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I'm 25. I've been playing in rock bands since I was 15. I today found out that my hearing cuts out at around 11KHz. The average 25 year old can hear up to around 19KHz. I'm told my hearing is comparable to the average 65 year old. I also have tinnitus in my right ear. My tinnitus manifests as a constant, 24/7 ringing noise in my ear. It's low enough that I only hear it when I'm trying to fall asleep, but it can drive me nuts sometimes. I will never hear quiet again. The point of my sob story is to try to get you, dear reader, to use ear protection. Rock bands are loud, too loud for the human ear to handle regularly. When I started out in my teens, I thought I was invincible, like every other teen, and besides, "ear plugs aren't loving rock and roll, dude". I was wrong. You can get really great ear plugs for 10 bucks. These things will minimally affect the sound of the music you're hearing whilst protecting your ear holes. Ten bucks is a small price for your hearing. Please don't be a moron like I was. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 00:40
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I've never really gone to live shows and if I am using headphones I never listen to it loud enough for it to hurt, or if it did hurt I'd immediately turn it down. I do have partial tinnitus but I think it's stress related. Hopefully I'm not too hosed. I want to keep my hearing.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:43
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Can't agree with this enough. I have a pair of Etymotic in-ear plugs that reduce by 24dB with high quality. The little keychain carrying case that comes with them can fit an additional pair of -36dB foam plugs that reduce less evenly at different frequencies, for when I want to fight my way to the front of a Bassnectar show or something, and not go deaf while the speakers blow my clothing out behind me like a bunch of flags. I've successfully gotten almost all of my friends to wear them also. I never listen to live music without earplugs, unless it's outdoors and I'm pretty far away. Edit: I'm almost 35. I can hear 16kHz easily, and 17kHz on a good day. You can check your high-frequency hearing with the test tones here: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2010/05/10/dont-you-hear-that/ ejstheman fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 01:24
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^ Keep in mind that sample rate conversion, lovely sound cards and speakers might make these otherwise audible tones inaudible, so double-check before freaking out that you can't hear over 16k or whatever ^ While we're talking about earplugs, I've got tickets for some rock festivals that are known to be REALLY loving LOUD, and last time I went, the Alpine Musicsafes just weren't enough, poo poo was still painful to my admittedly very sensitive ears. Anyone know any good earplugs that are rock ready?
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Mar 26, 2014 14:06
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Absolute best advice on ML. Wouldn't be a bad idea to post it in NMD, either.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:24
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I think the answer would be obvious but do techno/electronic music shows have a different affect on hearing loss than rock shows since the lower frequencies are more present? Although I feel like loud is loud and either way it's bad but am curious. Please feel free to make fun of me for how dumb this question is.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:34
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This may seem like overkill to many of you, but from my experience as a competitive handgun shooter it's absolutely worth doubling up ear protection! Use foamies to ensure baseline protection and then some active ear protection over that. Howard Leight Impact Sport headphones (http://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight...ht+impact+sport) are brilliant and CHEAP. With the foamies in, turn up the active phones until things are a comfortable volume level. The phones will compress the volume down so that you can (seriously) hear crickets chirp from meters away while loud noises like drums or shotgun blasts get cut down immensely. This is by far the best way to protect your hearing while maintaining enough awareness to hear and respond to people around you. There is also an aux in jack on the phones that you could use as a personal monitor. Don't gently caress around with your hearing! If someone calls you a dork for covering yo' ears, whisper to them about the filthy things you're going to do to their loved ones while they can't hear you because of the *HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm* net work error posted:I think the answer would be obvious but do techno/electronic music shows have a different affect on hearing loss than rock shows since the lower frequencies are more present? Although I feel like loud is loud and either way it's bad but am curious. Please feel free to make fun of me for how dumb this question is. The overall sound pressure levels are the dominant factor in noise-induced hearing loss. It's important to look at unweighted SPL, as you can potentially damage hearing from exposure to sound levels that you might not even be able to hear. That is to say, even if you can't hear 20 kHz (or 30 Hz), you can potentially damage your hearing from excessive SPL at that high (or low) a frequency. Hearing loss always manifests in damage in the ability to hear higher frequencies, however. Steak Flavored Gum fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 20:34
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I count myself lucky after years of playing in a band in Highschool and NEVER wearing earplugs. No tinnitus yet, and hopefully I don't catch hearing AIDS like all those old folk.
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Mar 26, 2014 21:35
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Steak Flavored Gum posted:This may seem like overkill to many of you, but from my experience as a competitive handgun shooter it's absolutely worth doubling up ear protection! Use foamies to ensure baseline protection and then some active ear protection over that. I've seen a lot of front-row security guys (who are closer to the speakers than any audience member, presumably every day) doing exactly this. They're wearing headsets with huge closed cans and a weird looking microphone, and a fat cable connecting it to their radio. I assume the headset has a bunch of next-level noise-canceling poo poo in it, in order not to be hilariously useless and/or an OSHA violation. Sometimes when they leave the stage area, you see them take off their headset, take out earplugs, and put the headset back on.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:38
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Geisladisk posted:You can get really great ear plugs for 10 bucks. These things will minimally affect the sound of the music you're hearing whilst protecting your ear holes. Ten bucks is a small price for your hearing. +1 on these ear plugs. I've used them for every show I've gone to in my life and they make music sound amazing. All the punch in the chest of a live show but without the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE afterwards. Buy them for everyone you love.
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Mar 28, 2014 04:01
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I had some tinnitus issues earlier in life, and got uber-cautious about hearing stuff ever since. Since then I've worked jobs in loud sports arenas, gone to lots of live rocks shows, done a lot of recreational shooting including spending hours a week at an indoor range as an instructor, years in the military including working in artillery. I've worn foam earplugs for all rock/sports events, doubled-protection for shooting events, and for military stuff worn mil-issue flanged earplugs for anytime it was feasible (yes on the artillery gun-line, and when a passenger in helicopters, but unfortunately not for traveling in armored vehicles). Despite overall guidelines to do so, you routinely see guys working artillery who refuse to wear earplugs: Despite all the above crap, I've managed to make it into my mid-30s with hearing that still checks out in the "no problems" range at every physical, with minimal sporadic ringing maybe once every few months. So I count myself an ear-pro success story, and have zero regrets, particularly since it's barely been a dozen times in all those years that I've gotten "wtf, why are you wearing earplugs at a punk show?"
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Mar 30, 2014 17:43
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Hearing loss is so punk.
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Mar 30, 2014 19:35
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Steak Flavored Gum posted:Hearing loss is so punk. Gets it.
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Mar 31, 2014 02:41
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Why the gently caress would any artillerist not wear ear protection? How the gently caress do they get away with that without someone chewing them out? Isn't being able to hear fire orders kind of... important?
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Mar 31, 2014 08:31
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net work error posted:I think the answer would be obvious but do techno/electronic music shows have a different affect on hearing loss than rock shows since the lower frequencies are more present? Although I feel like loud is loud and either way it's bad but am curious. Please feel free to make fun of me for how dumb this question is. Your ears are pretty happy with lots of bass even at pretty high levels (to a certain point) because the wavelengths are loving huge and the sound just goes through you. Treble will gently caress your hearing in short order though. That and really poorly tuned sound systems (which are pretty much everywhere). I have a horn loaded PA kit which runs with minimal distortion VERY loudly, it measures 120db when cranked which is seriously loud, like 747 at take off from 50ft away loud yet because there's such low distortion it doesn't sound particularly vicious despite it vibrating the poo poo out of your chest. I can go out to various clubs in town and wake up the next day with my ears ringing, when I run my kit I wake up and I'm fine. Quality of sound is as much a problem as quantity of sound but there's no way to measure distortion, just assume that your DJ is redlining the Pioneer mixer which sounds like utter poo poo and is adding to your pain.
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Mar 31, 2014 16:47
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There's a famous story about EVH mastering an album for the first time and turning in something that was unlistenably shrill to anyone that actually had high frequency hearing left.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:23
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Besides the Etymotic ones are there any other good musicians earplugs that are recommended? I was a techno show over the weekend  and mine were good but I felt like I missed out on some of the cool sounds in the higher frequency ranges like hat's with reverb and stuff.
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Mar 31, 2014 23:53
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net work error posted:Besides the Etymotic ones are there any other good musicians earplugs that are recommended? I was a techno show over the weekend If you want better stuff than Etymotic you're looking at ponying up $50 and up.
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Apr 1, 2014 02:41
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The etymotic ear plugs are some of the best for universal fit. I have custom ear plugs that I love (I have tiny ear canals that most universal fit ear plugs just wiggle out of). I cannot recommend them enough; after a show I can fall asleep instead of feeling like my ears are aching and hearing tinnitus. They were ~$125, but are so worth it if you play out and see concerts frequently. Go to an audiologist if you want them, they'll probably hook you up with Westone, although there are some other ear mold companies out there. People receive noise induced hearing loss differently as some get wiped out after not so much exposure and others are more resilient. The weird thing about noise induced hearing loss is that its not how high you can hear. Your inner ear just gets hammered at 4 kHz, so people who receive a lot of noise exposure have an "acoustic trauma noise notch" at 4 kHz. Tinnitus often correlates to the region of hearing loss. If you have constant tinnitus, try pitch matching it. It may end up at around 4 kHz.
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Apr 1, 2014 08:46
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Rifter17 posted:Your inner ear just gets hammered at 4 kHz, so people who receive a lot of noise exposure have an "acoustic trauma noise notch" at 4 kHz. That's down to 3-4khz being the point where your hearing is most sensitive. Your hearing at high levels (~110db, so party levels) is about twice as sensitive in that range than it is lower down the frequency range. I love earplugs for many reasons particularly the whole 'go to bed without ears ringing' but they really cut down on the reverb in a venue (of which there is usually LOADS) which cleans up the sound massively, it's just a better experience all round. Venues don't give a gently caress about lovely DJs running a distorted mixer output and they sure as gently caress don't care about outfitting the venue with any sort of sound absorbing panelling.
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Apr 1, 2014 09:22
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88h88 posted:That's down to 3-4khz being the point where your hearing is most sensitive. Your hearing at high levels (~110db, so party levels) is about twice as sensitive in that range than it is lower down the frequency range. It would be an interesting engineering challenge to come up with sound-absorbent paneling that is not also vomit-absorbent. Maybe they could try those pre-made wall pads that are compressed shredded rags sealed inside reinforced vinyl sheets? Does anybody else remember those from gym class in middle school? I assume they're there to reduce the number of broken noses from running headlong into a brick wall while playing indoor basketball. I have seen what looks like spray-on acoustic foam on ceilings, though I'm not sure if it's really acoustic foam or it's just black paint applied really thick, since I can't touch it. The ultimate would be not only acoustic foam, but architecture that reduces standing waves at low frequencies. Good luck finding a venue like that, though.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:31
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Declan MacManus posted:If you want better stuff than Etymotic you're looking at ponying up $50 and up.
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Apr 2, 2014 08:11
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There's Earasers, can't vouch for them as I am only aware they exist because of a flyer in my local drum shop. I'd like to try a pair, but my old Hearos are still kicking along just fine and are a lot more comfortable than they used to be because the silicone has softened over time. I'd like to try and make a custom-mould set with some etymotics/hearos and some of the Radians diy ear protection stuff. I made a set of custom-mould in-ear monitors with a cheapish set of vsonic earphones and some of this material, and they work really well for isolation purposes (I use them at band practice and can stand next to the drums without issue) as well as providing nice solid bass due to the near-perfect seal. If you trimmed the flanges off the etys so that all you had left was the hollow tube and plastic end and inserted it into the putty before it dried you'd probably get pretty good results.
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Apr 2, 2014 08:32
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I don't know if Earasers are worth it more than the etymotic ear plugs. The Earasers advertise ~19 dB of attenuation with a flat response while the etymotic ones advertise ~15 dB of attenuation also with a flat response. Etymotic is a research facility that produces audiological equipment as well, so I am more inclined to trust them. When you buy custom ear plugs, you get a filter that was made by etymotic. Those Radians scare me to be honest. When you go to an audiologist to have impressions taken, they put a block down your ear canal so no material can get down there. Plus they make a deeper impression that allows the mold making companies to know where the ear drum is and how to angle the sound bore (which is more important if you want to have in-ear monitors, because you may get funky frequency response as sound reflects all over the canal).
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Apr 2, 2014 19:03
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Which Etymotics are you looking at? Mine are -24dB, but they're kind of old so maybe they're different.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:45
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ejstheman posted:Which Etymotics are you looking at? Mine are -24dB, but they're kind of old so maybe they're different. I was thinking of their custom filters. They have filters for 9 dB and 15 dB that they advertise as having a flat response (and a 25 dB one that has some high frequency roll off). I just checked their website and their ety plugs are rated for ~20 dB.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:08
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Please use earplugs religiously. If you're young, it may not seem like you need to, but believe me your ears are a one-way street. Once the damage happens it WILL NOT heal. I am speaking from experience. I have a nice notch around 3Khz which I can no longer hear at normal volumes. This is a very common range for hearing loss, and it is the range that we're used to picking up human voice with so YOU WILL MISS IT WHEN IT'S GONE. I certainly do. When my initial loss happened I had ear pain for a few months; I couldn't handle fairly quiet noises, and some normal noises like having a car window open weren't bearable. I hated ambient noise, and had tinnitus throughout. Fortunately that all died down; I no longer have pain, and no longer have rampant tinnitus. I also no longer have normal hearing in that range. It took me months to stop being depressed about it, and probably about a year until I didn't stop noticing it every single minute of the day I was hearing something. Now, I still remember what stuff used to sound like (7 years later) but I've adjusted to how I'm hearing things now. SO WEAR EARPLUGS, DAMMIT! I actually prefer the yellow foam ones to molded ones, they seem to block out more noise. I use the EAR extra large kind. I also did have molded ones done; for those who are curious, I just walked into the local clinic and asked about them, and they did them on the spot. They clean your ears out, pour in some kind of plastic, wait a minute and then remove it. That's it! Ten minutes later I had custom earplugs, which cost about $90 (I got solid ones for pure protection, but they can also have a tiny tube put them in to allow some normal sound in). They're decent, but like I said I actually prefer foam ones. I can talk with the foam ones in, with the custom ones in I have a lot of voice feedback when I talk.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:23
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After alot of metal concerts and mixing on headphones I've come to notice a slight ringing in my ears in the regular day to day. This has been going on about 8 or 9 years now. It's faint, but definitely there, especially in a silent room. The weird thing is I can still hear all frequencies very well.. and frankly, my hearing is way better than anyone I know. I can usually make out friends and people whispering, or a cell phone going off in the neighbors apartment. The slight ringing doesn't bother me but it is definitely there. I guess that would be "mild" tinnitus or something different? Also I've noticed the more healthier and at ease I am, the more it goes away. Maybe a psychosomatic thing at work as well?
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Apr 19, 2014 23:31
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Speaking as someone with non-noise-related hearing loss in one ear and tinnitus in both, tinnitus is highly psychosomatic in nature. That doesn't mean that the ringing is imaginary, but it's a classic stress response and will almost definitely be more present under stress. Some claim it can be caused by certain kinds of inflammatory/allergic response, but that may or may not be bunk depending on who you ask. By current understanding, a perceived noise in the ears is simply something between the inner ear and auditory cortex telling you something's up; usually it's hair cell damage/fatigue, sometimes it's not. A lot of doctors around here recommend Ginkgo extract to improve circulation to the fine capillaries that provide the ears with whatever they need. I take 60mg twice daily, anything more and side effects become an issue for me; the slight ringing that I wake up to usually subsides (not entirely, but mostly) within 30 minutes of taking a tablet. For patients suffering from more severe tinnitus, they will sometimes prescribe vasodilators and a >1 week period of rest and relaxation. Booze, caffeine and  all do funny things to my condition, but I'm not affected by it enough to cut that stuff out of my life.The Cleaner: I have no way of knowing what the issue might be in your case, but it could be that your hair cells might be experiencing some fatigue and it is manifesting as ringing. Most people will experience this after concerts, with it going away within a few hours/days, but some residual damage is permanent and can cause the kind of ringing you describe. Your ears are stuffed full with these hair cells, and can take a good deal of damage before you really notice a loss, but it would probably be a good idea to take it easy. On the other hand, your hearing most probably will degrade for age-related reasons eventually, and the sanest course of action is probably to wear sufficient protection, and beyond that just let it happen and don't worry about it. snorch fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 10:33
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The Cleaner posted:After alot of metal concerts and mixing on headphones I've come to notice a slight ringing in my ears in the regular day to day. This has been going on about 8 or 9 years now. It's faint, but definitely there, especially in a silent room. That's textbook mild tinnitus. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 18:41
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Earplugs are so constantly neglected, it makes me crazy. I was in my local music scene for a while, and out of the dozens of gigs I played, all the bands I've gone to see and played with, barely any of them wore earplugs. I've never been in a live music setting where using earplugs didn't make everything immediately better. Go to Home Depot, buy a bag of 150 earplugs for 15 bucks, and don't go deaf. It isn't very hard to figure out the benefits of that.
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Apr 25, 2014 00:07
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How common is it to have free earplugs at shows? I see it a lot, but I mostly turn up for hippie electronic stuff so that's a pretty limited sample.
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Apr 25, 2014 01:42
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ejstheman posted:How common is it to have free earplugs at shows? I see it a lot, but I mostly turn up for hippie electronic stuff so that's a pretty limited sample.
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Apr 25, 2014 01:47
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Pretty much everywhere I've been to except tiny DIY things (say, in a park or in an abandonded building or whatever) has always had earplugs either for free or for a euro or two. Don't count on it, though, and always carry a pair in your bag or pocket.
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Apr 26, 2014 00:43
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net work error posted:Besides the Etymotic ones are there any other good musicians earplugs that are recommended? I was a techno show over the weekend Declan MacManus posted:If you want better stuff than Etymotic you're looking at ponying up $50 and up. V-Moda Faders are $20
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May 15, 2014 17:58
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net work error posted:I think the answer would be obvious but do techno/electronic music shows have a different affect on hearing loss than rock shows since the lower frequencies are more present? Although I feel like loud is loud and either way it's bad but am curious. Please feel free to make fun of me for how dumb this question is.
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May 15, 2014 18:14
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I got the large Etymotics and they turned out to be too large for my ears, and they're not convenient to carry around. The case can attach to a keychain, but it's kind of awkward. The case for DownBeats is way better, and I always have them with me now. I'm not sure how the sound reduction compares with the Etymotics as I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, and they fit differently. I have considered buying the smaller Etymotics and seeing if they fit in the DownBeats case, but until then, at least I still have something on me at all times. I play the trumpet, and you can't use earplugs with the trumpet in situations where tone quality counts (you end up only hearing what's transmitted through your jaw, and it's nothing like the actual sound coming out of the horn). I don't wear them when playing with the orchestra or brass quintet, but the volume isn't so bad there. I don't wear them when playing in a big band either, but I'm in the back so it's still not too bad. When I'm in front of the funk band, I generally have at least one in (the ear facing the drums) and in louder venues, both. If it's so loud it hurts, then it's loud enough that tone doesn't mean anything. It also makes it so I can actually hear myself play in situations like that - just like how you can hear yourself talk with earplugs in.
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May 26, 2014 21:24
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cname posted:V-Moda Faders are $20 I tried the Etymotics and found that I wasn't hearing everything I wanted to (mixing live sound). I got these Alpines http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-Hearin...lpine+ear+plugs and they are both more comfortable than the Etymotics and they seem to have a flatter response. I can hear everything I want with them. $16.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:20
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Longhair posted:I tried the Etymotics and found that I wasn't hearing everything I wanted to (mixing live sound). I got these Alpines http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-Hearin...lpine+ear+plugs and they are both more comfortable than the Etymotics and they seem to have a flatter response. I can hear everything I want with them. $16. The guy above^ said they didn't dampen the volume enough to feel safe. I have some Heroes plugs and although they're uncomfortable and maybe not top-of-the-line, they definitely reduce the volume to a safe level even when standing right next to the drat PA speakers. I'm all for getting a better response out of my plugs, but not at the expense of my hearing. The earlier poster's remarks kinda turn me off to trying the Alpines, though I am curious.
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Jun 4, 2014 08:24
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| # ? May 22, 2024 05:50 |
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Any noise induced hearing loss is called "sensorineural hearing loss". It is essentially damage to the auditory nerve. Some people can go to live shows and have what is called a temporary threshold shift where any loss after the show will correct back to baseline after a few days. Too many TTSs will result in permanent hearing loss. In general, the following is the max amount of time you can spend in various loud environments before hearing loss occurs: At 90dB: 2 hours At 95dB: 1 hour At 100dB: 15min At 105dB: 5 min At 115dB: 30 seconds At 130dB: 1 second Human hearing is tested between 250Hz-8000Hz. It's very common with people to have a loss at 3k-4kHz called the "4k notch". With techno music that has very low frequency kicks combined with very high synth stuff, it is not uncommon to have losses at the lower frequencies as well as the mids and highs. Most venues don't give a gently caress about the level of intensity a band/DJ is playing at, and are perfectly happy blowing everyone's hearing out by keeping everything at 100dB+ for the entirety of the 4-5 hour show. There really should be a law against outputting sound in a venue higher than a certain dB level, but no one listens to or even knows what an Audiologist is so that will never happen. Wear ear plugs. No one notices. If they do and laugh, you can laugh back at them when they are 29 years old with hearing aids.
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Jun 9, 2014 10:10
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