|
VitalSigns posted:States have the RIGHT to shut the gently caress up and let me have slaves. I am firmly in the camp that you have to be loving kidding yourself to think that slavery wasn't the key element behind the rebellion, but doesn't this clause ban the confederate central government from banning slavery, rather than state governments from banning slavery on their own?
|
#
¿
May 13, 2014 13:04
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 10:47 |
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:POWs, and MIAs for that matter, are the right-wing culture warriors much more valuable as hero-victims at a distance than as real, flawed humans about whom we occasionally learn uncomfortable things (not presuming that Bergdahl will necessarily prove so to be, though he may). While behind the wire (or in caves or whatever other specific captivity they endure) they serve as sublimely noble resistors of The Enemy's barbarism, redeeming through their suffering any wartime crimes that need excusing. Once they come back, well, the hell with any that fail to live up to expectations. This probably sounded cool in your head, but just shut up. This is the most simplistic pseudo-psychology explanation for things. People threatening violence over Bergdahl are loonies. People upset that he hasn't been murdered on TV are loonies. But all evidence points toward him being a deserter. It's very hard to say for a fact that any single death was linked to him, but it's very easy to see that a remote, solitary base that got daily ISR assets due to how remote it was suddenly had zero ISR assets and got nailed by a numerically superior force that would have been trivially easy to detect with even a lovely Shadow up in the air. The Daily Beast article is written by an incredibly intelligent and level-headed person who, despite being an extremely capable Soldier, was never the traditional "meathead" that people think of when they think of light infantry. Those that were actually involved give a poo poo in a very serious way, and not all of them wish anything ill to happen to Bergdahl, but would rather that they finally not have a gag order from the government preventing them from even acknowledging that he wasn't magically teleported out of the base and that he didn't lag behind a patrol that did not exist. edit for article link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/02/we-lost-soldiers-in-the-hunt-for-bergdahl-a-guy-who-walked-off-in-the-dead-of-night.html
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 03:10
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:No, actually, it's a short summation of more than one established study on how the American right deals with POW/MIA issues post-Vietnam. Mike Allen's Until the Last Man Comes Home: POWs, MIAs, and the Unending War in Vietnam and H. Bruce Franklin's MIA, or, Mythmaking in America being only the two most prominent examples I could name off hand. But feel free to be an idiot about it anyway! Those are some cool book titles, but I know several people who got to go search for Bergdahl and got to see their buddies shot up, locals get their villages disrupted and searched and their livelihoods hosed with, watch projects they'd been working on cease to exist or erode away as the local population got pissed about the constant searches for him, and so on. I'm not talking from the standpoint of the crotchety old man on Facebook, but the people who no poo poo had to carry shattered human bodies onto helicopters* *Before some GiPer loses his/her mind, I'm a pogue, but know/work with people who got to attend the funerals of their squadmates who died searching for Bergdahl. edit: joeburz posted:Oh well if yet another soldier says he deserted then obviously he deserted and that's the end of that chapter. You're casually dismissing the psychological explanation given and then saying "welp this guy said it happened this way" without realizing its a hodgepodge of hearsay and assumptions. Being in proximity to him doesn't automatically give them credibility, exactly for the reasons people have listed that you dismiss. If I didn't know the author of that Beast article, I'd likely agree. But I know him and he's not an idiot, and he has very carefully put together an account of the event which he withheld out of respect, for fear that the story might endanger Bergdahl, even after he exited the military. Yes, this is personal bias, fine. I guess the view is even clearer from your computer desk. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jun 5, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 03:20
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:I fail to see how any of that contradicts those, and other studies that I could mention, To clarify, I've no doubt that rear end in a top hat right wing people who have no connection to the military at all get mad about dumb poo poo like POW/MIA without "truly" caring. I also am not a cretin who thinks we shouldn't have even tried to get Bergdahl back. I just think there are some legitimate, very serious gripes to be made by those who have been legally disallowed from saying that Bergdahl is not some hero who got captured, but rather that he's a guy who, for one reason or the other, abandoned his post.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 03:50
|
|
|
eNeMeE posted:So the Beast article isn't that account? Or am I completely misreading that? He didn't say a word until Bergdahl was safely in US hands again. The supposed reason for the initial gag order was to protect the prisoner from mistreatment or murder by his captors.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 09:06
|
|
|
eNeMeE posted:So he wasn't withholding it out of respect he was withholding it because of a gag order. As far as I'm aware, the order is still in effect. But as long as you don't divulge classified info, the floodgates are effectively open now that people know Bergdahl can't be hurt by his captors now. So no.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 18:16
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 10:47 |
|
|
Wolfsheim posted:
He's in a military treatment facility then will have to debrief. So no one knows.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2014 20:57
|
|