quote:

I have to say I don't support the decision by NJPW to give him the belt, even if I am an AJ Styles fan (and I'm not).

I never really liked Styles, to be honest. While I'll give him credit that he IS a good wrestler, I don't think he's as great as most of his fans make him out to be, calling him one of the greatest/best of all time, etc.

When I look at AJ Styles, I see a guy who has been massively and excessively pushed throughout his career.

In early ROH, from 2002 to 2006, he was blatantly shoved down the throats of the ROH crowds, almost always winning (defeating Punk 3 times in a row, defeating Danielson twice, defeating the Briscoes 3 times in a row, winning a Tag Team Scramble without even having a tag partner, etc).

And as for how he was over-pushed in TNA, I'll just say this; by the time TNA was even 3 years old (2005), Styles had already won every single championship in the company at LEAST twice.

And now, barely a month after he arrived in NJPW, he was given a title shot and subsequent victory, ending the year-long reign of Okada.

His career aside, I also have very little respect for Styles when it comes to his attitude. The guy has a bad history of almost always refusing to put other people over, to a point where he would almost never eat the pin in a tag match if his team is booked to lose.

I was disgusted by the match he had against Davey Richards at ROH Death Before Dishonour IV.
At the time, Richards was new to ROH, and other wrestlers who, like AJ, were also strongly booked in the company did their best to put him over and make him look good (Strong, Aries, the Briscoes, even KENTA).
Styles would not sell a single move from Richards, not even a DDT on the floor. Richards eventually retaliated by doing the same thing and refusing to sell for him as well.

During the ROH Milestone series, when Styles and Matt Sydal were in a tag match against two Dragon Gate wrestlers, one of whom was Dragon Kid, Styles refused to sell anything from Kid and behaved very disrespectfully throughout the entire match.

I would go so far as to say that I think Styles is worse than Low Ki. At least during a match, Ki would be professional enough to sell the offense of his opponent even if he's refusing to lose to him.

And from what I've heard, when he returned to ROH in 2013, Styles has almost always refused to put over anybody in ROH when the company could have really used a high-profile veteran who would be willing to do so for the younger talent. I was glad that ROH made him put over Michael Elgin.

I don't hate him, but I very little respect for the man. I do think he IS a good wrestler, but not so good that he deserves to be pushed to the moon like this.

I hope NJPW won't over-push him like TNA and ROH have and give in to his refusal to put over other wrestlers, but seeing how they just handed him the belt barely a month after he got in, it looks like Styles is going to be massively pushed AGAIN...

quote:

Brock winning the belt would be the biggest gently caress you to all the talent in the company that busts their rear end and will never get a fair shot, so of course he'd win it.

quote:

I'm sayin' man. That drives me nuts.


He's not the greatest. Not by a long shot. He's the guy they WANT to be the greatest, but he's not. And I like Cena, but he has become everything that's wrong with the company. No risk taking. Overprotecting talent who don't need the rub while squandering young talent like Sandow, Ziggler and Rhodes for reasons that are unexplanable. Trying to force a star down our throat instead of letting the crowd react and letting it happen organically.


The whole reason why have the Cena we have now is that from the start of when the crowd begun booing him in 2005 until loving NOW, they just shrug their shoulders and say "that's just fans being fans", instead of trying to delve into WHY people are booing this guy who is supposed to be their Superman. But people hate the invincible, nye undestructible, infallible version of Supes. Only when Superman shows so modicum of humanity do people give the guy his props for being fuckig awesome.


Cena needs to evolve. They won't turn the fucker heel, and they won't have him give into an edgier side of him that all told is closer to the REAL Cena. So we're stuck with this assclown that the WWE trumpets as "the best" until John retires, probably.


Christ...even Hulk Hogan knew he had to turn heel, and he basically did everything possible to protect himself. Turning heel was a HUGE risk, but he saw the dollar signs and he jumped on loving board, and if did breathe no life into his character, no matter how briefly it was before his ego took over good story telling.


Uugggghhh!

quote:

...and I don't want to watch wrestling for a while. Thanks, WWE. You just pissed on all the good will you had for the entire rest of the PPV.

quote:

I'm saying it.

He's not a terrible wrestler by any stretch of the imagination, but he's no better in the ring than anyone else that's been the top of the business aside from Hogan, Sid, Nash, and Khali.

He's great on the mic, but there are plenty of guys that just never get the chance to show they are too. And there are plenty of people that aren't in-ring talents that could easily go toe-to-toe with him, so he's still not the greatest.

He knows his psychology, but again, so do plenty of other people that just never get the chance to showcase it like he did, and there are plenty of guys coming up right now that could give him a run for his money here too.

No one cares about comparisons to Cena, veiled or direct, anymore. The reason for this is the last argument I have for why he's overrated.

He's a prima donna pain in the rear end to work with that can't set his ego aside to just do the job and enjoy his work. I'd have preferred he had gotten over himself and stuck around, but if he's not going to get over himself, then I'm glad the quitter quit. I'm glad he was smart enough with his money to be able to too. I'm also glad he's not around to bring down the mood in the locker room with his poo poo attitude.

I hope he does get over himself and come back for love of the work, but I'm ok if he doesn't. He didn't really offer us anything that Edge didn't in his Cena feud anyway.

flashy_mcflash posted:

He's been on this schtick a while if that's the case.

quote:

Attendance is stagnant and the Network has basically killed any chance of WWE ever getting in the PPV business ever again. The TV deals have't turned out to be what WWE thought it was going to be and the audience is heavily reliant upon those who became fans as kids in the 80's and 90's (which is why the average age of a raw viewer is something like 37). The 2000's haven't really created new fans and the audience is going to keep hemorraghing fans unless a new star can come and really draw new viewers, not just the children of wrestling fans.

More importantly, there are fewer people watching wrestling today than at any other point in American history. Regional promotions which could reliably draw in the thousands? Dead. Local Tv shows? Dead. PWG? Hitting the glass ceiling audience wise (they refuse to switch venues so they're stuck selling the same amount of tickets. ROH? Less buzz and attention than its ever had. Global Force? Potential there, but probably limited to importing other products for the time being. TNA? Stumbling and probably has killed the chance of wrestling getting on a mid-major network for a while.

We all like to talk about the WWE's troubles, but it's easy to forget that a lot of the grass roots promotions which were reliably drawing in small towns on a weekly basis are gone and in terms of total paying audience, let alone combined tv audience, there are just a lot fewer butts in seats.

Let's look worldwide then. All Japan? Dead. Noah? Dying. Wrestle-1? Struggling. Joshi Promotions? Gone. DDT is rising and New Japan is back on top, but those two combined still lack the major "asses in seats" factor Japan had in the 80's and 90's. Mexico, CMLL? Dying. AAA? Going okay but nowhere near what it used to be. Europe? Some small federations popping up now, but the old touring promotions are gone on the continent and the era of millions tuning in to watch Big Daddy are long gone.

Wrestling has no real great stars left, the icons people are dying to see. Instead you basically have the WWE brand everywhere but Mexico and Japan. And, with the WWE struggling as it is, if it goes, pro wrestling goes, because the weekly wrestling audience, the people you could count on to restart promotions, stopped watching in the late 80's. So yeah, the network is bad news and Pro Wrestling in general, as an entertainment form, is probably at its weakest point since its creation. Unless it starts getting paying asses in seats again, it will continue to slowly wither.

Charles Gnarwin posted:

Do you really think that striking him down wouldn't just lead to him returning stronger?

flashy_mcflash posted:

I've definitely heard people talk about wanting Gary Bettman dead and I'm like 85% sure I've read more than one published editorial openly talking about it.

sportsgenius86 posted:

quote:

Yes, a Japanese company that is part of Global Force Wrestling getting an American TV deal has nothing to do with GFW...

quote:

He's the son of a highly successful promoter! They're good at sweetalking TV folk!

Testekill posted:

http://officialfan.proboards.com/thread/512722/punk-weeks-art-wrestling-podcast

This thread is a goldmine for lovely opinions. Some people just hate CM Punk and will never give him an inch, even if for example it is because the WWE doctor misdiagnosed a serious staph infection. I could go through the thread and pick and choose stuff and get a couple of posts worth of poo poo if you want.

quote:

This is JUST Punk's side of the story. Of course he's going to make himself sound 100% right and WWE 100% wrong in it. That's how he sees it. This does not justify the personal attacks against people that cannot be verified and the fact that half his complaints center around WWE not bowing to his ego make the rest of it suspect. Use your heads: Punk has a history of prima donna behavior.

quote:

How did she go to her supervisor the day after with five broken vertebrae? Even if that part is true, going the day after instead of that day means that the injury could have happened off the clock. Which means, no workman's comp case.

Three months to file a police report? (not something anyone who didn't witness can do, which, she should know.)


Just seems fishy to me.

quote:

Okay, I’m all-in on this. For the first time since his debut, I truly get and appreciate Bull Dempsey.

He’s Salieri. He comes in as a “monster,” but he’s not really a monster. He’s doing what he thinks a monster does. He’s a “learned monster.” He’s got other peoples’ moves, other peoples’ gear and comes equipped with a sing-along entrance theme. He squashes people and wins, and he’s fine, but it never really impresses anyone. His peers are guys like Mojo Rawley. He doesn’t have anything worth a drat to compare himself to. Then here comes Mozart and his bright lights and his tattoos and his wolf jacket, accomplishing what Bull’s been so desperate to accomplish without even trying. It crushes him. So the next time out, he tries to beat this jobber as fast as he can. He does it in record time, too, about 25 seconds. As he’s leaving, Mozart shows up again. His match is next. Salieri stands on the stage to watch him play. Mozart wins in about half the time. He can’t win. Nothing he’s ever gonna do, no matter how hard he works, will be as good as this rear end in a top hat who just appeared out of the blue with every gift you can have.

I get you now, Bull. You’re not a monster. You’re one of us.

quote:

Jeff Jarrett is a brilliant promoter no matter how you swing it. If he had remained 100% in charge, both on and off camera for TNA, they'd be doing much better.

Yes, you had him putting the title on himself... A lot.... But honestly? That made him a better heel authority figure, thus creating better babyface champions when they managed to take the belt from him, and thus creating more interesting storylines when someone else came to take the belt from that person, only to then find a way to get it back to Jarrett.

At one time, TNA was on its way to being legitimate competition to the WWE. They just needed more exposure than what Spike could give them.

Great White Hope posted:

It's stupid because Babe Ruth isn't the GOAT, Barry Bonds is.

Testekill posted:

Who was that?

triplexpac posted:

I hated the Last Ride at the time, if only because the Tombstone is so much better. I can appreciate the Last Ride more now though, since we've had so many Play of the Day type finishers since.

some jagoff from the spoony experiment forums on AJ's recent twitter comments posted:

But, are they getting paid the same for the amount of screentime they get that the men would in a similar situation? (I realize that they're not paid by the hour or anything even remotely like that. Just asking a question based on proportions)

Are they being asked to take the same risks? (Even a bottom of the mid-card guy like Adam Rose or Fandango takes more risks in an average match than any of the Divas will in an average week.)

And do they draw in the numbers that the men do? (No, but this is not entirely their fault.)

If a woman is doing the same job just as well, and has been doing it just as long, she deserves to be paid the same as her male counterpart. Otherwise, there should be some disparity. If she has been there longer, she should have gotten more raises. If she does a better job, her raise should be bigger. Likewise, if she hasn't been there as long, fewer raises, and if she doesn't do as good a job, smaller raises.

That is how it should be. Pay based off of performance.

quote:

Nice to know I can continue to not watch WWE stuff.

my rebuttal posted:

Yeah man I hate watching Brock Lesnar have cool matches or murder people

quote:

h yeah dude, I -DO- Hate Brock Lesnar, I quite fully and completely admit that I don't like him, and would sooner see X-Pac as WWE champion than Lesnar.

He is a big giant meat head, SO WHAT those are a Dime a Dozen in the WWE and they will do this thing called "Showing the gently caress up every PPV" unlike Mr. Part Time Champion, and some of those can actually talk without sounding stupid and don't need Paul "I have had the same gimmick longer than John Cena" Heyman to carry them.

Go ahead and enjoy Brock, you have fun with that. All it does is free up 3 hours a week and 3 hours once a sunday for me.

Sanguinia posted:

Christ, I don't really like Lesnar that much and even I'd never say something as obviously stupid as "He's a dime a dozen meathead"

quote:

The thing with Brock is, that minus that bit of extra credibility from being the legit fighting champion that he was, you could take his general booking, and easily apply it to Rusev, Cesaro, Big E, or even NXT guys like Corbin (if they ever let him get a moveset) and Dempsey. They aren't already built up, but its not hard to build a monster heel, especially if you have a mouthpiece to cover the mic end (which many big men seem to be terrible at, for whatever reason)

Gaz-L posted:

I kinda enjoy the dude, but I half expect that to be Antwiler himself.

quote:

WWE is planning a Brock vs. Rock match as the main draw for WM32, because they've finally given up trying to build stars and are just going to milk the old ones.

Discuss.

Cyron posted:

I was a poster on the spoony forum before i was permabanned for just stright up making GBS threads on its poster in the wrestling and games forum. (A few folks sided with neo nazis and victim blaming rape victims). i am a classless person but i had my limits. I also pissed off the mod for thinking the cubs goat curse is bullshit and i was the cubs fan in the debate.

Extreme0 posted:

There are more things I could say, I just don't know how those forums somehow manages to gather the most weridest/disgusting people imaginable but there you go.

Cardinals fan Spoony Experiment forum mod on why Punk is a bad person posted:

He's made no bones about never really giving a gently caress about the fans. There are guys at every level, from high school gyms and bars all the way to the Tokyo Dome that thank the fans regularly in promos, at signings, and so on...I honestly don't recall seeing or hearing of Punk ever being gracious for fan support, it's always "I'm the best, me me me, I make this great, I'm the only reason this show is anything above absolute dogshit."

He was drat good, but he lacks humility. He has no sense of the idea that it's more than just him that makes an industry like that even possible. So sure, without wrestlers, particularly good ones, there's no show worth seeing, but without a fanbase even the good wrestlers don't have a market in which to justify having a show.

ShootaBoy posted:

bobkatt013 posted:

TNA is the movie Teeth.

spoony experiment wrestling mod posted:

I like how Punk likes to cheer for people that do things he doesn't...you know, finish doing what they were given a contract to do.

Spoony Experiement wrestle mod posted:

There's nothing vile about that. It's business. Calling that vile is on par with calling Pepsi vile for taking up shelf space that RC Cola could be filling. What's vile about being the one guy to generate more wrestlers with the potential to retire with less financial or medical concern than any other promoter in history? ROH wants to play in the big leagues, they're going to need to deal with cut throat poo poo. Why should he have to share? What does he owe a company that is actively striving to be direct competition to him, trying to take a portion of his and all o his employees' potential income?

This isn't kindergarten, guys, it's the real loving world.

Writer Cath posted:

Why can't we have flippy hoss offs?

rovert posted:

Was the term Rob used but fair cop.

Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/KojimasBread/status/1026428601720336385

GEORGE W BUSHI posted:

Inokiism Twitter is really funny and they seem pretty cool though. That tweet was just bad.