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OwlBot 2000 posted:Fun fact: Seattle is the only major city of which I'm aware to have elected a radical Socialist to city council within recent memory. Moreso Libertarians and Mormons. There are a few people who are currently living in the state but I was born in Idaho and lived there for many years, and while people here may not consider it part of the PNW it is considered in some cases part of the region and it definitely does share cultural values with the Eastern two thirds of Washington & Oregon.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:39
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Telesphorus posted:
Oregon is ~78% non-Hispanic white as of 2012, which is not the highest in the US (Vermont is something like 94%). As for the right wing people they probably don't really care that much because they don't see them much. They might make noise about taxes or gay marriage or whatever but at the end of the day the vast majority of their community acts like them, and they're happy with it. e: For reference, Oregon's Congressional districts:  and the 2012 election results: 
computer parts fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 22:30
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The-Mole posted:Come to Oregon, discover the term, "hippier than thou." Or just watch Portlandia.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:00
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TheBalor posted:It's terrible, there are rampaging rape gangs and KKK marauders that haunt the nights. Cougars haunt the day. Stay far away. Note that hunting actually is fairly popular; my parents are currently looking for a place in Corvallis and this was in one of the prospective houses: 
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Mar 13, 2014 13:50
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Kaal posted:As a white person, I can tell you that institutional racism by the Oregon state gov't against blacks has been mild compared to its historical treatment of Native Americans (i.e. two lovely wars in the form of the Nez Perce War and the Snake War) and of women (women's suffrage was fought for hard and early by Oregonians) or the mentally ill (forced sterilizations by the Oregon Board of Eugenics) or of Asian-Americans (toleration of all sorts of mistreatment during the gold mining/railroad building era, culminating with the Japanese internment camp in Portland and a state-wide exclusion zone). I could easily go on. So if you want to talk about institutional racism then we should talk about that rather than a headline-grabbing law that was never enforced and lasted one year. Though arguably the reason those abuses are more prevalent is that they didn't scare away all of those races/groups like they did with black people.
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Mar 13, 2014 16:52
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Kaal posted:The Nez Perce War is constituted of the US Army literally forcing American Indians out of Oregon at gunpoint. Yes, and? Southerners did the same thing and then did worse to black people.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:02
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Kaal posted:I'm not sure that what's left of the Native American tribes would see it that way, but what's your point? We're not talking about the South. My point is that you have yet to show that Oregonians are totally not racist against black people. Remember, while Oregon is more diverse than (eg) New Hampshire, it's only 1.8% black. That's only 0.7% more than New Hampshire. By contrast somewhere like Michigan (a state which comparable non-Hispanic white numbers as Oregon) is 14% black.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:35
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Kaal posted:So you're saying that Oregonians are racist because there was slavery in the South? How does that make any sense? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. You made the assertion that Oregonians weren't racist against black people because their law forbidding slaves (and free blacks) was repealed after an insignificant amount of time and anyway there was much worse racial tension for other groups. My assertion was that the only reason there wasn't bad racial tension regarding black people is that there weren't and aren't many black people in Oregon, and if there were the same issues would show up. You responded that the US did terrible things to natives. I responded that the US did terrible things to natives everywhere, so that's not really a distinguishing factor. Then you decided to act completely oblivious to the original point, which was that Oregonians have not had experience in dealing with racial tensions regarding black people. quote:
My point is that just because you've dealt with racism regarding a given group it doesn't mean you're suddenly not racist for everyone.
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Mar 13, 2014 17:47
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glowing-fish posted:Does anyone have an opinion/insight into Washington-3 (Clark County and SW Washington) and Jaimie Herrera-Beutler? Apparently redistricting did make it slightly more conservative but it's also gone to the Republicans in all but one presidential election (2008) since 2000.
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Mar 16, 2014 20:57
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TheBalor posted:I have no idea why people hate high-density living. I lived in a series of sprawly towns in Oregon all my life, and following that Korea and Taiwan were like a breath of fresh air (figuratively, not literally. Yellow dust.) Literally dozens of shops within a single block, with entire commercial districts tucked away in alleyways. I know it's supposed to be ~soulless~, but I think a densely crowded cityscape feels more alive than a sterile procession of townhouses and chain stores. Because there's too many people. I am anticipating my trip to Beijing this summer but not because of the thousands of people I have to crowd with to use the subway (and that particular anecdote is from my girlfriend, who is Chinese and grew up with that sort of environment). Also you should hear my dad complain about how crowded Oregon is now, although when he was born there were only ~1.5 million people there.
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Apr 4, 2014 15:18
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FRINGE posted:Seattle drivers are worse, but I found the actual city/streets to be more frustrating in Portland. I think it's because Seattle had more time to build out. I was in Portland last summer to buy some hiking stuff and it definitely felt like it was more of a smaller town that had received a large influx of people. Looking at some statistics it looks like the population in Portland was more or less static (give or take 50k) from 1930-1980, and then it skyrockets. Meanwhile in Seattle the population started from about the same point (larger Metro area though) but lots of people start moving in more closer to 1940-1950.
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Apr 6, 2014 14:21
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99% of those costs are probably roads though which aren't exactly luxury items.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:20
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Kaal posted:Roads and schools and police stations and healthcare ... you know all the things that a community pays taxes for. It's not like bus service in Seattle servicing hundreds of thousands of people is any more of a luxury than a highway to Nowhere, WA that services a dozen houses. If country conservatives want to slash community services, they can certainly be asked to pay their own way. I guess the real issue lies in why a Seattle bus service is being voted on by the entire state. e: Actually is it being voted on by the entire state or is just the county doing it? If the latter, why do some bullshit about ~~rural types~~ if they're not even voting on it? computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 17:32
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Bucket Joneses posted:Do me a favor and look at the King County boundaries. Over 50% of it is rural bumfuck pine tree acreage. And yet in 2010 and 2012 they went D by 65-35. It's not exactly a swing county.
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Apr 24, 2014 18:38
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Bucket Joneses posted:I'm not making a left/right argument at all. It's not about that. What I'm talking about is the fact that the people who live out in Maple Valley (for instance) simply do not use KCM so they have no vested interest in voting for more taxes/fees to support it. And that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is pulling the old "Urban counties give more in taxes than they get therefore eat the rural population" is nonsensical because this vote is entirely within a single (relatively) urban county and a large number of the No votes are coming from non-rural locations.
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Apr 24, 2014 18:48
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Kaal posted:And how is asking for semi-equitable tax distribution "eating the rural population"? Is paying your own bills some kind of huge affront to democracy? It's not related at all to the topic of discussion.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:00
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Kaal posted:What, "Who is paying/receiving taxes" isn't related to the discussion of a transportation tax/funding initiative? That's absurd. I think that maybe Seattle wouldn't have to be constantly battling for funding if they weren't subsidizing the rest of the state; and I think that some of these anti-tax proposals would be a harder sell if their supporters knew it would jeopardize their handouts. Okay, you see this part? This is why it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. No one in Eastern Washington is proposing these. This is all in King County, a county that went for Democrats 65-35 for at least the past 10 years. If you want to blame someone, blame people from the suburbs of Seattle who voted against it.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:11
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Kaal posted:Try reading this map over and over and over and over: https://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/oranv.i2d1b9dd/page.html#10/47.1687/-121.7450 If your thick skull is unable to comprehend that I'm talking about the Seatac/Mercer/Bellevue/Redmond/Shoreline areas instead of the rest of the map, I don't know what else to say.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:22
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Kaal posted:I think that my thick skull is unable to comprehend what the hell you're trying to say because you're completely incomprehensible. Hey, you remember this post? Kaal posted:Try reading this map that was posted directly to you earlier: https://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/oranv.i2d1b9dd/page.html#10/47.1687/-121.7450 The post that was directly relating to this post? computer parts posted:Okay, you see this part? This is why it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. No one in Eastern Washington is proposing these. This is all in King County, a county that went for Democrats 65-35 for at least the past 10 years. I'll bring your attention to the bolded portion. I am saying, in clearest English: -The reason the proposition failed is assholes from Seattle suburbs. - The reason the proposition failed is not due to people in rural areas. - Whether or not people in rural counties get more in taxes than they take in is beside the point because they have nothing to do with this proposition. - Whether or not people in rural areas will "pay their own way*" would not make a difference in the outcome of the proposition because people in rural counties had nothing to do with the proposition. Is there anything else I can help you with? tl;dr (and I know you're only going to read/quote this line): Your points about making rural people pay more have nothing to do with this proposition. * Kaal posted:Roads and schools and police stations and healthcare ... you know all the things that a community pays taxes for. It's not like bus service in Seattle servicing hundreds of thousands of people is any more of a luxury than a highway to Nowhere, WA that services a dozen houses. If country conservatives want to slash community services, they can certainly be asked to pay their own way. No wonder they're willing to cut funding when their town is getting back more than $3 for every buck they pay in taxes.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:33
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Thanatosian posted:King County residents should really start pushing for a referendum that would force state general fund spending in each county to be within 5% of the general fund revenue collected from that county. King County's budget problems would be entirely over, and Ferry County would just have to find a way to trim some loving fat. See, the fallacy of this argument is assuming that the money spent outside of King County does not benefit it at all. Take it as a given that the vast majority of money spent in rural counties are roads. Do you really think that having roads is not significantly economically beneficial in general? Or take another example - Dams. The Grand Coulee Dam (one of the largest generators of hydroelectric power) is located within Grant County, which went 60-30 for Romney in 2012. I mean obviously that's a federal program but the same logic applies. e2: So people don't misinterpret: The point I'm trying to make is that using tax revenue solely as a basis of measuring where economic development should happen is a flawed measure because it doesn't take into account non-tax based methods of economic activity. computer parts fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 13:35
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Thanatosian posted:As you've pointed out, dams are generally federally-funded. And the roads of greatest benefit to King County that are outside of King County are the interstates, which are also federally funded. There's greatest benefit, and then there's significant economic benefit. A major part of Washington's economy is tourism related to natural wonders (parks, mountains, etc) and a lot of those are inaccessible by purely federal roads. (For example, Mt Rainier and Mt St Helens) quote:Western Washington needs to start doing something punitive to Eastern Washington, instead of rolling over and being a doormat for them, which is clearly not working. And yeah, some of those spending cuts would hurt us, too, but not anywhere near as much as it would hurt them, which is what is important. Yeah but this is a dumb idea that you're doing for no reason. Western Washington controls the state, the eastern side has about 1/3 of the population and the state legislature is controlled by Democrats so there's not even significant gerrymandering like in the South. If you're having any problems with the legislature it's because your Democratic party lacks cohesiveness, not because there's a disproportionate amount of influence by the Eastern 2/3rds (and really from what it looks like there's more than a few Republicans from the western third of the state).
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Apr 25, 2014 15:52
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Thanatosian posted:Unfortunately, there are actually Republicans in Western Washington; we keep trying to drive them into the sea, but the tunnel-digging keeps getting in the way. And in case you don't know anything about Washington State: the state House has a Democratic majority, but the Senate is controlled by Republicans. Given that we have a strong bicameral system, bills need to be passed by both houses of the Legislature in order to become law. It's only controlled by Republicans due to a coalition with Democrats. Another side point which should probably be noted is that many of the legislative districts that voted No on this transport proposition are still represented by Democrats, not Republicans. quote:And yes, the Democrats in the state Legislature are largely completely loving worthless, which would be the whole point of a referendum like that: it would force them to play loving hardball, instead of continually bringing a wiffle bat to a gun fight. See, the equivalent to that referendum is basically what happens in the EU - regions that are poor can't/don't get aid and regions that are rich gain a lot more, with little incentive for the latter to help the former (at least until poo poo hits the fan but that's usually a long way down the line). And again, the metric of "gives the state taxes therefore is beneficial" is flawed - there are plenty of activities that generate low/no taxes but are still beneficial to the people of a state or region. For example, if people in Western Washington/Seattle rely significantly on agriculture from Eastern Washington, then that's something that would mess with Western Washington if you cut the Eastern Washington road fund.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:01
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Thanatosian posted:
If you can't get your goods to market it doesn't mean poo poo. Maybe you'll shift to another food supplier but all that does is say "yeah you're right paying for roads to Eastern Washington actually did help Western Washington". quote:And what we're doing right now is nothing but the rich counties "helping" the poor counties. Yeah, and what I'm saying is that the opposite is not what you want.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:12
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Thanatosian posted:I'm not saying it wouldn't hurt Western Washington; it would just hurt Eastern Washington way, way, way more. And the benefits Western Washington (especially King County) would reap from it at the very least greatly mitigate the damage, and probably would more than make up for it. Yeah, and I'm saying you don't really want to do that unless you want to emulate the EU.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:37
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Thanatosian posted:Low poverty rates, cheap universal healthcare, and a belief that government and infrastructure are good? I'm in. Unless you happen to be in Greece.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:47
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Thanatosian posted:Last I checked, Greece wasn't trying to take healthcare or public transportation away from the other countries in the EU. No, but other parts of the EU are forcing them to "cut costs" because they don't generate enough tax revenue. This sounds familiar to something else I heard recently.
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Apr 25, 2014 18:55
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Thanatosian posted:I honestly don't give a poo poo about Eastern Washington's tax revenue generation; cutting state spending in counties until the revenue is equalized is just a more easily saleable way to punish them for voting for poo poo like I-695, every Tim Eyman initiative that shows up on the ballot, and fuckstains that won't let Western Washington localities establish their own taxes in order to provide services. It's not saleable at all though.
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Apr 25, 2014 19:03
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Thanatosian posted:Call it the "tax equalization initiative of 2014." Proclaim that it's the solution to all of your tax money constantly going to those welfare queens in Seattle. At the very least it will put some Republican legislators in a very uncomfortable position. Yeah and the only people that will benefit from it are the people who fundamentally disagree with the concept of welfare queens. I get that you're doing a "lol we'll just trick those dirty rural types into loving themselves" thing but it seriously wouldn't pass even if they were too dumb to realize what the ramifications of the law would be.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:23
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Mojo Threepwood posted:I visited Portland for the day and their downtown seems much more walkable than Seattle. I was impressed by the packed, clean streetcars that kept going by, especially how they weren't covered in ads for casinos or "WE BUY GOLD." Plus Powell's Books was fantastic as usual. Are there some serious downsides to Portland that I'm missing? Lack of a pro-football team ? Traffic was pretty poo poo the last time I went through there. It felt like the city was designed for about 2/3 of the amount of people it gets today.
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May 4, 2014 00:48
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Solkanar512 posted:Wait, the state Supreme Court can raise taxes? I'm guessing they're planning on voiding a tax cut.
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May 6, 2014 20:50
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seiferguy posted:If it weren't for the dampness and the rain, the PNW wouldn't be as green as it is. It's what makes hiking around the are so amazing. I've hiked in the rain-shadow (and farther east) and it's just as amazing.
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May 12, 2014 18:30
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glowing-fish posted:Are Microcities a speciality of Oregon and Washington? In the Portland metro, there is Maywood Park, Johnson City and Rivergrove, all with populations under 1000 people, and all surrounded by larger cities. Does this occur other places? Boise has Garden City, I don't think any other city in the state is large enough to really encompass another city within it though.
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May 19, 2014 22:45
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Solkanar512 posted:In other news, there's a ban on cultivating GMO on the ballot in Jackson County. Apparently they're really big on pears: http://www.co.jackson.or.us/Files/Agricultural_Lands.pdf
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May 20, 2014 21:28
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Xylorjax posted:That said, Eastern Washington isn't quite as empty as Eastern Oregon. A large part of that is the river which allows trade (Lewiston in Idaho is the furthest inland port in the US) and apparently there's a fair amount of fertile land. I've been in Eastern Oregon lots of times as a youth because it was between where I lived in Idaho and the coast, and it's a desert. A beautiful desert, but still a desert. That being said, I think Spokane wouldn't be a terrible place to live for what I'm used to (smallish college town that's kinda liberal), I just wish there was a more balanced tax system in Washington. computer parts fucked around with this message at 14:43 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 14:41
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Note that this doesn't count as a mass shooting because only two people died. In the official statistics anyway.
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Jun 10, 2014 18:30
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FRINGE posted:I have no current thoughts as to how to do this in a way that doesnt have drawbacks, but my thought is that this should be illegal. That would seem hard in places like San Francisco, at least minus rent control.
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Jun 12, 2014 23:42
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Reason posted:Can someone explain this to me, a couple years ago or so WA passed a law that said something to the effect of if you see flashing lights move over or slow down, what I thought this law did was make it so that if you saw flashing lights pulled over on the freeway you either change lanes or slow down a bit, like say 55 in a 60 if you can't get over. The idea was to make officers more safe during traffic stops. Is this what you're talking about? http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/docs/laws/emergency_zone_brochure.pdf It sounds like there's now a buffer zone so you can't legally be in that lane. e: Looking at it more it sounds like you can still be in the lane but it's more of a liability. computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jun 30, 2014 |
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Jun 30, 2014 17:17
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Magres posted:Corvallis is pretty great too, particularly for being a city of less than a hundred thousand. Flat Tail Brewery and Block 15 both brew their own (fantastic) beers and their selection changes on a regular basis. Flat Tail usually has like twenty different beers and most of them have been different every time I've been there (which is usually like once every couple months). Block 15 doesn't change theirs quite as often and I think they have a core of beers that don't change, but their beers are phenomenal (try the Figgy Pudding it's so goddamned good) and definitely change some over the course of the year. I'm in Corvallis right now helping a family member move and yeah beer culture is definitely really big here. I just wish it wasn't so hot, but I guess this is kind of historically high for the time of year (the house they're moving into doesn't have any AC). And yeah the main purpose of this thread is supposed to be political stuff so do that before it gets sent off to T&T like the last California thread. 
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Jul 7, 2014 22:22
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Vavrek posted:I really ought to watch those. Been meaning to for years; thank you for the reminder. Solar power also doesn't work regularly in many parts of the country.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:29
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anthonypants posted:Once Seattle falls to the Socialists, the grimdark cyberpunk dystopia can finally begin. Or maybe you can put an income tax in at least.
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Jul 25, 2014 01:32
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