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sbaldrick posted:The problem with going after Drumpf is nothing seems to phase him thus far. It doesn't matter if it phases him or not, the point is to point out how lovely he really is. On another note maybe rather than protest traditional white people movies and instead go see Tyler Perry movies why not actually go see movies with and about Black people that are quality? Go see Race. It was a good sports biopic.
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Feb 29, 2016 18:55
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SlothfulCobra posted:John Oliver was actually being pretty fair about the whole thing by focusing on just how utterly incompetent and useless Trump has been in his own dealings rather than how bad his policies are. The best way to attack Trump is not respond to the crazy/racist/bigoted poo poo that he says during his campaign, but rather just point out poo poo that he's said years ago. CNN did a great piece today where they pointed out he was lying about not knowing about the KKK leader endorsing him, etc... He has said and done some pretty reprehensible things in the past like not allowing Black people to rent in his buildings, saying "Laziness is a trait of the blacks" and more stuff including anti-semitism on the racism and bigotry front but really just show that he hasn't made any money since he inherited his father's money, show the people that he fails in business deals and just fails in a lot of his efforts overall, you know, which he does. Once we hit a general election all the poo poo that seemingly slides right off Drumpf will tank him. Americans (not the conservative minority we have in this country) will not elect a bigoted, silver spoon, wall street elite to the position of President, not in today's world. This is reflected in the numbers, even the Republican party itself hates him not to mention the majority of the country is literally ashamed of having him be a candidate, let alone a president. Also yea I really wanted to see Dope but never got the chance but now that its on Netflix I guess I got no excuse.
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Feb 29, 2016 23:20
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IRQ posted:I won't vote for Hillary. But it doesn't hurt her or help Trump; where I live there's a better chance of it raining whatever the hell Trump's hair is made of than him winning. It really dawned on me that I have completely lost faith in the system since I realized that Bernie won't win the nomination and I'm going to be forced to vote for scum (HRC) to prevent worse scum from getting the presidency (Drumpf). We'll see after today, but so far it looks like a battle between status-quo, no change, fake, flip flopping, neo-con versus Drumpf Uber Alles: a caricature of all the worst parts of the Republican party. Jesus. No hope for America anymore.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:46
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VagueRant posted:I'm not American but I would vote for Sanders if I was, and I wouldn't vote for Hilary if he lost. I've actually seen people talking about voting for Drumpf to make things worse to make the 'revolution' necessary in the future and to speed it up. Bolsheviks are alive I guess.
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Mar 1, 2016 17:55
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Echo Chamber posted:I thought it was disappointing. It kind of reflects Oliver's liberal impulses more when a stronger analysis would have been welcomed. Like, he gave rotting American institutions too much credit, when Trump's ascent could largely be credited to their failings. And a lot of Trump's setbacks could be credited to the divisions within the GOP and the president's preference for smoke and mirrors over actually doing the dirty work. Oliver is consistent in having his analysis be hamstrung by being a liberal
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Nov 19, 2018 18:05
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SlothfulCobra posted:The authoritarian bit is both scary and depressing. It's not necessarily a given that democracy will triumph in the end, and it's fully possible it'll end up going quietly into that good night. I feel like there's also been a circular effect of our institutions weakening allowing authoritarians to rise up to help them deteriorate. Journalists just haven't been cultural heroes to us for a while. Its pretty telling that Oliver completely danced around the analysis that fascism rises when capitalism fails and that liberal democracy can do nothing to stop it This kind of narrow analysis only serves to hurt us. Those very institutions you point out very much delivered fascism to us on a silver platter regardless of their strength or weakness. If there's any silver lining is that those institutions are crumbling and hopefully will be dead soon. We can only be so lucky that liberalism has no future - the only question is will liberals choose socialism or fascism (probably the latter) Phi230 fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 22:46
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Azhais posted:Yeah, it's pretty telling that there are never any facists in socialist countries! Socialism is necessary and sufficient to both prevent and combat fascism. Glad to see you're not mincing words about which side you're more like to join I bet you think socialism is when the government does government things
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Nov 25, 2018 00:45
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Fascists are middle class suburbanites anf other upper class people - pretty much Oliver's audience. Its pretty easy to explain why he'd refuse to tackle the causes of fascism because it would make his audience feel bad All those socialist countries with *looks at paper* private enterprise, wage labor, and stratified economic classes I bet you think Saudi Arabia is socialist because they have public healthcare and government programs lmao The moment your comfortable, privileged lifestyle is threatened you're in the streets with tiki torches Phi230 fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 00:52
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Sivart13 posted:yo where it is it you've been spending time on the internet that this harebrained socialism/facism based worldview is the only thing you wanna talk about Look at this moron who hasn't been paying attention to the real world for the past 3 years I mean if you ignore the middle class/upper class that's been voting for ultra far right authoritarians across the world because their privilege and comfort is threatened by decaying capitalism (or the mere threat of social change) sure, you're correct If we ignore the white liberals and middle class/upper class in America who have only benefitted from a Trump admin, and for example in my state, chose a white nationalist over even a milquetoast social democrat, then sure your post works out. Turns out that that dichotomy is increasingly becoming apparent and white liberals/suburbanites only stand to benefit from voting for nazis, and plenty have already realized as much I mean the emerging liberal solution to rising fascism is "gently caress immigrants" out of some desire for appeasement. Like how more absurd can you get Phi230 fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 01:10
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Inside every liberal is a fascist waiting to come out
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Nov 25, 2018 01:11
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SlothfulCobra posted:I dunno, while certainly it is handy for many situations for there to be ways that society provides for the needs of its people, it kinda doesn't directly address the political problem. Fascism is largely a response to fictional or self-inflicted problems, not real ones, after all. Preaching for socialism in that context makes it sound like a sketchy cure-all even before you get into particulars (if you even get into particulars). First of all, history shows that in liberal democracies, liberals would rather side with fascists than socialists. This is being repeated today across the world. Second of all, fascism is not a response to fictional or self-inflicted problems. While they use such things as propaganda tools and ways to mobilize, fascism has social and material conditions that are prerequisite. Liberals made the mistake of refusing to recognize fascism as a legitimate mass movement to mostly the left's detriment. The so called "alt-right" were confronted with very real problems - that of an inequitable system that they previously benefited from that is now throwing them under the bus - and instead of seeking an alternative to correct the imbalances of the system and create a more equitable society, their solution to these problems to use to violence to re-assert things like patriarchy, white supremacy, and capitalism to their own benefit. Ultimately, while the fascists do this violence, or use the state to do this violence, for the most part, white liberals and otherwise middle class/upper class (which are a minority in this country mind you) directly benefit from it and sit idly by. The only distinction that history has shown, and that the present day shows, is that liberals are fine with turning the cheek to violence that they benefit from rather than engaging it it themselves. In my own personal experience its you liberals who tut tut at activists when the police use violence against us and then when the right similarly uses violence against people on the left you say "both sides." The reason why socialism prevents fascism and combats it when it arises is twofold - first because socialism does as much as possible to cure the inequalities of capitalism that create a reactionary class and its alienating effects that radicalize said class and second because when fascism rears its ugly head it empowers oppressed groups and dis-empowers the people who support fascists the most (the middle class/upper class) And no, most people are not a non-negotiable enemy. The vast majority of people in the US are working people who are on the receiving end of liberalism's failures. Not all white liberals will go reactionary. The goal is mobilize the majority against the reactionary minority, however people like you seem content with punching left more than (both literally and figuratively) punching right even in the face of a very real threat. Not only have your ideas and policies created the material conditions for fascism to rise, when it finally did, you do nothing but legitimize and enable them rather than fight them. Is it because you really don't care or would you just rather live in a white nationalist society and live comfortably even when people suffer? Phi230 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 01:56
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Bust Rodd posted:Regardless of whatever memed-out reddit version of US geo-politics you think you understand, = bitch read a book and look at some polls and come back to me poo poo not even a book, because plenty of articles have been written about it https://www.thenation.com/article/trumpism-its-coming-from-the-suburbs/ Phi230 fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 02:10
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Bust Rodd posted:Dude you don't even have an av i can't take u seriously. I don't have an av because you privileged lib bastards voted for DeSantis instead of Gillum
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Nov 25, 2018 02:24
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Social democrats in germany had the same shallow analysis you did. See you in the camps I guess, we can continue our convos when the guards aren't looking
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Nov 25, 2018 03:39
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Also you seem to be drawing the line at "disadvantaged" when I always, and the analysis always, shows that its the threat of losing social or economic power. The middle class is largely dead or dying in the US, they go fash to reassert capitalism to their advantage. Not hard. Lol that article is from 2005 and is loving useless good try. Lemme guess you live in the suburbs? Phi230 fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 04:55
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MegaZeroX posted:drat, when did this thread turn into the loving Chapo thread filled with edgy socialist memes? I mean it wasn't too long ago that we had someone defend Mao and link to some tankie propoganda about Venezuela, but I didn't expect to have such a large scale resurgence. The centrism defender has logged on. How long with the both sides rhetoric continue? Note how there is no support for any of your claims, you're just huffing ze pure ideology The country and world have radical problems, and need radical solutions. Nobody buys your attempts to tie the left to nazis. Your post is also categorically wrong, but I guess you're just a chud and don't care. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 00:20
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Dancer posted:Note how there is no support for any of your claims, you're just huffing ze pure ideology First of all he claims that "socialists create their own language" that's somehow meant explicitly to radicalize people but is otherwise meaningless. The terms the left uses comes from actual academia, just as much as liberal terms do. If by that logic socialist theory is "baseless made up poo poo" then liberal/neoliberal theory is similarly baseless and made up. Its a claim made out of zealous anti-leftism that makes no sense. He also claims that political ideas using language to convince people to hold those ideas is somehow unique to radicals? He's making poo poo up to make the left seem illegitimate. Secondly the connection between the decay of capitalism and the rise of fascism is similarly has legitimate academic roots and is not a "meme." There's plenty of analysis of the topic, of which I even posted a news article up the page. His pet theory here is so reductive its meaningless. Phi230 fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 26, 2018 |
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Nov 26, 2018 00:41
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SlothfulCobra posted:In the context of the segment, bemoaning how so many people in charge are dismantling institutions under the unsubstantiated claim of popular support, perhaps it's possible to see why people are hesitant to rally around the idea of dismantling institutions under an substantiated claim of popular support. Yeah, I get that socialism in theory benefits the majority, but you still gotta actually have the support of that majority. My solution as an alternative to what we have today, as well as the vast majority of those in the socialist movement in america, is to replace those undemocratic and/or oppressive institutions with more democratic ones. Its those very institutions that you defend that give authoritarians the power to usurp them! The specific purpose being to remove power from individuals and transfer it to a group. I mean I understand your hesitation but most people can tell the difference between right and left wing populism. Where did I say that the fash be lined up against the wall? I said specifically in this thread to "disempower them." They are unpopular, yet as privileged as they are, our system gives the middle class/upper class the highest consideration and the most political power. In a more democratic system they would lose that unjust power over others. In a democratic economy they similarly would lose their economic power over others. How can a fascist oppress if he does not have power over any one else?
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Nov 26, 2018 01:20
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Imagine a world where there were 20 Master and Commander movies instead of Marvel ones a future denied
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Nov 26, 2018 21:12
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Phenotype posted:When people ask me my political affiliations I tell them that I'd call myself a Libertarian if the Libertarians weren't such a mess. It means that I generally think the government's job is to protect its citizens and otherwise stay out of our lives. Except that means I'm in favor of guns being legal and a strong military to look out for our interests and also in favor of the EPA and stuff like that because protecting citizens means protecting our environment, and I think it should stop corporations from having too much power over us, and basically no one really fits into any category at all and it's just a fancy word that doesn't mean anything. Ah so you don't like society's problems but you like their causes
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Nov 30, 2018 04:10
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Phenotype posted:Is there a movement where you want your businesses to get to a point where they're fiscally solvent and have enough in the bank for research and development but after that making money isn't as important as improving the product? Good joke lmao
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Dec 2, 2018 16:57
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