Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition: Looks like we're the grognards, now.

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girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I'm converting RHoD to 4e, like so many others have done, and I want to make the Hydra fight something more interesting than just a leveled-down Solo monster, so I decided to give homebrewing something a try. Here's my attempt at a Hydra.

Hydra Head (x4), Hydra Body

My internal :spergin:

made me spend a lot of words to explain every specific corner case of a very simple concept: The Hydra's Body is an Elite Soldier with a lot of HP and Regen, but almost no attacks, while each individual head is a non-elite Brute (actually a Shark with slightly-nerfed damage) that has the usual "cut it off and it grows back". It's supposed to be a tough encounter, I figure about Level 7 if my players aren't super-quick on the uptake of how to keep the heads down (see also: maximum number of heads), which is alright, as they're Level 5, and stated a preference for tough fights.

I specifically wanted to make sure that A) it wouldn't require fire or acid to kill, because seriously, who specializes in loving acid, and B) it wouldn't punish the party for being either unable or unwilling to pursue my one specific line of logic for how to kill it. There are actually at least three distinct ways to kill the Hydra built in, not counting any that the players come up with, or convince me to let them make work.

1) The 'standard', cut off the heads and burn the stumps closed.
2) KO all still-living heads simultaneously with any type of damage that isn't untyped. Psionic, Lightning, Radiant, whatever. It's only the final blow that matters, so as long as the martial characters are careful, everyone can definitely still contribute. This one results in the thing being KOed, and can then be left or dispatched at leisure.
3) Ignore the heads, wail on the body until the whole thing keels over. Not exactly efficient, but definitely a "brute force" option if need be.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2014 11:56

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 10:31

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

My Lovely Horse posted:

I used to fudge rolls every now and then, but I resolved to do so no more. If my party gets crit-chained and wiped they get crit-chained and wiped. (But they don't get killed; if they all go down they wake up bruised and hurt and chained up by the goblins, but the next thing I say is "what do you do".)

This is the right decision to make. The alternative is that the players go through the whole game with no sense of risk. Why do you need to fight tactically if the DM's gonna always make sure you just barely survive?

Of course, this also has to come with properly-balanced encounters, and a willingness to break this rule if you accidentally make a fight way too hard for whatever reason.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2014 23:12

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Rexides posted:

I am toying with the idea of static monster attacks and active player defenses. Basically, the monster's attack becomes a DC 10 + attack bonus, and the players get defense rolls which are the defenses - 10 + 1d20. That way they have to actively try to block/dodge/resist the attacks while I am just standing there spouting numbers like an rear end in a top hat accountant. Has anyone tried something like that?

I remember it being an official 'variant rule' in some of the previous editions. It's very useful if your players feel like they're not getting to participate enough during the enemy turns. However, if there's already a lot going on, with interrupts and triggered abilities, and what-have-you, it might be best to keep things simple.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2014 10:57

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

My Lovely Horse posted:

One of my players has made a paladin with STR and CHA 12 and CON and WIS 18. His reasoning is that he doesn't care so much about hitting as about soaking up damage and being able to Lay On Hands, and he's planning to take mainly powers with effects.

I don't think this is altogether very sensible but I'm just gonna let him do his thing and prepare to provide ample opportunity to reassig ability scores for when he stops having fun.

On one hand, it's really admirable that he doesn't care about his stats so much as his character. On the other hand, 4e's not really a good system for that! I mostly agree with thespaceinvader, but don't just pound his poo poo into the dirt and frustrate him.

Let him go through a battle or two like that, and then, when he starts to get frustrated, offer him a chance to change his stats... and a minor bonus feat or somesuch to represent the toughness-and-strong-will that he seems to really want to convey. Maybe pop him Improved Defenses as a bonus feat, if he doesn't have it already.

VVV: Sounds like a plan.

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Feb 9, 2014

# ¿ Feb 9, 2014 12:07

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

thespaceinvader posted:

Class skill lists are probably the worst thing about 4e, so...

Isn't that what backgrounds are for?

# ¿ Feb 9, 2014 21:20

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Hey, I'm working on V Daivve maps and a Masterplan file for the 4e RHOD campaign I'm running. Would anyone be interested in the files once I'm done? I'll probably upload them by parts. Or even just posts about the encounters and how they were handled? Or is there a better thread for that?

# ¿ Feb 10, 2014 23:06

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Well, looks like I underestimated my party's capabilities. Because the walked all over the encounters. I might go back and buff them up a bit before I let anyone else see them. Because my shame at how badly they whupped what was supposed to be a tough solo fight is... significant.

They had fun at least.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2014 08:34

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

MMD3 posted:

I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use.

Can anybody recommend a fun gimmick to use for a lvl3 caster?

Vanilla Icestorm.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2014 08:17

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

My Lovely Horse posted:

Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really.

Also how is it supposed to work out that half the items you find are supposed to be common when there are only like 10% common items, is everyone just supposed to end up with Bracers of Mighty Striking? Sod that I'm making my own list. (Using PHB/AV/___Power books only though, maybe it's different with items from Essentials stuff.)

The decent one I heard was to convert all component costs to healing surges, based on value. Googling to try and find a decent compiled list has not turned out very well, though.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2014 11:26

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

thespaceinvader posted:

Your guess is as good as anyone's, and I'd be very wary of a character like that because, again, they're adding an extra mob to the field and contributing basically nothing to defeating it.

I'd disagree, if the buffs are good enough. 'Preventative' healing, so to speak. Of course, you'd need to buff someone's defenses by 4 to on average 'heal' even 20% of the damage they'd otherwise take, and a giant buff like that is usually a one-turn encounter power.

Also, putting out damage is much more effective preventative healing. :shrug:

# ¿ Feb 19, 2014 11:43

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Yeah, I've seen a "focus on absurd amounts of healing and nothing else" build "work", but all it did was make me add to the damage output of my encounters, without really making things any more interesting.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2014 18:16

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Lazylord works as well as it does because even though you're not doing much damage, someone is. The downside to the wonderfully robust math that makes 4e tick (well, aside from having to learn how to make it work FOR you instead of against you) is that you can't deviate too far from what's expected or else encounter balancing gets really wonky.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2014 18:51

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Gau posted:

Insert Coin games have kind of died out, but I've always been interested in playing/running a 4E one again. Would there be any interest amongst you guys in running such a thing? 4E makes a fun tactical challenge, and we could even do rotating DMs.

Insert Coin doesn't work nearly as well on PbP, where the fast-paced combat gets slowed down to "1-2 posts per day" speed.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2014 06:01

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

It even works well with Minions, since they never take damage on a miss. :shrug:

# ¿ Mar 4, 2014 13:03

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

A proper racial encounter power wouldn't hurt.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2014 02:10

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Myriad Truths posted:

Conceivably you could give people fewer feats, like one every three levels instead of every two, if your players are having to take low-impact feats that aren't interesting enough to remember. I think that would be alright.

I'm sorry, I'm sure you're of perfectly normal intelligence, but this is just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Making properly-balanced characters that keep up with the math actually requires giving more feats if they want to do anything but just take the required math-fix feats.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2014 03:34

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Nihilarian posted:

How many scorpion puns are there? Surely you'd run out quickly.

I'm sure the ones there are have some sting to them.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2014 01:34

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

killstealing posted:

Dailies should be really cool things that have a big impact imo, not things you just pop every fight.

When given the chance, most groups I've seen will pace themselves around 2-3 battles per long rest, maybe as many as 4 if they do well. Increasing the average difficulty of encounters (and thus, adjusting for more Daily usage in that way) with reasonably long sessions (4-5 hours, and not too much time lost on "hmm mwhat will I do, okay move and MBA") should hit about that same point, with the added bonus that you can throw big important fights at them and know they'll be ship-shape because you'll start them at new sessions.

ImpactVector posted:

I think the easier fix would either be to have narrative "days" where the DM controls the pacing or extend long rests to something like "a long weekend of downtime at a safe place".

This also works.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2014 03:46

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

P.d0t posted:

It depends how fun "downtime" is.

Maybe it's just because I'm too used to Mouse Guard now, but I feel like downtime is going to happen sooner or later no matter what.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2014 04:18

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

P.d0t posted:

So, I have basically no experience with spellcasting classes.

Are there any sort of class-independent builds for them, in the vein of Frostcheese or Charge-Kits for melee classes?

I assume there is Dilettante bullshit for casters too, right? Like, poach an at-will that counts as RBA and such.

Spellcasting isn't as complicated as you'd think, since it's really just power selection like everyone else.

If you're a striker, think about a damage type you like, and focus on it with feats and gear. If you're a controller, think about a condition or conditions (or damage type) you like, and focus on them with feats and gear.

There's definitely more ways to do it than just that, but those are the "still learning, I want something simple" ways.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2014 05:08

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Cold is good for controllers. Thunder is great for AoE. Lightning is also fun, and often goes hand-in-hand with thunder. Fire is great for ongoing damage. Acid is rubbish, too much resists it.

e:f;b

# ¿ Apr 12, 2014 05:46

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

fatherdog posted:

Why is cold good for controllers? Frostcheese is good, but additional piles of damage is more of a striker thing than a controller thing.

Cold is usually accompanied by slow, or other good controller-y things.

Case in point, Vanilla Icestorm.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2014 06:36

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

fatherdog posted:

...your case in point has half of frostcheese and a feat that gives -2 to fort whenhit by cold attacks. I'm not necessarily disbelieving your point, but your case needs some serious work.

Whoooops, so it does.

I'll shut up for now, go re-research my case.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2014 06:47

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

There is a reason that the chief rule of 4e is "reskin everything".

# ¿ May 13, 2014 15:37

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

starkebn posted:

Yes, the worst thing in play is the flat "curve" of the d20. A native 55% chance to hit in the maths is horrible.

Replace D20s with 3d6. Same average roll (10.5), much less swing. Critical hit if you get at least 2 6s, automiss if you get 2 1s.

# ¿ May 21, 2014 02:17

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Klungar posted:

The math on this seems off to me. I believe the probability of rolling at least 2 6s is 16/216, or 7.4%, a decent bit more than the 5% base crit chance. Similarly, the probability of rolling at least 2 1s is also 7.4%. Based on the anydice numbers, the probability of rolling at least a 16 is 4.63%, the same as rolling at most a 5. Seems like those would be better values to use: 3-5 is a automiss, 16-18 is an critical hit. 15-18 is 9.26%, which is close enough for 19-20 crit ranges, and 14-18 is 16.2%, which is a fair amount off of the 15% crit chance of 18-20, but since it gives such simplicity of the rule, seems worth accepting. Any reason to complicate things with the other rule?

Not that I can think of, once you get used to the ranges. I might actually use this in the future. Maybe even for a PbP game.

# ¿ May 21, 2014 05:51

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

Probably my favorite battle with this DM

I'm hoping you stopped playing with that DM.

# ¿ May 23, 2014 21:26

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Captain Walker posted:

Cool, thanks. I'm tempted to pick up the starter set to see if there's anything to it.

I've played a couple playtests, and wasn't impressed, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Discussion for this thread: How long do you think the online support for 4e will last?

# ¿ Jun 4, 2014 18:10

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Torquemadras posted:

Already decided that the jungle will contain a disease that opens a portal to another dimension in your stomach, so that you literally vomit forever

You have no idea how badly I want to steal/emptyquote this.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2014 16:59

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

thespaceinvader posted:

I know it's a while back, but this should basically be how you play D&D. Dungeon World too. Pretty much any TTRPG.

This exact question actually led me to improvising a kraken breaking through the middle of a ship after the planned encounter with pirates was completely stomped.

The fighter then climbed up its body and stabbed it in the eyes. Ended up the most memorable fight of that whole campaign.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 21:47

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Or just use the real Rule 0 of D&D 4e: Reskin everything. My last big boss fight had two level 5 elites. One was a leveled-down minotaur, the other was a beholder gauth with some damage types changed. Both were completely reskinned.

Gort posted:

It's incredible the number of times I've reskinned a dragon to something else.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 18:37

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Torquemadras posted:

Okay - I've got another question for y'all! Not that I want the thread to craft my campaign for me, you've just been very helpful so far.

thespaceinvader posted:

RESKIN EVERYTHING.

Pick a standard monster of the right level that you think would be fun, and reskin it.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2014 12:08

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Has anyone had any luck with, like, a series of Zelda-styled theme dungeons for a game? Most of my group seems to be about "mostly combat with some chances to roleplay in between", and that format seems pretty suitable for it, as well as giving me a lot of latitude for interesting encounter design. ("Why is the floor made of rotating and shifting tiles that screw with your initiative score and warp you around the battlefield? Because this is the Time dungeon, obviously!")

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 21:36

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I think the important thing is finding some way to get your Power Points back as an encounter power. Two good feats for it off the top of my head were Psyforged, and Psionic Vampire.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 04:49

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Arivia posted:

So I'm curious. I've heard that the fell taints from the mm2 are particularly dangerous or something for their level - I'm guessing it's incorporeal and the coup de grace power, maybe? Are there any other infamously overpowered/underpowered monsters beyond the mm3 math issue?

I don't know if it's "overpowered" so much as just "unfun", but any large-ish group of Ghouls (more than 2) is almost guaranteed to make at least one unlucky player have to sit and twiddle their thumbs while they continuously fail to roll their saves, at a level where they don't have many ways to shake or fix that. It's not so bad if the party has a lot of sources of Radiant damage, but otherwise... v :v:

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Aug 5, 2014

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 18:55

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I still love stealing those old modules and converting them. It's actually a pretty great way to set up a session on short notice.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 08:44

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Whybird posted:

Actually, a monster which turns to stone when bloodied, slowly regains HP, then comes right back at you would be pretty cool for a boss fight which pursues the party through a dungeon of setpiece fights before they find a way to turn its regeneration off.

Stealing that right now.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 00:20

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Torquemadras posted:

What prestige class is that? I only know of the Exemplar, which allows you to substitute any skill for a Diplomacy check. Meaning, you could turn people fanatical for you by making sweet backflips (Acrobatics), staring at them (Spot), vanishing from their view (Hide), squinting really hard (Concentration), making Jellybeans (Craft: Jellybeans) or, famously, jumping (see: the Jumplomancer build). Which is hilarious and all, but how do you do that for ANY skill besides Diplomacy?

Please tell me, I want to climb walls by smugly telling the wall I already did it (Bluff)

I don't think "Jumplomncer" is the most famous/infamous Exemplar build by a longshot. Escape Artist.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 17:59

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Yeah, I'm with them. Trying to balance encounters around exactly depleting everyone's surges without accidentally flattening someone is a fool's errand.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 16:37

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 10:31

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

ProfessorProf posted:

That or the paradox causes it to explode violently.

I like that one more.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 16:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition: Looks like we're the grognards, now.

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