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I wonder if the Psychic phase really takes longer or just feels that way. I play a lot of Eldar and having them go "Alright, I cast this power with this guy...now I re-roll thanks to my artifact...now you deny the witch...now I do wounds and you do saves. Now for his SECOND power..." multiple times in each phase certainly wasn't fast, but it was peppered through the other stuff so it felt lighter. Now it takes more mastery levels to do less, so the end result may be faster overall.
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May 23, 2014 22:38
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JerryLee posted:I would love it if orks were the most powerful codex forever because they're just so trollish and nonserious that they'd be the perfect antidote to all the I can relate to the feeling, the in reality all the salty powergamers would just move to Orks and tell you all about their amazing Ork tribe that is super pals with Draigo and visits him in the Warp and they totally have their own ork batle barge that is the strongest ever.
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May 24, 2014 00:04
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players who come up with noble backstories for their space elves or viking furries or rapist nazi soldiers.
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Hollismason posted:One of the buffs that people seem to miss is that with Dark Eldar and Eldar, battle brothers can now ride in each others transports. So Banshees and Scorpions got a nice boost. You have to take the Transport for something else but who cares, Dark Eldar are cheap. I think I'll prefer to grab some Guardians to lurk back home near an objective and let some Trueborn ride arund in their Wave Serpent. All n all, Scorpions are still better than banshees on most situations due to having grenades and an Exarch that can hit at S7 Ap2 at initiative, plus better armor. Sephyr fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 23:56
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Since I'd rather not brave the whinefest of DakkaDakka, thought I'd ask here: What can Eldar/Dark Eldar bring in for their Lords of War? I know AM get Baneblades, Chaos gets that silly Lord of Skulls, but what about the space elves? Thought I'd make a Nurgle Plague Tower from some bits and was wondering if it could be used for daemons/CSM, too.
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May 27, 2014 00:48
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Da gun iz gud! Da peniz is evil!
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May 27, 2014 00:56
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Fix posted:Revenant Titan. 900 points. The only thing Chaos has is the Lord of Skulls. Gah. Nothing cheaper points-wise? That's half an army by itself. drat Baneblades and their cost-benefit ratio.
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May 27, 2014 01:05
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Is it me or are these completely at odds with the psychic discipline access table listed in the BRB? Can Lords of Change pick powers from every discipline but sanctic daemonology or are they limited to Tzeentch, Divination and Daemonology? Can Sorcerers take Divination and Force? Can anyone in the CSM book take Telekinesis powers at all? Also, it seems that you don't even need to be a primary detachment to get 4 heralds per HQ slot of daemons. So allies can grab 4 heralds of Tzeentch...and daemons can ally with themselves to get 12 heralds going. Sephyr fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 20:25
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AbusePuppy posted:The availability of most disciplines is unchanged, folks just got access to Daemonology in addition to other stuff. That means that a Lord of Change will have Change, Divination, and Daemonology available to it. Force isn't something you have to "take"- if you have a force weapon you get it, if you don't you don't. Divination and Telekinesis are listed in the CSM column (and Divination in the SM column) because there are ways to get access to them- the Crimson's Laughter relic and Ahriman for CSM, Tigurius for SM. That still makes no sense. Why bar Telekinesis for CSM is their codex states they can use it? And why allow Divination on the table if it's only granted by one artifact in a supplement? In fact, so single entry in the Daemons books allows Telekinesis, and yet it has a big green check on the chart.
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May 27, 2014 22:02
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Ok, am I missing something or did they remove the Rending effect from Sniper weapons in the new book? I can't find mention of it. Were snipers so overpowered that they needed this nerf, or did GW discover that I finished painting my Rangers and decided to have a laugh?
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Jun 5, 2014 00:58
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Naramyth posted:4 trukks is target saturation? More like 8. I've played against a lot of trukk rush and I've never had a problem with them as several flavors of IG, GK, or SM over 5th and 6th editions. Wagons were and probably are still are way cooler. Very much this. My friend uses around 5 trukks and my plague marines usually barely register them. Between those that get exploded, casualties from overwatch and losing attacks to defensive grenades, they never get to do anything more than being a short-lived tarpit, ad that was when they still had fun rules and weaker explosions. Lootas, bikes and Warbosses have always done the bulk of orky killing against my CSM. Battlewagons can also be a big pain if there's other, faster vehicles tto soak up antitank fire and let them pick their fights. Afriend once pretty much nuked my T6 nurgle bikers using only a battlewagon loaded with tons of big shootas both on the vehicle and on the passengers.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:16
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That new Knight is freaking terrifying. No need to fear ork powerklaws if you can just challenge them away, and Orks have precious little else that can put a hurting on Knights. 3++ on one facing is also really strong, unless you play AM or Tau and thus have long range firepower to waste across the board. IWND is a very meh ability, in my experience. I pretty much always run a Helldrake (just one) and have used the Crimson Slaughter amor that grants it (mostly in order to get a 2+ save on a bike lord or sorcerer), and I honestly can't remember it ever recovering a wound or hull point. Though I reckon giving it to something with a ton of hull points/wounds that can never be one-shotted is another matter.
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Jul 9, 2014 21:32
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Esser-Z posted:Yeah, in my (limited) experience I've found Overwatch really isn't very dangerous on the whole. BS1 doesn't let many hits through. You must play a 3+ save army then, or one that has tons of disposable bodies. DE troops will lose a third or a 10-man assault unit to overwatch on average, and that's if they do not have a flamer to pile in yet more unsaveable wounds. That's easily enough to make most assaults from over 6 inches fail outright unless the enemy positioned really poorly. Not being able to charge out of vehicles that did not move also hurt 'casual' assault units a lot. Sure, some beastly assault units that exploit rule holes or rules combos that make them more resilient than most other can face exist, but they are the exception. The truth is that the average wych, Banshee, berserker and such will have far, far less chances to inflict casualties than any mook with a 24" range gun.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:03
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Esser-Z posted:I mostly assault with Meganobz, yeah. And I've not played THAT MANY games, so it could also just be probability doing its thing. The probability bends -fast- toward the mean once you start playing with T3 stuff, models with a 4+ armor save or worse, and outdated/weird point cost. For all the talk of how the devs are worried about assault hitting an OP level of stacking modifiers, it's really off how shooting has no downsides. Shooting: +Can start stacking casualties on turn 1 +~24inch threat range +Can be safely twin-linked in many armies every turn via psykers, to become hideously efficient. +Never gives the target a reaction (overwatch, return fire, etc) +Has almost no limiting conditions (no penalties for range, or losing RF if you employ Split Fire or other abilities. +Easier to hit, as BS 4 is common, making 3+ the number to work from, and many units and special characters can easily reach 2+. -Cannot sweep broken units. Melee: +Has more attacks per model than shooting, generally. At least on the charge. -Harder to hit, as the target number never goes below 3+ unless your name is Kharn. similarly, you are never hit on worse than a 5+, so sky high WS is mostly pointless. -Usually only feasible from turns 3 and onwards. -Threat range of 7" to 18". -Can fail entirely on distance poor roll -Affected by tons of limiting conditions: disordered charge, difficult terrain, if you got off a vehicle, if a necron lord is making you hit yourself, wonky challenges getting key models out of the fray or forcing some armies to make suicidal 'choices'. -Allows reactions, both in the form of overwatch and also letting the target hit back. +Can sweep broken units. However, perhaps a bit under half of the armies in the game can actually be wiped out via sweeping. Marines do not, Nids will be fearless most of the time, CSM has access to tons of fearless models, AM blobs are almost unbreakable... - Can be made more reliable with prescience and other buffs, but with far less impact as they are not active for many turns as they get in position and such. +Allows a little extra move if you manage to win despite all that. - Then you get shot apart in the next enemy turn.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:08
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Nichol posted:Sure but it makes a lot of sense, future space armies-wise. Even modern combat is almost exclusively contested at range, in comparison to mediaeval warfare (see: shooting less effective in whfb). And even so, melee units can be very effective, but fluff-wise consider the "reality" of a horde of works charging enough shooting to kill them all before they get into cc. Lots of orkses are going to get shredded. I can play Infinity if I want to just pew-pew at other future dudes (In fact, I do). 40k the sort of sci-fi that takes after Dune in that warfare has gone full circle and melee is actually a thing again. Hell, pretty much every HQ that is not Tau is a close-combat beast instead of an artillery officer or the guy with the heaviest projectile weapon. Going back to my little pro/cons list, it has big holes, granted. I forgot that assault can lock target units out of shooting, for instance, or that shooting lets you assess results of earlier shooting and commit more units, as someone pointed out. It's still a big gap, however, especially when you consider how much riskier and more resource-intensive assault is. Want your cc unit to make it there? You'll likely need an expensive assault vehicle, or a honking big unit to soak up losses. Shooty units just need a perch with good visibility and cover and they are pulling trigger from turn 1. That's also why I added Prescience as a plus to shooting and not so much to melee: firepower can benefit from it 5+ turns, as there'll pretty much always be target. Melee units will spend time in transit, inside transports, and might get to enjoy their re-rolls for one, maybe two turns each game, and that's if you managed to keep a psyker nearby, which is way easier to do with a ranged unit. Dropping this can of worms, though, has there been any info on the new 40k campaign supplement?
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Jul 11, 2014 17:30
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Preparing for a tournament at my club (I'm not playing but I'll help with organizing and rules), and while going over the lists, a doubt popped up. A Chaos sorcerer has the Nurgle primaris but no other Nurgle powers. I know the chaos psychic focus grants the primaris, but don't you also need to roll a power on the table? Also, the new restriction on flying MCs on switching flight moes and then assaulting is huge. Apparently it's written somewhere in the GW charter that no one gets to assault anymore without eating at least 2 turns of fire.
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Jul 25, 2014 02:40
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JerryLee posted:Why would the rolled powers be on the list anyway? You don't know them until you roll at the beginning of the game; that's the point (for better or for worse) of random powers. They were all pre-rolled with another judge to speed up things between games, as we're trying to have 4 matches for each player in a single day.
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Jul 25, 2014 03:02
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Safety Factor posted:Honestly, I've always found that GW poses models in the most boring ways possible. I have to side with GW on this one. Trying to fit a bunch or berserkers together in a cc pile can be a nightmare if they are all posed in cool, dynamic ways. Hell, Hormagaunts can barely stay up in their running pose if you don't add weights to the base. Add in sloping terrain and such, and it's usually better to be safe than sorry. Hell, I love my Infinity models to death, but many of them have poses that makes sticking them next to cover a chore, or falling over evert 15 seconds a fact of life (I'm looking at YOU, Reverend Cassandra Kusanagi and your dump Matrix pose)
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Jul 29, 2014 05:52
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Played Maelstrom of War for the first time. The Escalation scenario is quite neat: you get more cards as the game goes on and you have less assets to chase the objectives, making good management important. However, on the next table my friends were also playing with the objective cards and it was 20-2 before the other guy conceded. One player just kept getting good hands and drawing tons of extra cards. Also, drop pods are ridiculous now. They really should FAQ that only transports with actual troops inside score.
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Aug 4, 2014 05:14
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So far the Space Wolves codex seems pretty solid. Grey Hunters are not so hideously better than all other troops choices (indeed, seem to have no way of getting Objective secured), Long Fangs get a price fix to get in line with similar stuff, cheap stuff like the wolf trikets that let you hit anything on a 3+ are gone. On the other hand, their flyer is pretty strong, even their dreads have ways of getting a drat 3++ (Really GW, where do you get off giving stuff like Knights and other AV13 models premium invulnerable saves?), not to mention the wolf guard that can be spread over squads with more storm shields. Drop pods are hideously broken as it is now, though. AV 12 vehicles laugh at almost any Interceptor gun in the game currently, meaning that as soon as they deploy, you are getting those objective cards. Letting passengers do a full 6-inch move from a guide deep-strike means that you will always be in the perfect position for a flamer or melta shot. They should be defined as non-scoring vehicles, or changed to got 55-60 points.
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Aug 8, 2014 19:12
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The thing is, DE are not even much faster than everyone else at this point. Every vehicle can turbo-boost n extra 6 in this edition. Lowly ork Trukks can zoom a full 24" if they feel like it. Vanilla eldar and Tau are just as fast and way more durable. Their jetbikes are faster than the nom, but no longer being able to move 12 inches in a Raider, run and thencharge with fleet made assault (or even medium-range shooting) suicidal. Thel longest-range DE guns fire 36 inches, leaving them well within range of multilasers, autocannons, and even heavy bolters that ill happily slag up your rides. At least they don't blow up as much anymore: mass S4 hits on your frail dudes was just... murdeous. DE would need either better armor saves (which steal a bit of their flavor) or ways to avoid overwatch to be able to get in close again. Template weapons would also help, as would some vaiation of darklight weapons. Perhaps something like they did with the railgun? S8 lances regular, and a heavy darklight cannon for Ravagers that is S9-10 or fires from waaay farther away.
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Aug 10, 2014 18:09
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BULBASAUR posted:
What book is it in? I've been wanting to grab a Chaos storm eagle to replace my Land Raider, but it seems so overpriced. The new SW flyer carries more, has WAY better armament and PotMS for a measly 10 points more!
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Aug 12, 2014 01:01
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BULBASAUR posted:They FAQed the Axe of Get hosed to be blood god only Which is extra dumb because the mark of Khorne and the axe both grant the USR: Rage. It's still a good item, but the lazy design shows.
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Aug 13, 2014 23:49
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As far as I know, you can LoS as many times as you have other models in the unit, starting with the closest ones and then moving on outward. I think there may be a 6 inches range limit but I'm not sure it's still the case in 7th.
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Aug 17, 2014 23:16
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Sykic posted:You're paying a lot of points per model for a single S6 AP3 shot at 6" and two S6 AP3 attacks on the charge. Remember, if you don't kill what you're charging in that turn, you're now attacking with a single S3 AP- hit because of the Impact rule. And your strong low-AP fire will make your subsequent charge a lot harder, unless you are shooting at terminators or MCs. It's not as bad for Eldar who have Fleet, but I have a beef with missing charges because you did too well at shooting that unit in the previous phase. One easy way to make melee more reliable would be to only remove models who die from shooting after a charge is declared and measured but before overwatch. You assault positions, after all, not the first guy in line.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:32
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New GKs seem...awful. Psybolts were a bit too strong, but they also added some flavor and could have just been adjusted. Looks like the new book banks entirely on the strength of its psykers and psyker defense, and very cheap, powerful artifacts (35-point 12-inch fearless bubble with additional benefits? CSM pay almost that much for fearless on a single, much weaker unit). I have two friends with paladin-themed armies that will be horrified, though. I was glad that Dark Eldar is coming soon, but now I'm getting second thoughts. I'd give even odds that they'll go "Skimmers and jetbikes are bunk. You know what Eldar should do? Spam our expensive finecast Wracks. Forever!".
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Aug 19, 2014 17:26
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Finally almost done. Not sure what do do with his knuckles. And I guess I'll have to pin his topknot...or find another that is not as cumbersome. 
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Aug 21, 2014 04:38
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So let me see if I get it: GK no longer have Inquisitors, Assassins or henchmen. Inquisition will get their own book that will be battle brothers with GK, while Assassins will get their own dataslate and become available to all imperials. On the bright side, the weapons seem good, GK will be the undisputed masters of Sanctic with hefty warp charges (hello, army-wide +2 Strength on at all times!) and great dispelling, and they lost the whole Psychic Pilot shenanigans. And Draigo finally gets a decent weapon so he can do more than scratch terminator armor. I can see quite a few good armies here, with the big ceveat that anti-tank is now tricky for GK without cheap, troop-slot melta henchmen galore. But they are not the GK armies 80% of the people out there have. I'm glad I got back to my senses right before ordering Draigo, 2 boxes of GK termis and a strike squad back at Maelstrom, thinking "Hey, I can have a second army quite cheap after all!". Warhammer 40k: It's _never_ cheap.
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Aug 21, 2014 18:18
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"First they came for the tyranids, and I didn't speak out because I didn't play nids. Then they came for the tyranids again, and I wrote some posts on dakkadakka. Then they released the new Psychic chart, and I old a chap my spare Tau for cheap. Then 7th came about and my IG had nothing to fear from nids as they missed their one Smash attack on my armor over and over. Now GKs are Force-killing them from afar, but there are no more nid players to feel bad for."
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Aug 21, 2014 22:11
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The GK special characters seem quite good to me. Draigo has perhaps the best artifact weapon other than Drach-nyen, and even then it's a close call. Crowe is a beast with AP2 attacks and re-rolling either his 2+ or his 4++ in challenges: he'll eat supposed uber-duellist Lucius like a light snack, and Kharn as well nine times out of ten. Librarians can abuse the hell out of Sanctic and bring in some Divination as well so your force weapons, be they ranged or CC, hit as much as they can. Gimmicky or broken stuff like Pychostroke grenades and psybolt ammo are gone, but there's a lot of strong stuff left. Even a list not centered around boosting warp charged will dominate the pychic phase handily most of the time. Combine it with the improved Assassins and Inquisition dataslates, or even just plain Astra Militarum, and there's a ton of stuff to do. It's low that they completely borked paladin lists, which were a huge portion of why people played GK, but it was not really unexpected. I really miss the art from the old codex model, though. Also, has anyone else noticed how the vehicle paintjobs in the book pictures looks...really, really lame? Just flat metal with a few heraldic symbols. Looks really different from the infantry armor color style, and it bugs me.
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Aug 24, 2014 00:44
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AbusePuppy posted:Draigo has good fightin' stats and his fixed psychic powers help, but he's still expensive and you have to buy an HQ in addition to him- that's close to 400pts down the drain before you even add a troop model to your army. With the drop from T5 he's much less able to shrug off all those S8 AP2 shots that are the bane of a Paladin unit and while he is putting out a good number of high-strength high-WS attacks, at the end of the day he is pretty identical to the various other 2+/3++ models that strike at initiative and wound on 2s. He's certainly not bad, but he's a huge investment. Fully agreed on psybolts. Scaling them better to who was firing them would have been a much better solution, but it might require, like, 5 -days- of playtesting, which is clearly about 6 days too much. I think they dropped Draigo to T4 because it cheaper to have an apothecary atached to him now, he's still amazingly durable and killy, with his 2+/3++ (so jealous of that combo with my CSM), and able to reach S10 at I5 with his AP2 sword, meaning he'll often get to cause instante death even without turning on his force weapon, which is something those other 2+/3++ guys with Burning blades can't do! And as long as your second HQ is functional, I don't see a 400 point investment in HQs as a waste (assuming a 1850 point game here). Librarians are amazing buff sticks and mesh well with Draigo. Your Deny the witch is more reliable, so you have more dice to spare for channeling the key powers of your strtegy. Even having the specials characters with fixed powers is nice as it lets you do what few other can, which is to pick a power set for a specific strategy (though I'll admit there's not that much variation in the case of GKs).
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Aug 24, 2014 04:20
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Objective secured is almost priceless. Being able to have that last surviving troop that is being trounced by termis or other elites fully claim a nearby objective or deny it to them for an extra turn is great if you're playing Maelstrom. And having it on bikes and other fast movers lets you easily threaten enemy objectives that are being held by non-troops. "So, you're holding your home objective with these Havocs here? Nope, now I am with my jetbikes. Also, I score a d3 VPs this turn thanks to that!"
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Aug 24, 2014 18:51
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That list of Lords of War looks oddly...restrictive. No Nurgle Baneblade or Plague tower of Nurgle? That said, poor Necrons have only a single choice.
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Aug 25, 2014 03:32
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I played 7th for the first time this summer. It was alright, though mostly because I play with very cool, laid-back people. I wish some units had abilities that interact with cards (say, having Scouts of some HQs force the enemy to reveal a random card of his each turn). and it still irks me just how much work it takes to get most CC units into the fray with anything resembling effectiveness.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:45
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The battle report in the latest WD describes the DE bomber as having Dark Scythes, hinting that they have something similar to the Eldar D-scythes. Could be a boon to the ignore-cover-starved DE lineup, especially if it can also be picked by infantry. Other rumors say that Power from Pain is being changed into a progressive buff that change as the turns pass. A bit wonky, since you might not have much stuff left on the table by turn 3 when FNP finally kicks in to give you some durability, and it requires changing haemonculi and wracks both a lot.
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Sep 24, 2014 19:07
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People seem to be freaking out that Vect is missing from the codex, the Warlord Trait table is crap, and other fun stuff also seems to be missing. Seems they also nerfed wych weapons, which is actually funny if you think about it. I'm holding my judgement until I see point costs. Sure, suck that my Baron Sathonix is gone, but if Hellions are cheap now they can still be worth it. Vehicles actually getting Stealth from night shields now for a 3+ jink can make them a lot more survivable. All in all, it seems to be even lazier in design than the GK book, but having started from lower on the pole, it might quickly get back to the niche, one-build-and-only-for-hardcore-fans nature it had before the 2010 book.
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Sep 29, 2014 05:20
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Well, that borks my DE. Baron is gone and there's no option to make an Archon gear up with a board to use the model I converted. My three Ravagers got a bit worse and pricier. My wyches still die to anything and and can't bring a full set of weapons if I put an HQ in with them. Hellions are not nearly cheap enough to be worth the bother. Archons seem almost pathetic now. No decent CC weapons to make use of their sky-high WS and BS; if you're just going to pulps 3+ armor, might as well hang back and shoot rather than risk your T3 warlord with either a 4+ save or an ephemeral 2+. As was the case with Mutilators, Warp Talons. Dark Disciples and Warpsmitsh, GW is not even good enough at game design to make the new model stuff strong. Lelith and Drazhar seem decent, though. Lelith is still way too fragile, especially now that wounds bleed from challenges; she'll often get to kill her target, then be punked by boyz/marines/cultists/etc.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:29
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I just hope this FW chaos book finally does away with the whole "Well, it's a daemon engine, OF COURSE is gets WS 3 and BS 3 like all the others!" mentality. The thing has been shooting/slashing for millenia. Even that basic khorne turdling has WS 5 and BS 5. Let it actually be decent at what it does instead of just giving everything a guardsman level of skill and a 5++! Who am I kidding. WS 8 is for Vindicare assassins, after all.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:14
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SRM posted:Well, depends which CSM we're talking about. The Night Lords are basically space hobos who salvage resources wherever they can. I thought that was mostly the Exalted's warband. Krieg Acerbus' Night Lords seemed to be quite well-supplied, especially for such a massive warband. And in Throne of Lies, even a fraction of the Legion has craptons of ships, armor and weapons. The thing many people forget about chaos forces is that they, unlike most others (except orks) get to keep the stuff from those they defeat. No loyalist chapter would dare refit a captured Chaos ship; they'd likely scuttle it posthaste due to all the corruption and even for beaing a reminder of the Heresy. Chaos marines, on the other hand, are quite happy to help themselves to ships, weaponry, facilities and you name it. So a warband on a winning streak can expand its forces with alarming speed (the new Talon of Horus series seems poised to describe just such an event).
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Oct 5, 2014 00:29
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The missing legions are briefly touched on in The First Heretic, where Word Bearer elite mention how Lorgar was devastated by whatever happenend to them. Later, the primarch brings them up to Magnus, and is told to keep his oath of silence regarding them. Later -still-, during a vision of the past, the same Word Bearer elite guys see one of the missing primarchs in his gestation tube on Terra, and ponder openly about killing him then and there to avoid all the mess that followed. One mentions that doing so would also substantially cut into Ultramarines recuitment, hinting that whatever Astartes that survived the purge (or their geneseed) were pressed into the 13th legion.
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Oct 11, 2014 22:48
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I have to say the new Challenge rules feel...absurd. Is it anything other than a way around LoS? "Hey, sarge is dueling that Nob, let's all go hit it as well!" doesn't sound like much of a challenge or duel. More like two guys stupudly restricting their targets while everyone around just goes on a lynching party. And the new IA book on renegades sounds....so, so good. Hopefully not broken good, but characterful. Rules for vehicles of different campaigns? That's amazing. Sonic dreadnaughts? I've been waiting for that since I started playing 40k! Good to know there's still some semblance of creativity and differentiation left in the company. It also casts a harper contrast on the boring mess that is the current chaos dex. "Sure, World eaters, Night Lords and Thousand Sons' rhinos are all exactly the same, why do you ask? Now, rhinos who fought on this raid on Xerxes, THOSE are a whooole different beast!" I'd hold some hope for the redone CSM book on the way, but given what we've seen of 7th edition codexes so far, which makes 4th edition look like a paradise of multiple choice and flexibility, I know better.
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Oct 15, 2014 01:05
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