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Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Doctor Bishop posted:

After finally managing to play far enough into Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to get to any of the dungeons past the Great Deku Tree, I have to say that the dungeons are what drag this game down for me. Seriously, the dungeons in Ocarina of Time just have this air of dankness and oppression to them that just progressively sucks the enjoyment out of the game as you realize that each dungeon is just going to be worse than the last and that this is what you can look forward to for the rest of the game.

Really, I love the Legend of Zelda series, and none, none, of the other Zelda games I've played have had such uniformly desolate, oppressive, all-around dungeony dungeons as Ocarina of Time has. Nope, not even Twilight Princess.

I don't get how this is a bad thing. Like, "this game captures an incredibly particular atmosphere in a way that none of the other games in the series does. yeah it fuckin blows"?

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Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Doctor Bishop posted:

Since I accidentally started this discussion, I guess I should go ahead and clarify that my complaints with the dungeons in Ocarina of Time isn't that they don't feel like real places with any purpose beyond being monster-filled labyrinths for testing the skills of would-be heroes, but rather that they're just plain lifeless, gray and depressing spaces that make every task you undertake within them feel less like a fun pastime activity and more like a chore that you only do in order to get yourself one step closer to the end, where you can then fight the boss (the only interesting part of the entire experience along with the miniboss) and get the hell out of that godforsaken dungeon again.





"lifeless, gray" :confused:

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Alteisen posted:

Love how they keep nerfing the good items in Binding of Isaac Rebirth into uselessness while leaving the garbage items alone.

Also the lost is still a horrible lovely character that everyone hates, goes completely against what the game is about and everyone who finished the game with him did so via a glitch that rendered them invulnerable.

The hard mode is pretty weak to, it just starves you of keys and bombs and gives you horrible room lay-outs that in some occasions make it impossible to avoid damage unless you have flight.

Any singleplayer game that receives nerfs on literally anything is the dumbest poo poo I've ever heard of in my life.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

John Murdoch posted:

Balance in singleplayer games, while not as immediately vital as it is in multiplayer ones, is still pretty fundamental to good game design. Even moreso to a game like BoI where the challenge is a part of the appeal.

This is true, but the solution isn't to make things that are fun into unfun things, it's to improve the unfun things so that they're also viable options. Admittedly this is harder to pull off in games where high difficulty is an appeal, but if games like that ship with obvious Best strategies then it doesn't sound like a solidly designed game to begin with. There's also the classic response, just don't do the too strong thing if it takes away from your enjoyment.

e: This isn't to say I disagree with you, I just think that with a few exceptions nerfing is not the best way to get a game balanced.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

MysticalMachineGun posted:

God yes. I want to like that game but the idea is the deaths should feel like your fault most of the time. Some of them are just arbitrary due to the controls.

I got Rogue Legacy a while back having heard a lot of complaints about the controls and I really don't understand it. They're really consistent and I can't think of a single time in the entire game where I thought something was bullshit and out of my control, and I'm not entirely sure what I'm missing or what people had problems with. This isn't a dig at anyone, just legitimately wondering if I just totally missed something.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

I think I found your problem bud

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

SiKboy posted:

Yeah, NV has ... a worse story

wow

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

SiKboy posted:

The actual story of NV is incredibly short. Its a revenge storywhere you get your anticlimatic revenge about a quarter of the way through the games actual runtime. Fallout 3s story is cliche as hell, but at least they remembered to make it last the whole game. Once you have your revenge I had zero motivation to give the shithole city of new vegas to any of the shitlord factions who wanted it. The "Its all shades of gray!" thing falls flat because its southpark-esque "The truth is somewhere in the middle, maybe everyone is as bad as each other!" only realy works in the game if the player believes that slave owning and literal rape is as bad as being an inefficient bureaucrat.

Lol if we can count a game's story ending when you lose interest I guess my copy of 3 shipped with no story at all

Double lol if you thought the game where your first run in with a faction is after they wiped out a major settlement's population presented that faction as morally gray

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

SiKboy posted:

You didnt ever read the SA NV thread did you? I've had this arguement a lot and "shades of gray!" is an inevitable defence of NVs crappy factions.

I especially liked the part where the goon NPCs did this. It's not very often that a game really incorporates completely secondary, post-production audience discussions into its own portrayal of its subject matter.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

J-Spot posted:

I appreciate how New Vegas supports different character builds much better than FO3 but the latter is a much better action game. The thing that drags New Vegas down for me is the poo poo ton of quests where you just ping pong between NPC's and do nothing else of interest. One of the worst offenders is the quest G.I. Blues which has you go back and forth between characters in a giant empty environment that is sectioned off by loading screens. To do the quest "correctly" you have to go find even more NPC's to talk to. It's kind of interesting for exactly one play through since you're going around and investigating stuff, but on subsequent runs the amount of time you waste walking and looking at load screens really stands out.

New Vegas' strength lies in that it doesn't really behave like other games on Bethesda's adaptation of Gamebryo, but it also turns around and works against it in exactly this way a lot of the time too. The first two Fallouts could allow for a lot of quests that involved just running around town and talking to be people without it being too much of a hassle because towns were pretty much all one cell, and your movement speed was fast enough that travel time was trivial. Transitioning that into the NV engine turns that kind of stuff into a huge pain in the rear end even if the quests themselves are interesting because it's applying an older philosophy onto a system that doesn't support it well at all.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Kimmalah posted:

Problem is a lot of those Freeside quests aren't even interesting. They're "hire this guard and follow him across town then report back," "talk to these people in the Mormon Fort and report back to me," "OK now talk to these other people and report back to me." And that's just the Kings stuff. You get a lot of this with the Atomic Wrangler quests too, unless you manage to bypass some of it with skill checks.

Oh, yeah, the Freeside ones suck, I forgot that post wasn't the one that brought up the Outpost quests, which I thought were a little bit more involving.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

muscles like this? posted:

Another annoyance with the crafting stuff is that you can't modify weapons or armor that party members have currently equipped. This is especially bad with Varrick since the only way for his range attack to go up is add ons for his bow.

You can scroll through characters in the crafting menus exactly like you scroll through them in literally every other menu in the game.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

swamp waste posted:

The thing is it's not supposed to be children's entertainment, there are hookers and exploding heads everywhere you turn.

(In a 12 year old's voice) dude check out this game my stepdad got me i can blow up people's heads and gently caress pussy haha

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

death .cab for qt posted:

I completely agree, the game has a tendency to be entirely self-aware and parody action movie poo poo without committing to it. Kinda like the tutorial jokes while being in a lovely tutorial. Having a swear-happy parody of an action hero falls flat when they can't even make the swear-happiness good or funny, just grating. If you're making a game about machismo-in-excess as a punchline, you gotta commit or find a better way to turn the tables on cliches like that. It just existing isn't parody, it has to be grossly overdone or outright mocked, otherwise it's just another bit of lazy genre-reference without payoff

Funnily enough, not understanding how to write parody was base Far Cry 3's problem too.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
I personally enjoyed how Fallout 3 only had three towns of any note. Having all the actual content on the overworld really kept me focused on going out and exploring [leveled loot list subway tunnel #46] instead of faffing about with "interesting quest design" or "memorable NPCs." Who needs it when I can go wherever I want, whenever I want? Power to the players.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Lizard Wizard posted:

When did this happen in Oblivion?

Almost constantly.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Lizard Wizard posted:

Oh, bullshit.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Lizard Wizard posted:

And what quest is she important to?

For someone who complained endlessly during his Oblivion LP you sure are quick to stick up for that terrible game!

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Lizard Wizard posted:

I'm not defending it, just saying that a non-questgiver up and dying does not build a strong case for the claim of "questgivers up and die constantly."

I would wager to say that every quest-involved NPC that isn't marked as essential is at a pretty significant risk of death. It's not like the content you get locked out of is often particularly interesting, but that's a symptom of Oblivion in general, and it's not like the already-barren world needs even fewer NPCs.



Bonus example of the kind of AI that makes this poo poo happen:

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
My thing dragging down Souls games post-DS1: People will now hold each game to stupidly high standards regarding whether art assets are allowed to use any sort of abstraction whatsoever in how they represent space.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

MindlessHavok posted:

You guys complaining about BL2 and their lack of good weapons - did you never use the golden keys/chest? There are easy to find lists online with still active codes that can net you over 100 keys really easily.

I never had a problem with guns/shields/grenades/add-ons because I would just get new ones using this every 10 levels or so.

Golden key weapons were the most boring possible solution to the problems BL2 had with its loot, and while it would generally give you upgrades, they all generally had the same few traits on them, so it was just a numbers solution to a gameplay problem.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
Games that rely heavily on particle effects in their look invariably have no way to dial down the effects, and particle effects of course happen to be one of the more needlessly gpu-taxing effects around right now. I'm not going to pretend that my graphics card isn't aging, but having a 20fps drop from regular gameplay when certain enemies show up is godawful.

A similar complaint from the past: for whatever reason the less-than-a-second footstep sound file for wolves in Oblivion was like 400kb or something insane, and instead of being four footsteps in one file, would just play four times in quick succession whenever a wolf would run. So, on my old computer (a decent one around the time the game launched), I'd go from a pretty okay 40fps or so to about 5 whenever a wolf got near me because my cpu would be hammered by the game loading these way-too-big sound files dozens of times per second. I remember other players finding this a problem too and there being a Nexus upload that reduced+changed the file along with an .esp so it'd only play once, and I never had to worry about it again.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Zaphod42 posted:

Heroes 3, in loving 1993:



Heroes 7, about to come out:



How do you gently caress up so bad when you have 22 years of better technology?!

The bottom shot looks pretty good, sorry the game didn't stick to the Geocities fan site aesthetic over the years.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Zaphod42 posted:

It looks like a "come play my lord" style facebook ad. You need your eyes checked.

They both look like banner ads, one was just made for Angelfire.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
Alouicious is a good poster, actually.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

mind the walrus posted:

For whatever it's worth I'm grateful you're able to articulate this. Most people are condescending prats in their own right like Aloucious.

"gently caress you for sharing your opinion"
"What was wrong with the way I shared it?"
"gently caress you."
"Oh ok then, I'm sure my future posts will be better for you now."

Even now he's only posted anything constructive because you did the mental lifting for him.


If you don't feel like reading a wall of text then skip the gently caress over it. It ain't a sophisticated skill.


Yeah that nerd. He had feelings. He cared about something he experienced. Why not grow a goatee, start dating Winona Ryder, and form a terrible coffee shop band while you're at it? Not caring is the only real sincerity anyway.

Oh, word?

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

HairyManling posted:

some drummer in a dad rock band dressed up as a jester.

This was the target audience for the first game, I believe.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Lizard Wizard posted:

I get what you're saying, but isn't that kind of a moot point when A) most players don't know the Amano art exists, and B) the characters in game are what the player actually sees for 80 hours?

SNES-era RPGs were hardly 80-hour experiences.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
Thing dragging Condemned down: every time I play it I get upset because I remember that no other games have made first-person melee combat with quite the same weight and speed. :smith:

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Morpheus posted:

Zeno Clash and Breakdown?

Zeno Clash owns a lot and gets the weight of it down, but the encounter system is definitely meant for more drag-out fights than every enemy being potentially life and death if you gently caress up. Breakdown I've never gotten a chance to play because I just can't find it anywhere not online and don't want to drag out my Oxbox, but if it's good I may have to.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
I loved Dead Money, the radio timers were a bit short without the follower trait to extend them, but you can just walk out of their range and back in.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Evilreaver posted:

First time I played Fallout NV, I walk outside Doc's and am armed with pocket lint and a few caps. That's what I like, starting from nothing and working my way up. I played on PS3, eventually the save file corrupted. poo poo happens

A few years later Steam has a "Fallout NV and all DLC for :10bux:" sale. Sure, why not. Start it up, walk outside Doc's, and I'm armed with a whole arsenal of weapons, tools, and kit from all the DLCs. Grr.

The preorder DLC is an .esp file like everything else, just disable them.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
BL2 is pretty fun if you use cheatengine to up legendary drop rates to something like Diablo 3 levels. I forget if it also lets you get skill points, but getting enough to reach tier 2 skills right away would make it more engaging too.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
I was unaware that JRPGs without Repel-equivalent items were still getting made after about 1997.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
TF2's extra weapons have been balanced a lot since their release and are all in really good places now. Combined with hotjoin by game mode being a thing now, TF2 is really good now even if the playerbase isn't as strong as it was at release.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Xinlum posted:

Too bad every game you join will be 4 snipers, 3 spies, 2 engineers minimum.

This has been the case in literally every version of Team Fortress.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
For a party-based RPG, Arcanum's AI pathfinding was absolutely loving miserable and made me wary of all other optional companions since, although luckily bad pathfinding by today's standards is a lot better than bad pathfinding was when it came out.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
A thing dragging Shadow of Mordor down: I don't like when the one captain who's been coming back from the grave and intercepting you for the past hour finally dies for good. I like the rotating cast of orc jerks to murder, but I'll miss having That One Guy who exists solely for me to behead over and over again.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
hosed up how posters in a video game thread enjoy playing new and good video games.

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Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:

Ryoshi posted:

The thing dragging D3 down for me is that it is so bland that even after beating it with two characters I legitimately cannot remember this.

If you were playing the game when "beating it" was still a thing that people did then you should give it another try, it got a pretty intensive overhaul to make it a Good Game.

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