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baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

a pipe smoking dog posted:

A major fraud trial has just been stayed because the defendants can't afford proper representation because of the legal aid cuts to very high cost crimes, which basically means that it is now impossible for the crown to prosecute in complex cases. Really Chris Grayling should be forced to resign over this but I doubt it will even make the lunchtime news.

Also the defence barrister (working pro bono) is Alexander Cameron QC better known as the PMs brother.

So in case I'm missing something, this is an entirely different case that's collapsing due to legal aid cuts:

quote:

A criminal prosecution is in danger of collapse because dozens of medical experts have declined to give advice about a defendant's fitness to stand trial following deep cuts in their fees.

The case, which cannot be identified, suggests growing resistance among professional witnesses to reduced legal aid rates, a stance that could undermine the criminal justice process.

Neurologists were, until December last year, being paid about £90 an hour but their fees have now been reduced to £72 an hour with no travelling expenses. Even though in this case they are being offered the older, higher fee, a total of 27 neurologists have declined to take on the legal aid work, according to lawyers representing the defendant.

Only one neurologist, who lives in Scotland, agreed to accept the case, but since his travel expenses will not be paid, the solicitors say, he cannot be recruited. The law firm, which has now applied for additional funding, says it has been told it can pay extra to secure the services of an expert witness but believes it would have no way of recovering any additional outlay.

quote:

The case, involving an allegation of violence, has been listed for a further hearing. The judge has indicated that the prosecution may not be able to go ahead if there is no medical report on the defendant's fitness to plead because he might not receive a fair trial.

quote:

Complaints about cuts in experts' fees surfaced during consultations over the regulations. Dr Chris Pamplin, editor of the UK register of expert witness, said: "The Ministry of Justice has had room-fulls of people warning them that this would happen [when the consultations took place].

"We asked the MoJ to focus on the way they used experts not just to slash their fees. They said that was too complicated and would cut what they pay. They have also cut cancellation fees and don't pay travel expenses. If they do the work on NHS time, the NHS gets the fee. But now it costs the NHS more to employ the doctors than it collects in fees. What has happened is entirely predictable."

David Cohen, of the Academy of Experts, which supports and trains professionals on how to give evidence in court, said he was aware many experts were declining to work for reduced legal aid fees.

"They slashed the rates by 10% a few years ago," he told The Guardian. "Now they have cut it by another 20%. If you want to have a criminal justice system it costs money.

"Most experts have charged a lower rate for their legal aid work. Older experts have a sense of duty; younger experts generally have a more modern approach where they think they should be paid a reasonable rate for the job.

"The majority of these [medical consultants] doing their ordinary job are charging £200 an hour or more." The Legal Aid Agency, he added, was also restricting the number of hours they would pay for any consultation.

Nicola Hill, president of the London Criminal Courts Solicitors Association, said: "This is another sign of the damaging impact of the MoJ knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. Expert witnesses, with highly specialised medical knowledge, are crucial in many complex cases.

"They can make all the difference between a secure conviction and an unsafe one. If their goodwill is lost and they increasingly refuse to work at the much reduced legal aid rates, defendants are at risk of unsafe convictions, cases will collapse without guilt or innocence being proven and victims and their families will be denied the justice they deserve."

Good to see the market will provide, and the new generation are displaying that FYGM entrepreneurial tenacity that lifts all boats :thumbsup:

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baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Kegluneq posted:

He's just released a (video) statement on Twitter in which he appears pretty contrite about the whole thing.

There's a world of difference between right wing tabloid criticism of the BBC and how Top Gear represents his attitude. It's very clearly played for laffs (like when Clarkson drives a tiny car into a BBC meeting on environmentalism filled with minorities) and is also self-deprecating.

While it's true that Top Gear's foreign adventures are usually based around them acting like tits and embarrassing themselves and Britain in general, they are actually pretty interesting as travelogues in their own right. They are also generally quite respectful of the people they meet.

That's pretty much the 'my best friend is ~minority~' argument though. Most people who have lovely attitudes about groups are respectful towards individual members of that group, because they're suddenly actual people instead of a faceless mass you can stereotype from a distance. That's why calling them out on their racism is usually met with protestations that they can't be racist, because they get on fine with those people! If anything that proves how objective they must be with their generalisations!

And Clarkson's lol BBC banter might be played for laughs, but not against himself. Driving a tiny car into an environmentalism meeting full of minorities isn't an ironic swipe at the Clarkson persona or the right-wing perception of the BBC. It's obviously a joke but it's still coming from the same place as those legitimate attacks, that's the difference.

Same with all the 'ironic' racism - does anyone really get the impression that they 100% respect all these other national cultures and the people in them, and that they're actually mocking small-minded little englanders? Are jokes about murdering sex workers a commentary on the violence and misogyny in the world, and how our culture normalises it?

big scary monsters posted:

Do you not feel that experts should be paid 'a reasonable rate for the job' then?

It was more a comment on how people are increasingly being encouraged to be mercenary and get what they can, erasing the concept of society and the value and importance of doing public work. So on the one hand they're slashing funding and saying 'oh people will compete in the market to provide this service!' and meanwhile the next generation of service providers are thinking 'gently caress you, my time is worth more than this', as they've been encouraged to, and refusing to take part. The free market strikes again

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Xachariah posted:

If you have a selection of ingredients and toppings on par with Subway then I'm impressed. As it is to get my favourite I'd need to buy the bread, buy a pack of pepperoni, buy a packet of salami, buy the ham, get two kinds of cheese, get a bag of lettuce, chop up some green peppers, slice a cucumber and buy a bottle of hot sauce (that's not too mild/hot).

If everything cost a pound I'd lose £5-6 when I coulda just went to subway. I love Subway.

Yeah but then you'll have the materials to build a cornucopia of sandwiches! And cured meats last forever.

Also if you hit up a supermarket with a deli counter you can buy meat and cheese by weight, so you can just get whatever amount of fancy poo poo you need to make your sandwich and it won't cost much at all. Less convenient than walking into a fast food place and saying 'gimme eat' but it's a good option.

Or you can go to the local market and pick up some mussels and cherry tomatoes and whip up a Sicilian Street Cleaner Special

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

vodkat posted:

But you'll have to have sandwiches every day otherwise some of that food is going to go off.

What, salad and cheese and peppers? I think you'll be able to work them in elsewhere

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Ddraig posted:

I'm conflicted. I do agree for the most part that public protection is one of the few valid reasons to incarcerate someone, but the brazen attitude and the fact that he got away with it for so long rubs me the wrong way. It's vengeful and irrational but, gently caress, for what he did and the lives he ruined it just isn't good enough.

It's not exactly irrational, this is a high-profile event shedding light on a serious problem in society. It's being made clear just how widespread and normalised rape and sexual assault actually is, so the way society responds is important in moving forward and eradicating it. When it's so widely reported and ends up with a slap on the wrist, it sends a message that what he did wasn't that serious.

Justifying it by saying they're bound by the law at the time of the crime sends a similar message, that it was more ok to assault women and girls then than it is now, like there's some kind of fluid, subjective morality underlying these cases. This is really problematic with rape obviously, given how much people like to argue "that's not rape" and victim-blame, and how so many people feel it's ok to cross those boundaries in the first place. So it sort of feels like it's normalising those cultural problems in some ways, even if there are legitimate reasons why the consequences couldn't be greater

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT


Four legs good, two legs bad! IT'S HAPPENING

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

He probably thinks they're 'mixing it up a bit' and 'keeping it fresh' - like when you throw pasta into the air from behind your back instead of just putting it in the pot, except 9 times out of 10 you end up making a mess of the kitchen :iiaca:

He probably enjoys their approach to tax though, and they'll probably let him keep his immigrant workers since they're Doing A Job No Brit Is Willing To Do, so he'd be quids in.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

That was a view echoed on Nick Robinson's 'tour of people who are anti-EU for some reason'. Magically everyone he interviewed was anti-immigration, even immigrants themselves who said that exact same line. It was ok when we did it, Britain needed us to work (there was no unemployment then y'see), but now there's just no room!

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

kapparomeo posted:

Given what they've been getting in the mail lately, mud-slinging is probably a mild euphemism! I wouldn't call it an elitist conspiracy but nonetheless I don't think it's controversial to say that there's an organised crowd who are dedicated to harassing UKIP over and above other parties.

That's not what mud-slinging means though

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Spangly A posted:

There really weren't many healthcare providers in the entire world better than the NHS and I can think of precisely none that were free bar prescription. It was also 4th-6th most efficient fairly consistently.

And then we hired a guy to lend "international expertise" who previously worked in the country that ranked below Serbia and one place above Iran in the WHO tables.

This is pretty disingenuous - he may have worked in the US, but not in public healthcare. He worked for a major private health corporation whose mission was to hamstring and destroy public healthcare, and that's been going pretty well!

This is the problem with all this "some people have it worse than you" talk - that's irrelevant, the point is things should be a lot better than they are. We're one of the world's richest* and most powerful countries, shot through with ill-gotten wealth and hurtling along on historical momentum. We've had more of an opportunity to build a strong and fair society, and the social institutions that go with it - and we actually did build a lot of those things, people fought for those changes, and instead of moving forward we're actually rolling it all back.

What does the UK have to offer really, globally? A highly educated, skilled and experienced workforce? Cheap or high-tech manufacturing? We're a small nation moving more and more towards a service industry, pricing people out of education, punishing people who are unable to work, increasingly propped up by our ridiculous financial sector and its associated network of tax havens. Instead of investing in the country and developing modern infrastructure, we're selling everything off cheap and spending more by asking private companies to do the same job less efficiently for a higher cost, while everything else is left to rust.

There's going to be gently caress all left, and at some point we're going to have that cartoon moment where we look down and realise the ground disappeared a long time back, and we've been trucking along on thin air ever since. Rebuilding all these important social institutions won't just be expensive and time-consuming, they might actually become impossible when Britain isn't at the big table anymore. It's these wasted opportunities that people are mad about

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Thrasophius posted:

It really does make me sick watching it begin to ail like it is when it is preventable. It's all well and good the government saying "austerity" when they no doubt have private healthcare themselves but it royally fucks over the average Joe. As mentioned by you guys the sheer waste of resources and bad descisions is ridiculous.

Not only do they have private healthcare, many of them own private healthcare companies, or at least have financial and business links to them.

This is the thing, those 'bad decisions' are actually good decisions if your interests are aligned with the erosion of the NHS, and replacing as much of it as possible with private providers. It's not incompetence at work here, there's a concerted effort to roll back all of the effort building a public, state healthcare institution, just like with privatising everything else in the name of small government and private-sector efficiency.

You can give the benefit of the doubt and say that people truly do believe the free market will make things better, in the face of all historical evidence to the contrary - and some will, even if many others stand to directly profit from it. But either way, the common thread is that they're both pushing for this to happen. They want the NHS dismantled and replaced. There's a lot that could be done better in the NHS as it is, but cutting funding and vaguely saying 'better find some way to make that money stretch further' is not safeguarding and improving the NHS by any measure - it's starving the beast, until the day they look sad and say 'looks like we've gotta put it down :('

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Ohhhhh, so 2 AM is when all the balance/extreme leftist bias occurs

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Rigged Death Trap posted:

In the end though, we are slaughtering them. And it really shouldnt be an issue how so long as it's not cruel and unusual.

Funnily enough it never is an issue (and nobody cares about the details so long as it's cheap) until someone suspects another culture is being respected somewhere

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

^^^ I'm really drat glad that wasn't what you edited out, I want answers

SybilVimes posted:

These articles are click bait, the premise is that they know 100k, 120k, 250k is an 'absurd' amount to be saying 'we're poor' with, they want you to be outraged that someone could be so out of touch, and thus click on the link, then share it with all your friends.

I wonder if there's a group with even more money than that who really do think these people are struggling, and they share these articles to laugh at the pretentious paupers with their airs and graces, who don't even own a property in Monaco

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

El Scotch posted:

I assumed you were a dude, my bad.

You mean your mad. Your man bad. It's man time in the man lab

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Seaside Loafer posted:

Well no but from a big newspaper?!?

Ad revenue is where they make their profits. You didn't think they were in it for the honest and in-depth journalism, did ya?

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

(Conservatives do some wacky batshit thing where everyone votes again and again until the right chap wins more than half the vote).

It's the AV preferential system except you get to keep coming back for more champers - the plebs would never understand!

Bonus material: Cameron was actually in second place after the first round of voting. Remember this guy?

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Cameron isn't going to do gently caress all - even if THE GLORIOUS AND MOST HALLOWED EU REFERENDUM, YEARNED FOR SINCE THE DAWN OF HUMANITY happens he'll be arguing to stay in. The most he's likely to get are things Merkel is down with (like eroding workers' rights), there isn't really anything to force a compromise with

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

shrike82 posted:

Why the gently caress does it cost 300 pounds for a student visa to the UK?

Because £_£

Also if you try coming over here I'm voting UKIP

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Everyone can order a pizza with halal chicken on it too

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

*appoints head of the Met's counter-terrorism unit to lead investigation*

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Pissflaps posted:

No I don't think that was it and I don't think it has been.

And I thought it was Ofsted, not the DoE, performing an investigation.

It's both
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/15/police-chief-counter-terror-officer-islamic-schools-plot-birmingham

quote:

Chris Sims, chief constable of West Midlands police, condemned as "desperately unfortunate" the appointment of Peter Clarke to look into allegations of Islamic fundamentalists infiltrating schools.

Peter Clarke, who served as head of the Metropolitan police's counter-terrorism unit and led the investigation into the 7/7 London bombings in 2005, has been asked to examine claims made in an unsigned and unverified document, circulated in Birmingham and beyond, boasting of an plot named Operation Trojan Horse.

quote:

West Midlands police are investigating fraud claims linked to a primary school named in the Trojan Horse letter but decided the letter itself was not a criminal matter. The force was therefore surprised when Gove, without seeking their advice, appointed Clarke to look into the matter.

quote:

Clarke is due to report back with his findings in the summer. Ofsted is not expected to publish inspection reports into the 15 Birmingham schools until after Easter.


And the council are running their own investigation too:

quote:

Clarke's appointment as education commissioner also revealed tensions between the Department for Education (DfE) and Birmingham city council, which on Monday announced its own independent adviser to look into the Trojan Horse claims, working alongside two separate panels made up of MPs, councillors, police and faith groups.

Dismayed at Gove going over his head, the leader of the council, Sir Albert Bore, said Clarke's background could "undermine the confidence of our communities".

So despite Ofsted and the local authority running their own investigations, as well as the regional police force, the DfE has seen fit to appoint a counter-terrorism specialist to perform his own special investigation. Completely reasonable, well within Gove's remit

baka kaba fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 10, 2014

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

spikenigma posted:

Err, no. :what: He appointed a retired senior police officer, who was head of the counter-terrorism unit 6 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Clarke_%28police_officer%29

Oh right. Wow, what a coincidence! You hire a guy to investigate an 'Islamic plot to infiltrate schools' and it turns out he just happens to have headed the Met's counter-terrorism unit before he retired! What are the odds!

You should let the chief constable of West Midlands police know about this game-changing information, he'll be happy to discover he's completely mistaken and worried over nothing

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

SybilVimes posted:

Were there this many right wing racism-orientated parties in the last EU election? I'm pretty sure I remember it being Lab, Lib, Con, UKIP and BNP and that's it, now we seem to have 5 or 6 parties pandering to the 'dem muslims :bahgawd:' vote

(part of me hopes it splinters the votes enough to damage the UKIP representation, but its still scary)

I don't remember the general racism and xenophobia being such a big part of the national conversation though, although maybe I'm just blocking it out. The whole 'dem islams, dem immigants' angle has massive currency, the major parties are all trading on it and the media is running with it. Everything's just shifted in that direction, it's a symptom of how poo poo things are

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Answers Me posted:

It somehow passed me by (or I'd gladly forgotten) that Nick Griffin was an elected MEP until I saw this in the suggested videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE6u9OCPK1Y

How the hell did that happen? :negative:

'Protest vote'

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

The weird thing is a bunch of them are pretty obviously webcam footage, so the whole thing looks like some internet project. Record yourself reading out this poo poo, and you'll be a superstar! I also feel sorry for a lot of them, they're really young and I bet some of them have no idea what they've become a part of

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

If you want a more cynical take, customer redefines the relationship, so instead of being about a public servant fulfilling an obligation to members of society, suddenly it's more of a business contract that both sides are entering into voluntarily. That way it's much easier to talk about 'savings' through shirking your commitments, or to frame people as unwilling to hold up their part of 'the deal'. Some customers just come in to browse, you know? (As opposed to a 'client' which implies an actual established working relationship, and some responsibility to provide what they need.)

Like Sybil says, it's not just marketing-speak - it's a way of altering the perceptions of the people who work there, encouraging them to see their role in a completely different way and internalise all these poo poo attitudes.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Trickjaw posted:

All very much more PROACTIVE* and emotional language, so aside from being patronised you get guilted too

*I hate this word, as it is a non word. You are active or not.

That's sort of the same thing to me - call it PROACTIVE, and they've done their part. They've encouraged you to do more and meet targets! If that's not what happens then it's all your fault, you must be slacking/resisting/failing somehow, against the proactivity

Any mention of Mr Men immediately makes me think of these though

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1SM813W6H36YA

quote:

If '1984' or 'The Trial' had been a children's book, Mr Messy would be it. No literary character has ever been so fully and categorically obliterated by the forces of social control. Hargreaves may well pay homage to Kafka and Orwell in this work, but he also goes beyond them.

...

The book ends with a dry reminder from Hargreaves that just as with the secret police in some totalitarian regime, our own small expressions of uniqueness and volition may also result in a visit from these sinister suited agents.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

Anyone who tries to get on Murdoch's good side (ie at the moment the SNP & Tories, as far as I'm aware) should be aware that doing so means you must be totally ready to bend over and accept a full on media campaign for 0 hour contracts, which is what most of the backroom staff at The Times/Sky News are on.

Soon it'll be nothing but citizen journalists (i.e. whatever they find doing the rounds on social media) with a permanent WE CANNOT VERIFY THE AUTHENTICITY OF THIS VIDEO graphic burning into your newfangled 'flat screen' televisions.

How was it there, anyway? I always avoided that channel like the plague, and they still employ the dynamic shitehawk duo, but whenever I've seen it recently it's been surprisingly decent, going into depth and taking some critical stances on the official lines. Is there a selective Murdoch line everyone follows, or is it just full of renegades and rebels?

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Ddraig posted:

As we know, students now have free tuition, babies have more incubators and ARE BOYS have proper body armour because all politicians mean what they say, especially with elections so close.

Remember that referendum had already been funded, so giving body armour to babies wasn't even an option and they're morally in the clear! They were just sayin', you see

I hope someone runs those exact same ads against Cameron and the kippers if they keep banging on about an EU referendum

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

I dunno about upper management being told what to do, I wasn't there for very long, but down on the floor we just tried to do the best, fastest (hence the Never Wrong For Long First For Breaking News tagline) but it was pretty galling when they were doing features on zero hours contracts going "hey email us with yr opinions" and I'm there like "uhhh I am on 0 hours I work at that desk just off camera".

But I don't think anyone gives a poo poo about the Murdoch's opinions, everybody trying their hardest Not To Get Fired and not have the channel shut down, as it's basically a pit into which BSkyB pours money for no tangible gain. Here's a good blog piece by another ex-Sky bod http://fryingpanfire.com/2010/06/skys-the-limit/


(by "strong-willed stakeholders" read "total pebbledicks")

I guess I really meant to ask if the editorial line follows Murdoch's agenda, and all the critical analysis is a calculated way of positioning themselves, that gets dropped when it would conflict with Roop's interests? Or is it down to the ground-level management saying "I don't give a gently caress, we report the news here!". Because it honestly seems more Mirror than Sun sometimes, and during the floods it seemed to be the only channel even questioning dredging and suggesting it was government spin. I was having a lot of double-take moments

Is it me or is that blog post implying that people's opinions of Burley and Boulton (i.e. they're poo poo) are based on one isolated incident each? Stockholm syndrome?


DesperateDan posted:

It's damaging, but it won't sink fartrage. Too many brits would probably nod along to the whole idea of judging where people come from as fine, just so long as they don't openly pick on "the blacks". That's racism in Britain today, attack any facet of race bar colour of skin, and it just doesn't register as racism to so many :(

It's a good, solid kick to the danglies though, and it sure cheered me up :)

On the other hand, any amount of public criticism is good, especially when it's directly calling him out on his own lies and hypocrisy, letting him spit out unconvincing, unprepared answers and putting the straight-talking Farage myth on shaky ground. Especially good when you're really well-prepared like this guy was, all the facts at hand and the arguments thought out. Just pursuing a thread and not letting him wave you off with a deflection or some attempt at 'we don't know if that's true' is a novelty.

It sure isn't going to convince everyone, but hopefully it'll at least give certain people second thoughts about exactly what this guy is selling, and if he is trading on racism and xenophobia instead of facts and legit criticisms. And racism doesn't go away on its own, it takes people calling it out and shining a light on those attitudes, so this is at least part of the process of making his poo poo unacceptable (and everyone else's). Get some cognitive dissonance brewing!

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT


How the gently caress does that argument even fly? Whenever there's a privatisation proposal it's always backed by some report that suggests that - get this! - the private sector could increase competition and innovation and improve outcomes! Even ignoring that this doesn't happen, the proposals are the exact same poo poo every time, but they're always presented and reported as some novel idea that's the result of fresh thinking and serious analysis.

"A Department for Bears consultation paper published last month argues that making GBS threads in the woods will encourage innovation and improve outcomes for bears."

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

HortonNash posted:

The thing is the private companies employed to provide child protection services will just hire all the newly redundant council staff on shittier contracts, and claim "See, SAVINGS!" whilst trousering huge sums for themselves. It's exactly what happened with the PCTs. There simply isn't some huge pool of private child protection professionals waiting to jump in.

Notice also that the councils retain all liability for the service provision, even when handed over to G4S.

Yeah for real, it never works and the reality is always a reconfiguration that's just worse in every way, but what I mean is the story is the same every time. They're saying 'we think this is a good fit for this scenario', but they say that about everything because that's their ideological position. Is there's even a need to pretend there's some researched basis for these proposals anymore? It's not like they get challenged on selling off public services like it's a closing-down sale


Ddraig posted:

That's an interesting study. How does the Pope feel about it?

The Pope is in the running to take over the private ownership and management of the woods, as he brings international expertise to the position

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Spangly A posted:

Michael Gove really needs to not be allowed around positions of authority.

Exactly what is his authority? I mean I thought he was just the head of the Department for Education, but lately he's been commissioning counter-terrorism experts to conduct special investigations into ISLAM PLOTS without even discussing it with the police (or any of the other people currently investigating the matter), and now he's apparently responsible for social services as well

I mean this really is a scarily accurate cartoon:

In another time he'd have been a feudal prince running his fiefdom into the ground, ignoring all his advisors and making decisions based on his own whims, and riding out to blame the poors

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Peel posted:

There's surely large sections of the Conservative party who agree that UKIP aren't racist because they sympathise heavily or outright agree with them, though I agree that wouldn't by itself explain a rhetorical stance from a senior minister.

Well yeah - they're all trading on this to some degree, the coalition is pretty much leading the charge when it comes to demonising immigrants and fostering this public atmosphere of fear and mistrust and 'something must be done'. Branding UKIP as 'not racist, just taking [acceptable attitudes] a little too far' lets the Tories deflect from the connotations it has for them, and it also positions them as a natural choice for hoovering up all those UKIP supporters who are a little uncomfortable with the idea of being xenophobic

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

XMNN posted:

"They're not racist, they just hate people who are different to them!" is not a particularly compelling argument.

I bet Eric Pickles likes to tell everyone about the distinction between ephebophilia and paedophilia, as well.

Yeah but look at the language used - 'Nigel Farage, Ukip's leader, has preyed on people’s fear of immigration in a “shameful” way'. This way the people with the fear of immigration aren't wrong in their beliefs and attitudes, they've just been taken advantage of! Saying that UKIP are manipulating people with an actual racist approach means guilt by association - racism isn't based on rationality, it's based on pure prejudice, so saying that people are being won over by racism implies that their own attitudes are rooted in it.

But casting it as those acceptable, rational fears and beliefs amped up to an extreme, completely disassociated from racism, gives people licence to keep on keeping on. You get to say those people sure do have a point, and criticise UKIP for just taking it too far. Whereas racism is unacceptable on any level. That's the difference.

It may be complete poo poo but that seems like the political calculus behind saying it

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Playing devil's advocate a second, is there any research that points to memory and accurate recollection of events improving after 48 hours, when the subject has undergone extreme stress or is in a state of shock? I know memory goes to pot very rapidly after the event, but I didn't want to just assume that holds for extreme situations where decompressing might actually help. (I'm guessing it still makes things worse)

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

ThomasPaine posted:

I understand some of the arguments for wanting out of the EU, and I'm sure a UKIP government would achieve that

I really don't know about that. As a party with zero chance of actually gaining parliamentary power, it's nothing they'll ever have to get pragmatic about, but they're also a party of business interests. EU membership brings a lot of advantages (the upper ranks of the party have been enjoying the benefits of immigration lately too), and just pulling out would be a damaging move, especially when you look at their other attitudes to policy - this ain't a party concerned with a nuanced economic transition to a strong, independent and self-protecting nation.

It's like Cameron, he can bang on about HUMANITY'S REFERENDUM IN OR OUT but he doesn't actually want Britain out, he just wants certain aspects changed. The goodies are just too good for the kind of society and interests he wants to support. A referendum voting out (and any other showing of public support) gives him something to threaten the rest of the EU with, and that's why it's even better for Farage - he'll never have to act on it, he can just stoke the flames

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

^^^ It'll be a bubble the moment the Tories lose the general election and the 'recovery' is going on under someone else

Boing posted:

I do work on memory psych and witness testimony and there's no evidence to this effect. The forgetting curve for accurate recall can be steep or shallow situationally but it always goes down.

I knew people here knew stuff about things! So yeah, 'the current system gives the best evidence' is definitely :clegg: in every way, no surprises there. Cheers boing

baka kaba fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 19, 2014

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baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Pfizer? I barely knew her!

quote:

With Pfizer's bid for AstraZeneca on the ropes tonight, investment bankers face missing out on some pretty lucrative fees.

My colleague Rupert Neate has been investigating; and found that banks, lawyers, accountants and PR firms could have shared up to £345m for advising Pfizer on the deal. That's based on the typical model where advisors receive 0.5% of a deal's value.

A top banker's share of the pie could have been several million pounds.

The PR contract along would have been pretty lucrative, as Rupert reports:

A senior PR executive at a different firm said Brunswick chairman Alan Parker would be "devastated" at the collapse of the deal. "The contract would have been in the high hundreds of thousands into seven figures," the PR man said.

"They will be devastated by this, it would have made up a meaningful part of the bonus – it would be the difference between getting a Ferrari or not."

:qq:

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