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Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

theshim posted:

I fell behind on USPol again, what does this mean

There's a libertarian invasion going on.

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Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

You could try PMing D&D mods, Absurd Alhazred and ExMarx (currently gently caress HARAMBE) seem to be the active ones.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

8-Bit Scholar posted:

I am starting to suspect that there are not actually very many libertarians in this, the libertarian thread.

Be the change you want to see in the world, friend :)

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Can we get the robots talking to each other, this is objectively horrible

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

If I had said objectivistively horrible, would you have spared me? :(



:salt:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Captain_Maclaine posted:

This is the libertarian thread. No one gets out alive.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

White Coke posted:

If I could return to that great champion of libertarian principles, Hitler, for a second, was the Holocaust justified because the Jews had aggressed against the Aryan Race by trying to pollute their pure genetics by making them breed with lesser races, or was it justified because they had aggressed against Christendom when they murdered Jesus?

Hitler himself wasn't too keen on Christianity, and particularly the organized Churches, so I guess the first one? He also compared the Jews to "a bacillus" in the body of the volk.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Weatherman posted:

Hard "g", like "goatse", or soft "g", like "GIF"?

Are you a jigawatt man?

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

WrenP-Complete posted:

Who is the wrestler?

Paul Michael Levesque, whose stage name is Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

ToxicSlurpee posted:

The obvious answer is to privatize it. Businesses can bid on babies and raise them however they see fit. Parents, being totally rational actors, will most certainly understand that the highest bidder wants to make a return on that investment and will have the child's best interests at heart.

This is kinda what happened in Sweden and Finland in the decades before the world wars; local municipalities would hold auctions where they'd sell orphans, handicapped folks etc. to the households who'd agree to take them in for the lowest compensation.

As you can imagine, especially in rural areas this led to a whole bunch of kids toiling in the fields in more-or-less-slavery.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

WrenP-Complete posted:

Edit: also, did anyone watch that stripping Libertarian video? I didn't and someone referenced a dancing Libertarian with Nazi tattoos in the USPol chat.

It happened during their party convention, and was covered on popular media such as Sam B. Whether or not an iron cross is national socialist per se is questionable, but presumably this guy meant it as a white pride thing rather than an homage to the Kaiser :v:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

WrenP-Complete posted:

Thanks, I wasn't sure if "dancing" was an allusion to stripping and it was conceivable (to me) there might be two dancing Libertarians. I asked in the thread but no reply. Almost everyone is Arzying about the election. I have no opinion on these symbolic issues.

If you wanna see an obese, bearded white dude taking his clothes off, here ya go, but it isn't anything to write home about. What is genuinely hilarious, however, is that the footage is from C-span :haw:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Pththya-lyi posted:

Bring back Jrod

He was already re-animated as a robotic monstrosity, what more do you want? :pcgaming:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013



The name of the movie derives from a scene where a young man has sex with an American pie, as in the baked good. But this seems like a poor comparison, wouldn't one have to make a hole in the watermelon before loving it? Watermelons are hard, pies are soft.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

What does Jrodimus think about *partying* with *happy campers*?

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Gonna throw out 88 John Galts because someone has to :haw:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Sorry if this is off-topic, you guys and gals seem to enjoy critiquing the economical and philosophical (LOL) aspects of libertarianism, but over at the dems are a waste thread a really, really devoted stoner-libertarian has been advocating for Gary Johnson a couple days straight now. If you're into that sort of thing.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Caros posted:

For example, democrats response to Anthony Wiener was to kick his rear end to the curb for sexting, and then to kick his rear end again when he kept doing it, before it was ultimately revealed that he was sexting witch children.

Why are Dems against paganism? :tinfoil:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Probably, once we got to the "naked dancing fat man" stage of things I sorta tuned out on the finer details of the nominating process.

To paraphrase the title of the DnD Germany thread, "I saw his Nazi tattoos and was seriously intrigued" :godwinning:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Kanine posted:

im assuming most of the gadsden flag memes have already been posted in the thread

You say that as if it is meant to deter us from the glory of

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Goon Danton posted:

It's not as if we can't provide for everyone: archeological digs of neolithic villages have revealed the remains of fully grown adults with severe disabilities, who could only have made it to adulthood if the community was taking care of them, and that was the literal stone age.

Would you happen to have sources for this handy? I would like to show this to some... irritating people I know.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Goon Danton posted:

Here is an article from 2012 on one such case (Burial 9 in Man Bac in Vietnam), but it's something that's well documented in archeology going back to at least the early 80s.

Thanks, I think this will be a rabbit hole to follow. My publications on dead creatures were all pre-human, so this stuff is often new to me :)

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

polymathy posted:

Bernie, as a Jew himself,

I'm a filthy prole who cannot afford to, but this really needs to be his new redtext

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

polymathy posted:

If the United States had offered full asylum for all German Jews during the 1930s, the Holocaust might have been avoided.

I like how even your old white men can't keep their theories straight; you do realize Hitler's Germany invaded several countries, containing millions of non-German Jews, whose lives would not have been spared by an asylum for "German Jews"? Unless you subscribe to the idea that any nation willing to submit to German rule is automatically German, but this seems a bit counter to your whining about wars and aggressions.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Caros posted:

You're literally at a point where you are arguing that Hitler, the man ultimately responsible for the holocaust, wouldn't have murdered all the jews if they'd just gone away. I want you to go away. I want you to fall face down into a ditch full of stagnant swamp water and poo poo yourself to death.

Just like Ron Paul never knew about what went on in his newsletter, isn't it possible that Hitler didn't know what his underlings were up to? We may never know!

He knew all about it, and Ron Paul is a racist

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

polymathy posted:

The goal of an economy is to produce things that people value.

Actually, the goal of a capitalist economy is to enrich the few at the expense of the rest of society. There's even this funny simulation of it, which children all around the world detest, it's called 'Monopoly', have any of your vaunted rich white old dudes heard of it?

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Filipino posted:

No human being has the right to steal property from another human being.

Right, so all of America (as in land, property and any benefit obtained thereof in the past few centuries) should be returned to their rightful, as per your argument, owners, post-haste? Right?

Wait, where are you going and why are you hugging onto your waifu pillow screaming at me? I'm just following your logic!

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Filipino posted:

We should accomadate natives as much as we can.

Enough to let Benghazi 2 fight you physically over whether you get to own your house anymore? Or is your stuff just too good to 'accommodate' anyone?

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Golbez posted:

On anti-state.com the favorite refrain was, "Where we're going, we won't need roads." Flying cars and jetpacks for all!

I realize the supposed answer boils down to some form of "people would just respect the non-aggression principle and drive safe", but a part of me would really, really enjoy seeing a libertarian society deal with flying cars and jetpacks and all the associated problems that would arise. These are the same people who booed seatbelts for christ's sake and that was for land-driven cars.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

OwlFancier posted:

Libertarianism is great because it's all the theoretical problems of anarcho communism except the society it purports to create when working ideally still sounds loving horrible.

One of the best threads on these here SA forums was Eripsa's classic of social media being the cornerstone of some kind of quasi-libertarian utopia. He was so earnest about it and it went on forever :pcgaming: And was absolutely horrifying on all levels too!

Holy crap, I didn't realize how old the thread (and by extension myself :smith:) was

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Cpt_Obvious posted:

My biggest complaint about libertarians is their failure to acknowledge class struggle. Arguably the most important Marxist criticism of capitalism has nothing to do with public vs private, but boss vs. worker.

That is, if I want a raise, my desire for money is directly opposed to the business owner because he necessarily wants to pay me less. Everything I desire as a worker has to come out of my boss's pocket. Wages, safety precautions, vacation, breaks, healthcare, etc. Therefore, my boss will do everything he can to counter my desires. This puts employer in an adversarial relationship with employee.

I have heard no capitalist rebuttal of this obvious fact.

Well, for a brief time you had odious sociopaths like Henry Ford deciding to improve wages and conditions on the premise that this would lead to better exploitation of labour, which it did. This is no longer popular with the race to the bottom manufactured by late-stage capitalism, but at least at some point they tried to acknowledge the issue.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Panfilo posted:

So how does Galt's Gulch handle a pandemic?

Attempting to infect someone else is an obvious violation of the NAP, so presumably they'd shoot everyone who sneezed :shrug:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Poor bat, biting an active libertarian and turning into Bruce Wayne :(

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

If I've understood correctly, calling cops pigs originated during the 60's civil rights protests, where calling them mother-fuckers and such were grounds for getting arrested (or at least beaten), but "pig" was a more neutral term that didn't carry criminal intent behind it. This might be one of those cultural things that are here to stay for awhile longer, no matter how bright actual pigs might be.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Thank you, I learned something today! Or unlearned some thing I maybe read somewhere once and took as gospel :eng99:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

polymathy posted:

A free market economy tends to produce a lot of good paying jobs that most people are perfectly happy to work at. The idea that most jobs would pay what you'd consider to be "slave-wages" is a fallacy.

Citations, please, and preferably something other than a speech Ronald Reagan made at a GE plant floor in the 1950's.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Heinlein is propped up by some libertarians due to Starship Troopers, but it's not exactly obvious reading the book that the author meant for the reader to take everything presented at face value. Add to this the movie, and...

He did present libertarian sentiments as his alter ego, Lazarus Long, such as being against central banking, but Lazarus was more about literally having sex with his mother and other relatives, so this may have been a case of horny author rather than possessed ideologue. :shrug:

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Jazerus posted:

heinlein is definitely libertarian

where people make a mistake wrt his ideology is when they interpret starship troopers (the book) as fash. it's not, and i would argue that (knowing that he's a libertarian) it is taking "statism" to an absolute extreme and trusting you to recoil in revulsion from a society where the state demands service to receive the franchise; you are, indeed, not supposed to take the big lecture rico receives in officer school at face value. in fact, the very presentation of it - a john galt-esque manifesto, but ideologically inverted - is a big tip-off that it is supposed to be Bad. however, it's likely that heinlein's intent was for this to be an allegory representing all states, rather than just fashy states. or rather, that he is trying to convey that the state is inherently and unavoidably totalitarian as it expands.

i'll give him this, he isn't trying to advance the neoconfederate corporate hellscape version of libertarianism that we tackle in this thread, but he's still very much a libertarian

Yeah, he is a brand of libertarian, if we take Jubal Harshaw and Lazarus Long as Heinlein mouth-pieces, and why wouldn't we? One of the "ideal" societies the cast of the "world as myth" cantos encounters is essentially a watchman state, but with bizarre and horrifyingly violent penalties for crime. But they're very "polite drivers", so this is okay somehow? And with the magical widget that Jacob invents in "the number of the Beast", while the story starts out as them just trying to flee for their lives, one of the first things the cast considers when given a peaceful enough time is how to make money off Venusian real estate. Heinlein just doesn't seem as... Obsessed with the NAP or things like that sort that the thread berates, as you point out, he's more about people loving and getting to use whatever the crazy inventions they make in whatever way they like. Hell, even Lazarus at one point actually creates a state. And he "likes" Slayton Ford, who would be the absolute boogey-man to jrod.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

VitalSigns posted:

Theoretically yeah, but realistically libertarians hate the poo poo out of it because again, nonwhite main characters, girl Jedi.

ehhhh idk about this

He was very libertarianish in a free-love anti-religion kinda way (but no gay stuff absolutely not, just old man sex with young girl harems thank you very much), but there's no real indication that he thought the big speech in ST was bad. That's not to say he necessarily believed all of it, maybe he was just playing with ideas, but his was a big pro-mil guy who probably believed some of it, like the part about how only military veterans can be trusted to lead because they and only they have enough character to take personal responsibility for the good of society (side note: lmbo). That Colonel Jessup kind of outlook that soft civilians only tuck themselves safely into bed at night because Hard Men are out there making Hard Decisions shows up in his other works. Plus, the end of the book? Maybe I didn't get it and Rico's dad showing up and being all "hey son I was wrong about everything, being a wealthy elite businessman is empty and pointless compared to being in the infantry, I'm your first sergeant now! Thanks for showing me the way, I love you son let's bond over bug-killing" is supposed to be bad, but it didn't seem like that?

The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress is libertarianish in a frontier rugged individualism kind of way, although the setting doesn't really make sense for it (it's not really clear how you can all be rugged individualists when everyone depends on a central authority to supply oxygen, heat, water, etc). But it is extremely Libertarian fiction in the sense that the protagonists essentially have a magic deus ex machina on their side (the main character accidentally creates a perfect AI on the moon colony's central all-controlling mainframe, and luckily this AI agrees that rugged individualism is awesome and instantly puts full command of all the colony's environmental and security and control systems in the hands of the rebels)

There is some lesbian sex being seen as "good", although again this might just be horny author syndrome. And the aforementioned Jacob Carter does mention he had a homosexual encounter, but "they tried it and it didn't work for them". And Heinlein did author a book about transsexualism, too.

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Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Jazerus posted:

yes. and they are always ready to log on and twiddle some dials so captain whizbang can go on an adventure

So you're basically the poor bastard on FTL having to fight boarders all the time?

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