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I feel really narcissistic asking this for a third time but I really, really want Jrodenfeld or The Mutato to answer the point I brought up on the other thread. Short version this time: If my house is on fire in Libertopia I feel I should not have to stop and make a rational decision to figure out who has the best fire department in my community. I am opposed to having the right to this decision because I know I will make the wrong choice every time, as my only criteria for "Best fire department" is the one that shows up first. I will pay them literally anything to save any valuables and/or family members trapped in the blazing inferno, and I would not regret that decision, and if I tell my friends that they are a terrible fire department that overcharged me, I feel it would not impact their decision to hire that same fire department if their house was on fire. That is a situation I would like to avoid and have come to the conclusion that a state can prevent that from happening.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:33
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wateroverfire posted:Why would you come to that conclusion? If the state runs the fire department there's only one that serves your area and if they suck your choice is to organize a bucket line. And here's where you ultimately lose me. If I live in a city with a poo poo fire department I get the impression I have two choices: -Get a bunch of people together to drop their existing day jobs, put up a little money for engines and hoses and make a competing fire department that does it better -Get a bunch of people together to vote in the next municipal election to improve the city fire department. Which is easier to accomplish and more likely to yield lasting results? Show your work. Because I am under the impression we tried privatized fire departments and it sucked.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:57
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VitalSigns posted:Eh, to be fair to Libertarians, this doesn't seem like that much of a problem. Banks already require mortgage-holders to carry insurance on the home or commercial property they're buying because banks don't like the idea of foreclosing on a pile of ashes. In a world where fire departments were private outfits, it's actually reasonable to suppose that your home insurance provider would have a preëxisting contract with a fire department and pay rates negotiated ahead of time. The insurance company pretty obviously won't do business with poo poo fire departments and if the FD incompetence makes you lose your home, the insurance company would still make you whole and they'd have the deep pockets to go after the FD if they want much like auto insurance companies do now. This is actually a really good point that doesn't use  STATISM to shut down the argument, so I admit to being wrong about this one.wateroverfire posted:But really it's easy. With your lack of work ethic and planning skills (see: your original question) clearly neither choice is realistic. Luckily in Libertopia you have a third option, which is to contract with a competing fire department run by someone more motivated and capable than you. Can I just say I officially like you better than Jrod now? He keeps talking about a utopia that everyone will benefit from under a libertarian society but you cut straight to the point and admit I'm too lazy to live in that world. Hell I'll admit it. I am too lazy to live in a libertarian society, my time preference is poo poo and I am terrible at investing DarklyDreaming fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 19:34
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Who What Now posted:It's an ideology made by and for people who are missing the part of their brains responsible for long-term planning. I would say the opposite, libertarianism depends on preparing for every conceivable eventuality and being able to survive it, with those that can't prepare being left in the dust for lacking "Time-preference" Of course the problem arises when the utterly inconceivable happens. Things like a resource drying up in a region, a viable career is rendered obsolete by new technology or a new disease shows up to ruin either your crops or your workforce. These things happen, no one is responsible for them happening, and more often then not they're impossible to plan for.
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Oct 1, 2014 03:26
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Reverend Catharsis posted:Serious inquiry by the by, everything I have said about myself in this post is true. I really want to know what I'm supposed to do outside of selling myself into slavery and hoping massah won't beat too much. The answer for this is that in a stateless or weak-state society private charities run by unpaid volunteers will be better than a million welfare systems because reasons
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Oct 2, 2014 05:28
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Caros posted:I don't recommend anyone click the links unless they have a strong stomach. I actually feel physically ill from writing some of that stuff, and as I said I have literally just skimmed the surface. I took a couple of trushibes videos that talked about women pretty much at random and this is what I've come up with. Since you have the stomach for wading through Molyneux I have to ask, didn't he try to make a sockpuppet account on one of his videos as a reasonably educated 21 year old woman who agreed with everything he said, but forgot to logout of his real account first? I seem to recall somebody in the MRA hate-o-sphere loving up that badly and I think it was him.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:17
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Alright that's more reasonable, still doesn't make him any less hosed up.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:43
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Caros posted:Oh it absolutely did. The age of 'free banking' was a loving gong show. But that was before industrialization so it wasn't real 
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Oct 3, 2014 02:47
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Caros posted:Good point. Didn't mean any offense by it, just thought it was funny. The joke was Jrod's goalpost shifting when history is brought up, probably should have named something later like the internet or tablet devices.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:54
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A thought just occurred to me. Would overfishing be considered an act of aggression?
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Oct 5, 2014 20:40
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Who What Now posted:Mead would just fall out of the eye sockets. If you do not know how to modify a skull into a drinking gourd you have no place in Valhalla DRO Actually now that I think about it, if I dislike the current leadership behind Valhalla DRO but am ok with raiding and pillaging in general would anyone join me in making a 99 Tngri DRO?
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Oct 19, 2014 18:02
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VitalSigns posted:Regarding that post, I know what you're going to say: "VitalSigns, that's worse than useless. It's actively confusing to redefine common words this way with esoteric meanings unique to your personal philosophy!" Well yes, the muddle is the point. They draw you in by defining common words with an idiosyncratic technical narrow definition, then switch it later by slipping into the vague common alternate meanings for their technical terms. One of the other ancaps to post here (I think his username was Socrates) did this as well, he defined "Inflation" as "Paper money" and was surprised when people looked at him funny for doing that.
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Oct 28, 2014 19:59
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Caros posted:Pollution is an act of aggression. But in the words of the great Lucille Bluth: "Prove it." I want to focus on this a little because it's part of an important environmental concern For about 50 years between the 1860's to the 1910's arsenic was the preferred method of embalming recently dead people so they'd look pretty for an open casket funeral. Nowadays the caskets have rotted, the bodies have completely decayed, but the arsenic eventually leaked into the groundwater and many people are currently suffering from arsenic poisoning right now as a result. Who gets sued in that situation? No one who decided to embalm with arsenic is even alive today, if the funeral homes they worked for even exist as companies anymore they have drastically different leadership in charge now, it's the same for the cemeteries that hold the arsenic corpses and the churches that held the services.
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Nov 2, 2014 00:43
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Caros posted:Thanks. Good to know it is appreciated, even if I did lose about three games worth of League because someone was wrong on the internet. I would compare reading your posts to watching Chris White's legendary 3 hour Ancient Aliens Debunked movie. I probably didn't need to watch the whole thing to know he was right, but I feel like a better and smarter person for having done so.
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Nov 9, 2014 07:07
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StandardVC10 posted:Religion at least has been responsible for some genuine good works over the years. When's the last time anyone did something good for libertarian reasons? Wikipedia. Though Jimmy Wales would probably not be considered a real libertarian by Jrod and those that get cited by Jrod because he ultimately believes in the necessity of the state, just wishes it would be smaller.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:13
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StandardVC10 posted:Wait, Hans Hermann Hoppe is alive and writing today? Yeah this came up a few pages ago. HHH writes like a lesser German aristocrat from 1890 but he's in his mid-sixties and actively contributes to economic discussions that are happening right now. Well at least he would if economists didn't avoid him like the plague.
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Nov 17, 2014 05:31
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Nintendo Kid posted:It's rude the denigrate the various states within Somalia like this to be honest. Why not Bi'r Tawīl? That's a real honest no government no coercion zone. Thanks to this thread I have learned that there is a small triangle of land between Egypt and Sudan that belongs to nobody. I didn't think that poo poo even still happened in the 21st century 
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Nov 19, 2014 05:34
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LuftWaffle posted:You guys are such assholes on this board that most libertarians found that it was not worth posting here, so now you just make threads where you discuss ideas that none of you actually hold, which really just amounts to a really dumb strawman circlejerk. Look you're probably not going to respond to this but it needs to be said: Libertarians get chased out of this thread because Jrodefeld is the only ancap who posted here that argues in good faith*. Everyone else argues like you and calls us a bunch of sheep brainwashed by the state and too dumb to realize it. If you want us to take libertarianism seriously you should stop being a walking punchline. *I mean yeah he can get condescending as all get out, and he doesn't so much argue as he does vomit forth essays C+V'd from Mises.org but he at least tries.
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Nov 24, 2014 18:54
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CommieGIR posted:
At this point I think that was just him admitting he's trolling us and doesn't believe a word of it. Though I'm probably wrong.
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Nov 25, 2014 01:48
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paragon1 posted:Under The Code of Hammurabi, if a man builds a house, and that house collapses and kills the family within, then the builder and his family must be put to death. Out of everything brought up by Valhalla DRO, I have a feeling building a legal system that has "the strong should not harm the weak" in its preamble would make it a pariah state in libertopia faster than a million skull thrones. DarklyDreaming fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 18:53
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Look jrodefeld the reason we keep nagging you about how this or that Libertarian thinker is racist is because you keep bending over backwards to justify it when it really should not be this hard to say "This guy is a racist but he makes a few good points about the inherent evil of government." As an example from my own political ideals and a show of good faith: I hereby declare that I believe Paul R Ehrlich is a racist. His views on overpopulation are thinly veiled "get hosed brown people" screeds disguised as environmentalism. That does not mean I think we should throw out every sustainability plan scientists put forth, and if him being a racist is a negative mark on environmentalism it is not a big one. Like I said, this shouldn't be so hard.
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Jan 26, 2015 02:24
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Political Whores posted:Nah I disagree with this. Any policy point a racist puts forth is suspect because of their racism. If someone came up and said Ehrlich may be racist but he had good points I'd tell them to gently caress off. If jrod didn't rely on racists for pints maybe this wouldn't be s problem. After all there are plenty of non racist environmentalists. But he relies on a shitton of racists to bolster his point. When you put it that way yeah, proving that Ehrlich is an outlier is relatively easy, while proving that the dominant voices in anarcho-capitalist thought have views that do not reflect the majority of ancapism is pretty hard.
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Jan 26, 2015 02:39
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Caros posted:I especially enjoy watching right wing lunatics tell him he's wrong. People thinking he is wrong about things is a bipartisan effort. What I find really enjoyable are the libertarians who post here responding to our Jrodefeld related posts and going "That's not libertarianism, only a crazy person would think that"
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Feb 3, 2015 03:20
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jrodefeld posted:I want to ask how many of you are genuine Marxists or Socialists? Just so I'm clear, I don't mean a moderately regulated free market with a social safety net, but one who is committed to the idea that private ownership of the means of production and income inequality are inherent evils that must be combated through nationalization of industry and/or workers taking control of the means of production? Personally I'm opposed to being attached to any kind of -ism that isn't environmentalism, but that desire to fight global warming and widespread extinction has put me dangerously close to a lot of Socialist and Marxist circles. To me protection of the earth requires a proactive state, ideally a democratic one. Someone with power needs to be able to approach a factory or a refinery and say "Stop that, you're putting poison in the air. It won't kill us today but will definitely kill our children 40 years from now" Because the most rational choice in the world is to not give a poo poo what may or may not happen long after you die, and I've said that about five different ways on this thread alone.
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Feb 3, 2015 07:56
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:if someone who is infectious is taking hostile action against others, why is someone rendering themselves potentially infectious by not getting vaccinated not also being hostile? Semi-related, I asked this ages ago but Jrod took another sabbatical and I completely forgot: Is overfishing an act of aggression?
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Feb 11, 2015 06:40
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Caros posted:Also I just wanted to take this moment to thank everyone in this thread. With your help we have saved Jrodefeld from at least a half dozen bans or probations by keeping him contained in a single thread rather than spilling over into D&D in general. It is hard work, but in my heart I am certain the vaunted mods of D&D appreciate your sacrifice. Well FINALLY  But seriously, I wonder if Jrod will
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Feb 14, 2015 07:47
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Disinterested posted:No, it's entirely consistent. A Randian hero is someone who bites the hand that feeds her, by definition. Yeah it's important to remember that an Ancap would refuse state help out of principle if they could, but an Objectivist would joyfully and openly commit welfare fraud if they thought it was worth it, the name of the game is selfishness above all else
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Feb 19, 2015 22:13
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VitalSigns posted:He has always ignored or deflected any and every question about Daesh because it's pretty obviously fatal to his theories that war is (a) never profitable, (b) only capable of being waged by pre-existing sovereign states with fiat currency, and (c) powerless agains freedom-loving libertarian yeoman farmers who can totally win against everything (except against an actual state, no matter how small or poor, with an army or at least a military band) Not sure what Jrod's response will be but from what I heard the official Libertarian party line right now is that Daesh is totally a state because people in occupied territories pay taxes now.
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Feb 22, 2015 21:57
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VitalSigns posted:But...but... When most of your arguments eventually devolve into "Well nothing similar to this has actually been tried but if you just have a little faith in the Non-Aggression-Principle you'll see how much of a utopia it really is" declaring counter-examples as actually the result of statism makes a stupid kind of sense.
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Feb 22, 2015 23:39
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Lemming posted:The first line is "Yet again, the government wants to fix a problem that doesn’t exist." which implies they don't understand that this is actually bringing things back to the status quo (roughly), which means the author is very stupid. Well yeah Comcast putting its boot on my throat and telling me that I can't view certain parts of the internet isn't really a problem in Libertopia, it's the selling point. DarklyDreaming fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 27, 2015 |
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Feb 27, 2015 02:19
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Also it was Gary Johnson, former governor of New Mexico and 2012 Libertarian Party presidential nominee that proposed bringing back Letters of Marque. EDIT: OH poo poo 
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Mar 22, 2015 06:36
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jrodefeld posted:Okay. Since so many of you seem to be throwing a fit about how I didn't answer all the questions you wanted me to answer, then pick out the top ones that you want me to respond to and I will. What I won't do is comb through all 220 pages of this thread and answer every critique that has been lobbed against me. It is ridiculous to expect me to do such a thing Ok, we joked about this in your absence but I really want you to settle a bet for me: Does Daesh qualify as a state?
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Mar 22, 2015 17:42
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President Kucinich posted:Just because Jrod idolizes white supremacist writings that would make Nathen Bedford Forrest blush doesn't mean he was singling out black women. Yeah it's a racist talking point but as has been demonstrated many, many times before, Jrod would not recognize a racist talking point if bit him multiple times and burned a cross on his lawn
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Mar 22, 2015 21:19
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Dr Pepper posted:How do contracts get enforced without the existence of a state by the way. The damage to my good name that refusing to honor a contract will cause. Because fly-by-night operations don't exist and if they do they only exist because of the state.
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Mar 23, 2015 19:04
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Caros posted:So *is* Hans Hermann Hoppe. I know it is difficult to remember in light of the fact that he writes like a 19th century aristocrat, but HHH is alive and well teaching in Nevada. He lives in Istanbul now and I'm not sure why.
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Mar 26, 2015 23:44
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Disinterested posted:Which is the most libertarian science-fiction/series? The Probability Broach. By a laughable margin.
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Mar 28, 2015 01:35
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I feel like sneaking in this filth straight from the statist's mouth is some kind of meta-joke but I'm not sure I get it 
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Mar 29, 2015 04:41
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I used to think of myself as a good person, but once a week for the past 8 months I will put my boot right on the throat of decent hard-working homesteaders and pay fellow gun toting thugs to spend a couple hours hiking and climbing around in a State Park. I know so much more could be made if someone mixed their labor with the land but all I can think of is appreciating the trees and wildlife just the way they are. Learn from my mistakes, don't go to an isolated piece of pristine wilderness, not even once.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:59
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SyHopeful posted:He's made defenses of Rand Paul ITT, but hasn't proclaimed much specific love for him since Paul is more of a "liberty-minded" Republican than a True Believer. At first he was all over Rand Paul's laurels and wanted to defend his anti-vaxx statements, then a little more recently he made a several paragraph rant about how he's giving up on voting in the next election because Rand Paul "sold out" possibly because he isn't dismantling the US government fast enough.
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Apr 1, 2015 01:26
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Who What Now posted:I know it shouldn't be because I've read it before but it's still a little shocking just how blatant the fucker is with outright saying he thinks blacks are inherently inferior to whites in every way. But remember, Libertarians aren't really racist
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May 26, 2015 16:34
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