodlords and many of the other sc2 units. I guess you could make a WW2 map with sc unit models, turn vikings into bombers or something.
|
#
¿
Mar 5, 2014 18:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 5, 2024 23:20 |
|
|
As an aficionado of the warcraft 3 campaigns, I was rather surprised to discover a few days ago that mission 3-5 of the orc prologue campaign actually do have voiceacting, but that blizzard stripped it from the demo version when they imported it to the custom campaign menu in frozen throne. Naturally, a mod exists to restore the voiceacting, which I downloaded from here. I listened to the start of the 3rd mission and found it awesome to hear new content after all these years. Definitely going to play through this.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
I always used WarKeys, Anytime I periodically reinstalled warcraft 3 I use Warkeys to remap all the hotkeys to grid. It can make a customkeys.txt for you. I loved all the singleplayer campaigns but the thing about the TFT Night elf/ Human campaigns was how massively OP Naga are. I could go on and on about this so I'll only name a few examples. Suffice to say, Naga are perfectly designed to counter Night Elves in almost every respect. 1. Naga Royal guards do absurd chaos damage with incredible spells. Oh and their water elementals have bash. Crushing wave spam wipes out the night elf ground army very fast. lol poor archers. 2. Couatl are the most overpowered air unit ever. Their damage is flat out absurd, they have good armor, and blizzard even threw in abolish magic for no real reason. Oh and they only cost 2 food, less than the 3 for dryads and all other good air units. Oh and Couatl do extra damage to dryads. 3. Naga sirens can cast frost armor forever lololol crippling the dps of your bears, the only melee unit (besides MGs) with a chance against Naga. As an added troll, frost armor is cheaper to cast than Dryad’s dispel magic *and* Sirens have twice as much mana as Dryads. Also only cost 2 food. 4. Naga Myrmidons are a spectacular T1 ground unit, also they have ensnare which can’t be dispelled by Dryads. The icing on the cake is all these combine to make dryads are the most abysmal unit ever against Naga. The *only* naga spell they can even debuff is frost armor, and they do even that at a deficit. Also all naga units are very high dps so Archers get slaughtered as well. In fact archers are the intended counter to Couatl (at least, the armor types/damage types line up that way) but lose fairly decisively in a stand-up fight, Couatl OP. Oh and one final insult. Apparently blizzard just *forgot* to make Dryad’s dispel magic work against the Siren’s parasite ability. It does nothing. All this made finally getting to *play* as the Naga at the end of the night elf campaign / human campaigns all the more satisfying. Theres even one human mission (yes, only one) where you can Mass Couatl and oh my god is it laughably overpowered. You can literally a-move the entire map on hard difficulty without a care in the world. The first couple times I did that outland mission I massed towers to close the dimensional gates, then I realized Couatl just kill everything instantly. If Naga had been balanced as a multiplayer race, I might find it amusing to read its (very, very long) list of racial nerfs.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
It also occurred to me, I wonder if I could somehow play as Naga against Moon in a 1v1 if I could beat him. Are Naga in their map editor state OP enough for that? With Royal Guards, maybe, but probably his incredible micro would win out.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
Undead tft missions are the best. At least, if you appreciate the difficulty. Just playing them on hard casually doesn't work though, you need fairly high apm on some otherwise you get clobbered.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2014 15:30
|
|
|
sforzacio posted:I loved the War3 editor, and while the SC2 is amazing in how much control it allows you, it is just such a pain in the rear end to use. Allowing so much freedom comes at the cost of user friendliness, so either less people are capable of making their maps, or don't even want to bother. Yes, 100% correct. I can only dream that blizzard will Fire chris metzen, make Warcraft 4 and make an improved world editor. Warcraft 3 with better graphics and balance could be so tremendously epic. Hell, somebody might even make a popular warcraft 4 DoTA. But the SC2 galaxy editor is/was certainly too hard to use, at least back when I tried in 2010. Worldedit did a perfect job of prioritizing user friendliness while retaining advanced features.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2014 12:57
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:The way that Battle.net sets out custom maps and stuff makes it pretty bad, too. And I'm not even sure if custom campaigns are possible. Funny you should mention that. Just today I found a project that transforms the singleplayer campaigns into 2 player coop (well, some of them at least.) Looking forward to trying it out, but the modder also added Insane difficulty. And here I thought I'd seen everything there was to see in the singleplayer. The mod can be found here
|
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2014 03:19
|
|
|
Saw someone mention the remakes of the Warcraft III campaigns with current unit balance patch data. Here they are: http://tiny.cc/jym1sx And the forum where Pie_Patel talks about them is here. It took a significant amount of googling to find them, I actually have some of the older ones and none of the obvious search terms led me to them. Afaik this link is the only place to download them at present. Someone might want to do him a favor and repost the campaigns on other sites. Make sure to get the newer pack that includes both scourge campaigns. EDIT: Warning: The difficulty variable doesn't properly import between levels. So whenever you start a new mission, it will be 'normal' instead of 'hard'. Circumvented by returning to the campaign screen after each mission. Eregos fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 28, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2015 20:45
|
|
|
Having not read about how the Warcraft III ladder worked in a long time I found this really really interesting and well written. Apparently SA's BBcode doesn't feature options to show/hide text anymore and using subscript actually increases the size, by using larger line spacing. This was posted originally in 2009 or 2014.Pie_Patel posted:Depending on one’s opinion, Warcraft III was either an exceptional foray into role-playing strategy, a mini game on Defense of the Ancients, or a game that was horrible because your Starcraft build orders didn’t work in it. Most forget its undeniable legacy: An anonymous matchmaking system that became the standard for competitive online play. Eregos fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 28, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:I'd say that the Long March is dumber than any undead mission. Whenever I play the Orc campaign I make sure to save all 6 healing wards for that mission. Without them it's impossible to clear the extra coves in first 2/3rds of the mission on hard (unless you backtrack from the health fountains). Even with perfect micro, your units will simply run out of hp and die. And since I insist on fully clearing every map, that would be unacceptable. The hard AI on that mission is ruthless about picking off wounded units so yeah it's unforgiving.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2016 10:20
|
|
|
The Long March has nothing on King Arthas though. The first time I beat that on hard I had to load sooo many times. I got so sick of hearing Sylvanas say 'Another human has made it through the pass!' I would immediately say out loud 'Another human being has made it through the pass!' I've never demanded the slaughter of innocent refugees with as much glee. Back then my micro was much worse which that mission punishes heavily. It was the only mission I'd occasionally lose patience with and activate WhosYourDaddy. Especially when that BS happened where the trigger for refugees would bug out and the game would *claim* refugees escaped even though every entrance is covered with shades and consecutive layers of defense. I think there's a bug in that map having to do with no path existing to the exits (achieved with blocking units on hold position), wherein the game falsely claims refugees have escaped. I might test that on the map editor later, just load it up and literally block the entrances with trees or rocks.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2016 10:37
|
|
|
On Twilight of the Gods hard I've found mass hyppogryphs combined with ancient protectors to be the only solid non-exploitative strat. With a couple bears for healing/roar. All the other night elf units are basically irrelevant, regardless of micro skill. I aim to hold Jaina's base until ~32 minutes left but most of the mission should be at Thrall's base, which you need to hold until under 10 minutes. My best non-exploit performance was to hold Thrall's base until the very end, albeit with only his fortress left, flaming and on fire, Thrall dead, all ancient protectors dead, all hyppogryphs dead, and Furion and Tyrande deep in the red. Naturally, the mission is dramatically easier with the invulnerability potion/town hall scroll/goblin landmine exploit. With that you can easily save Thrall and Jaina's bases. Even if you play legit, the mission really intends for you to use goblin landmines against the crazier land waves in the middle of the mission. As for King Arthas, I've discovered the mission is dramatically more palatable if you play the start perfectly. At the very start, take arthas, kel thuzad, and a couple abominations to the middle of the map. Save just before they get there, and use their goblin landmines on the 3 altars and enemy units. Kel'Thuzad can also use Frost armor+ Death and Decay. You lose your abominations but ideally you destroy the 3 altars, and Arthas and Kel'Thuzad survive and return to their respective corners. This way you only have to deal with each Paladin once, instead of them slowing down the entire mission. Afterwards the safest move is to be defensive as hell and just possess militia captains until Sylvanas has a full control group, allowing her to clear her side with relative ease and come over to help the others. It's still a long mission though and takes about 45 minutes.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 19, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
Any time I feel morally conflicted about slaughtering all the human refugees in UndeadX01, I just tell myself they're Syrian refugees, then the moral conflict is resolved.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 5, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
PSA for Windows users: The April 2017 1.28 warcraft 3 patch has, for some reason, moved the saved games from the game folder to "C:\users\(user here)\Saved Games\Warcraft III". Which is odd considering the point of this consolidation was to have everything in the "documents\warcraft III" folder. (there's also a vanishingly small chance it could be in "%userprofile%\appdata\local\virtualstore\program files (x86)\Warcraft III" but I think that's been fixed)
|
|
#
¿
Jul 24, 2017 06:31
|
|
|
Introducing the Warcraft Grand Campaign Eregos's suggestions for playing all Warcraft singleplayer missions sequentially (As for acquiring the older games, I don’t have any advice.) Warcraft I There are two basic approaches. The first is to actually play Warcraft 1 via emulation like Dosbox, which is pretty simple to get running but you’ll probably want to have the wiki handy as a reference for commands like ‘cycles=10000’, what I seem to remember running WC1 at and should probably go into the config file. But be warned – Warcraft 1 is only for the hardest core amongst us, as it features even less automation than SC1 and terrible AI. You can select only 4 units at once, and control groups don’t exist. As mice in 1994 often had only one button, rightclicking doesn’t exist and even the move command must always be hotkeyed. Bandboxing requires the control key. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the original experience and challenge. The second approach is to play Lord Perenoldell’s complete Remakes of the Warcraft I Human and Orc campaigns. These go in your custom campaign Warcraft III Frozen Throne folder. Note the 2017 WC3 patch may moves the custom campaign folder to My Documents on Windows Since I’m hardcore I beat them all on ‘Hard’ and completed the bonus objectives (aside from 12th missions which don’t really count), but this is quite tough and in the case of Human 12 damned near impossible. For more normal players I’d recommend sticking to ‘normal’ difficulty and doing your best with the bonuses. Cheating is also an option if strictly necessary. My biggest complaint is the lack of ability to implement the road system WC1 used, but beyond that, it’s a very good remake. The high difficulty and at times frustrating mechanics are also authentic to the original. I’d recommend youtubing the original cinematics at appropriate junctures though. Given the choice, I’d pick the Lord Perenoldell remake for another playthrough because actually playing the Warcraft 3 client and having basic automation brings down the incessant repetition to such a more manageable level. Whichever version you choose, you’ll soon discover ranged units are extremely good, and catapults are super units. Warcraft II By far the best option here is to simply play the fully patched Warcraft II: Battle.net edition, patch 2.02 released May 2001. Can verify it runs perfectly on Windows 10 without emulation or special compatibility settings. I recommend using something like a gaming keyboard, autohotkey or other software to rebind some keybindings, just having a few commands like build peon, bloodlust and heal bound differently (Wc2 doesn’t have bindable hotkeys normally) really turbocharged my most recent playthrough. Even the longer, harder Beyond the Dark Portal missions were smoother and more manageable, never had to slow the gamepeed more than 2 notches. Warcraft II really is a blast and actually faster paced that Warcraft III. IMHO The generally correct gamespeed is 1 notch below maximum. 2 Notches down is too slow. Automation and interface are simpler than Warcraft III, but vastly more bearable than Warcraft I. Warcraft III I recommend binding to Grid hotkeys (unless you’ve learned everything by heart already) using a program like Warkeys(newest one’s apparently missing easy ability to assign grid hotkeys, wtf. Maybe download someone else’s customkeys.txt), and downloading the 2017 patch on B.net which enables proper aspect ratio (but not widescreen unfortunately). Hard difficulty is the only difficulty. Don’t play the original prologue in Reign of Chaos – it’s deprecated. Instead play this in Frozen Throne’s Custom Campaign, whose folder the patch moves to MyDocuments. Proper Order for the Campaigns for the best flow. Wc1 Human (Can be Wc1 or Perenoldell’s remake): Help Azeroth push the invaders back whence they came! (Non-Canon campaign) Wc1 Orc (Can be Wc1 or Perenoldell’s remake.): Decimate the Weak, Decadent Kingdom of Azeroth for the glory of the Horde! Doing this second lets you set up a nicer continuity for succeeding games. Wc2 Orc (B.net edition): Continue your conquests as Orc Chieftain. (Non-Canon) Wc2 Human (B.net edition): Stop the vile orc onslaught! Wc2 Beyond the Dark Portal Human (B.net edition): Pursue the Orcs to their homeworld! Wc2 Beyond the Dark Portal Orc (B.net edition): Aid Ner’Zhul in his dire mission. Wc3 Reign of Chaos Orc Prologue (Download the original 5 mission version with restored voiceacting and launch via frozen throne’s custom campaign menu): Experience Thrall’s journey. Wc3 Reign of Chaos Human: Guide Arthas toward True Greatness. Wc3 Reign of Chaos Undead -> Orc -> Night Elf -> Frozen Throne Night Elf Wc3 Frozen Throne Orc Bonus (Can go anywhere but arguably best after 2nd NE campaign): Assist the Horde’s Rebuilding and Defense. Wc3 Frozen Throne Human -> Undead. For anyone curious, there are a total of 141 missions in the Warcraft Grand Campaign. Additionally, the Frozen Throne Orc Campaign is the final campaign chronologically, taking place a couple years after the Undead Campaign. While it’s not necessary for the Warcraft Grand Campaign in any way, I’ve enjoyed editing many of the Warcraft III singleplayer maps, which you can do by extracting them from the MPQ file with Ladik’s MPQ editor, then re-importing the edited versions, allowing you to seamlessly play your customized versions using the normal campaign screen. (an aside – if you want to edit ROC campaign maps, you want the 2011 version of Ladik’s MPQ editor, not the 2015 version as this version is missing a critical importation menu screen that prevents the ROC client from reading the imported map). I’ve made a bunch of changes to singleplayer maps, usually to add more difficulty, sometimes to do silly stuff like giving myself Grom Hellscream(Possessed) & Fel Orcs, a few Archimondes and multiplying the number of enemies on the map exponentially. Slaughtering huge numbers of enemies with Fel Orc Grunts is just silly fun. Especially when they have Bloodlust and Unholy Frenzy. Sure, you can accomplish the same thing with whosyourdaddy, but it’s not as satisfying. Smoothing the path to Illidan’s last base in FT UD 10 led to the most titanic battles in all of singleplayer even without giving him extra units. Kept those maps as a duplicate MPQ I rename to use. One permanent change I made was in the Orc Bonus campaign giving Rokhan Unholy Frenzy, Rexxar Bloodlust, Chen Unholy Aura and Cairne Mass Teleport as innate abilities as a way to speed up the campaigns in a way I thought was fun without being as silly as whosyourdaddy (you can’t lose anyways, and I don’t play Bonus Campaign often). Anyways, what somebody might find interesting is my change to ROC Undead 8. By default, when Kel’Thuzad’s summoning timer reaches zero Archimonde arrives and the mission ends. In my version, the alternate victory condition of eliminating all the Wizard structures is the only victory condition. When the timer reaches zero, Archimonde spawns in at level 10 as a commandable unit ready to kick some serious Wizard rear end. I found this to be much more satisfying than the mission abruptly ending, as I can dispense white hot justice onto the Wizards that just hounded me for 30 minutes. From Archimonde’s standpoint, he’s merely warming up his powers and clearing the outskirts of Dalaran, in preparation for his real strike at Dalaran and the Legion’s invasion. One last thing: Always annoyed me using Grid Hotkeys that Garithos’s shockwave was screwed up. If you add: [ANsh] Tip=(|cffffcc00C|r) Shockwave - [|cffffcc00Level 1|r],(|cffffcc00C|r) Shockwave - [|cffffcc00Level 2|r],(|cffffcc00C|r) Shockwave - [|cffffcc00Level 3|r] Researchtip=(|cffffcc00Q|r) Learn Shockwave - [|cffffcc00Level %d|r] Hotkey=C Researchhotkey=Q Buttonpos=1,2 Researchbuttonpos=0,0 To your customkeys.txt, then only Garithos’s shockwave will be bound to C, which on grid hotkey’s would be Devotion Aura which doesn’t need a hotkey.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 12, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
Some of the standalone Warcraft 2 Remakes in Warcraft 3 might be fun, but my search did not yield any complete remakes of Warcraft II in Warcraft III, there are individual maps but I wasn't really looking for those. Attempts to recreate the Warcraft II campaign were either abandoned or slowly progressing. So to replay the whole Warcraft II campaign the best option by far is the Warcraft II Battle.net edition. I might make a small package of my maps available if there is sufficient demand, I've done a few iterations between 2011 and now, would you be interested in the completely silly versions or more the serious improvements? My modified 2011 maps are pretty much all Fel Orcs and Archimondes for maximum absurdity, with a shitton more enemy units, sometimes I didn't remove the gold cost of extra units so you have to cheat for gold to afford them. Part of the issue with sharing the maps is the added complexity of adding custom campaign maps to your MPQ, it requires using ladik's editor which isn't very hard but it is an extra step. Playing the maps standalone is possible but you lose connectivity with the rest of the campaign - your heroes start with no items, and you cannot select difficulty (seems to be normal by default).You also want to make a copy of your original MPQ and rename it. While using a custom MPQ, you will be unable to load any saved games from maps that were modified by the custom MPQ. Blizzards 2017 update did seem to overwrite my modified MPQ, so I had to re-import the modified maps I wanted but that's probably a one-time inconvenience. Eregos fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Oct 16, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Oct 16, 2017 19:16
|
|
|
Interesting at least to me, judging from the map files Lord Perenoldell is actually an Italian. IIRC that's the first time I've played any kind of game made solely by an Italian. I might try that War2 remake. I'm trying to remember if I saw that in my search and mentally dismissed it because it wasn't well reviewed or if I never saw it at all. Eregos fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Oct 26, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Oct 26, 2017 03:54
|
|
|
The thread hasn't focused enough on what a massive change the addition of True Widescreen is and DOUBLING the maximum playercount from 12 to 24. I just got done doing a 1v23 Insane AIs FFA and holy poo poo it was literally a 7th grade boyhood fantasy come true. The new colors are dope as gently caress (I chose Maroon humans) and it was just a blast, towered Snow colored night elves like a bitch, had to harvest in low upkeep to survive attacks from green undead, turquoise orcs, black orcs, Brown night elves, purple humans. Chose the 'madness on the barrens' custom 24p map so actually the gold supply was kinda tight, had to build a buncha morts and arcane towers to scout the remaining mines. And the final battle was against Violet undead and Mint night elves. In the end, sped around with Mass Teleport, legion of doomhorn, jango of endurance, a big army and a bunch of tanks to clean up the buildings. Final Gametime: 2:07:05, Units killed: 581, Buildings razed: 287, Heroes killed: 40. But it felt like about 45 minutes. I realize its not hard or impressive but it was stupidly fun. Also I've found the game can handle 24 insane AIs just as long as the map is open and the AI can path the way it wants to. If you go hide in a corner with all the AIs against you, like FunnyWarcraft3 did in a 1v23 AIs game (exponentially harder than what I did ofc) then the pathing fucks and the FPS drops to 0. It's a game engine limitation. Still haven't assessed lagginess in a game with an insane number of units like WW3, hopefully some of those engine limits were improved upon. btw, the official new color names, courtesy of the 1.29.0b patch notes: Player 13 - Maroon (AWESOME, people will call it Dark Red.) Player 14 - Navy (AWESOME, remember it looks like Dark Blue. Maybe should be called that?) Player 15 - Turquoise (AWESOME, but confusable with Teal! Just remember its brighter) Player 16 - Violet (AWESOME, just remember its like pink but way brighter!) Player 17 - Wheat (AWESOME, surprisingly. Maybe they should call it sand? People might call it tan) Player 18 - Peach (AWESOME, could also be called Salmon.) Player 19 - Mint (AWESOME, people will call it Light Green.) Player 20 - Lavender (Fine, though I had no idea what color this was until I looked it up!) Player 21 - Coal (Fine, but why can't they call it black? I guess because True black is creeps) Player 22 - Snow (Fine, but why can't they call it white? I guess because your base/units are white on the minimap. Also I think some of the buildings textures are misaligned on this one, undead ziggurats look white but the Necropolis looks like light blue. Think they were going for Lordaeron's light blue color from WC2) Player 23 - Emerald (This color is OK, but its too confusable with green and dark green. There are 4 greens now!) - maybe replace with Dark Yellow, Gold, Light Red, or Superdark Reddish-brown. Ultradark black-blue is another option. Player 24 - Peanut (AWESOME, not sure if people will call it Dark Orange or Light Brown, I'd guess the latter. People might even call it tan or dark tan.) Just having these new colors is INCREDIBLE I feel like I've entered a baskin robbins for the first time and can choose from a bunch of colorful zesty new flavors. Or like I bought a bag of Tropical skittles for the first time after only having original. Every custom I play from now on I'm choosing from the new colors. Fortunately the original 12 colors were left alone. I can recognize all 24 now but it helps I had 16 years to learn the original 12, from countless FFAs, 6v6s, Europa's, LOTRs, 12p TDs, footman frenzies, Risks, WW3s and more. If I were new it would be WAY harder. BTW if anyone has issues with the patch: You can repair your install using the War3 launcher in its directory. Remember to backup your customkeys first. Seems like they finally got rid of the last remnant of the CD nag. Only issue I have now is re-setting the resolution every time I run the game but thats minor. Eregos fucked around with this message at 19:01 on May 19, 2018 |
|
#
¿
May 19, 2018 08:22
|
|
|
I beat Insane AIs in a 1v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v2v1, took 3:30. Did it on a hard map too (Island Expedition), no islands to run to, had to be pretty clever. Beating teams of two was a fun challenge, not incredible but a definite step up from FFA. I set the AIs to be all 10 combinations of 2 races, Hu-Hu, Hu-Orc, etc. Final opponent was Hu-Orc, naturally. They rocked my armies a few times 3 hours in, even with a perfect 100 food army it was difficult to beat both of them together in a straight-up fight. One of the teams got screwed up somehow and was actually a team of 4, I didn't realize and it almost cost me the game an hour in. I checked the alliances before I started, probably I missed it but there could also be an occasional bug with the alliance logic like there is with the spawn position logic in 24p games. Fortunately I didn't spawn next to that team and they got unlucky, sacked heavily not long in and turned into a team of 2.5. As expected the game DID NOT lag because the map layout was open and the AIs could path. I also played as the white humans because I play as the white humans IRL. I'll probably at least attempt 1v3v3v3v3v3v3v3v2 at some point but unless the map is really favorable or I hide in some unpathable area it will test me to my limits. I recommend returning veterans to try at least one 1v23 Insane AI FFA, Few RTS games allow for so many players so it’s a neat thing to experience. Pretty straightforward to survive in an FFA, though if you don’t build some static defense you risk losing to bad luck – you can easily have 5, 6, 7, 9 Insane AIs attack your base in the span of a few minutes, even a pro would have difficulty surviving that without static defense in the midgame. Remember the Insane AIs get double gold income, so they can rebuild several times after getting wiped out even on onebase, though they spend their cheated gold gradually if deprived of income. Critically the AI's can see the entire map, it's been tested, so 'always visible' is a good game setting, also makes cleanup at the end much faster. In terms of 24p maps (PVP or vs AI) I recommend Madness in the Barrens, Island Expedition, Ace of Spades. Market Squares also works with the AI but the layout is kinda boring. Certain versions of Divide & Conquer XL are good but the best one I got from a lobby host and they're hard to tell apart. On the custom’s front I was disappointed, none of the bothosted games I've seen thus far took advantage of playerslots 13+. I guess mapmakers are still working on that. I see potential in hero-oriented games using them but the problem is the playerbase has declined too much. It would’ve been awesome if we’d gotten this back in 2011. I bet I’ll get in on some massive games at some point though, wtiicraft has some good youtube vids of 24p games. Also replays play up to 32X speed now. Eregos fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jun 20, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2018 12:55
|
|
|
People tested this scientifically, and it 100% lines up with my experience. There's no doubt whatsoever the AI can see the entire map. As I understand it they tested maps with lots of choices and consistently saw the AI choose paths that led to enemy/player bases without scouting. The AI makes a choice about what it wants to do, usually it will be creeping/expanding/attacking somebody else but if it wants to attack you, it goes straight to your base without scouting. On huge maps the distinction if obvious - in one scenario the AI creeps short to mid distances around its base, the attack scenario will see it go all the way to the completely unscouted opposite side of the map. One little secret is the AI always pings, even when playing on a team by itself (you can see this if you look at a replay from the AI's perspective). Goes without saying you always end up with 3 level 10 heroes by the end of a giant compstomp. I was reading about AMAI last week but was disappointed it can't integrate into the game anymore, at least that part hasn't been updated. It has to be enabled for a specific map, which I still plan to try. I'll start with a 23 Insane AMAI game as a stress test, if that works everything lesser should too. Eregos fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 29, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
Not reforged but something to tide me over in the meantime. The coolest & most impressive playlist I've ever seen for Warcraft III Singleplayer. This guy Aesis Gaming managed to destroy every single enemy base in Reign of Chaos and Frozen Throne on Hard, including all of the ones meant to be absolutely positively impossible to destroy. In addition to a bunch of other challenges. He uses a ton of exploits and clever stuff, a lot of it the community came up with. It's amazing to see all of that stuff and know it was all possible way back in 2003. The *only* one he seemingly couldn't is destroy Garithos's base in 'The Crossing'. Others have already done destroying the Undead base and killing Archimonde on 'Twilight of the Gods'. Insane masochism, perhaps, but I've been having a blast copying his tricks to destroy the enemy bases in Hard singleplayer. Some I had done once or twice before, like destroying the Undead in 'The Culling' and the Murloc bases in 'Countdown to Extinction' (remember to download the voice acting restored version). Others, like 'March of the Scourge' were brand new and it felt pretty badass to finally wipe the map. I combined all the base destruction ones into one playthrough, adds some complexity but it's gone smoothly so far. Obviously not recommended for the faint of heart. Only things that need to be planned in advance are hero items and abilities. Have to be damned careful about strategy, the challenge missions are usually like 2-3X more complex than normal, can be easy to miss details at times. edit: he's not the first to do all those, March of the Scourge was done years ago, but his videos are generally more efficient and elegant than older ones. Wish they were done in widescreen though. Eregos fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Sep 20, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2019 23:34
|
|
|
Since unit pathing will actually be fixed, I'm thinking I'll start out trying some team games builds like knight/priest or tauren/caster that benefit a lot from functional pathing. Maybe even some footman, archer or ghoul rushes. But I'm sure some unexpected stuff will be OP and I'll switch to it fairly quick.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2019 01:45
|
|
|
Back in the sc2 beta in 2010 one of the first things I attempted to do was to make the simplest possible 16 player map, mostly for myself and a few friends to mess around against the AI, as at the time that was the technical max player limit. It was just a few ridges and piles of rich mineral and gas fields that never exhausted, basically big game hunters. But I quickly discovered a complication - the 16th player slot was also used to own the minerals and gas, meaning all minerals and gas would be hostile and unharvestable to other players. Since I couldn't add a 17th disused slot for neutral stuff, the most sensible solution seemed to be to alter the targeting properties for the mineral harvesting and geyser building commands so they could target hostile owned resources, remove vision from resources so player 16 gained no advantage, and then everyone gets used to resources being red highlighted instead of yellow. But in the summer of 2010 in the beta galaxy editor this was loving impossible to figure out how to do and the mapping community couldn't help me. After about 8 hours that concluded in fruitless exploration of obscure properties that were indecipherable I gave up and just made it be 15 players instead. A few years later Blizzard reduced the official playercount to 15, saying 16 players 'was not intended to be supported'. I'll say. There's some good sc2 custom campaigns, I played a couple, Subjection and Mass Recall (played the latter several times) both were fun. The most comprehensive list is probably Jayborino's.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 18, 2019 10:24
|
|
|
A few thoughts on reforged unit appearances and portraits. First, team colors are clearly not visible enough on some units. Second, some clearly aren't quality enough yet. But overall, I'd be curious the post-release opinions of people completely new to both reforged and warcraft 3, because I remember how damned confusing and hard to see the unit appearances and portraits were back in 2003. I remember a bunch of creeps I felt like didn't match their portraits at all. What made everything easily identifiable more than anything was familiarity and the passage of time. So I feel like getting a totally objective comparison whether or not or how much this has been made worse requires the perspective of completely fresh people, because us veterans can't see the game the same way we did way back when.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2019 01:41
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Direct comparisons: Are there multiple variants of the Paladin? Because this HD variant is actually tolerable, unlike the cop one. I agree most of the HD icons are worse than the originals or sidegrades at best. Almost none are better. Wonder if it'll be possible to play with HD graphics on but the original icons. What they should do is let people review each icon individually to get a better perspective on which ones to redo.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 1, 2019 18:57
|
|
|
With Starcraft II's release in 2010, Blizzard decided that matching AT vs RT was ok, so long as they compensated for it by making AT teams have a big adjusted MMR (match making rating) advantage relative to an RT team made up of players of the same individual MMR. This meant that an identical mid diamond AT team would be expected to maul an identical mid diamond RT team, but the RT team would gain more points and MMR if they won. Of course this system was ruthlessly exploitable and I did so for years. Eventually it was fixed so that going 5-0 in placements would almost never place your AT directly into master league, but you can still exploit the poo poo out of it by doing repeated placements with good players to rack up wins for XP and portraits. An especially infamous player named PROTOTYPE had a number of 'Bronze league' friends he'd partner up with to do 3v3 team games, who were in fact master/diamond in skill. I ran into him a few times, usually losing because unless I was in an AT, his exploitation meant whoever my non-party ally was sucked. Oh that's another thing, you can still search 4v4 with a party of 3 in Sc2 and it counts toward your individual RT rank, not AT. It's very beneficial and became a standard thing to do at master league level. There's probably little to no ranking system in the beta, so the game has little data to work with knowing how much advantage to assign AT vs RT.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2020 01:21
|
|
|
Flayer posted:I wish I could get my old icons back! I unlocked the Rifleman several times, the Sorceress, Huntress and Headhunters once. I tried really hard to keep logging in once a month 2005-2006 to keep all my unlocks, but eventually messed up like everyone. I still swear one of my account wipes happened after only like 2.5 months instead of 3 like they said  The thing about AT vs RT is, even if they make a really big MMR disadvantage for the AT team, it's still at worst a double edged sword for good players. It can cut against them if their teamwork is subpar, but cut for them if they're well practiced and organized together. Teamwork and planning ability is a huge X factor the system can't prepare for. It gives the best players another tool to potentially get even further ahead. But I think it's probably for the better overall, as it cut match search times down in SC2. Back in 2014, Heart of the Swarm 2v2 AT vs RT was so common that most players in my 2v2 RT Diamond division were underwater with significantly more losses than wins. I was too, like 15-17, 19-20, the very game I equalized 25-25 was what promoted me to Master. Until that moment I'd thought I was underperforming, but the promotion proved it was just the AT vs RT dynamic. Since the system sounds similar, I bet that sorta thing could happen again in Reforged.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2020 02:05
|
|
|
Perhaps the worst pathing error I've seen outside Sc1 was enemy infantry outright running through solid stone walls in Black & White 2. That poo poo was infuriating, and the patches never totally fixed it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2020 00:52
|
|
|
I'm glad I got a working Warcraft 3 1.31 from that one website that provides it for bot hosting purposes. So I have a backup of the true widescreen warcraft 3 I can play offline with no drama. What a trainwreck of a launch, though. This disaster marks the final end of trusting Blizzard enough to preorder, for anyone who still did. I was a huge fan of their games for years, but the company is definitively going down the shitter now. It's a lot easier to boycott over Blitzchung when all their new content sucks anyways. e: Insane they released the game in this state. They keep repeating the same mistakes. At least SC2 had a functioning ladder on 2010 release. I knew they needed more time & was grateful for a delay but, wtf, why release now? Just wait another 10 weeks and make the humiliation less severe. Eregos fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Feb 2, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Feb 2, 2020 10:18
|
|
|
Now that 1.30.1 is essentially the best official version of the original client, I actually have to use it because I was in the middle of a custom campaign I now can't continue thanks to custom campaigns being broken. If only Blizzard had just stopped at adding widescreen support and some monetization.... I assume it would be against forum rules to post a link to a 1.30.1 full game download? If ever an exception should be made to that, I'd think the official game being broken should qualify. Anyways, it's not hard to find. As far as I know you can't simply install the old way and patch to 1.30.1, because they replaced the update system which now connects to Blizzard's servers and installs the latest broken version, the only way it works is with an actual full copy of 1.30.1.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2020 12:59
|
|
|
It's been posted already but is so apropos I feel it should be reposted every 4 pages. Reforged in a nutshell.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2020 17:53
|
|
|
Dreadlord to sleep their hero, drop an infernal and carrion swarm their workers and units they'd send to wake up their hero.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 10:27
|
|
|
I'm making my way through the singleplayer, making a list of criticisms and weird observations. It's much better to think of the game as the botched remake it is and be pleasantly surprised at the occasional thing done well against the odds than expect it to be polished and be constantly disappointed. I find adding to the list oddly satisfying. Part 1: The waterfalls! They are really bad. Why sloppily replace 'Grom' with 'Hellscream?'? wtf... If they thought the original was too confusing, that's dumb. The one where Thrall confronts Grom in mission 8 is the worst. Voice lines sometimes too loud, original sound balance was always good. Peon is really ugly Peon says 'work work' with a lower tone of voice now for no reason. Unit sounds / music randomly stop working Missing unit sounds like catapult Weird voice filters on singleplayer dialogue The structure placement sound is super brief and sounds cheap and overcompressed. Northrend tileset less bad than I expected, perhaps because it's naturally darker and so the lack of any shadows is less jarringly bad. Lordaeron fall tileset is mediocre. Barrens tileset actually looks fairly good. Partly this might be the desert being bright, and lack of shadows less noticeable. It's more or less the original in HD like it should be. Even Water looks somewhat better despite having the same lovely geometry, I think it's more color and softness. 3 biggest graphical to-do's: 1. Doing shadows 2. Fixing grass 3. Redoing water Would go a long way to making the game not look like a cheap Chinese knockoff from 2008. Water looks like a second rate Doom 2 mod from 2001. Game looks like what annoyed freshman graphical design majors ask, 'Shadows are hard, How bad would it be to just make a high res game with no shadows?' Answer: Very much blander and badder. Eregos fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Mar 30, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2020 12:42
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:In original War 3, Malfurion had two models. One on foot for RoC, then in TFT he got a stag. Not true, he appears off his stag in a few reforged cutscenes. Another weird thing is, they forgot to increase Malfurion's movement speed to 'fast' in some missions like NE 4 and NE 7, so it actually alternates throughout the campaign. Sometimes it's 'average', in which case I'd put the boots on him so he matched Tyrande's fast, other times it was fast so one got to be 'very fast'.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2020 16:34
|
|
|
Running commentary of weird reforged things, part 2: According to https://www.archyde.com/after-the-release-we-ourselves-were-disappointed-wc3-reforged-contractors-held-an-ama-session-warcraft-iii/ Lemonsky studios did 70% of the models, interface, icons, animations and landscape, so I direct criticism their way. General: I like to build about 6 shops near mission end so I can quickly dump excess gold into 5X potion/scroll stacks. Even the 'good' textures in reforged always look a bit off. Not made to be viewed far away. Tomes in crates were removed in several missions. Sea Witch from the prologue campaign uses the Naga Sea Witch model now, is no longer a banshee. Her Murlocs also use Naga towers, naga connections confirmed! In the Orc 6 victory cutscene, Jaina just walks away instead of going into the cave! Hilariously, Cairne and Thrall don't react to Jaina calmly walking nearby. Tauren footsteps are much quieter now, not a thundering horde anymore. Before was maybe too much, now is perhaps too subtle. Tree of life portrait is ugly. NE 7 the sound keeps breaking all the time, have to load game. Naisha's portrait lacks any speaking animations and is surprisingly distracting. She also has an ugly portrait. It was a relief when she died. Maiev's model looks good but her portrait is so-so. At the least the Tomb of Sargeras entrance actually looks like an entrance now. But that was a gimme. They changed NEx 04 so you can't use the exploit Aesis Gaming did to destroy the South Naga base. The annoying bug where HP bars vanish in the FT NE campaign is still present, requires occasional loading. In the interlude where Malfurion communes with the spirits, after he leaves the trees don't make sounds as though discussing amongst themselves Furion's promise (like the Ents in LoTR). NEx 7, Prince Kael'thas's voice is altered, more high pitched annoying than the original. NEx 8 Illidan's base starts out with 5 murgul slaves on gold instead of 4. The exploit where Furion can pass items like Shadow Orb to Illidan for use in the Human campaign is fortunately unfixed. Tileset review section: Not all the tileset trees look bad. Lordaeron summer and fall do. Ashenvale tileset is very stylistically different, multicolored. I get this might be WoW inspired, but I'm less enamored, would prefer the original style in HD. Caverns section (NE 6) looks good, I like the new tileset. The 2002 caverns had aged poorly. Felwood looks bad overall, but the trees are ok. Tomb of Sargeras better overall after facelift, but has the most embarrassingly bad water of all. Blight would look livelier if it had the roaving green streamers from classic. Like Barrens tilset, Outland tileset looks decent. I think Lemonsky is better at doing rugged looking landscapes.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2020 02:51
|
|
|
BlazetheInferno posted:What cutscenes? Please point these out, because it would mean they have recently added a non-stag model for him. At release, there was *literally no model for him without the stag*. I looked for it and couldn't find it easily, Thrall has an on foot model used in The Last Guardian cutscene, I might have confused it with that. Though if you look at https://www.wowhead.com/news=296403/night-elf-models-from-warcraft-iii-reforged-tyrande-malfurion-faerie-dragon There's a picture of Reforged Furion there on foot.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2020 03:39
|
|
|
Kith posted:He does not. Thanks for answering that, I wasn't feeling like opening up the casc viewer, downloading the maps and looking through. I must have mentally conflated Thrall off his Wolf in 'The Last Guardian' cutscene for Malfurion off his Stag.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2020 00:36
|
|
|
There were 3 huge bugs in classic I was hoping Reforged would fix. 1. In huge battles in custom maps with tons of units, a rendering problem would lead to unit textures/meshes jumping around crazily between unrelated units, resembling javelins crossing the entire screen. Any unit/building texture visible on screen would get pulled into the writhing mess. Reforged should have removed this rendering limitation. Status: Unknown, haven't checked it yet. 2. The biggest thing limiting large AI games / compstomps - when there are too many AI units at once, or some of them are blocked, usually in 12-24p games, WC3 slows down to 1-2 fps. In classic the difference was jarring, the game would instantly jump from solid 144fps to 1-2. Status: Confirmed not fixed. Very disappointing as it makes any kind of large AI game nonviable. It could've been fixed without altering the rest of the pathing logic outside this very specific situation. 3. In giant custom maps like WW3, too many units moving on the map at once would make units randomly stop moving, or stand still and refuse to respond. There's a clear game limitation on how many units can be pathing at once. Fortunately, this didn't reduce the game FPS, but it made giant games less workable. Status: Confirmed not fixed, by Kith. Curious if anyone knows if #1 was fixed. Eregos fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 7, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2020 13:50
|
|
|
crossposting myself from Blizzard forums: Eregos posted:Blizzard really fücked up everything in reforged. Updates WIPE OUT your saved games. I would disconnect my internet every time before I started the blizzard launcher to be ensure there wouldnt be an update and I could finish my current saved games. I forgot to do this ONCE near the end of Act 2: Old Hatreds, there was an update and sure enough PROGRESS LOST, can’t load save. So I had to use ALLYOURBASEAREBELONGTOUS to skip the entire level, WHOSYOURDADDY in Act 3, no fücking way am I redoing 3 hours of that. And still no custom campaigns, or ability to edit the official singleplayer. At least the previous parts of the Orc bonus campaign functioned without new bugs, though that's a super low bar. edit: They did finally add singleplayer custom maps, where you can use cheats and saved unlimited. Hooray(?) one vanilla feature from 2002 that already existed and was just inaccessible is accessible again. Eregos fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Apr 29, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 5, 2024 23:20 |
|
|
OMG!! It gets even more rich. So I cheated to the end of part 1 of Act 3: A Blaze of Glory, but then ALL attempts at loading part 2, Theramore City, results in the instant defeat screen. Hilariously still not fixed. Even spamming autorepeat macros to get the mission to start in the .001 seconds between when it says 'press any key to start' and 'defeat!' doesn't work. And since the Orc Bonus campaign has multiple stages per level, you can't use the main campaign screen to select the mission! So I literally can never play the last mission (not that I would legit, my save having been torched by Blizzard). Back to youtube it is, then. It's poetic that Deforged ends in a edit: One last hilariousness - The fact you can't finish the Orc bonus campaign also means you can't get the portraits for finishing the it and all the Frozen Throne campaigns. Unless there's some syntax I haven't figured out for the Motherland cheat that lets you load the Orc Bonus missions? You'd have to load Theramore City directly. Eregos fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Apr 29, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2020 23:56
|
|