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SirSamVimes posted:Some of the changes are so nonsensical. What is the point in moving Uther's "What!?" to being after Arthas orders the city purged instead of having it be a response to the people turning into undead? I do agree with you on this one. Uther completely ignores the bit about the citizens becoming undead. The only other change I've seen that I can remember disliking was the whole Grom/Hellscream audio splicing thing, but I'm willing to bet there's some legal bullshit behind it that's rendered them not allowed to call him "Grom". Doesn't excuse the bad job they did with the splice. It's one of those areas where not being able to re-record the audio really hurt. But little details like the captains getting named, those Syndicate bandits in the first level, that nod to Loken in the Frostmourne level, the two bosses from the WoW Culling instance showing up as minibosses in Stratholme, basically all the changes to the Fall of Silvermoon, giving Antonidas something resembling a boss fight to show that hey, this guy is the leader of the city of Wizards for a reason. I like stuff like this.
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Jan 31, 2020 07:18
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I have to be honest, even with as bad as a lot of this is... I just don't believe they would go to the trouble of splicing the audio like that if they didn't have to. Especially if they ended up doing that poor a job of it. Switching the order two audio files play in is one thing. But actually going to the trouble of splicing the word "Hellscream" over every single instance of the name "Grom" being spoken throughout the game? I just don't believe it. Something forced them to do it, and I don't mean their plot guys going "HE'S GROMMASH NOW, CALLING HIM GROM IS A SIN, CHANGE IT"
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Jan 31, 2020 07:28
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DeadlyHalibut posted:loving lol. In the undead campaign first level you're supposed to kill off the townsfolk before they alert guards, but of course one of the civilians is a child and they are now invulnerable. It only alerts one knight and one footsman so you can kill them and continue, but still thats just stupid. Worth noting: You can also simply leave the area. The alerted guards don't chase you automatically - they merely run to where your units were sighted by the civilians, linger for a little bit, then go back to their post. If you're gone by the time they arrive, you never even have to fight them.
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Jan 31, 2020 12:44
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Tubgoat posted:Holy poo poo I think my install of Frozen Throne got forcibly updated to Reforged, Windows 10 style. I mean... a patch is a patch. They put out a patch. Your game installed the patch. The patch just happened to be "to the reforged client".
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Feb 1, 2020 01:00
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CyberPingu posted:Since I don't care about online and I never played the OG wc3. Is the campaign at least working? Or is Reddit just overreacting The campaign works. Some people have been having bugs with random defeat screens upon loading into a level, but that doesn't seem to be all *that* common as far as I can tell - persistence and maybe restarting the game should overcome it if it happens to you. There are a few moments of kinda janky animation in Reforged, but all in all the campaign works just fine, and while there aren't as many sweeping changes as was promised in 2018, what they have done is nice. For the most part. I'm still annoyed by their efforts to remove the name "Grom", mostly because they did it poorly. They also removed any instances of anyone speaking the name "Furion" in the Reign of Chaos Night Elf campaign, but that effort is far less noticeable, and far less frequent, as he tends to be referred to exclusively as "Shan'do Stormrage" by anyone not named Tyrande or Illidan.
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Feb 2, 2020 08:40
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CyberPingu posted:That's fine then. Definitely a case of gently caress you got mine but I can see why people would be pissed about the online changes. I will fully admit that this is basically my stance. "gently caress you, I got what I wanted out of this." I admit and understand that this has gone poorly, but I really don't care because I'm enjoying it for the reasons I purchased it. Mostly. I still want my Custom Campaign access back, but someone did say they were working on it, so for now I am content to wait and see what happens. Stability issues will be resolved with time.
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Feb 2, 2020 08:48
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Boz0r posted:Is Reforged worth it if I just want to play the campaign? And if not, are there any good graphics mods for the original? All in all, I'd say for *just* the campaign, Reforged is overpriced. There are various bugs, many of which are apparently being addressed in a patch later this week, and some jank in some of the cutscenes introduced by the new graphics and animation-work, which I don't honestly expect to be addressed quickly, if at all. However, I'm one of those people who genuinely enjoys the new graphics, and despite the campaign not exactly being massively overhauled, I enjoyed playing through it again with the new graphics, and enjoyed what changes there were. The Human campaign in particular in loaded with a number of small touches and details, mostly aesthetic, but occasionally gameplay-effecting, if only mildly, with a couple of levels along the way with greatly reworked terrain - I'll admit, it didn't occur to me that the Blood Elf Jail escape and their tower defense secret mission would be among the levels with reworked terrain. It doesn't affect the flow of the level, and the different "areas" and set-pieces of the level remain intact. What I wanted out of this was to see *what* ended up getting done to the campaign (being aware that changes would not be as extensive as initially planned), and to enjoy the new graphics. With that in mind, I am satisfied with Reforged. I will be more satisfied once they bring back Custom Campaign access, but if I *really* want to open up one of those, I don't mind grabbing one of those available installers to install an old version that works with them. In general, whether it's worth it or not depends on how lenient you are in your evaluation of "worth it", and how much you care about the major upset points about it.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:06
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HonorableTB posted:Is it the portal? It's been forever since I've played OG campaign, but that portal looks fine to me in a still screenshot at least It's more the fact that it literally did not get changed by Reforged at all. It is 100% the same visual asset as pre-Reforged. I was surprised, too.
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Feb 4, 2020 21:19
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Aces High posted:So based off of videos I've been seeing on YouTube, I guess Blizzard isn't too diligent about the EULA with custom games because as long as you don't label the game as "pimp my peon" then they don't know you're breaking the EULA. I mean, it's the same EULA Starcraft 2 has, and my understanding is that Blizzard basically ignores copyright stuff there, too. It's why some people were laughing at the people panicking about the EULA.
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Feb 9, 2020 08:02
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 Here, this is what they did to change Vashj.
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Feb 25, 2020 17:28
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Disargeria posted:Why's it a big deal that she has ears? Isn't she an elf? 1) Exactly, she's an *elf*, why does she have human ears? 2) Naga have never been shown with ears.
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Feb 25, 2020 18:19
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I interpret it as a simple case of "if they can't see them, why bother?" If you need to actively *try* to look to see if the ears are still there, then good enough, I figure. It's not like the original Warcraft 3 never took shortcuts - the Ooze enemies actually used the same texture files as the Acolyte.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:10
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Eregos posted:Not true, he appears off his stag in a few reforged cutscenes. What cutscenes? Please point these out, because it would mean they have recently added a non-stag model for him. At release, there was *literally no model for him without the stag*.
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Mar 31, 2020 21:52
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Kith posted:Blizzard has this weird thing where they want the playable faction to always be some form of blue or purple. I think the only reason the Orc campaigns featured red so heavily is because they couldn't get around it because that was literally the Horde's livery. I too, miss the days of specific factions being represented by specific colors. Stromgarde: Red "Azeroth"/Stormwind: Blue Kul Tiras: Teal/Green Dalaran: Purple Alterac: Orange Gilneas: Black Lordaeron: White (There was no "Yellow" kingdom; Tides of Darkness had yellow orcs and humans labelled as "Horde/Alliance Traitors") Blackrock Clan & Warsong Clan: Red Stormreaver Clan & Flowerpicker Clan*: Blue Bleeding Hollow Clan & Bonechewer Clan: Teal/Green Twilight's Hammer Clan & Thunderlord Clan: Purple Burning Blade Clan & Bleeding Hollow Clan**: Orange Black Tooth Grin Clan & Shadowmoon Clan: Black Dragonmaw Clan & Shattered Hand Clan: White Laughing Skull Clan: Yellow * - The Flowerpicker Clan was hidden in the game files. The BtDP Clans were only used on the post-mission results screen during the actual BtDP Campaign missions, and there is never an instance of a Blue Orc player in those campaigns, so it is not possible to actually see this clan name in-game. ** - The Bleeding Hollow Clan is the only clan in Warcraft 2 to be represented by two different colors, since they are the only clan from Tides of Darkness to retain a presence in Beyond the Dark Portal.
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Apr 5, 2020 19:38
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Kith posted:Dentarg owned Counterpoint: Zul'jin, who was identical to a regular Axethrower but with 1 more Sight. Gul'dan was weaker than Death Knights in *several* respects. Cho'gall, while starting with spells and having 10 more health, had no armor. Uther and Lothar were straight-up identical to regular Knights. It wasn't until Beyond the Dark Portal that hero units started getting badass.
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Apr 9, 2020 20:43
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Eregos posted:words I will note, they may not have completely fixed passing Malfurion's items to Illidan, but it looks like an attempt was made; at the very least, it's a whole bunch more difficult and fiddly than it used to be.
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Apr 12, 2020 19:02
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I think they finally re-enabled offline singleplayer, at least. So there's that. Or rather, single-player without having to do it as a multiplayer lobby.
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May 4, 2020 20:16
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Speaking as a long-time self-admitted huge Blizzard Fanboy that actively goes out of his way to avoid looking at the downsides of things I'm interested in: It's really upsetting to see Blizzard talking about stuff like Custom Campaigns as if they're exciting new features they're still working on, rather than stuff they're trying to return to us after they took them away. I hate how much it reeks of executive meddling and mandates screwing over one of Blizzard's most treasured classic games, to the point of feeling actively malicious by said executives. I feel really bad for the people actually working on it. They probably hate what's been done to the game as much as we do, but have to pretend they're so proud of it because PR and Executives.
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May 20, 2020 00:20
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captain innocuous posted:So it was a smart move on my part to buy the game several years ago, without any reforged nonsense? I forget which is the last version of WC3 that did not auto-update on launch. No more multiplayer for you without updating to Reforged, though. But depending on what the most recent update you have is, it may well force the Reforged update on launch.
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May 22, 2020 20:03
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Nostalgamus posted:How did they end up using the wrong talking portrait? They used the right one at the start of the map... Not only is it the wrong talking portrait, it's the wrong *voice*, too. I think it's more complicated than a simple "whoops, put the wrong model/portrait in".
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May 24, 2020 00:56
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There's no Reforged Model for regular Catapults, and they didn't re-record any dialogue. If they had, I guarantee they would have had Thrall call them Demolishers instead.
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May 30, 2020 05:53
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The Orc unit has always been called Wind Rider, at least since the release of The Frozen Throne. It was called Wyvern before Frozen Throne. It was the release of Frozen Throne that changed a bunch of units' names, and some units' models. Gyrocopters became Flying Machines (and got weakened/cheapened *severely*... I miss the stronger but more expensive flying machines), Steam Tanks became Siege Engines, Catapults became Demolishers, Wyverns became Wind Riders, Ballistae became Glaive Throwers, etc.
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Jun 1, 2020 02:19
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Noticeable changes to the campaigns do drop off after the undead campaign, with the exception of a few levels in the Blood Elf Campaign. But what changes are there are nice. Including naming the captains that appear in the human campaign.
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Jun 22, 2020 20:26
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Grape posted:Tassadar being all "No Zeratul! Speak respect of this noble creature!" was just the worst thing. Remember, LotV Epilogue revealed that was never actually Tassadar.
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Aug 15, 2020 22:29
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I'm one of those people who, if I like a story, I get immersed in it, and all thoughts of "is this good writing? Does this make sense?" go flying out the window unless something astoundingly stupid happens that even the story's logic just cannot explain, and those moments are *exceedingly* rare; Reforged's Grom->Hellscream badly-spliced audio fuckery is the only thing I can think of off-hand in either series that's actually done this to me, and that wasn't about the plot/writing. I've been playing Warcraft since Warcraft 2. The concept of good writing or bad writing cease to exist for me. There is only the plot. And if retcons happen, they happen. Sometimes it can be explained as a misunderstanding of events. A lot of what people call "Retcons" aren't even retcons, they are in fact merely adding new information, sometimes filling in holes that people weren't aware were there. I enjoyed Starcraft 1's story, I enjoyed Starcraft 2's story. I enjoyed Warcraft 2's story, I enjoyed Warcraft 3's story, I continue to enjoy World of Warcraft's story to this day. Do I ever claim that these stories are all perfect with wonderful writing the whole way through? God no. I can't say that about *any* franchise I've enjoyed. And I don't need to in order to enjoy them.
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Aug 18, 2020 07:20
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General Battuta posted:I love hearing about old versions of this game and why things changed. Stuff like Shade barricades and casters ruining vanilla WC3. Yup. I remember the Shade Barricade in particular was used to cheese the last undead mission by just completely blocking off one of the enemy players' approach. And casters gained attack damage when you upgraded their spells, so Master level shamans, as an example, did respectable pierce damage (because magic damage wasn't a thing yet), *and* could spam bloodlust, making pure shaman spam an effective strategy.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:25
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FoolyCharged posted:Frozen throne added a small smattering of mercenary ones, but the base game only had transports. Pre-Frozen Throne WC3 had absolutely no functional Naval Units. There were campaign boats that were purely cosmetic or "blow up this thing" targets. It was the expansion that added any naval units; the naga and other swimming units, and the introduction of boats; each race has a transport boat, a frigate, and a battleship that were all statistically identical.
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Dec 7, 2020 22:31
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On the note of RoC allowing you to creep past level 5, Frozen Throne not being able to do so actually interferes with a couple of maps in the RoC campaigns in Reforged; I think the second-last Orc level, and the third-to-last Night Elf level both feature primarily Creeps as the enemies you face along the way for at least one of the heroes' paths in each map, resulting in Reforged not allowing the heroes that would have levelled up in those maps to do so. Because they're past level 5, and are only facing creeps, and thus gaining no experience where they would have in Reign of Chaos before the creep experience cap.
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Dec 9, 2020 17:01
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THE BAR posted:Aren't combat rogues like pirates now or something? Basically. Roll The Bones is a rather pirate-y dice-gamble thing, but it was more obvious in Legion when we had a talent for a straight-up cannonball barrage ability.
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Dec 11, 2020 23:59
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Aces High posted:I see, I don't care too much for online play, I'm more concerned about the campaigns and if the Reforged client has borked the classic versions It is important to note that, while you can play the original versions of the campaigns by playing under Non-Reforged graphics, I do not personally know what the Reforged Client may have done to said original campaigns. However, the Reforged Client still has no custom campaign support. So, if you've enjoyed any custom campaigns like Arkain, Rise of the Blood Elves & Curse of the Forsaken, Shadows of Hatred, or others, those are not playable under the Reforged Client.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:20
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The Shame Boy posted:Did Reforged hosed up Malfurions name? I was watching the GDQ run of WC3 and he was just Furion? In the Original Night Elf Campaign, he was simply labelled as "Furion", rather than Malfurion. I honestly can't remember if Reforged changed that or not, though? It is worth noting though, that much like the Orc campaign editted out any instances of the name "Grom" being spoken, instances where the name "Furion" is spoken aloud were also removed, though this is much harder to notice, and is less frequent. It wasn't until The Frozen Throne's campaign that he was labelled as Malfurion.
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Jan 12, 2021 22:24
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Honestly, the only change I didn't actually enjoy was them snipping any instance of "Grom" or "Furion" out of the dialogue in the Reign of Chaos campaigns, and some of the instances are spliced really badly. If you have reforged, I'd say it's definitely worth going through the campaigns in it at least once, but absolutely  yourself an older version so you can play custom campaigns and poo poo. I wouldn't recommend buying it if you don't already have it.Even some of the less popular changed-levels I honestly still enjoyed because of the novelty of experiencing the changed levels, since I am a massive lore nerd.
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Jan 22, 2021 21:23
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The one consolation we have is that, while online is trashed forever, you *can* still an older version of the game to still be able to access stuff like Custom Campaigns, for which there is *STILL* no support in Reforged.
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Jan 24, 2021 21:05
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PaybackJack posted:He goes over the promises and expectations of Reforged and discusses where the game is now. He talks a lot about wc3champions but also says he had some contact with Blizzard in terms of game direction and hasn't heard from them in a long time. Game is probably dead internally or the one dude they have trying to fix stuff hasn't gotten a patch out yet. The team was literally dismantled, those that didn't move to different teams were laid off.
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Feb 7, 2021 21:32
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Klaus88 posted:I booted up battlenet recently to play some WC3 custom content. Think of it like playing Starcraft after Remastered came out, except if Remastered tore out a lot of extra features and made the menus horrible and basically made everything worse. You're all playing on the same version of the game. You just haven't paid for the shiny new graphics, is all. But yes, if you wanna play online, you have to use the Reforged Client. Fortunately, you can older versions of the client for offline play, like custom campaigns (well, the ones that aren't being made for Reforged in the vain hope that someday they'll add that feature back in).
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Feb 14, 2021 01:54
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I'm pretty sure they've abandoned Reforged. MAYBE another team takes it over at some point, but I wouldn't expect Blizzard to put a lot of effort into salvaging it at this point. Regardless, the D2 Resurrected isn't gonna be a repeat of Reforged, I feel. For one thing, it's a Remaster, not an Overhaul. Think Starcraft Remastered, not Warcraft 3 Reforged.
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Feb 20, 2021 15:41
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Honestly, it's a gross oversimplification, but my general takeaway from the whole disaster is that Blizzard wanted to do something cool with Warcraft 3, Activision didn't let them. Blizzard still tried, and the result was a horrible abomination. I enjoyed the new graphics, and appreciated what changes WERE there, but holy poo poo.
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Aug 19, 2021 20:12
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Spending time on the campaign balance at this point is wild Apparently it's a whole bunch of changes made to the RoC campaigns in Reforged mode, specifically, and a lot of the work was done before they disbanded the Classic Games Team at the end of 2020. Still, the changes are at least interestingly extensive, with a lot of emphasis on difficulty settings; a lot of RoC campaign maps just kinda... didn't have a Hard difficulty. Hard mode overall is getting a lot more ball-busting in the RoC campaigns, and there are generally a couple more interesting changes being made... including Kel'thuzad in Scourge of Lordaeron getting turned into a more proper boss fight, with KT's necromancer form getting turned into a Hero.
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Jun 16, 2022 20:23
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Also, the campaign got a bunch of changes; though don't get excited, the changes were made two years ago by people no longer at Blizzard, but it's nice to see them finally implemented. In short, the Reign of Chaos campaigns (in Reforged mode, of course) actually have a Hard Mode now, and it's pretty drat ball-busting. And when I say "actually have a hard mode", I mean the guy dumped a changelog on Hive Workshop a few months ago (and I can confirm it's accurate, more or less), and *several* missions literally include the words "Hard mode did not exist" under their list of changes. Lots of the Hard Mode changes include either more enemies and less units for yourself in No-Build Missions, or smaller gold mines, bigger/faster attack waves and enemies starting with 1/1 upgrades on regular missions. Lots of enemy heroes that didn't already were made to level-scale with difficulty; the Hearthglen Holdout, notorious for being a bit of a spike, was arguably made easier. Yeah, some of the attack waves got a bit bigger, but most of the Meat Wagons were removed from attack waves, and the Liches now scale with difficulty, and neither one is level 10 even on Hard Mode. You can even go through the middle of the map to reach the Plague Caravan's starting point without going through Green's base, accomplished by simply moving the entrance of his base back out of the way of that path so you're not high-fiving the defenders on the way past. A few bosses/minibosses were made less of a joke; Kel'thuzad's Necromancer form is a Hero now, and he uses Death Pact to heal himself (that's all he does, however; doesn't even use the Necromancer spells that I have confirmed in the editor that he has) and both of the new minibosses in Culling ported backward from the Wrath of the Lich King dungeon (Meathook and Salramm the Fleshcrafter) were made a lot more painful; Meathook's Disease Cloud hits like a freight train, and Salramm the Fleshcrafter just also hits like a truck and does AoE, in addition to the Finger of Death spell I'm pretty sure he already had. Sylvanas on Hard Mode now gets Starfall starting from Key of the Three Moons. There's even an instance or two of a fairly major terrain change; they added a way in the third Orc level to reach the Goblin Laboratory without fighting the humans, though the changelog noted a "special surprise" on said path, but I haven't seen that level yet. There's a lot more, too, and though most of it is hardmode-specific, it's a very interesting set of changes. I'm just sad they were sat on for two years, and thus it's unlikely we'll get anything similar again any time soon. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 08:42
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For the record, I'm still salty that they weren't able to re-record dialogue like they originally wanted to. Not because I necessarily wanted the new dialogue, but because not being able to resulted in the terribly-spliced "HELLSCREAM"s in the Orc campaign(s). I still don't get why Blizzard refuses to allow the name "Grom" to be used anymore.
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Aug 20, 2022 03:33
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