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I mean I get that "you've broken your implication" doesn't have quite the same ring to it
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Aug 14, 2022 21:20
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I don't think a single person read that announcement as "Jonathan Tweet will return in 13A2!"
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Aug 14, 2022 21:46
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And yet it promised that about as much as it promised he wouldn't No but seriously, what I'm trying to get at is, if people complain this breaks a promise, someone can just say "we're so sorry for accidentally giving the impression there was a promise" to defuse the complaint. In my view it's better to just complain that it's bad. Which is happening in spades, I don't envy Wade or anyone else this coming work week  e: kinda getting ahead of myself though, because I genuinely did want to know if there was any more explicit statement somewhere I haven't read 
My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 21:56
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Covok posted:Yeah, I don't know who Cat is and I'm sure she's fine. she's a co-owner of Pelgrane Press. just terribly disappointing all around
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Aug 14, 2022 22:01
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They're definitely in a bind. They can't say they never promised anything without underlining that they really should have.
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Aug 14, 2022 22:07
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My Lovely Horse posted:I don't envy Wade or anyone else this coming work week Since a couple of folks mentioned me, I just wanted to say that I stepped away from tabletop RPG marketing a few years ago—balancing a day job in marketing with doing the same job in my free time was seriously burning me out, and my clients deserved better than I could give them. I still do freelance RPG writing and game design because I like it, and I enthuse about 13th Age online because it's still one of my all-time favorite games. It's not my place to speak for Pelgrane or Rob anymore, and my posting about the situation would a) be unhelpful to you and create more headaches for Pelgrane, and b) risk giving the impression that I'm a go-to person for information about 13th Age 2e (which I'm not involved with) and that would be a hell of my own making. I'm genuinely sorry I can't shed any more light on things. Even though I rarely post here anymore this community means a lot to me.
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Aug 15, 2022 04:10
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I appreciate you chiming in! Thank you.
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Aug 15, 2022 04:33
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waderockett posted:I'm genuinely sorry I can't shed any more light on things. Even though I rarely post here anymore this community means a lot to me. I hadn't realized you stepped away and you must have legit pulled some strings after you left to get some really cool poo poo for my players. thank you
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Aug 15, 2022 04:55
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You’re very welcome! I like to help when I can.
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Aug 15, 2022 05:34
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Oh, I see. I hadn't realized either. e: on another note entirely, it actually seems like a good idea to join the playtest program to maybe have a say in heading off any potential throwback design elements at the pass, so to speak. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 05:44
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Thanks for dropping by, man.
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Aug 15, 2022 13:19
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I realize with all the talk of a possible 2nd ed. and the questionable involvement of Jonathan Tweet this may be an odd time to look at 13th age, but if I want to try it out with some friends, do I need anything other than the core book? Any intro adventures to look at?
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Aug 16, 2022 20:18
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Core book will be fine, and it even has a short intro adventure right in it.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:33
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Funzo posted:I realize with all the talk of a possible 2nd ed. and the questionable involvement of Jonathan Tweet this may be an odd time to look at 13th age, but if I want to try it out with some friends, do I need anything other than the core book? Any intro adventures to look at? The game is designed so that all you need is the core book. The adventure Crown of Axis—which I wrote—is designed specifically to be an intro to the game. It has lots of GM guidance in it, and shows off the mechanics that make the game distinctive. For example, you might have heard people talk about using icons during play and the adventure has several instances of "A PC who has an icon advantage with [ICON] could spend it to do [THING] here." It has the advantage of being the most recent adventure published so it takes advantage of the stuff we learned about designing for the system over the years. https://pelgranepress.com/product/crown-of-axis/
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Aug 16, 2022 21:23
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waderockett posted:The game is designed so that all you need is the core book. The adventure Crown of Axis—which I wrote—is designed specifically to be an intro to the game. It has lots of GM guidance in it, and shows off the mechanics that make the game distinctive. For example, you might have heard people talk about using icons during play and the adventure has several instances of "A PC who has an icon advantage with [ICON] could spend it to do [THING] here." It has the advantage of being the most recent adventure published so it takes advantage of the stuff we learned about designing for the system over the years. Thanks for writing that, by the way. My players are about a session away from entering the Eyes of the Stone Thief for the first time rescue Orna.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:40
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waderockett posted:The game is designed so that all you need is the core book. The adventure Crown of Axis—which I wrote—is designed specifically to be an intro to the game. It has lots of GM guidance in it, and shows off the mechanics that make the game distinctive. For example, you might have heard people talk about using icons during play and the adventure has several instances of "A PC who has an icon advantage with [ICON] could spend it to do [THING] here." It has the advantage of being the most recent adventure published so it takes advantage of the stuff we learned about designing for the system over the years. Perfect, thanks!
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Aug 16, 2022 22:23
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also, the SRD is a good reference and includes 13 True Ways https://www.13thagesrd.com
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Aug 16, 2022 23:08
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Things are happening. http://robheinsoo.blogspot.com/2022/08/announcing-13th-age-2nd-edition.html My main two takeaways: quote:I’ve also been seeing speculation and questions about who is working on this book, and whether that team will work on the line going forward. I’m writing a separate post about that to hopefully clarify things. And a new, lengthy bullet point on the flyer that talks about "flexible handling of kin/ancestry abilities and powers" which sounds a heckuvalot like they're about to touch the old races system. See, I like the old races system. Or at worst, I don't mind it. I'm down with versatile humans, hardy dwarves, cruel dark elves and strong orcs. But I'd be strongly compelled by any system that breaks it up and remodels it to be more flexible and maybe pull 13th Age into being more of its own thing than "system of 1000 distinct races" D&D, and my interest is piqued.
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Aug 17, 2022 20:18
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I love that even in that they admit they can't figure out anything to have the rogue do. The rogue is the saddest thing in 13A.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:06
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Night10194 posted:I love that even in that they admit they can't figure out anything to have the rogue do. Honestly, I feel like Martin Killman's "what if rogues were Hawkeye" approach could flesh out regular 13th Age rogues a lot.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:18
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Give Rogues "Flashback tokens" they can spend to do like in Heist movies and reveal that they'd done some prep/planning beforehand.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:41
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my rogue's player had a blast through level 10, but a huge part of that was magic items that were specifically chosen for stunting, like a throwing dagger that you can teleport to, a cloak that gives +3 to jumping/falling checks, a bunch of different arrows for any situation, etc so yeah, we made Hawkeye + back stab back stab was much better with a commander in the party to make sure it hit and hit hard, but momentum was mostly unused. except for the handful times across the entire campaign it saved his rear end, and that's cool, it's really kind of a waste of a feature most of the time
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Aug 17, 2022 21:53
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Night10194 posted:I love that even in that they admit they can't figure out anything to have the rogue do. Merge the Monk into it.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:42
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You know, that's a splendid idea. e: Flashback tokens as one of those class talents that add a whole playstyle, and if you're a particularly monkish rogue it's a flashback to the one of the 36 chambers that prepared you for this very situation
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Aug 18, 2022 10:14
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Break all of Blades of the Dark up into a collection of class powers and talents. - flashbacks to prep time, a limited number of equipment slots that have what you need when you need it - established relationships with several criminal, commercial and governmental orgs (additional icon points with local groups who you invent for every new city?) - electric ghost wizard powers - playbooks become talents somehow, idk I'm just spitballing
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Aug 18, 2022 19:22
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Merge the Monk into it. Monk was fun for a while in the playtest, when they got bonuses for running around the battlefield like an idiot, attacking the wrong target. Then it was fixed so, instead of doing lots of damage for attacking a new target every turn, they were bad at everything. Slapping both mobility based classes together sounds pretty good.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:32
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Rob Heinsoo just posted twice on the new edition to his blog. One on why Tweet is on the new core book: http://robheinsoo.blogspot.com/2022/08/13th-age-2e-same-core-team.html And one on some of the changes in that book: http://robheinsoo.blogspot.com/2022/08/13th-age-2e-more-info.html "Race" is replaced with "Kin", and come with options for their power. Elven Grace has been nerfed to only go off once per short rest, unless the action is passed to another player. Fighters have choices on their maneuvers instead of following dice luck, and some unnamed influence from the Humakti class in the Glorantha book. Changes in encounter math. Stuff like that.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:16
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What a great confirmation that I can safely ignore a new edition.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:25
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"Without Tweet i won't work on 13th age 2e and it withers on the vine" Nah i think I'd rather they move on completely without Heinsoo too if he's going to issue ultimatums requiring his race realist buddy with lovely design ideas to be on the team.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:28
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I believe Heinsoo/Fire Opal is the one who actually owns the game, not Pelgrane, but yeah, I'd prefer if they just moved on rather than work with the two of them if they're a package deal. I won't be purchasing this edition.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:43
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Sounds like good stuff. Never played with a wood elf character but I always had the impression that increasing the die size would balance things; evidently not, but the new way it works is certainly easier to keep track of, too.General Ironicus posted:Elven Grace has been nerfed to only go off once per short rest, unless the action is passed to another player.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:59
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General Ironicus posted:Rob Heinsoo just posted twice on the new edition to his blog. One on why Tweet is on the new core book: http://robheinsoo.blogspot.com/2022/08/13th-age-2e-same-core-team.html Honestly, the fact that he thinks Tweet is necessary to the game's design says bad things about him as a developer, not just 'I need my race realist rear end in a top hat buddy we swore not to work with', because Tweet's contributions to the game's design hurt it.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:03
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My Lovely Horse posted:I think that's "pass on the extra action" as in "don't take it right now even though you could", not as in "hand it over to someone". Found the first phrasing that needs clarification! But if you don’t want the extra action that turn then why roll for it in the first place? I haven’t played a d20 game since finishing a 10-level campaign of 13th Age so I admit I’m out of practice interpreting rules language.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:07
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I guess it'd be easier to just roll every turn by default rather than risk players forgetting they still have their Elven Grace roll, asking to make their Elven Grace roll for last turn because they forgot, waffling over whether to make the roll because of decision paralysis... and most of the time, if you get an extra action, you use it.
My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 21:14
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General Ironicus posted:Rob Heinsoo just posted twice on the new edition to his blog. One on why Tweet is on the new core book: http://robheinsoo.blogspot.com/2022/08/13th-age-2e-same-core-team.html What a loving awful explanation. gently caress this game.
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Aug 18, 2022 22:17
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Maybe I'm poking the bear here but was there ever any proof of Tweet being a racist other than one questionable Twitter post? Because it kind of seems to fly in the face of anything else I've seen him write online. Edit: Thank you, goon below. I managed to miss your previous post. unimportantguy fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 22:57
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unimportantguy posted:Maybe I'm poking the bear here but was there ever any proof of Tweet being a racist other than one questionable Twitter post? Because it kind of seems to fly in the face of anything else I've seen him write online. You can find my post on the last page with more details but the short version is that he doesn't really appear to be racist, just a know-it-all rear end who likes arguing. His original tweet was definitely taken way out of context, and you can see him elaborate further (and get into dumb arguments) here: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pelgrane-press-disassociates-jonathan-tweet-from-13th-age-pelgrane.848931/page-8#post-22694744 CaptCommy fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 23:07
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CaptCommy posted:You can find my post on the last page with more details but the short version is that he doesn't really appear to be racist, just a know-it-all rear end who likes arguing. His original tweet was definitely taken way out of context, and you can see him elaborate further (and get into dumb arguments) here: His blog post where he believes a nurse telling him his African America daughter will mature faster than a white child certainly suggests otherwise on his views on race.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:29
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Covok posted:His blog post where he believes a nurse telling him his African America daughter will mature faster than a white child certainly suggests otherwise on his views on race. Okay but that's not what happened. The nurse told him that, he found it fairly shocking and didn't really acknowledge it and then ended up doing research until arriving at his current conclusion that there are measurable, medical differences between races: https://jonathan-tweet.blogspot.com/2019/07/race-and-evidence.html quote:In 1994 when our daughter was born, a nurse told me that she was physically advanced. I made some joke about my good genes, and the nurse responded by telling me that black newborns tend to be advanced compared to white babies. That response came as a shock to me because it violated expert opinion as I’d learned it. Since this observation contradicted my deeply held beliefs about “race”, I compartmentalized it. Despite the contrary evidence, I still believed that “races” were not just merely social constructs but in fact constructed out of nothing. Thanks to this compartmentalization, it took multiple lines of evidence from different sources and years of mental adjustment before I could see that Gould and Lewontin had simply been wrong. If some of my fellow progressives are angry at me for my views about genetics and human variation, I can sympathize with them because they are the views that would have infuriated me when I was in my 20s. I also feel like if I'm pulling quotes it's only fair to include this: quote:In 1992, I married a black woman secure in the knowledge that humans from all over the world are basically the same, and nothing I’ve learned since then has changed my mind about that. Despite whatever genetic differences there may be from one group to another, a man and a woman from any two places can have healthy, normal children together. The large differences among the “races” are socially constructed differences, while the biological differences are minor. My wife passed away in 2008. I'm not overly interested in defending the dude because I think his methods are fairly stupid in the year 2022. But I also don't really think it's fair for people to call him a 'race realist' either. 
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Aug 18, 2022 23:46
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"I did my research and against expert opinion, there ARE differences between races!" is called being racist, actually.
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Aug 19, 2022 00:13
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