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I acquired a technical manual on German bombs, rockets, grenades, etc of World War 2. Wikipedia also has a laughably small amount of info on the different bombs used, in fact I don't think it even has a page on common bombs. With that in mind, and a lot of spare time, I figured it might be interesting to some people. Coming from a TM, the info is very dry, with little background information, and loaded with numbers and properties. If you know anything about German bombs used during that time you know that they come with an abbreviation that denotes its construction or purpose. These are: pre:Designations German English SC Sprengcylindrische H.E. Cylindrical general purpose SB Sprengbombe High capacity bomb SA High capacity bomb SD Spreng Dickenwand H.E. thick walled, semi-armor piercing, fragmentation SD(small) Anti-personnel SBe Splitter Beton Concrete fragmentation bomb PC Panzerdurschlag cylindrische Cylindrical armor-piercing bomb PD Panzer Dickenwand Armor-piercing BT Bomben Torpedo Torpedo bomb SP Splitter Fragmentation (anti-personnel) ZC Zementcylindrische Cement cylindrical bomb BLC Blitzlichtcylindrische Photoflash bomb KC Kampfstoffcylindrische Chemical cylindrical bomb NC Nebelcylindrische Smoke cylindrical bomb SB bombs are designed to produce the maximum blast effect. Built with thin walls, they have as much as 80 percent loading. Instantaneous fuzing is used. SD types are used against targets which are vulnerable to fragmentation damage. Usually, they are fuzed for immediate detonation and may have extension rods in order to explode above ground. The walls of bombs in this category are thick and uniform between variants, with a slightly heavier nose. Loading factors are around 35 percent. They are distinguished from other bombs by the red paint on their tail cone. (Small) SD bombs are a seperate group as they are entirely different bombs, rather than smaller versions. These have thick walls and a low loading factor. In most of small SD bombs, mechanical fuzes are used instead of electrical, and usually kept in containers. SBe, or concrete bombs, are used in the same way as SD's. They have thick concrete walls reinforced with steel. Low power explosives, along with a 20 percent loading factor, are normally used. The PC armor-piercing bombs are most often used against ships and fortifications. They often have short delay fuzes to allow for penetration. PC bombs are slightly streamlined and have heavy noses and thick walls. Construction is made with cast steel, with the nose specially hardened. Their loading factor is 20 percent and filled with a TNT wax mixture. Dark blue paint on the tail cone identifies them. In the event that PC bombs are used as fragmentation, and thus fuzed instantly, the dark blue may be overpainted with red. PD bombs are even more exclusively armor-piercing. They are longer, thinner, have thicker casing and a lower loading factor. The bomben torpedo (BT) was never used operationally but was put into production within the last 2 months of the war. Coloring Bombs that are carried internally are usually colored dark green, and externally carried bombs are painted More next time...
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Mar 1, 2015 17:19
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German Bombs, Rockets, Mines and more - Part 2 The manual I have has a very handy illustration showing off how the Germans marked their bombs.  Several differences are immediately noticeable, namely the different tails and the "Kopfring". The suspension lug is also worth going into detail. Tail construction For German bombs, two types of tails were employed. The first type was constructed of sheet steel and usually made in four pieces to form a cone with four fins. These fins could be unbraced, braced with tubular strusts or braced with a cylindrical strut. The second type of tail was of magnesium alloy and was cast as one piece, with a cone and four fins. The fins for the second type may be braced with cylindrical struts of the same material as the tail.  Suspension/stowage Several methods of carrying bombs, internally or externally, were used. Bombs up to and including some 500kg types could be stowed either horizontally or vertically. All other bombs were carried horizontally. Vertically suspension was accomplished by an eyebolt threaded into the nose of the bomb. 50kg bombs suspended horizontally was done with an eyebolt, 250 kg and 500kg bombs could be suspended either with a threaded eyebolt or threaded T-type lug. Anything larger had to use an H-type threaded lug. The H-lug was secured to a carrying band on the bomb, or directly to the bomb body. SC 1000 and SC 1200 type bombs have been known to use a U-bolt secured to the carrying band on the later models.  Kopfring Nose rings, as they are called, are sometimes fitted to the nose of SC bombs to prevent excessive penetration against land targets, and prevent ricochets against sea targets. Some SD 70 and SD 1700 bombs have been known to use Kopfrings against the aforementioned targets.  Anti-ricochet plates ARP, as I'm going to call them, function the same as Kopfrings except are entirely different in construction. Two types of ARPs are used, with Type I's being fitted to SC 250 bombs and Type II's attached to SC 50 bombs. The Type I was comprised of a conical cup and a dished plate welded to it. The conical cup was 3/16 inch steel and was designed to fit on top of the nose of the bomb. The dished plate, 10 inches in diameter, fit over the conical cup and was welded to it. The Type I is attached to the nose via a threaded bolt that passes through a hole in the apex. The Type II, used on SC 50 bombs, was made of a circular plate 5 3/4 inches in diameter and 15/16 inch thick, and machined conically to fit over the nose. Welded to the plate was a circular cup 2 11/16 inches in diameter, and the entire assembly was attached to the bomb's nose via a centrally mounted bolt.  Dinort Rods Dinort rods are secured to the nose of SD type bombs in order to obtain an air burst explosion. Two types of rods were used: steel, and wood. Steel rods consisted of a drawn steel tube with a circular steel plate welded to the base and a steel cup welded to the top. A threaded lug is welded to the upper end of the tub and passes through a hole in the cup. This lug screws into the suspension lug in the nose of the bomb. Steel Rods pre:SD 50 SD 70 SD 250 SD 500 Length of rod 23.6" 23.6" 14.8" 14.8" Diameter of rod 1.75" 1.75" 2.75" 2.75" Diameter of plate (base) 4.7" 4.7" 9.45" 12.6" Diameter of cup (top) 3.6" 5.5" Wooden Rods Overall Length: 22.6" Width of centre section: 2.25" (Square) Width of the base - Smaller square: 4" (square) - Larger square: 4.25" (Square)  SD and HL Hollow Charge Bombs / Hollow Charge Nose Device For SD 250 bombs with a hollow charge, the cavity is semi-circular in section. The cavity for a SD 500 bomb is a truncated cone, with the large diameter being 30cm and the small diameter being 11cm. The H.E. charge has a metal lining for the cavity which is supported on a flange, located at a distance from the nose approx. 1.5 times the diameter of the cavity, in order to permit the formation of a jet. The opening at the nose of the bomb is around 5 1/4 inches. The 250 H.L. will penetrate 35cm of armor plate, the 500 H.L. will penetrate 62.5cm of armor plate, or 350cm of concrete. Performance figures for the 800 H.L. are unavailable but, with a H.E. charge of 110kg, it was hoped to penetrate up to 100cm of armor or 6 meters of reinforced concrete. The special nose device, used with the SD 250 bomb, consists of a hollow charge that is attached to a standard type bomb. The charge weighs around 4kg and is detonated by its own fuze located in the nose of the device. To remove the possibility of damaging the bomb, the space between the charge and the bomb was filled with a mixture of sawdust and cement. It should be noted that information on Hollow Charge bombs comes from documentary evidence only, as stated by my book. The SD hollow charge bomb did not live up to its expected performance, and modifications were made which resulted in the production of the H.L. type of bomb. The special nose device for the SD 250 performs better at lower altitudes. It works by punching a hole in the armor for the bomb to subsequently pass through. The bomb has a short delay fuze so that detonation will occur inside of the target. Documents state that such a bomb will penetrate 7cm of armor plate. Next time: I might actually start talking about specific bombs!  (I'm taking photos with my phone, A.K.A. no re-sizing)
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Mar 2, 2015 08:51
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German Bombs, Rockets, Mines and more - Part 3 SC 50 Bombs SC 50 bombs were used pretty much everywhere and by a wide variety of aircraft in the Luftwaffe's inventory. Medium bombers like the He-111 carried them in large strings, which varied depending on their bombload capacity, for a maximum of 32 x 50kg bombs; the Stuka dive bomber also supplemented any heavier bombs with 2 or 4 50kg bombs; fighters used in the CAS/Ground Attack role also used the 50kg, the Bf-109 could carry 4 of them at a time on an ETC 50 Rack; even Reconnaissance aircraft could be fitted with several SC 50's if needed. SC 50's were the smallest standard SC type bomb, and have several versions and "grades".  SC 50(-kg) Bi Data: Overall length: 46.1" Body Length: 30" Body Diameter: 7.9" Wall Thickness: 2.0 to 2.6 inches Tail Length: 16.1" Tail Width: 11" Filling: Cast TNT, Amatol, or Trialen Weight of filling: 24.4 kg Total Weight: 55.5 kg Charge/Weight ratio: 45.75% Fuzing: Series 5 or 8 Color: Dark gray or green overall Construction The Bi is a one piece cast steel body machined down, and all fittings are welded in place. The bomb is threaded at the base to accomodate a male base plate. A steel diaphram with a central hole is located 3 3/4 inches forward from the base plate. When being filled, the explosives only come up to thhis diaphram. The tail cone is made of 4 pieces of sheet steel welded together, which is subsequently secured onto the bomb by 8 screws. One transverse fuze pocket is located in front of the suspension lug. The back/bottom of the fuze pocket is welded to the opposite wall. The pocket is long enough to fit a normal sized electric fuze and 2 picric pellets. The nose has female threads for a eye bolt for vertical suspension. It may also accomodate a shock plate welded to the nose for use against water targets. (SC 50 Bi bombs are very similar to the Ja and L series)  SC 50 Grade I - Ja, L, and Stabo Data Overall length (Ja nad L): 43.3" Overall length (Stabo): 61.8" Body Length: 30" Body Diameter: 8" Wall Thickness: 0.16 to 0.24 inches Tail Length: 16.1" Tail Width: 11" Filling: Cast TNT, powdered Amatol, or cast Trialen Weight of filling: 21 to 25 kg Total Weight: 48 to 55 kg Charge/Weight ratio: 46% Fuzing: Series 5; 8; or 25B; ElAZ (38) for water targets. Stabo bombs may also take 17 or 57 Construction The Ja's body was built from drawn steel as one piece. The L is the same as the Ja aside from being seamless tubular steel. The Stabo is like the Ja, but with a threaded lug forged to the nose of the bomb. A steel spike, 18.5 inches long and 1.8 inches in diameter, can be attached to that lug. Like the Bi, the sheet steel tail cone is attached to the bomb with 8 screws. Later models had a collar welded around the neck of the bomb which the tail was secured to. Interestingly, the tail fins had holes in them, and screamers could be attached to them. The bombs could be modified for use against water targets by removing the tail fins. "It is claimed ballistics are not changed up to an altitude of 200 meters." When used against water targets, the ElAZ (38) fuze is used. This fuze had a maximum delay of 5 seconds, allowing 12 to 18 meters of water travel. An anti-ricochet plate is bolted onto the nose in this kind of attack, permitting a much smaller angle of impact without ricochet. Suspension Horizontal or Vertical (with an eyebolt) Color Sandy gray or dark green overall. Yellow stripes on each segment of cone.  SC 50 Grade II - JB, JC, J, J/2 Data Overall length: 43.3" Body Length: 26.4" Body Diameter: 8" Wall Thickness: 0.16 to 0.24 inches Tail Length: 16.1" Tail Width: 11" Filling: Cast TNT, powdered Amatol, or cast Trialen Weight of filling: 21 to 25 kg Total Weight: 48 to 55 kg Charge/Weight ratio: 46% Fuzing: Series 5, 8, and 25. ElAZ (38) for water targets. Construction The JB type was built as a one-piece nose and body, and the base was welded to the body. The JC was of pressed steel body and drawn steel body. The J is an early version of the JB, and is of identical construction. The J/2 is similar to the JC type, with the only difference being in the quality of steel used. The JC type was built only in small numbers. The sheet steel tail cone is riveted to a ring which is secured to the body by 8 screws. As with Grade I bombs, screamers can be attached to the holes in the fins. They may also be modified for use against water targets in the same ways as Grade I bombs. Suspension Horizontal or Vertical (with an eyebolt) Color Sandy gray or dark green overall. Yellow stripe on each segment of tail cone.
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Mar 3, 2015 12:17
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MrYenko posted:NaziBombs Question: Were the Luftwaffe specs in mixed units, or are you deriving from US/UK wartime/postwar intelligence, which I would imagine would use primarily imperial units? The book was written by the US Military, in 1946. My book is a 1969 reprint. Edit: I should note that their is an online PDF for the book, as well as a Technical Manual on German Projectiles and Projectile fuzes; Japanese Army and Naval Explosives; and French and Italian Explosives. I will be posting the link to them tomorrow in case anyone wants to skip my daily(?) format. The PDFs aren't in good shape though, and whoever scanned them lost a lot of detail on some photos (Being rendered almost entirely black) and tons of artifacts that obscure text in some cases. Edit 2: I forgot to mention a book on British Explosives, but I haven't found an online PDF for it. A book on Russian munitions exists but I cannot find a physical copy and the only location that has it has locked it to the public (The report is"U.S. GOVT. ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED"). I think a US Munitions book also exists, but I have to double check. At the moment, I've got the Japanese + French and Italian book incoming, so posts about their scarcely, if ever, talked about bombs can get some proper attention. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 12:49
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tonberrytoby posted:That reminds me of something: Several kinds of body armour were tried out by both sides, although I believe their effectiveness was very limited.
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Mar 4, 2015 12:53
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German Bombs, Rockets, Mines and more - Part 4 We're going to deviate a little today and talk about a few complicated bombs the Germans used on several occasions, with varying results. As the war went on and new technology was being made available, especially in the fields of radio and rocketry, it was only a matter of time before guided munitions would replace strings of bombs and bullets as the primary weapon, although never completely. The Germans, as far as I know, were the first to used Precision Guided Munitions or PGM operationally, and the US were second, using theirs against Japan beginning in early 1944. One of the more well known guided bombs used by the Nazis was the PC 1400 FX Radio-Controlled Glide Bomb, popualrly called Fritz X. This type of glide bomb was used in the attacks on the Italian Battleship Roma, and led to its sinking. Other ships damaged or sunk by Fritz X were: HMS Warspite, USS Savannah, HMS Uganda, and several others. The FX 1400 could be carried by several different bombers, including the He-111, Do-217, and He-177, although it seems that it was almost always used operationally with Do-217's from KG100. Because it had to be guided by the bombardier of the aircraft, the Fritz X had a few disadvantages; The aircraft needed to maintain vision of its target at all times, and was susceptible to jamming.  PC 1400 FX Radio-Controlled Glider Bomb Data Overall Length: 130" Length of the Control Unit Housing: 16" Length of Fins at the Root: 31 5/8 inches Length of Fins at Outer Edge: 18 1/4 inches Length of Fin Leading Edge: 18 5/8 inches Max Width of Tail Unit: 18" Min Width of Tail Unit: 33 3/4 inches Span of the Fins: 58 3/4 inches Weight of the Filling: 270 kg Total Weight (Approx.): 1,650 kg General Description The PC 1400 FX is a radio-controlled glider bomb designed for attacks against capital ships or similar targets. The bomb is assembled from three pieces: the H.E. armor-piercing warhead, control unit housing, and tail assembly. Four fins are also attached near the center of gravity to provide enough lift for the tail unit to operate. The warhead is an ordinary PC 1400 kg bomb with the four previously mentioned fins attached. There is one transverse fuze pocket just aft of the H-type suspension lug. The warhead is usually a mixture of 50/50 amatol filling. The typical fuze used with this bomb is the El AZ 38B with very short delay, and sometimes fitted with an extension cap. Alternative fuzes employed are the El. AZ 28A and the El. AZ 35. The control housing unit is made of cast aluminium alloy and contains: gyroscopes, radio receiver, power source, and a small detonation charge for destruction of the control unit. The two gyroscopes, located at the rear of the CHU, are mounted at 90 degree angles to each other and they control the stabilizing flaps. The direction is controlled by servo motors which are moved by impulse from the radio. A 24 volt battery powers the unit. The demolition charge, 1 1/2 pounds of penthrite wax, is usually fuzed with the VZ 80 "all-ways actions" fuze, and is supposed to destroy the directional equipment in case the warhead fails to detonate. The tail unit is constructed of cast magnesium alloy. Operation The PC 1400 FX was used in conjunction with a Lofte 7D bombsight. To operate the bomb, the bombardier had to switch on the gyroscope of the bomb 2 minutes before release. Immediately before launching, the bomber lowers its flaps and speed, and enters a climb. As the bomb is released, the bombardier starts his stop-watch since he can take control of it after 15 seconds have passed. "It has been estimated that the missile can be guided with a margin of error of only 50 meters from an altitude of 7,000 meters. From 7,000 meters, it takes 42 seconds to reach sea level; From 6,000 meters, 38 seconds. The lowest possible height for satisfactory release is 4,000 meters. At the moment of impact, after being dropped from 7,000 meters, the bomb is said to have a velocity of 270 meters per second or 972 KM/H. **: The book doesn't mention it, but the Fritz X has a flare in the tail to facilitate guiding for the bombardier.  Stockmine (A/P) Data Length: Approx. 22" (including picket) Diameter: 2.8" Total Weight: 4.6 pounds (mine only) Explosive: Bohrpatrone 28 Explosive Weight: 100 g Material: Concrete (shrapnel-filled) - wooden picket Pull or Pressure required: 6 to 11 pounds Fuzing: Z.Z. 42 (normal); Z.Z. 35; Z.U.Z.Z. 35. Description The mine consists of a concrete cylinder composed of weak cement and mortar, with the cement holding pieces of shrapnel. Inside the concrete cylinder is the explosive charge. Bohrpatrone 28 was used in the Stockmines found in North Africa, as it was designed for the tropics. The explosive charge could be substituted with an ordinary commercial charge. The igniter, attached to the detonator, fits into a recess in the top of the mine. The mine is mounted on a wooden picket and driven into the ground. Operation When the mine goes off, a belt of shrapnel is thrown out in all directions and the concrete is reduced to dust. Effective radius of approx. 30 yards. Employment Stockmines are usually laid in depth on narrow tracks and in ravines and defiles. They can also be laid in staggered rows to form mine belts.  Concrete Ball Mine (A/P) Data Diameter: 10" Total Weight: Approx. 2.2 pounds Color: Gray Material: Concrete Fuzing: ZDSCHN-ANZ 29 Description The spherical shaped body of the mine consists of concrete with embedded shrapnel used as an aggregate. A central cavity is left to allow for the insertion of an explosive charge using either: Two 500g and One 200g charge, or One 500g charge with One 200g charge. In the latter set of explosives, the igniter assembly is countersunk into the mine. Operation The igniter may be pulled by hand, initiating the safety fuse which in turn fires the detonator and charge. In these cases, the mine may be rolled down a hill or cliff into enemy troops. It is also possible to peg the igniter to a stake below the bomb in such a way that if an attempt is made to remove the mine, the igniter will be actuated. If you wish to download a copy of the PDF, please check out: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/ or direct link: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1985-2-German.pdf They have the Explosive Ordnace books listed under TM9-1985-X. The book I am currently reading, German Explosive Ordnance Part 1, is a 1953 print and the quality of the scanned document leaves a lot to be desired. I'll keep posting excerpts from the book(s), although I don't plan to post anything on fuzes, unless you guys want them.
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Mar 4, 2015 12:58
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Cyrano4747 posted:The real gently caress you though is that a lot of the WW2 era bombs (well, that the USAAF dropped - I remember the article specifically mentioned this guy was a bit of a specialist in American ordinance) had a secondary, timed fuse that was designed to blow it later if the inertial fuse failed to go off. Or, alternatively, just a timed fuse as a general "go gently caress yourself" to the fire and emergency crews that responded to all the destruction the bombers just caused. Again, here is where the geology gets important. Remember how I said there is bedrock under that silt? It's close enough to the surface that the bombs would actually go through the silt, slowing as they went, then ricochet off the goddamned bedrock and end up back in the silt pointed nose up. This caused all sorts of havoc with the timed fuzes, which were pretty crude chemical designs based around a vial of something or other breaking and eating a bunch of early plastic something else that was holding the important bits of the detonators apart. The Germans did that poo poo all the time too, and I wouldn't be surprised if everyone else did it. Timed fuzes, in addition to regular contact or simply interspersed with the regularly fuzed bombs, meant wreaking havoc with rescue and repair work. The Allies, from what I understand, used it against German airfields a lot to hamper efforts to bring landing strips to operational status and thus reducing local airpower in an area. chitoryu12 posted:The Ho 229 was cool, but the article even admits that it ended up being a non-factor because they could never get it to work. The entire history of the Nazis could be summed up in "They could have won if not for these massive, insurmountable flaws." I'd say it's more that they experimented too much and had too little time. Wunderwaffen aircraft were designed around a 1,000 x 3 requirement: Carry 1000kg payload 1000km with a speed of 1000km/h. There's a story about how a Ju-290 was able to fly within 20 miles of New York city, once, sometime in 1943 but that story'll probably show up in a few years when people start circle-jerking over new material once the rehashed "HOW THE NAZIS ALMOST WON" stories start getting repetitive, again. Hell, I'm gonna call it now! 24 years from now, at the hundredth year anniversary you'll see plenty of "What if" poo poo. You want a stalemate or German victory? Come up with a scenario where they beat the Russians and still have most of their army, done.
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Mar 4, 2015 22:09
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HEY GAL posted:Edit: Googled "pike drill" to try to find some nice little pen-and-ink drawings from the 1670s or something that showed what I was talking about, did not find them, did find this: "I can get it up if I want to, babe, I swear!"
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Mar 4, 2015 22:11
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SeanBeansShako posted:Also, fun fact. Russian Infantry experimented with such hats in the mid 19th century as well. Hilariously, like the over the top bearskins and Albert model shako of the British soldiers in the Crimean war they were discarded fast and replaced with a simple peaked forage cap. That war was a uniform style death sentence. "In war, the first casualty is fashion."
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Mar 5, 2015 00:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:Then Germany gets glassed by the US around 1949 or so; that's pretty much the only alternative the way things were going. If Germany beats out Russia before D-day it would probably be very hard to keep any beachhead they create. Radar developments, etc, etc. There are a lot of factors one would have to look at and conditions to establish right off the bat.
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Mar 6, 2015 16:47
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xthetenth posted:AWPD-1 and/or 4. B-36. He meant glassed literally, look how tightly packed the Ruhrplex is. I get it, but you still have to fly over a lot of enemy territory with a lot more fighter cover
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Mar 6, 2015 17:02
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Raenir Salazar posted:It's possible the Germans can shoot down some of the bombers, particularly if there's any foreknowledge of the 'nuclear carpet bombing', but it'd be extremely difficult even if they somehow managed to push the performance envelope on any sort of napkinwaffle interceptors and probably nearly impossible with the prop interceptors they had; and doubly so if the American's (with/without the RAF) manage to maintain the same long range air presence they did in 1944. Assuming the American's don't disassemble and reassemble their nuclear production lines like they historically did you're looking at something like 200-300 warheads available at 1949-1950 or so all heading to different targets, the German's do not have the ability to stop that. So even in the best possible case of wish fulfillment for a German victory in Europe they're screwed and worse off. This leaves out any possible developments that they were or could work on, including jet interceptors, prop aircraft or rockets. Doesn't account for radar or other detection methods. Removes any possibility of neutral or other countries from changing their current status. I guess you guys are also assuming that German winning over Russia happens in '45? I mean, any bombing campaign would've probably been a complete poo poo show if the Germans won in late 42 and had much more manpower available for day and night squads. Disregards every other front aside from Western, and even then only takes into account the air war. It's not even worth arguing at this point, since coming up with a defense of an imaginary scenario where Germany "has a chance" always ends up with an Allied win and thinking otherwise labels you as sympathetic or something.
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Mar 6, 2015 19:59
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Ensign Expendable posted:It's an M3 Stuart. It's an M2 Light Tank. E: The Driver and Co-Driver hatches are M2 style hatches. At best/worst its an M2/M3 hybrid if you look at the gun's mantlet, coupled with the hatches. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 7, 2015 |
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Mar 7, 2015 20:18
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Ensign Expendable posted:The tanks look very similar, but the right vision slit on the turret and the shape of the sponsons indicate that it's an M3, not an M2. So did early M3's have the M2 hatches or is that a thing that was retroactively added to older tanks?
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Mar 7, 2015 20:52
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Since there was talk and questions about RAF Wunderwaffe, here's a few examples of some projects they undertook: Blackburn's B.20  Boulton Paul P.100  Boulton Paul P.92  The P.92 as designed, with large turret  Bristol's F.18/37  Handley Page HP.75  Miles M.39b  Saunders-Roe SARO SRA1  Japan had some super whacky designs too! Pa.400  Nakajima`s Fugaku (With 12(!) engines) 
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Mar 10, 2015 23:55
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Slavvy posted:The Bristol F18 seems like a forward-looking, sensible design. How come it never got past the whacky project phase? Too unconventional compared to the Typhoon/Tempest? My book covering British experimental planes has this to say about the Bristol F.18/37. "One basic design was proposed by Bristol which had three alternative engines, Bristol 'Centaurus', Napier Sabre or Rolls-Royce Vulture. No performance data survives but six machine guns were mounted in each wing outside the main wheels while a 100gal (455lit) fuel tank was housed in each inner wing. All versions had a span of 42ft (12.8m) while the respective lengths were 30ft (9.1m), 30ft 4in (9.2m) and 30ft 8in (9.3m)." I would assume that the design was too radical for its time. Specification F.18/37 also had these candidates: Gloster F.18/37, Hawker Tornado, Hawker Typhoon, Supermarine Type 324, Supermarine Type 325. The Tornado used the unreliable Rolls-Royce Vulture and was dropped in favor of the Typhoon. The Supermarine planes never made it past the drawing board, although they would've looked like a cross between the spitfire and a beaufighter. Gloster's F.18/37 looks surprisingly similar to the de Havilland Vampire.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:56
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Cythereal posted:No need for it would be my guess. The RAF's existing inventory was doing fine (I think, not a RAF scholar) and it was clear to most that jets were going to be the next big thing. F.18/37 was for a 1937 specification. The RAF was pretty good about numbering/indexing their specifications.
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Mar 11, 2015 00:57
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bewbies posted:and probably limited ground attack capacity Would this have really mattered? The Hurricane, Spitfire and Typhoon weren't initially considered for their ground-attack capabilities, as far as I know.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:54
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bewbies posted:The Hurricane and Spitfire were from different specifications. F.18/37 was intended to create a "heavy fighter" with one or more of the big new engines coupled with the 12x.303 armament. There was also a provision in the specification for "alternative weapons" which is assumed to mean cannon and the heavy rockets then under development. Yeah but replacing the MG's with cannons wasn't that big a deal considering how the British fighter design progressed. Adding some rocket rails probably wouldn't have impeded it's performance more than other aircraft either. Fangz posted:How smart is the F18's twin tail design though? Seems like pretty soon everyone would be abandoning that feature in fighter planes, and not returning to the idea until the advent of twin engine fighter jets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_tail "Separating the control surfaces allows for additional rudder area or vertical surface without requiring a massive single tail. On multi-engine propeller designs twin fin and rudders operating in the propeller slipstream give greater rudder authority and improved control at low airspeeds, and when taxiing. A twin tail can also simplify hangar requirements, give dorsal gunners enhanced firing area, and in some cases reduce the aircraft's weight. It also affords a degree of redundancy—if one tail is damaged, the other may remain functional." It's not a bad idea, and was used in Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 02:52
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Fangz posted:Conventional explosives in a ballistic missile was never going to change the strategic picture. Only some sort of bioweapons program could have made a difference, and we should be glad the Nazis never figured that out. We should also be glad the Germans never smartened up and said "Hey, we can use those V2s on military targets on the frontline, or airfielss/supply depots/etc."
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Mar 11, 2015 15:24
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:^number I've seen is 500yds. But would that have been a result of the improper guidance they kept putting in due to misrepresented hits reported by double agents and British news? Also, what about Kursk or some other offensive as part of an opening barrage meant to suppress the defenders?
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Mar 11, 2015 17:39
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Eej posted:What about super regeneration so you can do all of the above and also never die on the field of battle. I, too, dream of becoming a Highlander someday.
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Mar 20, 2015 10:05
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SeanBeansShako posted:What sword would you use? Don't tease us with this now. Scottish Broadsword, like Mad Jack Churchill. Also, TIL Japan had 5 different types of chemical bombs they could deploy during WW2. The projectiles used had a coloured band near the middle of the shell for identification and were as follows: Yellow - Blister Blue - Choke Brown - Blood and Nerve Red - Vomit Green - Tear
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Mar 21, 2015 05:22
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Fangz posted:Did the allies use battlefield chemical weapons in WWII? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_warfare#World_War_II According to wikipedia, no. They did plan to use them in retaliatory strikes if Germany decided to deploy its own chemical weapons. The Japanese used them pretty frequently it seems, especially against the Chinese. Unless you count "the ship carrying mustard gas got bombed and released its contents" as explained by: quote:Accidental release
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Mar 21, 2015 13:13
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the JJ posted:I know it's a complicated situation, but keeping your retaliatory strike a secret kinda ruins the point of having it as a deterrent. It worked for Goering. Then again, it was Goering 
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Mar 21, 2015 13:48
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FAUXTON posted:Oh, definitely. I don't think losing a general would be considered a boon in any circumstance except maybe MacArthur getting killed after August '45 but before Korea. So what you're saying is MacArthur should've been in the car accident instead of Patton?
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Mar 22, 2015 10:22
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So a few weeks back I was doing some writeups on German bombs, and mainly dropped it because of the link I gave out to the online pdf for it, but I got my hands on the Japanese Explosive Ordnance book. Only thing is that it's Volume 2, which doesn't have an online copy readily available as far as I know. Long story short, the Japanese apparently had a tear gas round in 8mm and 9mm caliber and, according to the Technical Manual, would've been employed in a similar fashion as rifle grenades. They also had special purpose projectiles (Not sure what caliber, yet) that were sand-filled  .8mm and 9mm Tear Gas rounds posted:Remarks: The propelling case is rimless and made of brass. There is a tear-gas round, but specifications indicate that this is a relatively large missile and it is probably launched from the pistol somewhat in the manner of launching grenades from a rifle.
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Mar 23, 2015 12:10
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Arquinsiel posted:Putting out tanks that are on fire by shooting at them? You'd only get sand on the tank since it probably wouldn't penetrate anyway Although I assume it might be practice shells.
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Mar 23, 2015 16:48
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Arquinsiel posted:That's fine. You just bury it and dig it out later. Don't forget the shells with dehydrated food and/or rice 
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Mar 23, 2015 17:06
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Animal posted:Can you guys bring up some good examples of competent generals/officers who got screwed over after losing a war? I don't mean guys getting hanged for crimes against humanities because they had it coming, or soldiers of what was considered a rebel army. More like legitimate states warring against each other, a soldier doing his job effectively (maybe TOO effectively), ultimately losing, and the winning side just holding a massive grudge against him/her and making their lives miserable (or ending it.) Napoleon?
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Mar 23, 2015 17:35
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HEY GAL posted:Someone asked about armor and guns a while back, and I should have posted this picture. Black (Knight) drivebys were a thing back then?
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Mar 24, 2015 06:46
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Japanese Explosive Ordnance Vol.2: Army Ammunition | Navy AmmunitionArmy Ammunition Introduction posted:
The Japanese Army had two color systems for marking ammunition. The Old and New systems differed in the number of color bands they used, the New system had the body of the projectile colored to indicate the group in which the type of ammunition was categorized and the color bands determined specific properties. *I apologize for the quality of the photos, my copy of the book is less than perfect and I don't have the skill to re-draw them at the moment* Old Color System  Notes: Common Explosive Types Japanese characters giving the type number of the projectile (painted on projectile) and type number of the gun (painted on the case) appear only when there is a chance of confusion with similar projectiles or cases. Chemical (Gas or Liquid Filled) Projectiles  Notes: Special-Purpose Projectiles Projectiles designed for special purposes are painted black over all and are identified by a special symbol stenciled near the middle of the body. A list is provided in the New Color System. Weight Variation Marking The variation of individual projectiles from standard weight is important in the ballistics problem and can be corrected for insetting sights. The variation is therefore indicated by plus/minus signs painted on the projectiles code: Notes: Common Explosive Types Hollow charge ammunition is distinguished from other types in the H.E. high grade steel (yellow band) group by the presence of the symbol. Chemical (Gas or Liquid Filled) Projectiles  Notes: Special-Purpose Projectiles Projectiles designed for special as listed below are identified by the overall body color and by a special symbol stenciled near the middle of the body. code:^: Non-liquid Edit Army Projectiles - Part 1 Type 38 6.5mm Ammunition There are three different 6.5mm rounds detailed in the Technical Manual, describing the size and weight of the cartridge; Ball, Training, and Wooden. They all used the same case and vary in the length of the projectile, overall length and weight of the projectile. It is interesting to note that there were 2 training, or blank, rounds and 1 practice (Ball) round. Ball rounds had a CuNi or steel jacket and a lead core; Tracer rounds had a CuNi jacket and lead core; Blank rounds had either a paper or wood projectile; Practice ball rounds were snub-nosed, had a copper jacket and a lead core. To tell these rounds apart, they had a colored band located where the projectile and the case meet. The type of shot and color are as follows: Ball : Pink Tracer : Green Blank : Wood Blank : Paper (purple) Practice Ball : Pink The 6.5mm cartridge was, as mentioned in the introduction, still fairly common in the Japanese inventory. 6.5mm Rifles: Type I rifle, Type 1 rifle, Type 30 rifle, Type 35 rifle, Type 38 rifle, Type 44 Carbine, Type 97 rifle 6.5mm LMGs: Type 11 LMG, Type 96 LMG 6.5mm HMGs: Type 3 HMG Notes Ammunition when used in rifles and LMGs will be found in clips of 5 rounds each. When used in HMGs it will be found in feeder strips of 30 rounds each. The wooden bullet round is used with the rifle to launch the rifle smoke grenade. The paper bullet round is used to launch rifle grenades. The propelling powder used in the blank rounds is nitro-cellulose while in the other rounds it is graphite-coated nitro-cellulose. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Mar 24, 2015 |
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Mar 24, 2015 07:52
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Japanese Explosive Ordnance: Army and Navy Ammunition Army Projectiles: Part 2 Type 99 (Rimless) 7.7mm Ammunition Continuing the tradition of the 6.5mm round, the 7.7mm cartridge has several different sizes based on what type of projectile is used. There are 5 listed variants: Ball round with CuNi jacket and lead core; Tracer round with CuNi jacket and lead core; A.P. round with CuNi jacket and Hard Steel core; Blank round with Paper or Wooden projectile. The rimless 7.7mm round was used in: Rifles: Type 99 rifle, Type 2 rifle, Type 4 rifle LMGs: Type 99 LMG, Type 97 LMG HMGs: Type 92 HMG, Type 1 HMG To differentiate the ammunition, color bands were used similar to the 6.5mm Arisaka round. Type | Band ----------------- Ball - Pink Tracer - Green A.P - Black Blank - Wood Blank - Paper (purple) Notes The heavy machine guns use feed strips of 30 rounds. When used in light machine guns and the rifle, this ammunition is packed in 5-round clips. In addition to the usual brass cartridge cases, ammunition with a steel case has been found. Type 92 (Semi-rimmed) 7.7mm Ammunition While the varied Type 92 rounds have different lengths in some cases, the interesting part is that it did not have a blank variant in wood or paper. That being said, there were still 5 variants, all using a CuNi jacket: Ball round with lead core; Tracer round with lead core; A.P. round with Hard Steel core; Incendiary round with W.P. and lead core; H.E. round with P.E.T.N. and lead core. The semi-rimmed rounds were used in the Type 89, used by the Army Air Force, and the Type 92 HMG used by the Army. To differentiate the ammunition, color bands were used similar to the 7.7mm Arisaka round. Type | Band ----------------- Ball - Pink Tracer - Green A.P - Black Incendiary - Magenta H.E. - Purple Notes The type 92 HMG uses feed strips of 30 rounds. When used for aircraft flexible machine guns, this ammunition is packed in 5-round clips in a manner corresponding to the packing of rimless, rifle ammunition; but the clip is of larger size to accommodate the larger bore of the semi-rimmed type. The P.E.T.N. in the H.E. round is set off by the heat of the impact. 7.92mm Aircraft Machine Gun Ammunition The manual mentions a few oddities here. It mentions that the 7.92mm round was used in 3 different guns: Bren type LMG, Type 98 flexible ACMG, and Type 100 flexible ACMG. The Bren's would've been captured examples produced by the Chinese chambered in 8x57mm IS (7.92x57mm Mauser) and the Type 100 twin-barrelled design. The Type 98 was a direct copy of the German MG-15. Only 4 different rounds were used: Ball round with Gilding metal jacket and lead core; A.P. round with CuNi jacket and Hard Steel core; Incendiary round with CuNi jacket and W.P. and lead core; H.E. round with CuNi jacket and P.E.T.N. and lead core. Another oddity is the Ball type round did not have a color marking. Type | Band ----------------- A.P - Black Incendiary - Magenta H.E. - White Notes The Bren type LMG uses a box-type magazine similar to the US BAR LMG. The type 98 and type 100 ACMGs use saddle-type magazines. 8mm Pistol Ammunition There were no special rounds for the 8mm ammunition apparently, but yet there are mentions of a tear gas round? In any case, the 8mm round was a Ball type, CuNi jacketed and had a Lead core. It was used in the Type 14 Nambu pistol, Hamada (Type 1 or Type 2) type pistol, Type 94 Nambu pistol, North China Type 19 pistol, Model 1927, Type 100 SMG, and several other guns. Interestingly, the TM mentions a "Solothurn" submachine gun and a "Bren Type" submachine gun. Notes The propelling case is rimless and made of brass. There is a tear-gas round, but specifications indicate that this is a relatively large missile and it is probably launched from the pistol somewhat in the manner of launching grenades from a rifle. 9mm Pistol Ammunition Like with the 8mm pistol cartridge, no variants seem to exist or at the very least recorded in the manual. As you may have guessed, the 9mm round was of Ball type with CuNi jacket and lead core. The manual states they were used in the Type 26 revolver (Webley type) and the Smith and Wesson pistol, although I have no clue what that latter is. It should also be noted that the 9mm pistol ammo should really be called 9mm Japanese Revolver. Notes The propelling case is rimless and made of brass. There is a tear-gas round similar to that mentioned for the 8mm pistol cartridge. Next time: 12.7mm Cannon (Really HMG round) and 20mm Cannon ammunition
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Mar 25, 2015 12:28
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Japanese Explosive Ordnance: Army and Navy Ammunition Army Projectiles: Part 3 We start to get into the higher munitions, starting with the 12.7mm cartridge. It should be noted that the 12.7mm is similar to the .50 cal bullet, but the cartridges have different lengths, which is a very important detail as the diameter alone can be misleading. The Japanese Army only had one machine gun chambered in 12.7mm, the Ho-103 or Type 1, and was used in aircraft. The Ho-103 was sometimes referred to the Ho-104, and the only difference between the Ho-103 and Type 1 was that the former was used in a fixed position in the wings and the latter was used in a flexible position as a defensive gun on a bomber. 12.7x81mm Aircraft Cannon Ammunition Once again, it's a bit of a misnomer to call the 12.7mm round a cannon round, when examples like the MG131 13mm Machine Gun and the M2 Browning were not called cannons. In any case, the Ho-103 saw extensive use in the air force. 7 variants exist for it, although 3 differ only slightly. Ball: CuNi jacket and Lead core A.P.T.: Brass jacket with Steel core H.E.I. (fuzed Japanese): Brass jacket and P.E.T.N. incendiary and steel core H.E.I. (fuzed Italian): Brass jacket and P.E.T.N. incendiary and steel core H.E.I. (fuzed Fuzeless): Brass jacket and P.E.T.N. incendiary and steel core Tracer: CuNi jacket and Steel core A.P. (Italian): Gilding metal jacket and Lead tip - steel core As you might have suspected, the 12.7x81mm cartridge was copied from an Italian design. Colors and markings were: Ball: Red A.P.T.: Black or green and white H.E.I. fuzed: White H.E.I. fuzeless: Purple H.E.I. fuzed (Italian): Red, blue or green body Tracer: Green A.P. (Italian): Black tip on the nose Notes This ammunition was copied by the Japanese from the Italians. Of the two H.E.I. fuzed rounds, one is Italian and the other is a Japanese copy of it. The Japanese H.E.I. fuzed differs from the Italian round in that the fuze used is of two-piece construction instead of one. This ammunition is packed in 10-round cartons and is reloaded into metal link belts for use. An Italian 12.7x81mm cartridge  Type 97 and Type 98 20mm Ammunition For the purpose of clarification, ammunition will have the caliber and length of the case (IE: 20x142mm). 20mm rounds were used by 4 different Army guns, with the Type 97 round being used in the Type 97 antitank gun, the Ho-1 (flexible) cannon and the Ho-3 (fixed) cannon, while the Type 98 round was used in the dual-purpose Type 98 gun. The Type 97 was 124mm in case length, and the Type 98 was 142mm. Both cases were made of drawn brass and were rimless. The case is crimped to the projectile by three long crimps and sealed by a clear lacquer. Propellant: The propellant is graphited smokeless powder made in single perforated cylindrical grains approximately 1.5mm in diameter and 3mm in length. The weight of the propellant in the small case is 35.8 grams and, in the large case, 58.9 grams. 20mm (20x142mm) High-Explosive Tracer Projectile Overall Length: 20.8 cm Length of projectile: 81.3mm Weight of projectile: 128.8 grams Filling: Cyclonite, tracer composition Color and markings: Black body with yellow band just aft of bourrelet and white badn forward of rotating band. Fuzing: Type 93 small instantaneous fuze Used in: Type 98 antiaircraft/antitank gun Notes: This projectile is made of steel with two cavities separated by a septum. The round is characterized by a sharp bourrelet.  Next Time: 20mm Ammunition continued... This book is rad and great and everyone should have a copy of it...   
Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 10:39
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Raskolnikov38 posted:It is, just don't be running for President when you do so. What if you saved every last one of your birthday cakes? Also, I'd be surprised if they declassified the Swedish evaluation on the T-72, T-80 and MT-LB considering how Soviet WW2 explosive ordnance is still locked away, although maybe the two topics fall under different restrictions?
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Mar 28, 2015 01:51
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Can you elaborate on this? I thought that explosives had like a 20-30 year shelf-life, tops. Does the modern Russian army just send its conscripts out to polish shells or something? The only technical manual(s) that I know exist were written up by the US armed forces for disposal units. Some of the books in the series were scanned and eventually made their way to paper form, however, copies are few and far between. I tried searching their relevant databases and archives for a digital PDF but they are currently locked away. "The report is"U.S. GOVT. ONLY; DOD CONTROLLED"." Is the message I got when I asked about it. That being said, I did manage to track down an expensive copy of the book, so I guess I'll see if its volume 1 or 2 and how badly I got ripped off soon!  Edit: I guess what I'm saying is I didn't mean the actual explosives are locked away, just the evaluation/documentation on them
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Mar 28, 2015 05:35
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Frostwerks posted:What game? Over the Top http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3705107 German thread http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3705109 Allied thread
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Mar 28, 2015 22:45
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:So turns out the third Ki61 still owns, it really just needed a couple upgrades. Semper Ki Well it did get cannons in the 3rd model so it was much more powerful than its MG-only armed predecessors.
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Mar 30, 2015 00:02
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Best April Fools Day Ever. I really need to finish Japanese ammo ASAP...   I'm not sorry about the potato pics, I'll get around to them eventually to get better quality ones.
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Apr 1, 2015 16:28
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JaucheCharly posted:Could you point out how being doormen and dummies for parades and then getting swallowed by the WM, put through the meatgrinder and the crumbs formed into a last ditch "Panzerkorps" in Oct. 1944 constitutes anything else than a dead end? For giggles you could research how many operational vehicles they had by then. You'd had to have some really low aspirations or a mental defect to sign up for something like that. They signed up in 1934 for something happening in 1944? That's quite the deadly premonition there.
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Apr 1, 2015 20:27
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