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This is a nation where reporters were earnestly debating the possibility that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 flew into a black hole. Science shouldn't be left up to us.
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Mar 25, 2014 22:59
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:2) They immediately trust data from amateur-hour naturopathy sites, which inevitably begin their argument not by advancing any evidence of their own methodology, but by attacking the sources their audience is already suspicious of. These attacks involve logic gymnastics, like using a government agency's data (even though government data is evil) to assert facts or theories that aren't at all supported by said data. I've observed this as well, and for me it really drives home that most people's conception of medicine is utterly pre-scientific. I'm almost afraid to google "naturopathy humorism" because I'm afraid of discovering one or both of two things: 1) alternative medicine practitioners have re-examined the literature of humorism and declared it to be valid 2) alternative medicine practitioners have, through blogging and forum posting, spontaneously re-discovered humorism
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Mar 26, 2014 01:28
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duck monster posted:edit: Oh and one of the local "naturopaths" decided everyone should get vaccinated because the theory of vaccination is very similar to the theory of homeopathy. That one caught me by surprise, because it is actually sort of kind of true. So if you have any homeopathy loving friends who are also into vaccination, point out the irony of being opposed to a proven medicine that prevents the big danger by exposing the body to a massively diluted fragment of it, whilst approving the unproven medicine that supposedly prevents the big danger by exposing the body to a massively diluted fragment of it. No I refuse. Anybody this persuades should be dead  Captain_Maclaine posted:~*vaccine injured*~.* I'm about to plotz. You know, this is all just the same sort of bourgeois guilt and paranoia that have always accompanied psychosocial diagnoses. First it was Bruno Bettelheim's "refrigerator moms" that caused autism, then it was thimerosal, then all vaccines. It can't just be that people turn out different from one another and psychologists put a name on it, no. An evil god must have done it. Somebody put a root on me. It was doctors.
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Mar 26, 2014 03:30
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rkajdi posted:You might want to check on that. We've been allowing Christian Scientists to kill their children over BS religious rules for awhile now. The US in particular seems more than willing to kill children because of their parent's outmoded thoughts, which is somewhat ironic considering how regressively anti-abortion we tend to be. God's choir needed another angel 
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Mar 26, 2014 17:45
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CottonWolf posted:Obviously, the whole autism thing is bunk, but the logic the anti-vaxxers use on it is at least sound. That's not logic though. These diseases are very real and their transmission vectors are known. This is in contrast to the unproven (honestly I would say disproven) link between vaccines and autism.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:48
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CottonWolf posted:It's based on faulty premises, sure. But it does make sense. Beliefs based on faulty premises don't get to make sense.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:20
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Paul MaudDib posted:Most of the symptoms referenced are clearly aligned with autism spectrum disorders (poor communication skills, behavioral problems, etc), even though they don't actually use the word "autism" (they use "neurodevelopment disorder" instead). Yes, and making the connection between measurable neurological differences and autism is where autism research usually shits the bed, frankly.
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Mar 27, 2014 05:01
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Antivaxxers are pretty robust in the UK and Europe though. I mean Wakefield is British. There's a lot more to this than the failure of the American health care system.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:32
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PT6A posted:How can such an utter moron have made so much money? Starting with more.
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Mar 28, 2014 21:28
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quote:"The child's right to health is more than the rights of parents to the (wrong) choice," the court wrote in its ruling. 
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Mar 28, 2014 22:29
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I think it was Randi maybe? I think I read "woo-woo" in one of his books.Maluco Marinero posted:Edit: and to be clear, I don't think I'm on some sort of moral high ground here, but it is naive in the least to say that this is a decision that doesn't have the potential to completely change my family's life for the worse. Calling me a baby murderer is not going to effectively nullify that fact. Dude there is no question here, vaccination is a bedrock principle of being in modern society. You don't let your spouse beat your kids because it's like, too tough to break it to her that it's wrong. Well this is worse.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:15
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Maluco Marinero posted:We're a lot more stable financially these days, and my work life balance is a lot better, I think the relationship can bear it so I just have to suck it up and make it happen. See this is weird to me. How is the health of your kids not more important than your relationship? You should have done it back when it would have hosed up your relationship. You're lucky you made it till now without your kids getting sick. e: I know people aren't robots, I just don't see how this is any different from the standard excuses I hear from parents about why they abuse or neglect their kids. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Mar 30, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 23:55
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What a loving dirtbag.
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Mar 30, 2014 16:50
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When pressed they'll admit that abstinence may not be as effective in reducing all these arbitrary things you're throwing at them like "pregnancy" and "STDs" but it is the only method that punishes sex with sores, poverty and death! Maybe that's for the best! *worships a flayed god totem*
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Mar 30, 2014 17:58
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 THE BAD REVIEWS ALL SOUND THE SAME LOL smh.
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Apr 3, 2014 14:16
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MisterBadIdea posted:If you truly believed that you were saving your child from horrible illness, I don't think your kid's lack of social life would do much to change your mind. Nope but just like reporting every other form of abuse and neglect it helps to establish a pattern that makes it easier for the courts to make the right determination.
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Apr 7, 2014 20:25
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No surprise in these sorts of conditions: Our isolated lifestyles probably help to limit the effect of unvaccinated people.
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Apr 11, 2014 06:24
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VitalSigns posted:I don't understand how this isn't considered a war crime. Isn't there something in the Geneva convention about appropriating the trappings of humanitarian organizations as a cover for military or espionage activities? War crimes are for people dude, not governments. If it's policy (and you haven't lost a war and surrendered), war crimes are called "The Way It Is by Bruce Hornsby and The Range."
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May 6, 2014 02:04
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 Jesus. I knew they were a bunch of ignorant self-absorbed assholes but Jesus Christ.
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Jun 28, 2014 06:31
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I don't know, this sounds like the start of an interesting thread. What is the line between reproductive choice and eugenics?
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Jun 28, 2014 12:45
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I believe that in the case of Autism Speaks, we're not talking about autistic people "not wanting to be cured." We're talking about them not wanting to have been screened out and aborted before they came into existence.
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Jun 28, 2014 17:05
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rkajdi posted:But then they don't exist. What is the big deal? Nobody was killed, and nobody's bodily autonomy was removed. You're playing into the anti-choicer's meme of "abortion=murder" at this point. We don't say birth control pills kill thousands of people by making them not exist-- or rather those of us who aren't the American Taliban don't do so. So is sex-selective abortion completely unproblematic, because parents have the choice to do it?
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Jun 28, 2014 17:43
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smilingfish posted:Since vaccines obviously have nothing to do with autism, maybe having a debate about aborting autistic kids is a bit of derail for this thread. Relax. There's no argument to be had about any negative effects of vaccination, so all that's left is to explore the nature of narcissistic parents obsessed with having flawless children.
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Jun 28, 2014 17:49
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rkajdi posted:Yes. Or rather if the woman doesn't have an issue with it. Since it is fully a woman's choice, she gets to choose what kind of child she's going to have to extent possible. The man gets no vote. It doesn't really work that way in practice though, does it? Like in China I'm sure the dude gets a say, and hey presto there are millions fewer women.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:05
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Hell I don't know. In the case of autism, I do think it's problematic to see the eradication of people on the autism spectrum as a solution. I agree with a lot of E-Tank's criticisms of Autism Speaks.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:12
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rkajdi posted:Do you feel the same way about Tay-Sachs or other genetic diseases? Note that lots of the prvention here involves standard birth control or steralization methods. Is that just as wrong, and if not, aren't you implicitly agreeing with the anti-choice position? You're making everything into a choice issue and it doesn't need to be. Autistic people have brains that in many cases provide a benefit to society. They lead full lives with laughter and enjoyment, like everyone else. I don't see why everyone on the autism spectrum should be seen as having a disease that makes life not worth living. Or even as necessarily having a disease.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:29
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I don't think even Autism Speaks is suggesting mandatory abortions. But if all a mother knew was their propaganda, she might be inclined to think "oh god autism? My marriage will be ruined, get it out of me."
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Jun 28, 2014 18:36
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I don't agree with every thing they've done, I think "I am Autism" was a stupid thing, but most of AS' deal is telling actual stories from actual people who have dealt with this stuff. Just no autistic people.
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Jun 28, 2014 18:57
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Ytlaya posted:Maybe when they got the "vaccination" it was actually an injection of plutonium by a naturopath doctor! Homeopathic plutonium: the longer it decays, the more effective it becomes.
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Jul 4, 2014 08:43
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E-Tank posted:I was desperate, but not desperate enough to visit an acupuncturist. When our bodies evolve to needing a needle shoved into our skin and nerves in order to heal, we need to stop, turn civilization off, and go back to the primordial ooze to think about where we went wrong. Is the same true if we need surgery or chemotherapy in order to heal? I'm not arguing that acupuncture is valid, but you seem to be arguing that procedures of any kind are unnecessary.
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Jul 12, 2014 10:03
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Oh my god the bomb, this is the result of scientists running amok. Not a massive security state and military-industrial complex, somebody let the white coats run wild and now look, nukes.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:44
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OGMIUS' IDIOTIC ARGUMENT begins to shudder and clank, throwing off bolts and pieces of scrap metal. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief. The huge, ramshackle apparatus crashes to the ground with a massive, echoing "I'll concede I don't know enough to say either way." EVERYONE: Whew. gently caress! Just then, the entry hatch of OGMIUS' IDIOTIC ARGUMENT stirs and pops open. To everyone's horror, the squelching, organic form of OGMIUS' META-ARGUMENT lurches out and spreads its membranous, veined wings. OGMIUS' META-ARGUMENT: [flies into air, hissing] You think you've defeated meeeeeeeeee!?
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Jul 13, 2014 04:28
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Ogmius815 posted:that rubbed me the wrong way. We know, but that's not a reason for failing to concede.
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Jul 13, 2014 04:42
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Ogmius815 posted:Most science shouldn't be held to a usefulness standard. But research on dangerous pathogens should. Did you watch Outbreak when you were too young or something? Why are pathogens different than anything else in science? Why this special standard just for DUN DUN DUNNNNN PATHOGENS?
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Jul 13, 2014 04:49
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Ogmius815 posted:Because there has to be an expected reward large enough to outweigh any potential risk. Again WHY some special standard of reward for pathogens and not anything else? Wait let me skip ahead a bit: Ogmius815 posted:I don't like to lose arguments on the internet okay guys? Sorry.
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Jul 13, 2014 04:51
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OK, but you've been shown how it's not particularly dangerous.Ogmius815 posted:I've linked you to cases where lab accidents have occurred. This is a matter of public record. Are you really going with the fishmech "there is literally zero risk" thing? No I think we're all pretty much going with the "  an ape stumbled into the courtyard, lets throw sticks at it and watch it scream" right now
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Jul 13, 2014 04:53
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Ogmius you're literally a court fop in the time before circumnavigation. "Ahahaha should not my lord be expected to prove that there shall be some reward, such to balance against the terrible dangers of serpents which goe beneath the waves, and of the end of the seas, which border the land and are flat like a table?"
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Jul 13, 2014 05:00
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"Wee shall surely anger these serpents, who may not stop at destroying my lord's own ships for the crime of hubris, but may follow the trail of seaborne debris back to our very shores, and clime onto the beaches spitting fyre." *poops into a bowl*
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Jul 13, 2014 05:03
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He already furnished an answer:Ogmius815 posted:I didn't see any clear benefits explained until E-tank's post like an hour ago. I tried to ignore that for a few minutes because I don't like to lose arguments on the internet okay guys? Sorry.
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Jul 14, 2014 19:47
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quote:The old control methods like, "Wait till your father gets home," have no affect on these children. This nuclear option is rendered completely ineffective by INDIGO CHILDREN!
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Oct 2, 2014 14:18
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