The Anti-vaccination movement!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Anti-vaccination movement!

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

enbot posted:

Of course it's horrible if it happens to you, but 20 deaths a year is 0.002777777% of the children born per year in Britain. There are numerous diseases and accidental deaths that claim far more lives. Deaths that can be prevented by vaccines are of course completely unnecessary, and we should continue to educate people, but the real reason these movements exist is because the diseases/ conditions people (incorrectly) fear from the vaccines are orders of magnitude more likely than conditions caused by a lack of vaccination.

Part of the reason why that number is so low is because of herd immunity. When few people can get a disease, it can't really spread, and so few people die from it. The fact that people don't think that there's any serious danger from easily preventable diseases is because it's remarkably hard to get them because so many people are immune. If anti-vaxxers get their way those statistics will just go up.

Of course typing 'herd immunity' into Google gets me 'herd immunity myth' and 'herd immunity debunked.' Awesome job anti-vaxxers, go gently caress yourselves!

# ¿ Mar 26, 2014 04:41

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 21:58

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Cache Cab posted:

The issue for me is the level of toxic substances they put in the vaccines. I only shop at organic co-ops, store everything in glass bottles instead of plastic, and don't allow any unnatural cleaning products into my house, so why would I pump my kids full of inorganic substances?

The main problem is that these chemicals don't have a long track record. Every few years we learn that something was bad, and they've made a "better" vaccine.

I understand that some kids might get sick and maybe even die due to a lack of herd immunity, but how many are having mental issues from unregulated substances we're injecting into them? There are lots of mysterious deaths in childhood that have no answer, and vaccines can't be ruled out. Asking me to choose between vaccinating my kids and having other kids die is like asking me to vote for Bush or Kerry. I simply won't (I vote Green Party).

I think there is a large market out there for organic vaccines. I would definitely give my kids something to help them fight infections and diseases, but I will not do so until I am 100% sure it's safe. Can't somebody make vaccines fresh, without the need for preservatives? Even if they're ten times as expensive I'd use them. I want my kids to be safe, but right now neither option is going to achieve that.

If my options are "inject my kids with proven-to-work vaccines" or "let them get terrible, easily preventable illnesses," the option to take is "inject my kids with proven-to-work vaccines." The mechanisms via which vaccines work are well-understood; you might not like the fact that scary chemicals are in there, but trace amounts aren't problems when they're in all kinds of other things we consume in larger quantities all the time.

Think about the gamble you're making based on your beliefs, too. You believe something false (that vaccines cause mental disorders), but you think that avoiding, say, autism (which, again, vaccines don't cause) is more important than preventing easily preventable illness. That strikes me as insane: I'd rather be autistic than catch polio or measles. And there's this: childhood mortality rates have been dropping in the western world for a long-rear end time now, and since we're vaccinating more and more, if vaccines were a 'mysterious cause' of death, we'd not see the drop in childhood mortality rates, but rather an increase.

Come on, use your brain and vaccinate your kids.

Also, nothing is 100% safe. That's a pipe dream.

Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Mar 26, 2014

# ¿ Mar 26, 2014 16:47

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Paul MaudDib posted:

This would be a good counter-argument if all diseases that we vaccinated against were horrible, awful diseases, but then you've got stuff like chicken pox. Chicken pox is very rarely fatal, it's just uncomfortable as hell for a week. That is, as long as you get chicken pox when you're relatively young, because it can really wreck you if you get it while you're an adult (75% of deaths are in adults, versus <10% of the cases). And the vaccines for this aren't permanent, they're just good for a decade or so, so the only thing you're doing is pushing the disease off until a time when it's roughly 10x as lethal.

Vaccines are great for the lethal stuff, but they are medical treatment and do carry risks, and it's really unnecessary to take those risks for something as minor as chicken pox (unless there's some other risk factor that might make it worse for you). Sometimes just sucking it up and dealing with itchy blisters for a week is really the best course of action.

What's the problem with chicken pox vaccine? It's an annoying disease to kids, devastating to adults, and there's no reason to not get the vaccine now that it's available. Sure, it's not deadly but there's no downside, unless you think not getting chicken pox is bad. It's been a long time since I had chicken pox (pre-vaccine), but I remember it sucking pretty badly and I just don't know why we should really protest vaccinating kids against it. Is there some reason you're against the chicken pox vaccine?

Herd immunity is, again, a real thing, and vaccines don't just protect your kid, but everyone.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2014 19:16

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

CommieGIR posted:

Ummmm...its not a myth...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Read his next paragraph.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2014 19:37

Ghost of Reagan Past: Oct 7, 2003; rock and roll fun

Furnaceface posted:

I dont know what its like where you live, but here in Ontario all I had to do was head to the local health unit office for my vaccination history. Took 20 minutes for them to pull up and print off my whole history, no charge.

I had to call my high school for my vaccination records once.

A decade after graduation.

They still had it, miraculously enough.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2015 21:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Anti-vaccination movement!