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SedanChair posted:drink it, don't talk about it In college the best drinking game was always Drink The Beer.
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May 7, 2014 06:38
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Babylon Astronaut posted:But if you want a sugar cane based liquor that hates you as much as you hate US politics I recommend cachaça, the moonshine of rum. I'll fight you for insulting cachaça, it's such a happy drink.
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May 7, 2014 06:58
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Pope Fabulous XXIV posted:No, I went, but my school was so underfunded I turned out bisexual. Obama's America. 
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May 11, 2014 03:36
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Zeno-25 posted:Anecdotal, but as someone who was friends with several engineering majors/attempted majors, it seemed like the rigorous math requirements are an insurmountable barrier for some. Especially the higher calculus courses. As someone that's been bad at math since long division, I can admire anyone that makes it over those hurdles. Also anecdotal, but I feel like the way math is taught in America renders the whole learning process into a 'sink or swim' situation. If you can do the coursework without too much aid from the teacher you're fine, cause the teacher sure as gently caress is not going to stop and help out anyone struggling. Once you've shown that you cannot keep pace you end up getting pushed back into the 'remedial' maths (which, ironically at my high school, was a consumer math class that taught you how to do your taxes and open a bank account and whatnot) and are forever doomed to just never understand math unless you go through the motions on your own.
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May 14, 2014 01:39
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:I feel like I am not understanding the cultural dynamics in deep red states, having never lived in one. What kind of satisfaction are people there deriving from extremely conservative policies? Have you ever seen someone (darker than you) cry or get hurt or receive some kind of comeuppance for their 'transgressions'? Have these experiences left you somewhat aroused? If yes, then welcome to the republican party!
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May 14, 2014 04:45
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computer parts posted:Nope, several conservative states are white as snow so racial logic doesn't work on them. Install Windows posted:Yeah in a lot of those places people easily go decades without seeing a black guy except on TV. I can see why you'd think that, but you don't actually need for minorities to be around in order to otherize the gently caress out of them. Actually, it helps a ton when your only working examples come from mainstream media and your own racist family members.
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May 14, 2014 06:52
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Rockopolis posted:I don't normally drink. Y'all are making me start again. What is the point of this post?
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May 14, 2014 18:34
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:My Safeway is unionized Aren't most Safeways unionized?
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May 15, 2014 22:03
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Fried Chicken posted:Apparently no one has turned out for Operation American Spring, or the 30 million are really good at hiding. Nah, I'm in DC right now and it's pretty nice out. Perfect day to march en masse in your klan outfit because it's not swamp-hot either.
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May 16, 2014 17:09
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sejoonki posted:Which is why I am asking, is there anything constructive that can be done within the party to push positive change? No, not really.
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May 20, 2014 15:53
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Bizarro Kanyon posted:English CC standards came out next after Math so there has been less time to argue about that. Also, English is somewhat open ended anyway so a switch to literature that is non-fiction non-narrative does not seem like a big deal. The kids are still reading and writing, they are just reading and writing different things. Wait, so what are students reading if classes are focusing on non-fiction non-narratives? What's the point of teaching English if we cut out narrative fiction? How to write for tests?
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May 21, 2014 20:44
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Robviously posted:The split in K-6 is 50/50 informational text to literary text, iirc. Most people probably aren't realizing what's in the standards because informational reading isn't being taught well enough right now. Who'd have thunk.. Alright, I envy kids for getting such robust and varied coursework from such an early age.
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May 21, 2014 22:47
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Fried Chicken posted:She's the daughter of a sitting state senator, in case anyone really wanted to know how she pulled it off. Daddy provided the money connections and organizers to get her in So there's a strong likelihood that she'll just be her dad's stooge?
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May 22, 2014 02:45
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Fried Chicken posted:I expect this article will have a lot of people talking, so linking it here. The Case for Reparations by Ta-Nehisi Coates I nabbed a copy of The Atlantic from my neighbor just to get my mum to read the article. This poo poo's good, but I don't know what more to say about it because I'm not really the kind of person who needs convincing about why reparations (or even an inquiry into reparations) would be a good thing for this country. How do you propose we facilitate a discussion about it? Actually, here's a question, why should white people care and why shouldn't they continue to refuse to consider the long-lasting effects centuries of discrimination has had on America's black people? Racial discrimination in the country goes across party lines and white liberals are as complicit as white conservatives if we can agree that American society was built to benefit white people before everyone else, so even if you're a good little lefty your voice would be appreciated. IMO, the important takeaway from the article is that class-based progressive movements will solve very little of the social ills plaguing black people (and are actually just subtle attempts to brush our dirty racial reality under the carpet  ).e: TBH very little of what Coates discusses or proposes is all that radical or unreasonable, but no doubt it will be portrayed as such. That's the sad thing. He's really just asking for America to face its (ongoing) history of abuse directed towards blacks. e2: The comments section for the article in question is disabled... for good reason. Browsing the comments section for articles talking about Coates' piece and I've seen mostly people talking about how their ancestors fought for the Union in the Civil War and therefore they should be exempt from even considering reparations (which is blatantly disregarding Coates' focus on the recent history of discrimination & racist state-backed practices rather than the 'bygone' evils of slavery). It's loving frustrating, man. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 06:51 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 06:37
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Money cannot guarantee that African Americans will be free of racism in the future (if anything, you'd expect the opposite in the short term). quote:And even ignoring complaints by whites that "they played no role in slavery, so why should I pay?" on account of their privilege, historical economic profiting, and the lack of bias against them, what do you do about other races? A system of reparations to African Americans necessarily begs the question as to how we should treat other races who have been harmed by the actions of whites. Ehh, on one had I'd argue that other races have not been treated near as bad as blacks (and the statistics show it), but on the other hand white people should probably consider giving back to the multitude of non-whites who have been systematically disenfranchised by the existence of white society. However, this question really disregards the fact that America was built on the exploitation of blacks before all else (Native Americans were/are also pretty hosed, I don't even know where to start with them). We are the bottom of the social totem pole and have been since the first black family was torn apart by slavery. quote:Do we spare them the cost of reparations? Should whites pay them reparations for the lesser (or nearly equal if not greater in the case of Native Americans) as well? (I mean, if we accept the principle of reparations, the answer to both questions is yes, but it admittedly complicates the situation to those on the fence) Yeah probably. Though opening the door by combating the endemic white-on-black racism might lead to combating white-on-Native America/Asian-American/Hispanic-American/Indian-American/Arab-American racism. quote:There are a lot of moral complications here, but it certainly would not hurt to at least study the idea of reparations if nothing else, because even talking about it would force America to address its racial issues. There is only a moral complication here if you're willing to overlook that non-whites, and blacks in particular, have fared way worse than whites. We can point to concrete examples from history and on-going events that show just how toxic white society is for non-whites. The only moral complication that I can see is white people feeling bad about their actions and the actions of their forefathers and the messed up foundations upon which America is built. But yeah, I agree, just having the conversation be taken seriously on a federal level would be a huge step forward. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 07:06 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 07:02
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absolem posted:Not to overstate the importance of this fairly unpopular argument, but why don't we go ahead and implement this at the same time we borrow N. Korea's "3 generation" policy? I fail to understand how anyone could rationally conclude that people who have done nothing wrong ought to pay to make up for some of our ancestors atrocities. Also, this essay could have been half as long if the author had not included so much useless emotional content and restricted himself to actual arguments for his position (of which there are unfortunately few). The poor man spent most of the essay baiting the reader's emotions, a bit outlining wrongdoing, a bit referencing historical reparations, and almost no time at all on any sort of logical persuasion as to why reparations would be a virtuous policy to advance (or how to do so, which is almost as important). Did you read the article or are you just blinding yourself to the fact that Coates actually argued that reparations would be a step towards breaking down America's systematic racism because it would be addressing said systematic racism (something that we have only done in half-measures at most)? Heck, he mentions a congressman's efforts to get the federal government to research the possibility of reparations as a concrete action that we might take as a nation. As for the emotional appeals, well, some people have these things called feelings and occasionally they deign to feel bad about those in dire straights even though those people may not look like them. It's crazy, yeah, I know, but who would think relating personal experiences with racism would be relevant to discussions about racism?
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May 22, 2014 07:15
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Yes. I think Putin It In Mah rear end has it right, in so far as I think that calling it reparations can only happen after America resolves to right historical wrongs and tackle the racism issue head on. I think it's misleading to think that the latter can encourage the former in the short term. Why is it misleading? quote:Yeah, I never meant to imply that other races were treated as bad as blacks, so much as the ethical question as to whether those who have benefitted less due to other forms of institutional racism should pay for the sins of the ones who came out on top. Progressive racial taxation? Well, it's not as if we would be going around to every household and personally taking taxes from people to pay for reparation efforts. The federal government does tons of poo poo with our tax dollars that will never in a million years directly benefit me, but I wouldn't ask the government to stop taxing me for these things (for the most part). This is kind of a non-answer, I guess. Progressive racial taxation would be hilarious to see as actual policy, but so would doling out reparations. I think the only concrete benefit we can derive from the reparations conversation would be that we are actually talking about and acknowledging American society's really racist foundations, I doubt that this country would ever give a single cent to blacks. quote:Which we need to address in the same way as we need to address endemic white-on-black racism. But I suspect that there will be resistance if we can't fix everything in one fell swoop. Just because America will be minority-majority in the long run doesn't mean that you can't cobble together a majority to oppose reparations to African Americans alone if you can't sweeten the pot for other minorities to get to that majority. I can easily see latent racists trying to split other minorities and get them on the side of the "oppressed white people" by scaring them into thinking they'll be paying for wrongs they (as a race) never committed. Well we'd just have to plow ahead because America's never fixed a single thing in one fell swoop. It's ridiculous to hold back progress because we cannot take a giant leap forward, little steps are good too. If talking about reparations seriously causes a new spate of race riots, with other races jumping in with whites in their outrage, then we're in a way more hosed up situation than I had initially thought. But, then again, latent racists will always exist and I'd rather not cater to them. quote:Oh I was referring to the ethical complications on account of the fact that racism is not just white-on-black racism, but is a complex web of relationships, Asians as the "good ones", Mexicans as "the new menace", nevermind the fact that American Indians have literally been written off into special reservations. If you address only the first, you have to answer the question "to what extent do other races have to pay?" Well, we can focus on multiple things at a time as a nation. Why couldn't we look at dismantling the perception of Asians as "the good ones" and Hispanics as "the new menace" while trying to help out blacks? Why does everything need to be done all at once or not at all?
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May 22, 2014 07:26
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StealthArcher posted:E: reading that sounds like a "too hard let's not", which it isn't. Just a sad admission of no ability to think out a means of making the repairs necessary. Well it's kind of the same thing, and still an easy cop out for white people to take. Yeah it's hard to grapple with how we can dismantle white society/supremacy, but actually what is so hard about that? This something I'm asking you, goon to goon, why do you feel you are unable to contribute? comradecosmobot: I actually forgot to factor in the obvious politicking that would go on. Yeah, you're right that conservatives would fight anything reparations related tooth and nail, but don't they already fight anything racial tooth and nail? The opposition will always be there, gently caress there is opposition for desegregation today, in 2014, from conservatives. Why stymie efforts by fretting over the GOP? Granted, I'm not a politician so I know I am approaching this with a palpable level of naïveté. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 07:52 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 07:45
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SickZip posted:The article is borderline nonsensical if you think that he's not calling for all sectors of white america to suffer a bit White people will inevitably suffer when (if) white supremacy is dismantled because they will no longer be the privileged class. Yeah, sure this might suck if you're riding high on white privilege, but suck it up. There is no real way we can throw out or confront our nation's systematic racism without making white people uncomfortable and occasionally suffer. Sorry, it's not fair, but neither is benefiting from racism.
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May 22, 2014 13:32
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Monetary reparations would be nice, but let's be honest: it will never happen. It is really disingenuous to limit the conversation to that and/or immediately jump to decrying TNC's article based on the assumption that TNC is saying "gimme money, whitey." Reparations could take the form of jobs programs, federal stimuluses for black communities, housing and loan programs, and educational initiatives. But all this would first require White America to realize and state that there is a White America and a Black America, and that the former only can exist by the exploitation of the latter. TNC is asking the country to come out and say "whites have continued to use blacks long after slavery, things are far from equal, and I no longer want to benefit from white privilege." He's pretty clear about that and I suspect the posters saying "but white suffering! But I did nothing! But but but!" Don't care about the issue, are terrified at the thought of confronting their complicity in one if history's biggest (and still ongoing) heists, and are actively seeking to not understand the issue to hide behind ignorance. Much of white America couldn't give to farts about the treatment of blacks; most of white America are loathe to take any steps towards addressing racial inequality. To even get the democrat base to say this/share the sentiment "let's put a significant amount of effort/time/money towards helping close the inequality gap" would be a tremendous step forward, and I think if we had a federal study on how the government might mete out reparations/how reparations might manifest could lead to engaging more liberals/leftists. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 17:50
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absolem posted:I understand that startlingly few of you know anything about economics and that you probably don't care to learn. Poor people did not cause the financial crisis. You can't go around saying X group is at fault for Y or people with A skin color should pay back people of B skin color for the wrongs done to them. We are individuals and are not guilty of the wrongs of people who look, talk, act, or spend like us. So are you denying the existence of a White Society, one which has actively colluded on levels ranging from the individual bashing in some black guy's head to the FHA redlining blacks out of equitable housing opportunities, that puts whites before everyone else?
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May 22, 2014 18:12
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computer parts posted:Actively colluding seems like a strong term. Seems like, but rather accurate if we can believe TNC's evidence.
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May 22, 2014 18:22
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Miltank posted:What if we just took Coates's argument to its logical conclusion and gave reparations of various degrees to the families of wage earners? The logical conclusion to TNC's argument is that the federal government research how to set up a reparations programs (which can be anything from monetary to New Deal-type programs) and white America as a whole acknowledge the awful side of this country's past. You're the one who beelines to reparations = lump sum payment, probably because most people would agree that such a lump sum payment would be ineffective towards combating systematic racism in this country and ultimately an empty gesture. Stop being so disingenuous and willfully misrepresenting the essay.
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May 22, 2014 18:36
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absolem posted:I am not denying that whites are priviliged, in general. I am not denying that coercive and later plain stupid policies were implemented. I am denying that those things mean any person who hasn't acted coercively should be held responsible. So we shouldn't hold the society that propagated these coercive and plain stupid policies as responsible? When TNC's making the case for reparations he's not saying individual whites need to abase themselves (poo poo most of the times whites do that it's a self-pitying kind of 'woe is me for being white' kind of thing). You do understand that you are a part of White Society by merit of being born white. The privileges that come with this also means you shoulder the burdens/blame whether you like it or not. Systematic racism sucks and cuts both ways like that.
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May 22, 2014 19:04
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Miltank posted:One class of society had been hosed over by another class of society and is So you are arguing for color-blind, class-based initiatives?
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May 22, 2014 19:17
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Miltank posted:Yes, in conjunction with steps to eliminate race based discrimination in the housing and other high-risk high-impact markets that may exist but I don't know about. Well if you read TNC's article you'd notice how he points out that oftentimes color-blind, class-based initatives, like the New Deal or the nebulous 'Affirmative Action' or FHA or the GI Bill, tend to help white people/already privileged people while minorities, specifically blacks, are cut out. Moreover, as zoux pointed out (and as TNC pointed out and as Lyndon Johnson pointed out) black poverty isn't white poverty. The source of black people falling into and never escaping poverty traps stem from different causes than the causes that put white people into poverty. There is a unique, racial element that must be addressed when we discuss and try to combat inequality between blacks and whites, or would you argue that there is no such inequality and that white people and black people are treated the same in this country? Being color-blind is just as bad as doing nothing (and, at its worst, actively harmful because you deny blacks their fair chance while heaping more benefits onto the white population, increasing the divide) because you are willingly making yourself blind to the racial component that dominates black people's lives. Being color-blind is just maintaining the status quo.
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May 22, 2014 20:03
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Amergin posted:In all seriousness, could you give me some examples of how a color-blind program to help the impoverished might hit the white poor better/more effectively than the black/latino/minority poor? Read the article, Coates provides more than enough examples.
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May 22, 2014 20:04
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absolem posted:All I said was that in cases where banks did not break contracts with the consumer, the consumer is partially at fault. This is true. The consumer is not liable if they had a contract (even an implied one such as the labeling on the medicine or food proclaiming it food or medicine, or to contain certain ingredients) that is broken. You guys are right, the banks are meany pantses, however, so is everyone else. Everything is terrible and everyone is awful and you should know this aren't you adults?? This is an incredibly simple world view, but you seem like an incredibly simple person. No, uninformed consumers are not near as culpable as banks and lenders knowingly selling bad loans.
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May 22, 2014 20:07
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Caros posted:I too wish the US government had decided to let effectiveky every major (and most minor by extension) US financial institution fail. I have always wanted to live in a bizarre road warrior like state. Not to mention how absolutely terrible it would be for the first black president to let these major financial institutions fail. Even if he had just come into office, the blame would be on his shoulders. Jesus. absolem posted:I'm really not comfortable with placing the blame all in one spot, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to you because you seem to exist in a magical fairy world where inequality isn't a thing and every individual is a rational actor with access to all the same tools and information. It's absurd to blame the victims of the crisis when the crisis was largely manufactured by the banks. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 20:27
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Amergin posted:I accept the idea that black and white poverty are different, but to me it's more due to how each arrived in poverty rather than how to help each get out of poverty. If you provide housing, education and a job or assistance in getting a job to the white poor and black poor, why would the white poor benefit more (assuming colorblind hiring, etc - again, I understand this is a fantasy). Alright, assuming that we agree that inequality exists and that the poorest black is many times poorer than the poorest whites we can say so white people start here: [---------X] and black people start here: [X---------] If we give white people and black people the same amount of help, enacting color-blind policies that magically don't lead to black people being shut out then the result will be: [------------------X] for whites and [---------X] for blacks. Still inequality. e: What I find hilarious about this line of discussion is that, though it's not surprising, we must always have to consider white people in everything (why do we have to help out whites when we're talking about addressing racial inequality). You guys cannot seem to be able to do much of anything without yelling "WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE." absolem posted:I do not believe in the social contract. Then do us a favor and go off and live in the mountains by yourself, you're clearly not interested in being a productive member of society. You are a taker, not a maker. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 20:43
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Grapplejack posted:Wouldn't reparations just lead to an even more racist America, where poor whites and middle class whites get really mad about having to pay for their ancestors and lead to more Jim crow poo poo? Wouldn't desegregation just lead to an even more racist America, where poor whites and middle class whites get really mad about having to live alongside blacks and lead to more Jim Crow poo poo? The problem with arguing about how conservatives/regressives might feel if we enact progressive legislation is that conservatives/regressives will always oppose any efforts to drag this country away from a pre-Civil War mindset. Will passing some sort of reparations-like bill that sets up government programs and initiatives and whatever else is deemed 'enough' to pay back/help out blacks lead to some sore feelings from whites? Yeah, no poo poo. White people have stood on both sides of every argument concerning race, so why be surprised that they would continue to do so? Why must we hold back society-at-large while we appease the privileged?
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May 22, 2014 20:57
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BUSH 2112 posted:Well, I disagree with that, because a lot of white people are going to see that as punishment for something that they can't understand having anything to do with, setting off more racial resentment, and continuing the cycle. And, in any case, it shouldn't be about race, it's about class. It wasn't just your average white shithead who owned slaves, it was the super-rich who still enslave the poor in lovely jobs with no benefits. 1/4th of the south's population employed slaves, and not owning slaves did not mean you did not work with slaves as overseers or slave catchers or slave sellers or any of the myriad of positions available in slave society that was Pre-Civil War America. But why are we talking about slavery, TNC spends much of his time discussing the recent abuses endured by American Blacks from the early 20th century up till today with loan officers selling subprime loans to "mud people." And why is it just about class, how can class-based efforts address race-based problems? We have white with criminal records being favored over blacks without criminal records for jobs; blacks making 100k living in neighborhoods that are the equivalent to whites making 30k; blacks being incarcerated at rates that are multitudes higher than the incarceration rates whites suffer from. How can we keep providing examples of black people suffering and people like you continue to crow that it's class holding blacks back, not their race? The blacks who were discriminated against on housing biases in the 50's and 60's and 70's were not necessarily poor blacks, they were hard working members of society who were conned into lovely financial situations because the federal government facilitated predatory housing practices. poo poo, this has happened as recently as 2008 when the recession hit and blacks who had spent the previous 8 years building up their finances, purchasing homes, attempting to create communities, were smacked down hard with foreclosure rates way higher than what whites faced. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 22:38 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 22:34
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Amergin posted:So if I'm a Chinese man who moved to the US 20 years ago and worked my way up to the "rich" class, do I have to pay reparations too? Are you a Chinese man who moved to the US 20 years ago and worked your way up? No? Shut the gently caress up and start positing real questions rather than attempting to distract from the conversation at hand with your idiotic rumblings. What if all white people everywhere decided to kill themselves, would the world be better? What if libertarians tried to start a moon colony, how long would it take till it failed? What if your brain melted and leaked out of your ears, would you stop poo poo posting? This is a trick question because you don't need a brain to shitpost, as evidenced by you.
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May 22, 2014 22:43
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Miltank posted:What on earth would make you think this is true? Destitute is destitute. I'd rather be destitute and white and not have to face racial hatred on top of the normal class problems that comes with being destitute and black. This is what TNC's been stressing, poor blacks are not poor whites, their problems are different, come from different places, and require different solutions. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 23:36
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zoux posted:Yeah but I thought the narrative going this cycle was "establishment GOP beats back Tea Party challengers" and the exact opposite happened here. To be fair, Texas has always striven to buck trends and be its own friggin' place.
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May 28, 2014 15:26
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Well we beat them too, but in a different war.
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May 28, 2014 17:25
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zoux posted:My commencement speaker was bell hooks who blamed 9/11 on America and white parents. I graduated in May '02. I would have loving killed for that.  We had some forgettable old white guy talking about how it's up to millennials to do all the poo poo that boomers and genXer's should be doing. He didn't get much of an applause. He wasn't particularly left leaning at all, but then again the liberal arts school I went to was in the rear end in a top hat of PA and home to some pretty conservative whites.
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May 28, 2014 20:55
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zoux posted:I dunno it was pretty awkward with all the booing and people standing up and turning their back to the dais in protest. But still, man, to have experienced something so crazy at your commencement. At least you can remember your speaker, all I remember about my commencement (which was only 2 years ago FFS) is that it was a rather hot day and my professor/adviser winked at me as I caught him dozing off for a nap. e: Also I remember that the graduation regalia made the professors look like wizards.
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May 28, 2014 20:58
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nutranurse posted:But still, man, to have experienced something so crazy at your commencement. At least you can remember your speaker, all I remember about my commencement (which was only 2 years ago FFS) is that it was a rather hot day and my professor/adviser winked at me as I caught him dozing off for a nap. Oh wait, we got Arnold loving Palmer to speak to us. He was pretty bad.
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May 28, 2014 22:50
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mcmagic posted:Because it's definitely worth making black people all over the country hate your party to win elections in Alabama by 47% as opposed to 45%. As if black people all over the country didn't already hate the conservatives. (Most, anyway). I've always personally held that the staunch support we black people throw behind the D's is a double-edged sword in that they can always count on us to vote for them so they won't really pander to us that much. Can you imagine the political makeup of this country if the right-wing weren't all racists at heart and would try to honestly court black voters? We'd probably not have much of a right wing. 
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May 30, 2014 18:47
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