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Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


ryan8723 posted:

I wasn't saying they shouldn't get anything ever, just that if athletes unionize in schools that run in the red that they will get nothing. The big schools can afford to treat players as employees. The small schools? Not so much.

I don't like the NCAA either but unionizing as "employees" is not the answer and will have a lot of bad unintended consequences.

What are the bad unintended consequences if not every college in america has a full range of sports?

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Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


computer parts posted:

I can guarantee you administration costs will be the vast majority of any of those costs you named and yet you spent most of this paragraph complaining about a gym.

If people were honest with themselves they would rage against the bureaucrats suckling on the tit of success. But most people in their heart of hearts would like a job with a chair and minimal responsibilities, so, yeah how about those wasteful swimming pools, dogg.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10695272/northwestern-wildcats-union-representatives-head-congress

quote:

The leaders who are attempting to unionize Northwestern football players will take their case to Capitol Hill lawmakers, aiming to protect the historic victory union organizers achieved last week.

Ramogi Huma, president of the College Athletes Players Association, told "Outside the Lines" that he and Kain Colter, the former Northwestern quarterback, will be in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday and Thursday for informational briefings with an undisclosed set of legislators.

"We want them to understand why we're doing what we're doing," Huma said. "Obviously, Congress has the power to affect conditions for college athletes as well, and we want to correct some of the false statements that have been made about what we're trying to do."

The closed-door meetings will follow mixed reaction among key politicians to last week's decision by the Chicago office of the National Labor Relations Board that football players at Northwestern qualify as employees under the definition established by federal labor law.

Strong support came from Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), whose son played soccer at the University of Virginia. He told The Washington Post, "Of course they should be able to organize. The way these people are treated by the NCAA and the universities themselves is really unpardonable, and I wish them well. I'll do anything I can to help."

Far less enthused was Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), a former U.S. Department of Education secretary and former president of the University of Tennessee.

"Imagine a university's basketball players striking before a Sweet 16 game demanding shorter practices, bigger dorm rooms, better food and no classes before 11 a.m.," he said. "This is an absurd decision that will destroy intercollegiate athletics as we know it."

For now, the matter squarely rests with the NLRB, which has ordered an election among all Northwestern scholarship football players with remaining NCAA eligibility. On April 2, the university must file a list of eligible voters. By April 9, it must file a "request for review" by the five-member NLRB board based in Washington. The university already has stated it will appeal the decision.

From there, the regional director for the NLRB in Chicago, Peter Sung Ohr, will have a couple of procedural options, both of which could shape the ultimate outcome. He can move ahead as normal with scheduling the election, within a five-day window at the end of April. If that happens, the votes likely would be impounded and not opened until any appeal by Northwestern works its way through the courts, which could take months or perhaps years.

By that time, more of the players who signed union cards in January will have moved on from the team. Already, Colter and the other seniors whose final season was last fall are ineligible to vote in the election, based on Ohr's decision limiting eligibility to those who still can play. Should the appeals process extend beyond the 2014 season, another class could be eliminated, if, at the time votes are opened, the NLRB decides to count only the ballots of current players.

So, one option before Ohr is to postpone the election until the appeals process concludes -- though that would be an atypical move; most elections move ahead despite employer objections.

"We definitely would like to hold the election as soon as possible," Huma said. "Hopefully, there will be no delay."

Huma said he is confident that no matter which course Ohr takes, players will vote to unionize under CAPA. He and Colter have said an "overwhelming majority" of players signed the union cards, and last week Colter, still a student at Northwestern, said support for unionization remains strong among his teammates.

The national NLRB board is seen by many legal analysts as unlikely to overturn Ohr's 24-page report, which sided with the players, citing the 40- to 50-hour commitment that players are expected to put into their football training, the special rules that apply to them compared to non-athletes, and their role in supporting a highly commercialized entertainment product. Northwestern football generated $235 million in revenues between 2003 and 2012, leaving a $76 million surplus after expenses.

CAPA draws its platform from the National College Players Association, of which Huma is also president. The stated goals of the NCPA are health and safety protections such as guarantees of medical coverage for injuries, minimizing college athletes' brain trauma risks, and raising the amount of money that athletic scholarships provide.

Ohr's ruling immediately prompted an NCAA statement objecting to the NLRB's decision. Since then, the National Association of Collegiate Athletic Directors has taken the same position, as well as the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, which promotes an education-first agenda. On the other side, the Drake Group, another academics-focused reform group, issued a statement of support for the unionization of college athletes.

The American public appears split on the question. In the days before Ohr's decision, an ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 47 percent of Americans supported the idea of a union for college athletes, and 47 percent opposed. The strongest support was among minorities and people younger than 40, and the least support was among white women. Support was also stronger among Democrats and Independents than Republicans.

Ohr's decision opens the door for football and men's basketball teams at 16 other private universities in FBS conferences to request that a union represent them, as the National Labor Relations Act governs private businesses nationally. Any move to create athlete unions at public universities would have to be pursued through state labor laws, which vary widely.

Huma declined to say if CAPA is talking with teams at other universities about unionizing.

"We're not going to comment," he said. "If it happens, people will learn about it after the fact."

We're leaving the realm of simplicity now. The Student-Athlete as a concept is going to fundamentally change in the very near future.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


N: Pat Fitzgerald urges against union

http://espn.go.com/chicago/college-football/story/_/id/10734087/pat-fitzgerald-urges-northwestern-wildcats-players-vote-union

quote:

EVANSTON, Ill. -- Northwestern coach Pat Fitzgerald is finally talking to his team about the unionization push and outlining why players should vote against forming a union later this month.

Fitzgerald broke his silence Wednesday after conferring with university attorneys. He had been unable to address the topic since January when Northwestern players, led by former quarterback Kain Colter, filed a petition with the NLRB to unionize. Fitzgerald read a letter to players and sent it to their parents, and has since addressed the topic another time.

"I believe it's in their best interests to vote no," Fitzgerald said Saturday following a team practice. "With the research that I've done, I'm going to stick to the facts and I'm going to do everything in my power to educate our guys. Our university is going to do that. We'll give them all the resources they need to get the facts."

Northwestern players will vote April 25 whether to form a union after the regional director of Chicago's National Labor Relations Board office ruled last month that players are employees of the school and have the right to unionize. Northwestern is appealing the ruling to the national NLRB office.

Fitzgerald is prohibited from making promises to players about benefits they would receive if they vote against unionizing. He also cannot make any threats or interrogate players on how they will vote. He is allowed to answer questions, provide materials and state his views on the topic until 24 hours before the voting period.

"Right now, we have great protocols in place, and we haven't been forced to do that by any third party," Fitzgerald said. "I know our guys trust me. I've been pretty clear with my support."

Several older Northwestern players on Saturday voiced their opposition to a union, while maintaining that changes must be made to help college athletes. They said the union debate has been a distraction. Quarterback Trevor Siemian said unionizing might hurt the Wildcats in their goal of winning the Big Ten.

"I think a lot of guys feel the same as I do," said senior center Brandon Vitabile, a member of the team's leadership council. "Coach Fitz has done everything in his power and been a voice for us and he has gotten changes. He goes to [American Football Coaches Association] meetings and does act in our interests. I've had conversations with him before all this happened.

"Guys have to realize the ramifications of what may occur."

Vitabile added that "no one knows" what unionization would mean for the players. The College Athletes Players Association, which represents Northwestern players in the union push, believes collective bargaining will help athletes receive long-term medical coverage, increase the value of scholarships, provide due process rights in disciplinary situations and allow them to profit from the use of their likenesses. CAPA has stated that its primary mission is not to get schools to pay players.

"Things do need to change, and I hope the NCAA sees that," senior running back Venric Mark said. "But at the end of the day, Northwestern treats us very well, and we do not need a third party to come in between us and the coaches."

Northwestern must file its request to appeal with the national NLRB office by Wednesday. CAPA then has seven days to file a rebuttal brief. The NLRB then decides whether it will consider the appeal.

If the NLRB considers the appeal, ballots from the April 25 vote will be impounded until a decision is made. If a majority of players vote to unionize and the appeal is denied, CAPA would attempt to start the collective-bargaining process. If Northwestern refuses, the case would go to federal court. If players vote no but the appeal is denied, they could vote again 12 months after the ballots are unsealed.

Vitabile confirmed that players are receiving information from both Northwestern and CAPA. Players will continue to discuss the pros and cons leading up to the vote, which will take place on campus at an undisclosed location.

"It is a little weird, but at the end of the day, we all have to take our own stance," Mark said. "You have to go with what you believe in. I strongly believe that Northwestern has done everything in their power to make me a better person and a better player. I'm taking my stance and everybody on the team knows that. But I'm not here to persuade you one way or another."

Fitzgerald serves on the AFCA's board of trustees and has discussions at both the Big Ten and NCAA levels about improving the experience for players. He said no current or former players asked him for help in improving their experience before filing the union petition.

"This is not a national issue," Fitzgerald said. "That's my understanding with the NLRB. This is that organization against Northwestern, and I have to educate our guys on that. That's what we'll stick to, the facts, and I look forward to unbelievable positive change."

Vitabile wouldn't speculate on whether the team is leaning one way on unionizing.

"The 25th [of April] is what really matters," Mark said.

V: Direct management with hiring & firing duties shocked, shocked that employees do not go to him directly with complaints nor had warned him about their attempts to gain recognition and restitution under federal law.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


quote:

The Division I board of directors is expected to vote in August on major governance changes that could include awarding cost of attendance to athletes and would also allow the so-called power conferences to operate under a model slightly different than everyone else.

"We're going to improve the lot for the real victims here, the top 32-64 teams in the nation that are limited in paying only .01% of a athletes worth as compensation. They should be allowed to pay .02% of an athletes worth. Because that's fair."

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


FizFashizzle posted:

A whole lot of NW football players are going to have incredible internships this summer.

There's going to be an SMU-style slush fund to bribe the players to not form a union, and when the NCAA finds out it'll be glorious

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


Friends don't let friends play with a serious concussion.

Football: not even once.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


Oh no the poor unfortunate parasites, won't someone think of the plight of the parasites!

quote:

X. YOU MUST KEEP THE CIRCLE UNBROKEN.
College majors like Exercise Science and General Education have long been assailed by critics as crip-course degrees, but shadow boosters see them as a vital way to perpetuate the cycle. If a player finishes out his eligibility and has no feasible future in the pros, he might return home and become a nearby high school coach. It doesn't matter if it's junior high or seven-on-seven camps; each means a new brand ambassador for the program.

"You win the gym teachers, and you can go a long way. That's why all those basket-weaving degrees are so important, because we need 'em on both ends. You need 'em to keep the kids qualified, and you need 'em to produce guys who can go back and coach and teach and help us."

It doesn't hurt that the system produces agents who often become the most powerful male influence in a young athlete's life. And there is, of course, a fiscal incentive for the ex-athlete to help steer future players in the same direction he went. The bag man doesn't expect any coach to push 100 percent of his Division I-worthy talent to any one particular place, let alone his alma mater, but rather pick spots for the big ones.

"Kids are going to grow up liking teams for one reason or another, but when it comes time to start seriously talking to them, you need as many folks as you can get. Mama wins almost every time. Mama's most important. But you get coaches with ties to the school, then you get one person who has all those kids' attention."

From The Bag Man Interview about bribes and immoral behavior inherent in every NCAA program. Even the "99% that don't go to the pros" are designed to become broken down tools for the machine.

But yes, lets again weep for the parasites.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


"Hey the the Ohio State University AD got paid $18K bonus because of the work of the synchronized swimming team."

"Oh yeah? Penn State's athletic director facilitated the rape of children."

Obviously our priorities are out of order. Burn Penn State.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


Those kids are about to get paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid under the table.

Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


Even beyond the 'B scabs 4 iPads' quid pro quo, the line about the former football alumni calling the current players and threatening to freeze them out of post-football employment opportunities is the most beautiful.

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Gerund
Sep 12, 2007

He push a man


FlamingLiberal posted:

Good luck with that. It's so hard to prove

Even the super-sloppy SMU slush-fund would be running to this day if there wasn't source reporting to an interested party.

In this case, it'll take all of one frustrated cut sophomore talking to a former team-mate to bring the NCAA down like a load of bricks.

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