Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
^^^^^^^^
Ag wastes a whole lot of water through inefficient practices, but it is hard to call a massive sector of our economy and the only thing stopping the right wingers in the valley from starting a war a "waste."

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

Oh, dear, now conservative Texan shitlords are smugging it up about Sriracha and the CEO calling California "communist and anti-business"...

Expect he is on record saying recently, he's not moving the factory to Texas.
He may open a second factory in texas if demand is there, and they can grow the peppers in Texas (apparently the peppers used basically can only grow in ventura county and they need to be fresh). He doesn't want to move to Texas because no sane person wants to, especially when they are rich already.

The whole thing is hilarious and been over blown. He moved his factory near some houses and didn't factor in the possibility that processing tons and tons of peppers might cause a problem.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

natetimm posted:

I don't love the sales tax either but it's better than creating another housing disaster.
How did property tax create a housing disaster?

Over reliance on sales tax rather than a relatively stable (even during a house crash) property tax is one of the reasons why counties and cities in California are still have financial issues.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

A COMPUTER GUY posted:

I'm voting Donnelly because I want to watch the ensuing meltdown :unsmigghh:

I love that the republican party's leader in the election is a racist who can't even remember where he left his guns.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

AYC posted:

It's a throwaway vote because a Democrat/Republican race is a foregone conclusion.

Not always. I live in a majority dem district. There were 2 republicans, a bunch of dems, and some others.
The dem vote split and the top two vote getters were republicans.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Trabisnikof posted:

Which district was that? I assume you mean in 2012.

31st.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ron Jeremy posted:

Hey look a split dem vote for controller leads to two reps leading.

31 may have the same thing happen, again. gently caress, I move to the one part of the IE with not a poo poo ton of republicans. . . .

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Negative Entropy posted:

At least if we have two R controllers in the general, I imagine they will be scrambling to moderate because the first to turncoat will be the first to win.

You'd have thought that, but in my district last time when two Rs ran in a dem district, they still tried to out crazy each other. Most people I know just left that blank.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
And yet, a number of the horrible suburban cities like Glendora and Rancho Cucamonga are still citing people criminally for brown lawns.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Xandu posted:

If the drought does continue to the point where the amount of crops in California has to be seriously cut back, how badly does that impact US food supply?
Probably significantly if you enjoy certain foods.

More importantly on a state level, a reduction in ag output would have a serious impact on the central valley with is already extremely poor. However, farmers could do a lot more to reduce water use with a reasonably negligible cost increase. The problem is that water prices are so low as to encourage waste.
Also, worth noting that a lot of these "farmers" actually farm a small amount and sell their share of underpriced water to southern california cities.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Family Values posted:

Dry California Fights Illegal Use of Water for Cannabis

The article is kind of light on data so I can't tell if this is a serious issue or if the drought is just being used as an excuse to crack down on growers. Diverting streams is obviously bad, but how common is that?

It is actually a pretty big problem and has been for a long time. I have an acquaintance who manages a large tract of forest in Mendo county and the destruction is pretty bad.
The solution is the legalize and regulate it though. The problem is that it is illegal and unregulated.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Zeitgueist posted:

Also a fun fact, there's over 100,000 inmates in SB county on a population of 2 million.

No, it doesn't. CDCR only has 135k people state-wide. The highest percentage come from LA county. San Bernardino is like 3rd or something.
And if you mean county inmates, WVDC has 3.3k beds, Adelanto will have about 3k when complete, Glen Helen has about 1000, and Central has about 800. Joshua Tree and Needles have a few temporary beds.
It is a poo poo ton of prisoners, but not 100k!

nm fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 25, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
Prop 47 is the best idea since prop 36 (either of them).

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
Besides the criminal justice one, the most interesting one to me is the med mal one.
For those who don't know, CA capped med mal damages a few decades ago and hasn't moved the cap since.
Accidentally cut off the wrong leg? Sorry, you're capped a 250k. Or worse. It is pretty screwed up. Before the caps, a partner at my dad's law firm was in a terrible car accident and went way off the freeway. This was before cell phones.
He crawled a mile to the nearest ER7, where they refused to treat him because they thought he was drunk (he was black) and called the police.
Due to the delayed treatment, he never worked a day again and died after 20 years of pain and round the clock treatment. The should be no cap for that poo poo.
On the other hand, I hate the idea of forcing drug tests on doctors (or anyone) when they aren't working.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Guy Farting posted:

Healthcare costs will increase by an unpredictable amount if that bill goes through. Malpractice premiums are not an effective way of ensuring quality of care. Ultimately the cost of all those extra "defensive medicine" tests will be passed along to you via higher premiums and copays.
They're not removing caps, they're indexing them to inflation.
Also, I don't disagree that it isn't an effective method for ensuring quality of care, but I don't give a poo poo. I care about the people who get damaged in terrible ways and only get $250k for not being a function human anymore. Not everyone gets economic damages -- a college student who can not work after his injury essentially gets nothing under the current law.

Med mal premiums have gone up anyhow, despite a cap that has been decreasing in real terms anyhow. It amazes me how doctors understand just how hosed up medical insurers are and then believe the same companies when they blame lawsuits for the cost of malpractice insurance going up.

Now, I would actually support the cap going away. Caps don't protect good doctors. Good doctors are scared of frivolous suits that tend to be in the tens of thousands in non-economic damages (and the number of these suits are much smaller than claimed -- those that pass the early phases of litigation are even smaller). Those people don't care about the cap. It doesn't stop them.
The caps hurt the people who are seriously injured. Those with life long pain and loss of happiness due to gross malpractice. Those doctors and those who insure them deserve no protection. And those who are injured deserve to be made whole and have something to try to make up for the pain.

nm fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Sep 29, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Guy Farting posted:

You don't think increasing caps will increase the number of frivolous lawsuits from predatory lawyers? Increased caps = increased settlement amounts from hospitals and insurers who don't want to fight these edge cases that you describe. The number of cases will increase.

These costs will absolutely be passed onto the consumer and hidden in the overall cost of healthcare. As a bonus it will increase defensive medicine testing with likely no additional benefit to quality of care, and also probably reduce transparency because they will be punished that much more for making an error.

What I have seen proposed is a "health court" independent of an adversarial legal system, composed of lawyers and healthcare professionals and actuarials, who would convene when a patient suffers harm, and determine appropriate compensation. I have not seen this idea take off because nobody wants to champion this idea (because nobody stands to get rich from it).
I don't think it will because the frivolous lawsuits are never in danger of getting more than $250k. Also, the number of them is much, much lower than people think.

You know what costs us all a whole lot of money? Defending lawsuits against police officers alleged to have committed police brutality. There's even more money in it, and potential for settlement because 1983 suits award attorney fees to a party who brings a suit and wins.
These lawsuits are paid for by all of us, by tax dollars. They take money that could go to rehabs, school, and community oriented policing. Mean while, these lawsuits could cause police officers to be slow to react, leading to more injured police officers, leading to increased workers comp billing.

Yet, no one proposes caps on those types of lawsuits.
Not even lawyers have been ballsy enough to propose caps on their malpractice.
And again, this doesn't make the awards unlimited, just tied to inflation (with a one time bigger adjustment). Even if you're in favor of caps, you should agree that they should increase with inflation. In real terms, when the caps were imposed, the cap was over 1 million 2014 dollars.

I am willing to risk paying more to make sure that people injured by very damaging malpractice get what they are due.

nm fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 29, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Guy Farting posted:

Thank you for the citations. I continue to agree with your points, but the proposed bill doesn't address this, which is my point. This bill doesn't get us anywhere closer to fixing the issues that you bring up.

edit: I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but I hope you guys see that this bill is designed to create controversy and distract voters from thinking about real drivers of cost. However I am pretty confident in saying that this bill will do nothing to reduce cost of care. It could improve quality of care by reducing the frequency of doctor shopping for opiates, but it will also likely increase cost and paradoxically reduce quality of care by increasing the frequency of unnecessary lab testing.
I don't see improving quality of care as the goal of the bill. The goal of the bill is to make sure that people injured by malpractice can actually be made whole. "It won't improve care" is a distraction unto itself and not a reason to vote against it.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

fits my needs posted:

I don't understand why doctors getting drug tested is a bad thing. Is it because it's only supposed to humiliate lower-wage workers or something? Plus when there are glorious examples for doctors in the world like Dr. Suresh Nair maybe some drug testing now and then isn't necessarily a bad thing?

Because, I believe that it requires drug testing when off duty. I don't care if my doctor smokes a joint after work.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Guy Farting posted:

I disagree. If this bill passes then CA will take a step backwards with regards to actually caring for harmed patients. We will further entrench the current system. Malpractice suits don't come anywhere close to making patients whole. And what about the patients who lose their cases but still deserve help? This bill ignores them.

Errors will continue to happen. Instead of rewarding successful litigation, we should be studying errors to reduce their frequency. We could be voting on bills to increase patient safety research funding or mandating third party mediation following a medical error.

Rewarding litigation? We're making people whole for doctor gently caress-ups. Yes, money doesn't make up for it, but it sure helps more than nothing and a few words about how we'll learn not to do it again. An example not from medicine. My mother was shot in the 3rd grade by a bunch of rich assholes. She lost sight out of her right eye. She won a fairly substantial lawsuit against the parents. While this didn't bring her eye back, it did means she could go to college on the money and get a Ph.D. Is it as good as an eye, but it gave someone who was knocked down by someone else a leg up.
Why do you doctors think you are deserving of more legal protection than cops, lawyers, firefighters, or anyone else?
I agree we should do more to protect patients and make sure errors are reduced. Saying however that because we haven't done that we should prevent those injured by doctors from recovery makes as much sense as saying that we can't help the dreamers until we seal up the borders.
Finally, if we even agree that the $250k cap made sense back when it was imposed, when that was the equivalent for a million dollars, how can you seriously oppose it declining in real terms every year?

nm fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Sep 30, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Family Values posted:

Pete Rates the Propositions has started filling in his voting guide for this year. I agree with him most of the time (though not always), but even when I don't, his thoughts are informative.

So far only one prop has details but I'm sure he'll fill in the rest in short order.

"At $1.1 million, it will be far higher than in any other state."
Provides link to source that quickly shows that isn't true as many states have no cap. Mhum. . . .

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Leperflesh posted:

I don't think we'll see a population exodus. I think it's much more likely that California's agricultural sector gradually collapses under the weight of the greater voting population of urban and suburban areas voting themselves what remains of California's water supply.

Agriculture is obviously very important economically, but the state's tax revenues and spending power comes from the cities and their service-based economies and that will not go away.

Ag is much more important to CA than I think many people realize simply because if ag goes, the valley outside of Sacramento (already troubled) will collapse.
That said, Ag in CA is incredibly wasteful with water because with current rates, it is cheaper to just buy the water than to minimize water use. Further, many of the big ag groups in CA have such huge allocations that they sell excess water to urban areas.

Also, while urban areas have more voters, central valley farmers (the land owners) are often incredibly wealthy. This gives them a huge amount of clout.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Sydin posted:

Prop 46: Increased cap on medical malpractice lawsuits and random drug testing for physicians. I don't know: I understand the idea but think it goes a bit too far. Reps are against it, Dems tellingly haven't taken a side, although Boxer came out in favor. I'm voting no because gently caress random drug tests.

Prop 47: Drops non-violent crimes that are felonies down to misdemeanors if it's a first offense. Tellingly they're including personal use of drugs. Basically a pretty good step towards reducing some of the strain on our comically overcrowded prison system. Naturally the Republicans are waving their fists in the air screaming that we're letting rapists back on the street.

Oh, and while Dianne Feinstein is against it, Newt Gingrich is for it, saying our prisons are too overcrowded with non-violent offenders and the prop would be a huge boon to the state. Yeah, I don't know either. :psyduck: I'm voting yes half because it's a great idea and half because gently caress Feinstein.


Prop 47 is a great proposition that is gonna save a poo poo ton of money. It also will stop zealous prosecutors from putting people in prison for 4 years for loving shoplifting. For those who say it doesn't happen, I saw someone get that offer on Tuesday. Straight shoplifting of like $200. Her record was completely non-violent and all drugs and shoplifting.
Also, it fixes some stupid issues. Simple possession of meth is right now a "wobbler" which means it can be a misdo. Do the same with coke or heroin, felony only. Prop 47 fixes that. Simple possession should always be a misdo and this makes it a misdo.
Note that this drops many crimes to misdemeanors regardless of record (unless you have what is called a "super strike" or a sex offense). This is a good thing because possession and theft under $950 should always be misdemeanors.
Anyone who votes no is an rear end in a top hat.

I'm voting yes on prop 46. The problem is that we established a malpractice cap 30 years ago and never raised it. This raises the level to where it would be with inflation and ties it to inflation. Right now, if you're unemployed, and some quack ruins your life, you get $250,000 plus medical bills. If he cut your leg off, you probably want more. This cap does basically nothing to get rid of frivolous lawsuits as they're generally under $250k, but it hurts the hell out of people who have legitimate, serious losses.
That said, gently caress drug tests. It isn't gonna pass anyhow, I'm voting yes in the hopes that it will be high enough they'll rework it.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Sydin posted:

Pretty much. The whole wobbler concept is bullshit, and non-violent drug offenses being felonies is one of the main contributors to our prison overcrowding.

I was almost certain it was destined to fail due to scare tactics, but according to the polls it's actually solidly winning, which is great.
There's also like 500 guys with cases continued to November 5 who are gonna be pissed if it fails in my county.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

FRINGE posted:

If the prison guards union finally loses a political battle in CA I will be shocked and delighted.

They lost both prop 36s too. I have hope.

Also, realignment was and is a good thing and don't let anyone tell you different.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
They're reporting prop 47 passed. As a Public Defender, I'm pretty stoked. Its also gonna save so much loving money.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

AshB posted:


The real-world effect of 47 is that a lot of cases will get kicked over from felonies to misdemeanor land, where courts in impacted counties (more crime, less funding) will really suffer. In those counties, basically what will happen is that the realities of jail overcrowding and budget constraints will force prosecutors to lowball their offers and basically offer no jail or reduced jail time on crimes they otherwise ought to face more reasonable consequences for.

These budget constraints are already a serious problem in a lot of places, and 47 exacerbates that problem without helping to ease the transition in any way. There won't be funding for new courts, judges, or government attorneys to handle the influx of cases.

It was a decent idea in theory, but the execution looks pretty bad. I'm not surprised that all about two DAs were opposed to the measure.
Uhm what? A felony 666 is going to take way more money to prosecute than a misdemeanor 484.
And they should lowball the offers more. To quote my (deeply red) county sheriff, "We should be housing the people we are afraid of, not the people we're made at." In any event, our jails are already massively overcrowded.

DAs were opposed to this because they can't leverage people into plea deals on weak cases with the threat of long prison sentences. It makes their job harder, boo loving hoo.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

AshB posted:

I agree a felony 666 would take more money to prosecute than a misdemeanor 484. But at the same time, I would expect more new misdemeanor cases going to trial because there wouldn't be early resolutions. I am not totally opposed to this in principle, but I think there should be funding to support it. Because there won't be funding, it just means lowball offers with virtually no consequences for repeat offenders. I'm not sure how that's a good thing.

I work in a county where I see people getting 8 year offers on 666s involving <$100 with nothing but 459, 484s, and 666s because of prison priors. No amount of my tax dollars is worth housing that person for 4 years to save wally world $100.
It will have some bad consequences, but it will do more good than harm especially in inland counties where insane offers on petty poo poo are the norm. We'll probably go to trial less, because felons will take something less than a county year all day.

nm fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Nov 6, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Kobayashi posted:

What the hell are 666s and 484s?

E: and 459s.
California penal codes.
484=petty theft
666=petty theft with a prior (I would have saved that one for murder [187] or child loving [288]).
459=burglary. Generally 2nd degree commercial which is generally shoplifting. "459 1st" is residential burg.

Lawyering broke me.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

AshB posted:

I do think though, that in an ideal world, misdemeanor prosecutors could keep on upping offers and taking these cases to trial. I think a year in jail would get the point across without the burden of several years in prison. But 47 will probably exacerbate the issue of overcrowded jails, and it's the poorer communities that will suffer for it.
Our jails are already full with people doing 4-8 years for all sorts of poo poo, much of which (but not all) is covered by prop 47. If those people start getting 1 year bullets, that is going to reduce the crowding issues.
Long jail sentences don't really work anyhow because they won't even have CDCRs minimal programming in most places (we only have one small jail doing that with 2 massive jails and 1 medium jail with basically no programming).

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

e_angst posted:

Does getting your car impounded lead to it being forfeited in California? Here in Texas if you're doing something stupid enough to get the cops to tow you (drag racing, etc) you usually just have to pay the fine to get your car back from the impound.

No, they're not seizing those cars. The tow yards going to make a lot of fees, but no one's car is getting seized off that. Asset fortifier for anything but cash is even extremely rare even in my right wing part of CA.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
MUNI is terrible until you compare it to every other US public transit system that isn't in Manhattan.
Now the Bay Area generally has poo poo public transit if you don't live near a BART/Caltrain stop (and where you need to go is on the same system).

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Spazzle posted:

What fraction of the long term homeless are mentally ill?

Huge. Not all of them are pants on the head crazy, but it still is a serious issue.
Many of them self-medicate with drugs or alcohol, which can make the MH issues worse.

Lots of people argue that a fair number of homeless chose to be homeless. Most that actually do are mentally ill and whatever service offered doesn't mesh with the help offered.

For example, I had a client who had been homeless for years. Vet. Drinking himself into an early grave.
We lined up a spot at Salvation Army. He had been in jail, sober and was loving ready. Excited. We found his sister, who hadn't seen him in years to drive him to Oakland (we were in the burbs). She did and she dropped him off.
Apparently, he had been diagnoised with anxiety at sometime, told them, and was rejected.
His ride had already left, they didn't call anyone, and he was 50mi from home. I never saw him again, I hope he is still alive.
I will never give salvation army a loving dime again.

nm fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Dec 3, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Pohl posted:

How California's New Rules Are Scrambling The Egg Industry

Npr article on the new regulations saying that all eggs sold in the state have to come from chickens that have enough room to essentially turn around and flap their wings. I was wondering why egg prices seemingly doubled recently, I guess this explains it.

While I sympathize with people on really tight food budgets, I'm all for this. Chickens are really loving awesome, and I will pay extra if it means treating them with as much respect and compassion as possible.
The problem is that the law is very poorly written and does not actually define what a legal cage is. The regulatory body, whose recommendations are NOT binding (means HSUS and Peta can still sue for enforcement even if you follow the recommendation) just pubished its recs in the last week. It takes years to recoop the farms, so they haven't be able to invest in the last few years. Chicken ranchers (what they want to be called) have both lobbied to have a definitons established and also tried litigation.
The year this passed basically showed why propositions suck. Prop8 passed and we passed this feel good bullshit law that defines nothing. If they had gone through a proper legislative process, these questions would have been resolved.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Dec 31, 2014

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Trabisnikof posted:

LA used to have more passenger rail, but its backyards now.

You would take street car from Downtown to San Bernardino.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

computer parts posted:

They'll choose none of the above.


Yes it's the Boomers' fault, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

The man behind the curtain? Also a boomer.

Shbobdb posted:

People who say they like Adam Smith should actually read Adam Smith. He spent a lot of time addressing these issues. I know that isn't really what they are saying here, but it comes up all the time and I'm just sitting there yelling "come on!". I'm not even getting into Theory of Moral Sentiments, dude talked about similar poo poo in Wealth of Nations!

If Adam Smith was alive today, I'm sure he'd be attacked as a socialist.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

etalian posted:

In N Out is actually how Californians hide terrorist sleeper cells in other states

SHHHHHHHH!

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Then why does it say this:

quote:

They chanted: “No justice, no peace. (Expletive) the police.”

Or are millennial protesters just terrible at protesting?

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Shbobdb posted:

Having protested a fair amount, chants get recycled. Especially when you are bored as gently caress.

But a completely off-topic chant? I mean this did seem organized, a few chants about tuition increases might have helped.
Also, blocking the admin building or occupying a floor would make more sense if that is what they wanted to do. Especially as the admin at the UCs have expanded massively since the 80s (though funding has also been cut back).

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
The whole thing is a shitfest between an administration that won't cut its bloated self, and the tax payers who won't pay enough to fund a truly world-class system. I hate to go all truth is in the middle, but it is mostly true here, though I blame the tax payers more as even with reduced admin, the UC will be underfunded, particularly if it will use tenure track people like they should. The students are stuck in the middle.
California voters do oppose the tuition increases. However, the alternatives for funding are cutting classes, teaching staff, and admitting few instate students in favor of out-of-states, which they also supported in the same poll as the alternative to increases.

Shbobdb posted:

Likewise, the kind of person who is going to do a protest like that is going to have a lot of political feelings. They are gonna chant about all of 'em. And they should. No one accuses MLK of being "unfocused" on civil rights because he spent a lot of energy on anti-war and economic justice.
Both of those related to MLK's message. "gently caress the police" doesn't relate to theirs (though, it would relate to MLK's), and in fact, gives certain persons tools to marginalize them.

nm fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Mar 4, 2015

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

FRINGE posted:

UCSC was laid out to minimize the ability to do anything like this in response to various historical UCB happenings. (Anecdotal story from UCSC professor.)

It would be like chaining yourself to a random tree in a forest and hoping someone noticed.

Ucsb was established in 65, before most of the UCB protests.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

Hey man, they get pensions. Even I don't get a pension! Better cut compensation in order to boost the quality of teaching.

Good news, the UC has cut back on tenured positions, so they've done that already.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply