Northwestern University Football Team Unionizes

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axeil: Feb 14, 2006

This looks like it could be the beginning of the end for the NCAA's student athlete farce. Northwestern University's football team has filed paperwork to unionize.

Chicagoist posted:

An undisclosed number of Northwestern University�s football players have filed a petition to form a labor union with the National Labor Relations Board Tuesday. It�s the first time in the history of college sports that athletes are being asked to be represented by a union.

The petition was filed in Chicago by Ramogi Huma, president of the National College Players Association, with the technical backing of the United Steelworkers Union. Huma, who played college football at UCLA, said the filing �is about finally giving college athletes a seat at the table. Athletes deserve an equal voice when it comes to their physical, academic and financial protections.� Although the exact number of players who signed union cards isn�t known, at least 30 percent of the team needs to sign them in order for the filing to take place�26 of Northwestern�s 85 football players are on scholarship.

Huma told ESPN�s �Outside the Lines� NU quarterback Kain Colter reached out to the NCPA last spring for help in organizing and was spearheaded the labor effort, which culminated in a series of weekend meetings with other players. Colter, Huma and former UMass basketball player Luke Bonner also created a union called the College Athletes Players Association that would represent the players, if the petition is recognized by the NLRB.

Convincing arguments have been made in recent years to pay college athletes for their efforts on the field, court, ice and tracks. Tyson Hartnett, writing for the Huffington Post last October, equated being a college athlete to having a fulltime job with an annual salary of $25,000�the average yearly cost of a four-year scholarship.

quote:
On a typical day, a player will wake up before classes, get a lift or conditioning session in, go to class until 3 or 4 p.m., go to practice, go to mandatory study hall, and then finish homework or study for a test.

The point of this is that a scholarship doesn't equal cash in a player's pocket. Even with any type of scholarship, college athletes are typically dead broke. But how much do the top NCAA executives make? About $1 million per year.

The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and its supporters have consistently taken the position that athletes are already being paid by attending college on full-ride scholarships. As the number of underclassmen leaving college football and basketball for professional careers has grown, the NCAA has started to re-think their stance. The subject of paying college athletes was a focal point of last week�s NCAA convention in San Diego.

United Steelworkers president Leo Gerard used to believe that before he spoke with Huma.

�(W)e were like an overwhelming part of the population in that we figured athletes were lucky because they're getting an education," Gerard said. "But then we looked into it and realized it's a myth. Many don't get a true education and their scholarships aren't guaranteed."

The NFL Players Association approved a resolution Tuesday "pledging its support to the National Collegiate Players Association (NCPA) and its pursuit of basic rights and protections for future NFLPA members.�

Colter told the Chicago Tribune the issue isn't about compensating players and anticipated a legal battle that could reach all the way to the Supreme Court.

Update 2:15 p.m. Both Northwestern and the NCAA responded to the union filing by Northwestern's football players today. Jim Phillips, NU's vice president for Athletics and Recreation, released a statement that should be the model for all official responses.

Northwestern University's VP for Athletics posted:
"We love and are proud of our students. Northwestern teaches them to be leaders and independent thinkers who will make a positive impact on their communities, the nation and the world. Today's action demonstrates that they are doing so.

"Northwestern University always has been, and continues to be, committed to the health, safety and academic success of all of its students, including its student-athletes. The concerns regarding the long-term health impacts of playing intercollegiate sports, providing academic support and opportunities for student-athletes are being discussed currently at the national level, and we agree that they should have a prominent voice in those discussions.

"We are pleased to note that the Northwestern students involved in this effort emphasized that they are not unhappy with the University, the football program or their treatment here, but are raising the concerns because of the importance of these issues nationally.

"Northwestern believes that our student-athletes are not employees and collective bargaining is therefore not the appropriate method to address these concerns. However, we agree that the health and academic issues being raised by our student-athletes and others are important ones that deserve further consideration."

Compare that to the statement from Donald Remy, Chief Legal Officer for the NCAA.

The NCAA posted:
This union-backed attempt to turn student-athletes into employees undermines the purpose of college: an education. Student-athletes are not employees, and their participation in college sports is voluntary. We stand for all student-athletes, not just those the unions want to professionalize. Many student athletes are provided scholarships and many other benefits for their participation. There is no employment relationship between the NCAA, its affiliated institutions or student-athletes. Student-athletes are not employees within any definition of the National Labor Relations Act or the Fair Labor Standards Act. We are confident the National Labor Relations Board will find in our favor, as there is no right to organize student-athletes.

source: http://chicagoist.com/2014/01/28/northwestern_university_football_pl.php

So what does everyone think about this? Is there any chance this works out? I don't know enough about labor law to know if the NLRB and others will approve the unionization.

edit: This article http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/1/28/5354718/college-football-players-union-pay-for-play lays out the demands the NU football players are demanding.

axeil fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 29, 2014

# ? Jan 28, 2014 22:53

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 01:12

swickles: Aug 21, 2006; I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know

Burn down the NCAA. I hope more schools follow suit and attack the NCAA from multiple angles at once.

# ? Jan 28, 2014 22:56

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

I hope it succeeds, Workers Of The World, Unite! :getin:

The NLRB is actually doing stuff now right? Obama finally got his appointments to the board through?

# ? Jan 28, 2014 22:58

Bigass Moth: Mar 6, 2004; I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...

Northwestern is about to have the worst walkon squad in the country.

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:02

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

rscott posted:

I hope it succeeds, Workers Of The World, Unite!

The NLRB is actually doing stuff now right? Obama finally got his appointments to the board through?

As far as I remember he recess appointed them a while back. And now that the Senate abolished the filibuster for executive branch appointments I believe the spots are filled permanently.

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:03

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I've always really liked Northwestern and now I like them more

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:09

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

I read some article that said a Colorado judge in the 50's ruled that "athletes" should be treated like "employees" when it comes to pay and benefits and such. The NCAA promptly created the "student-athlete" label to get around the ruling.

Waiting for a TFF lawyer to check in on on this issue

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:22

Athanatos: Jun 7, 2006; Est. 1967

Is this a big of a deal as it sounds, or one of those things that seems like it could change things but is really a footnote?

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:28

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Athanatos posted:

Is this a big of a deal as it sounds, or one of those things that seems like it could change things but is really a footnote?

One of the major things they're pushing for is paying football and basketball players so it depends what you think that will change.

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:31

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

Patrick Hruby's got a long article about the implications:
http://therotation.sportsonearthblog.com/can-college-athletes-unionize/

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:32

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

I think instead of asking to be paid by the schools, what the union would be asking for is the right for student-athletes to go make money on their own, because the schools act like the gestapo when it comes to trying to get cash.

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:33

Bird in a Blender: Nov 17, 2005; It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

Bigger thing than the pay, in my opinion, is that if they are treated as employees, then universities will have to cover things like workman's comp, possibly even unemployment. The insurance costs alone would possibly be cause enough for a lot of schools to shut down their programs.

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:41

Intruder: Mar 5, 2003

Is Mourningview going to be forced to say something positive about Northwestern?

# ? Jan 28, 2014 23:45

IcePhoenix: Sep 18, 2005; Take me to your Shida

ESPN's Legal Guy also weighed in on this

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10366061/northwestern-players-attempt-unionize-likely-fail-impact-far-reaching

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:02

superaielman: Mar 16, 2006; You can't harm me. Are you a fucking ass? Do you not know who I am? He must not know who I am.

swickles posted:

Burn down the NCAA. I hope more schools follow suit and attack the NCAA from multiple angles at once.

Universities want no part in actually paying student athletes. Why would they? It'd hurt their bottom line.

I'm also in favor of this action. Students are expected to treat their sport like a full time job in terms of preparation and commitment; I have no problem with them demanding some form of wages. Yes, they get scholarships, but that doesn't even cover the full cost of attending school.

superaielman fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jan 29, 2014

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:06

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

Bigass Moth posted:

Northwestern is about to have the worst walkon squad in the country.

They'll still end up with 3-4 wins somehow

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:10

African AIDS cum: Feb 29, 2012; Welcome back, welcome back, welcome baaaack

The sooner this happens the better. I want carnage, gently caress the NCAA.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:10

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

Yesss, burn the NCAA to the loving ground

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:11

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

Intruder posted:

Is Mourningview going to be forced to say something positive about Northwestern?

It's not gonna work so nah

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:16

Basil Hayden: Oct 9, 2012; 1921!

DOOP posted:

I read some article that said a Colorado judge in the 50's ruled that "athletes" should be treated like "employees" when it comes to pay and benefits and such. The NCAA promptly created the "student-athlete" label to get around the ruling.

Waiting for a TFF lawyer to check in on on this issue

This was in the Taylor Branch article from a couple years back, and originally comes from Walter Byers' Unsportsmanlike Conduct. The Colorado cases (one where a player not on grant-in-aid was injured during spring practice at Denver and successfully sued for worker's compensation, and one about a year later where a player on grant-in-aid died on the field and his wife unsuccessfully sued Fort Lewis A&M for workers' compensation) actually came after the definition of the term, which dates back to the early 1950s:

Walter Byers posted:

... It was then that they came face to face with a serious, external threat that prompted most of the colleges to unite and insist with one voice that, grant-in-aid or not, college sports still were only for "amateurs." That thread was the dreaded notion that NCAA athletes could be identified as employees by state industrial commissions and the courts. We crafted the term student-athlete, and soon it was embedded in all NCAA rules and interpretations as a mandated substitute for such words as players and athletes. We told college publicists to speak of "college teams," not football or basketball "clubs," a word common to the pros.
... I was shocked that outsiders could believe that young men on grants-in-aid playing college sports should be classified as workers. The argument, however, was compelling. In a nutshell: the performance of football and basketball players frequently paid the salaries and workmen's compensation expenses of stadium employees, field house ticket takers, and restroom attendants, but the players themselves were not covered. Even today, the university's player insurance covers medical expenses for athletes, but its workmen's compensation plan provides no coverage for disabling injuries they may suffer.
... College officials found that the term employee was being interpreted by state officials applying state laws in the interest of the people, not college faculty representatives and athletics directors interpreting college rules in the interests of the college.

Basil Hayden fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 29, 2014

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:28

Komet: Apr 4, 2003

This is the beginning of the end of the NCAA. It may also be the beginning of the end for college sports.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:35

Alfred P. Pseudonym: May 29, 2006; And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

Roll drat Northwestern

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:42

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

The interesting thing about this coming from Northwestern is that the program comes pretty close to fulfilling what NCAA likes to tout as type of benefits for its student-athletes in football and basketball. NU players must meet academic standards higher than the NCAA's minimums, their tuition is valuable than many other schools' because of Northwestern's insane, exorbitant tuition, and they almost all graduate. The fact that this effort is coming from Northwestern of all places is just more of a demonstration of the NCAA's greed and hypocrisy when it comes to fair compensation for athletes.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:51

tanglewood1420: Oct 28, 2010; The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized

Each player on the roster gets paid a standard flat fee from general merchandising and tv rights etc. Additionally, players get paid a percentage of any merchandise sold with their specific name or likeness on (jerseys etc.). Players are allowed to use their likeness to earn money outside of official college merchandising, but pay a percentage of these activities back to the school. All players are insured under a standard policy that pays out for serious injury which is covered by the NCAA and not individual schools (so smaller, less profitable schools don't get whacked on insurance claims). Players still have to enrol and attend classes like any other student and must remain academically eligible in order to play.

Problem solved.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:54

African AIDS cum: Feb 29, 2012; Welcome back, welcome back, welcome baaaack

Komet posted:

This is the beginning of the end of the NCAA. It may also be the beginning of the end for college sports.

Here's hoping. Universities would be smart to jump ship and spin off their athletic departments.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 00:57

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

axeil posted:

As far as I remember he recess appointed them a while back. And now that the Senate abolished the filibuster for executive branch appointments I believe the spots are filled permanently.

The validity of those recess appointments is at the center of a Supreme Court case that was recently argued and will be decided by June, so while I would assume that any NLRB determination made under the tenure of those appointees would be valid regardless of the judgment on the appointments (as the Justices as much as said in oral argument), who the gently caress even knows with the Roberts Court sometimes. So there're a lot of fun dimensions to this.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:02

Detroit_Dogg: Feb 2, 2008; Aaron Rodgers is gay and lame and oh please cum in me Aaron PLEASE I NEED IT OH STAFFORD YOUR COCK IS NOT WORTHY ONLY THE GAYEST RODGERS PRICK CAN SATISFY MY DESPERATE THROAT

Next stop student assistants/interns???

(No)

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:04

superaielman: Mar 16, 2006; You can't harm me. Are you a fucking ass? Do you not know who I am? He must not know who I am.

tanglewood1420 posted:

Each player on the roster gets paid a standard flat fee from general merchandising and tv rights etc. Additionally, players get paid a percentage of any merchandise sold with their specific name or likeness on (jerseys etc.). Players are allowed to use their likeness to earn money outside of official college merchandising, but pay a percentage of these activities back to the school. All players are insured under a standard policy that pays out for serious injury which is covered by the NCAA and not individual schools (so smaller, less profitable schools don't get whacked on insurance claims). Players still have to enrol and attend classes like any other student and must remain academically eligible in order to play.

Problem solved.

That's a lot of loving money the NCAA and schools are not going to be willing to pay out. I would expect to see a lot of programs shuttering rather than dealing with that kind of outlay of money. I'm all for pressuring the NCAA to change and (Like most everyone here) think the way they treat athletes is pretty lovely, but I don't think that solution is at all realistic.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:04

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

superaielman posted:

That's a lot of loving money the NCAA and schools are not going to be willing to pay out. I would expect to see a lot of programs shuttering rather than dealing with that kind of outlay of money. I'm all for pressuring the NCAA to change and (Like most everyone here) think the way they treat athletes is pretty lovely, but I don't think that solution is at all realistic.

The TV money would hurt but I think merchandise sales might go up if they're actually name branded (especially if schools can reissue classic jerseys), the rest of it is either a new revenue stream or is a cost that is spread pretty far as to not be too terrible.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:13

Whip Slagcheek: Sep 21, 2008; Finally
The Gasoline And Dynamite
Will Light The Sky
For The Night

tanglewood1420 posted:

Each player on the roster gets paid a standard flat fee from general merchandising and tv rights etc. Additionally, players get paid a percentage of any merchandise sold with their specific name or likeness on (jerseys etc.). Players are allowed to use their likeness to earn money outside of official college merchandising, but pay a percentage of these activities back to the school. All players are insured under a standard policy that pays out for serious injury which is covered by the NCAA and not individual schools (so smaller, less profitable schools don't get whacked on insurance claims). Players still have to enrol and attend classes like any other student and must remain academically eligible in order to play.

Problem solved.

Or you'd just see a majority of college programs completely shut down because school can't/won't make that size of investment.

They won't win so it doesn't really matter.

Whip Slagcheek fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 29, 2014

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:16

FeedingHam2Cats: Nov 10, 2009

Whip Slagcheek posted:

Or you'd just see a majority of college programs completely shut down because school can't/won't make that size of investment.

Good.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:22

Sash!: Mar 16, 2001

I loathe unions, but if this gets us closer to the NCFL, I'll back it like FDR showering Stalin with weapons.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:26

Oodles of Wootles: Nov 8, 2008; safe

Northwestern truly is Chicago's Big Ten team

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:28

wheez the roux: Aug 2, 2004; THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO LYNCH

Death to the Seahawks. Death to Seahawks posters.

this loving owns, go wildcats poo poo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN8kGzHH00I

roll drat union, kill the ncaa fascists

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:29

Needs More Ditka: Dec 3, 2005; We are ruthless and ask no quarter from you. When our turn comes we shall not disguise our terrorism.

Modern American universities are a farce and I'm in favor of anything that might kill them quicker.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 01:30

SlipUp: Sep 30, 2006; stayin c o o l

Maybe if some teams can only operate because of unfair labour practices then they should be forced to close rather than allow the continued financial exploitation of the young and talented??

# ? Jan 29, 2014 02:09

Idiot Wind: Sep 10, 2007; We hope anyone sees you again...

I can't believe it's taken this long for something like this to happen, and hopefully college sports finally get off the public payroll at major state universities (at the very least). It absolutely boils my blood that huge sums are devoted to renovating sports facilities and providing amenities (inaccessible to the majority of the student body) for a tiny sliver of incredibly talented athletes, based on huge donations from alumni who give money specifically for sports. The inanity of admitting these students to universities in the first place, when many (though not all) are demonstrably unqualified for higher education is equally ridiculous. Universities should be centers of education and research, not development leagues for the national professional sports associations. Having actual development leagues for college-age players would be a start (not being familiar with football or basketball, do these exist already?). Even spin-off athletics programs associated with the university (but independent from it) like other people in the thread have mentioned would be great.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 02:14

Hazo: Dec 30, 2004; SCIENCE

I've never been in favor of directly paying student athletes (colleges are for education, not minor league sports development), but if they want to use this as leverage for expanded athletic scholarships, medical insurance, travel expenses, more comped shopping sprees at Under Armour, etc. then I could get on board. Anything to even the playing field against the NCAA's exploitation that's gotten out of control.

edit: Or something like what Idiot Wind said too. Something needs to change, dunno if this is the way to go about it but if it kicks the association in the rear end enough to maybe consider restructuring then it should be worth it

Hazo fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 29, 2014

# ? Jan 29, 2014 02:24