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I love how people in these movements take any 'takedown' at total face value because something something CORPORATIONS MAN. Hyman is a total fraud, he literally talks about how autism is a symptom of other illnesses and how if autistic kids can 'detoxify' they'd be cured. He's the absolute worst huckster next to Doctor Oz or whoever else is the current tv doctor that tells fat people if they buy five bottles of his miracle pill they'll be set. I would literally trust a hobo on the street more than Hyman, but hey man he's on the HuffPo they don't let just ANYONE write there right?! Also wasn't there a thing a while back when most of HuffPo's 'medical' section was anti-vaxx hucksters? No relation of course!
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Mar 26, 2014 01:02
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Cache Cab posted:I understand that some kids might get sick and maybe even die due to a lack of herd immunity, but how many are having mental issues from unregulated substances we're injecting into them? There are lots of mysterious deaths in childhood that have no answer, and vaccines can't be ruled out. Asking me to choose between vaccinating my kids and having other kids die is like asking me to vote for Bush or Kerry. I simply won't (I vote Green Party). Well for one, no kid has had mental disorders from vaccines. For another there is no 'green party' here, the choice is vaccinate your kid or let them die/make other kids die, you have to pick one of those, there's no hidden third option that THE MAN is hiding from you, vaccines or your kid dies of fuckin whooping cough or whatever 19th century disease people like you are bringing back like you're the VH1 of medical crisis.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:34
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Solkanar512 posted:What sort of background and experience do you have in the biological or medical sciences? As a parent I...
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Mar 26, 2014 17:44
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Eej posted:I want to make sure this gets repeated. This isn't some internal familial thing, this is an issue of public health. If you turn the keys to your car when you are drunk, the worst case scenario isn't that you drive into a tree and die, it's that you plough into a van and take out half of a family. This is what gets me about his argument. Yea maybe vaccinating your kids will hurt your relationship, but you know what else will? If your kid is crippled for life because you didn't want to have a really hard talk, I'd put good money on that straining a relationship too.
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Mar 30, 2014 02:51
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Tomberforce posted:My town has one of the lowest vaccination rates in Australia, so much so that there is currently a public health campaign aimed specifically at 'alternative lifestyle' anti vaxxers. Of course they got vandalized by AVN idiots. AVN? What's the Angry Videogame Nerd have to do with this? Did they finally make a vaccine for lovely old Nintendo games?!
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Apr 4, 2014 17:12
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Solkanar512 posted:They've certainly done enough to undermine confidence in the first world. quote:Experts are particularly concerned that polio is re-emerging in countries previously free of the disease, such as Syria, Somalia and Iraq, where civil war or unrest now complicates efforts to contain the virus. It is happening during the traditionally low season for the spread of polio, leaving experts worried that cases could spike as the weather becomes warmer and wetter in the coming months across the northern hemisphere. The point is you have no idea what you posted. Polio never went away in a fair amount of the world, mainly in chunks of the world that either just had or are currently still having very violent, messy, civil wars. Civil wars cause breakdown in systems, in most of these areas the systems were already pretty garbage, so yea poo poo like Syria and all now has polio as a 'thing' in a bigger way. Or in Pakistan's case, a bunch of poorly educated people hear a story about a specific military thing and just kinda assume it's a massive thing and start kicking out doctors. You're basically reading a global report that's specifically talking about pretty much ruined nations and going "THANKS JENNY MCARTHY" in some crazy America focused knee jerk.
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May 5, 2014 21:24
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If I claimed a key part of my sect of Judaism involved throwing my poo poo out the window like ancient Israelis did, I would not get that upheld as protected since its a hazard to others. I have no legal or ethical issue telling people "God said no" is not a valid reason to be a public health risk.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:27
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Ogmius815 posted:Do you think there might be a distinction between "letting people choose not to have a specific medical procedure done to their children" and "banning abortion, preventing your employees from accessing contraceptives, and forbidding teachers to talk about safe sexual practices"? Yea you probably won't be a danger to others and their health if you don't get an abortion, so if anything this should be more important.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:30
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Ogmius815 posted:Once again guys, not forcing the tiny minority of people whose weird religion says they shouldn't get vaccinated isn't going to compromise herd immunity. I'd even say it's fine to force everyone else to get vaccinated, but unless there is actual substantial harm people have a right to practice their religion. And there is no harm, once again, because only a tiny minority of people are actual practitioners of these religions. gently caress em No for real, gently caress em. Why should we take even a tiny chance with such a critical aspect of public health? If you have a legit health reason of course you should be exempt but nah, believing in 18th century medicine because you think God hates progress and loves dead rear end babies, gently caress you.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:38
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Bel Shazar posted:Is there another example of something that our government has forced a minority of people to do to themselves for the benefit of the population? I'm sure there must be, but I'm failing to come up with anything. Stop owning people, pay workers in real money worth enough to eat dinner on, stop dumping factory waste in the water table.
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Jun 5, 2014 06:54
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Why does it matter?
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Jun 5, 2014 06:58
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Ogmius815 posted:Right. That is, again, why we should certainly require almost everyone to get vaccinated. However, people also have a right to practice their religions, regardless of how backwards you believe those religions are. We make exceptions to this when there is a clear harm to public health, but in this case there is not one, so we default to letting people practice their religion. They can practice their stupid cult, it won't mean we have to let them do literally anything they want. Again in my poo poo tossing example, I'm sure only a few other Jews will follow me to the poo poo flinging side, is it ok because we most likely won't poo poo more than the city can clean? At what point do we draw the line of accepting risks for public health for no good reason?
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Jun 5, 2014 07:22
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Pohl posted:Simply put, your religion can get hosed. Religion is not some hand waiving special topic that allows you to act stupid. Arguing that religion allows you or anyone to act stupid, only serves to demean that religion. Also, you can be a Christian Science person, that's real dumb but totes legal. You just can't kill your kid or my kid over it.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:33
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Ogmius815 posted:I don't know, but in a world where literally everyone except a tiny minority have to get vaccinated it seems like the risk is probably pretty small.If herd immunity can seriously be compromised by such a tiny fraction of people it was worthless anyway. And when Jenny McCarthy joins the CS movement and her brainless followers do the same? Is the government going to judge the validity of religious claims because that sounds ripe for far entertainers than your version. Also answer to the dudes who pointed out that we don't actually default to faith trumping law or whatever.
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Jun 5, 2014 07:57
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Ogmius815 posted:Well, like I suggested, you could do the same thing we used to do with COs and take measures to ensure that their beliefs are sincere. You know why herd immunity is necessary right? It's because not everyone that gets vaccinated becomes immune. If an extreme minority religion is going to tip the scales (it isn't) herd immunity never should have worked in the first place. People aren't going to change religions because they don't want to vaccinate their kids anyway because it turns out there's more to being a Christian Scientist than "hey don't vaccinate your kids". I think in this conversation you're the one who down at know poo poo about herd immunity.
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Jun 5, 2014 08:18
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Ogmius815 posted:Way more people will fail to be immune because the vaccine didn't make them immune or because they fell through the cracks than because of religion. So what add to that number needlessly?
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Jun 5, 2014 08:20
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Ogmius815 posted:The failure rate of the measles vaccine is at least two per cent and may be as high as ten per cent. In the recent outbreaks of measles almost half of the affected people had been vaccinated. So yeah, if less than 100,000 Christian scientists and whatever portion of the Jehovah witnesses decide to abstain are going to compromise her immunity, chances are it was already compromised. So you end up with a needless violation of religious liberty. I know that's fine with you because you're a goony goon goon who hates religion, but that's not how this country works. I'm a fuckin Jew you mouth breather this isn't some dumb internet atheist thing this is a 'this thing literally puts kids in danger without their consent because you think something stupid' thing.
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Jun 5, 2014 15:23
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Bel Shazar posted:Denying food to your child causes death. Denying a vaccine to your child is not sufficient to cause your child's death. I legit need to ask, what do you think we vaccinate kids for? Not like, what diseases, but WHY do you think we do it?
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Jun 6, 2014 02:50
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Caros posted:Yeah. A chink is like a ding or a notch. It's not a racist thing in the context it is being used, but a bunch of sports writers got in poo poo saying it that way a while back while discussing that really tall Chinese bball player who's name escapes me. Well to be fair the optics of a big picture of a Chinese dude with "CHINK IN THE ARMOR?" under it aren't awesome. But yea I've heard kink in the armor too, not sure if it's self censorship or what but it's a valid phrase.
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Jun 28, 2014 03:05
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So what do you do to fix the problem, and nothing else at all with your time because I assume like any moral person by your standards your life is dedicated to that task, oh enlightened sage?
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Jun 28, 2014 03:49
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Not the same at all actually.
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Jun 28, 2014 06:49
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E-Tank posted:Congrats, you're parroting speaking points from Autism Speaks. gently caress them for allowing people to speak about their experiences that contradict my views. Silence them, silence them now! Am I missing where they called for MANDATORY 'curing' and poo poo? It sounds like you're angry at a group who wants to find treatments for a legit pretty terrible mental issue that many would like to see cured. Are they demanding we round up autistics and put them in cure camps or something?
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Jun 28, 2014 14:43
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Sorry ma'am you can't have this abortion, this child may have autism. That has a nice ring to it, I can see that being the next pro-life move, good job pro women's rights posters.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:29
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Also seriously who's advocating for MANDATORY abortions, this is literally you saying it shouldn't be a choice women have at all vs someone saying yea they probably have the right to decide if they want to have a baby regardless of if it has a disease or not. Yea if there's someone saying we HAVE TO abort every autistic kid that's hosed up but last I checked that wasn't the issue at all?
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Jun 28, 2014 18:31
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Cranappleberry posted:That's the way I construed the first line. I could be wrong which is why I asked outright instead of dancing with euphemisms for 97 pages. I think his primary issue was with the 'abortion is murder' line which just plays into the pro life bullshit because then you're basically saying that everything they're saying is right, it's just murder we're ok with doing or whatever. Regardless, who gives a poo poo what he says, why are people using what SA poster rkajdi says as if it reflects on groups like Autism Speaks?
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Jun 28, 2014 18:35
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SedanChair posted:I don't think even Autism Speaks is suggesting mandatory abortions. But if all a mother knew was their propaganda, she might be inclined to think "oh god autism? My marriage will be ruined, get it out of me." I don't agree with every thing they've done, I think "I am Autism" was a stupid thing, but most of AS' deal is telling actual stories from actual people who have dealt with this stuff. Calling that propaganda feels very disingenuous. It's wrong to make it sound like it's the only outcome, but I don't feel they're in the wrong giving voice to people who actually have had their lives hurt by a mental illness that can be devastating. Again, no one is talking mandatory things. If you're a high functioning autistic who has no desire to be treated, rock on, live your life, but the flipside of that is that damning people for spending money on research is telling someone who has a child who can't even function in life who would want their child treated 'nah you fuckin live with that forever, and if you have any problems with that you're literally advocating genocide'.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:49
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SedanChair posted:Just no autistic people. Hm yes why didn't they have the child that the mother was talking about spends all day silently staring at things and screams when you look at him too long give his side of things, excellent point. Like, poo poo dude you know AS is about the people suffering from the bad poo poo right? I'm sure you can find plenty of internet aspies to talk about how they're actually superior to us 'neurotypicals' and that's fuckin cool for them, they can do that forever, but this really isn't about them is it because they don't 'need' treatment and poo poo.
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Jun 28, 2014 19:08
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Icon Of Sin posted:As an aside, why do people in the military get the smallpox vaccine if it was eradicated in the late 70s? I've got the little dime-sized scar from the vaccine (deployed to Afghanistan in late 2011) and wonder why they do it if the disease isn't in circulation in any population on this planet. Did we/the Russians/anyone else have a stock of it somewhere they couldn't account for at some point? Because poo poo happens and 'confirmed case' doesn't mean literally only. The disease is FUNCTIONALLY wiped out, but if you're in Afghanistan and some random dude who's never been to a doctor in his life and lives a bit aways from town gets you sick that's not great.
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Jun 30, 2014 02:42
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Ogmius815 posted:ITT I argue with Victor Frankenstein. Like, your arguments boil down to "BUT SMALLPOX SCARES ME" and now calling people Frankenstein.
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Jul 10, 2014 02:54
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Ogmius815 posted:Maybe if I blindly defend dangerous scientific research that doesn't seem to serve a useful purpose Niel Degrasse Tyson will finally notice me and invite me to his house and we'll be best friends forever! Again there are tons of breakthroughs that happen through science that 'doesn't seem to serve a useful purpose' and destroying every bit of smallpox means we will literally never have the chance to study/test it ever again. Are you a loving psychic who knows that suddenly in the future we'll have literally no use ever for it?
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Jul 10, 2014 03:06
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Yea reminder that the joke 'chiropractors aren't doctors' isn't some snooty elitism thing, it's a literal fact that they don't have to have anything but laughably pathetic 'schooling' that can in most areas be done on a weekend seminar. The only decent ones are basically overpriced massage therapists, which is fine as its own thing if you like paying ten times as much for a massage treatment, but the bad ones are the ones who can literally break your back with their lack of education.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:06
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I'm a big fan of the plan to reduce risk to kids saying 'yea a few kids have to be the canary in the coal mine and get fuckin polio so I know to protect my precious little Skye.'
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Oct 11, 2014 18:38
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I have a good friend about to have her first child who almost got suckered into this poo poo. She's a sweet person but she's kinda naive about poo poo so I guess she got linked some poo poo or whatever and started doing a bunch of facebook 'wow guys did you hear about this girl who got a shot and can only walk backwards now...' kinda poo poo. She wasn't explicitly anti-vax but she was for sure drifting to 'well we just don't know what these things do' stuff, and of course had other friends talking to her about DID YOU KNOW MERCURY IS IN THERE AND BABIES SCREAM AND CRY WHEN THEY GET SHOTS BECAUSE THEY KNOW. Thankfully she had many more friends going 'what, no, medicine is probably a good thing to give your baby.'
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Jan 26, 2015 16:17
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That kid's gonna grow up thinking spreadsheets are toys, that's a hosed up thing to do to a kid.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:14
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The biggest growing chunk of the movement isn't actually 'crunchy', it's moderately educated parents who think because they went to a little college they know better or whatever the gently caress.
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Feb 3, 2015 17:56
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Chocolate Teapot posted:I still don't buy this idea of an anti-vaccination stance being "both sides of the political spectrum". I mean, this is an epidemic that is mostly evident in the US, a country with absolutely no mainstream leftist representation or any strong history of active leftist representation; the "liberals" are further to the right than pretty much all European rightwing political groups (with obvious exceptions made for fringe extreme rightwing groups like Neo Nazis and the like), and there's not ever been any kind of socialist healthcare model which may have drastically altered the formation of opinions on vaccines in general. And I say all this in spite of Andrew Wakefield being British, who in poisoning the well with regards to the combined MMR vaccine only set out to do so in order to sell his own vaccines. You can 'not buy' all you want but I literally had a couple at a socialist party meeting I went to proudly tell me that their baby is due any day now and they're so happy they got 'woken up' about what's in vaccines and they'll be sure to tell everyone in their parenting groups and all. It's both sides, it hits to the anti-authority libertarian stuff on the right and it hits to the green movement and 'big pharma' types on the left.
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Feb 3, 2015 19:56
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I wish my immune system fought off my migraines and ADD better too, Bill.
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Apr 15, 2015 05:09
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GreyPowerVan posted:Why does he have to have so many lovely ideas intertwined with his good ideas Because he's a legitimately really stupid person who coasts on saying objectively true things like 'maybe oppressing the lower class is...hosed UP???' and having smarter people on his show go 'yes Bill very good point'
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Apr 15, 2015 05:12
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