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psyopmonkey posted:Me last week: Might.
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May 25, 2014 22:05
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Bung Harmer posted:if you're lucky maybe he'll let you dilate his colon 'vagina' hole. I think the correct term is "rear end-Pussy".
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May 25, 2014 22:08
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psyopmonkey posted:Might not. 
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May 25, 2014 22:08
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psyopmonkey posted:It sounds like transchicks crotches really matter to you. I bet your porn history is hilarious. Well if a Tgirl and a girl is going at it, it really is just like straight porn with more boobies.
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May 25, 2014 22:29
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Sabel posted:Fifth reply There is a not limited discussion that people who are suffering from a body dysmorphic condition who ultimately identify as "trans" ultimately are mentally ill and the method of treatment is assignment to a new gender. This is currently the most efficacious way to deal with what is, literally, a mental health issue. There should be no reason why your brain doesn't match your body. If there is, that is a mental health issue that should be fixed. We do not have the means to fix it. So we treat the symptoms as a caring and compassionate society is able to do so. When the technology and medicine comes along to treat it, the trans community will poo poo the bed because they "won't want to be cured" just like the deaf community has real issues with people who get cochlear implants not fitting into "deaf culture".
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May 28, 2014 22:26
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Sabel posted:My idea of this is whatever prosthetic bioengineering stem cell magic it takes to grow a functional womb, uterus, birth canal, in vitro, and whatever it takes to detect this in the womb and making sure the hormone cocktail deploys correctly. You either have to take the position that the brain is right and the body is wrong (ie, its a genetic issue) or the body is right and the brain is wrong (its a mental health issue). Given our success as a species, it is far more likely that it is the latter than the former. So the medical approach will be whatever therapy, pharmacology or otherwise, that will have someone "re-attune" their sex to their gender. Assuming it is a genetic failing and the brain is correct would follow the same logic as assuming that autists are perfectly normal and should be put pizza and mountain dew because their retard brains told them to be. The brain, just like any other organ, can have defects. We, as a society, have a real issue with wanting to identify issues with the brain, and because of that, we are more than willing to paper-over the mistakes of our children because we put all our hope in them. People like benny the snake or ullillilia should have been institutionalized because they are defective. If we had the science, we could fix them. We don't, which is too bad. So they will live out their lives as mediocre individuals with largely pathetic lives while the rest of us may accomplish whatever we dare to. The broken amongst us cannot be fixed because we don't dare do even acknowledge their defective nature, let alone the need to remove them from a society that enables their ability to be broken. The saddest part is, Elliot was no different.
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May 28, 2014 22:41
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Plom Bar posted:Actually I would say, given that well over 99.776% (700k / 313.9m) of the population figures everything out, yeah. If we huge numbers of people that had real developmental issues figuring this stuff out, maybe I could understand an underlying disconnect somewhere. But you don't get a number like 99.776% with a population that large without having a degree of statistical reliability. You could even inflate the number of trans individuals and it would still not be anywhere near statistically significant. It would be no different than someone saying they discovered the "gay gene". Yes it is controversial to suggest, but the occurrence of homosexuality is documented and vastly more common in a population and doesn't result in other underlying mental problems associated with body dysmorphicism. Any issues there are more with cultural support/oppression. So the two are not comparable, and more realistically, you wouldn't treat a homosexual person as they aren't sick. They don't display signs of mental illness. The person who literally is tormented by their own body is the individual who is having problems. That is a huge red flag for the mental health profession. The sad thing is they do not have the tools in their tool box to fix it. We are no more than aztecs performing trephination for headaches. Our medical science is not advanced enough yet/
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May 28, 2014 22:56
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Snatch Duster posted:Site your sources please. Site my sources on what, the population of trans people in the US? http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-demographics-studies/how-many-people-are-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender/
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May 28, 2014 23:04
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Plom Bar posted:See, this is the thing about statistics: Everything's fine as long as you're like most folks, but what happens when some one's not like most folks? Because it really sounds like that because those folks don't exist in strong enough numbers, you flat out believe that they can't exist. That's logically fallacious, and surely you can see why. You were predicating your position on something that manifested in the body, something that has been in the human condition since the very beginning of time. I would imagine it would have shown up in statistical data by now. Hand waving it away doesn't make my point any less valid about it being a brain issue vs a body issue. So you can keep track: I an putting forward a position that the trans condition is an issue of discordance between the brain and the genetics of the body. The brain is incorrect and it is a mental illness. I believe, based on factual statistics, which I have cited, that there is not a sufficient population on this planet of earth, to make any reasonable claim that the trans condition is anything other than a damaged organ (the brain) needing to be fixed by medical science we do not yet possess. You are putting forward a counter position that the trans condition is in fact the genetics of the body, and the brain is correct. You further refute the population data I have submitted by saying that because the population is too small, I won't count it. However: It is precisely because the population is too small that proves my point. This is no different than any other group with a specific mental disorder that manifests rarely. They vehemently protest against the classification of their disease as anything other than persecution by others. They demand treatment, yet when they don't get the treatment they want, they seek advocacy and a different doctor. Do you know what it is called? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons) You also run into this with these people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity) We, as a society, are simply using the technology we have now to do what we can for the folks afflicted with this illness. We treat the symptoms as they occur.
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May 28, 2014 23:22
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psyopmonkey posted:Im cool with your stance. If given the option of taking a pill (or insert whatever tech here) to fix my brain or HRT a few years ago, I would have just fixed my brain. I don't doubt it! I don't have an issue with what we have technologically, and I am fully endorsing the rights of LGBT individuals. Live and let live. The recognition simply needs to be that there is a problem and we need to spend the necessary time to fix it. Too many folks suffer, and I think if given the choice of a medication to realign their gender, I think many people would take it and not look back.
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May 28, 2014 23:32
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Plom Bar posted:It, um, has. You think English-speaking first world nations are the only places that have trans people? I don't debate that. I simply want recognition that this is a mental disorder and that when we have the means to treat the minds of those afflicted, then the current transitioning methodology will be similar to using trepanning for headaches.
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May 28, 2014 23:34
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Maoist Pussy posted:For instance, male homosexuals are useful for guiding straight people on matters of fashion, dancing and sexual morality. Female homosexuals are good for doing sex things. So, while you would want to abort for detectable congenital or developmental disorders, it isn't a good idea to abort for gay. That is why the idea of trans being a genetic or developmental issue is fairly abhorrent to me. You essentially get into a eugenics argument from a utilitarian perspective. From a mental health perspective, the likelihood that the brain itself grew abnormally, or had some defect that can be treated beyond transitioning (with later medical research) is paramount to the happiness of the individual. People will still be able to transition, but it will be those that chose not to receive treatment for their defective brains early on when the brain is more malleable (when they are younger).
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May 28, 2014 23:45
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acephalousuniverse posted:why do you want that recognition, which is in opposition of the opinions of people who actually know what they're talking about I would say the lifetime of treatment, stimga, suffering, all the angst, therapy and more treatment. If I tell your parents I can give you a 30 day course of medication for you to never worry about this again, your parents are going to give you the meds, no matter what the cost. It will be a slam dunk and there will be literally no questions asked.
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May 28, 2014 23:47
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Mrenda posted:Practically, I can't see how such a powerful medication would be developed. It would never be allowed to be trialled on humans and so would never be released. Israel, China, Japan. It will be where those drugs will be trialed, developed in the US, London and Israel. Gotta know your demo.
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May 28, 2014 23:51
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acephalousuniverse posted:ah yes because every other mental illness has a treatment that just consists of taking medication for 30 days and never worrying about it again, this is a realistic comparison There is a huge market for treatment using psychedelics for treatment that show long-term affects without a daily dose including resolving PTSD, stress, anxiety, etc. Research is being funded privately for these drugs because they have been heavily suppressed since Nixon's War on Drugs.
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May 28, 2014 23:53
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psyopmonkey posted:Kinda like giving prepubescent male transgender kids spironolactone to pause puberty. That way they can have a more successful transition later on, should they choose to? If the male child is already diagnosed with a body dysmorphic condition, I would say that is probably for their health, yes. However, the societal pressure of them taking that drug would almost be worse, not better. This would be a huge challenge. I imagine there are no easy answers when you are trying to weigh the needs of the child vs. the needs of the future adult.
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May 28, 2014 23:55
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Plom Bar posted:You know, whenever this idea comes up, it is 100%, without fail, a heterosexual man expressing fear over finding a penis where they expect a vagina. It is never a homosexual man fearing finding a vagina, nor a woman fearing finding a [_____], just straight guys worried about a surprise schween. Any thoughts as to why this is? It is because when you look at someone who is presenting their gender as, in this case, a woman, you automatically expect certain things. If you find out something different, they effectively lied to you. You have been mislead because they misrepresented themselves from the moment you saw them. This lie is perpetrated by the trans individual and persists as long as they do not perform SRS. This results in situations where they will always be lying to everyone who looks at them. It is not unreasonable with 99.77% of the population being normal to expect the person you are looking at to have the normal equipment. Finding the wrong equipment means the fundamental assumptions you made are wrong, and you now question everything else. This has nothing to do with Men finding a penis. That is just the most accessible example that causes people to recognize the problem.
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May 29, 2014 18:58
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Plom Bar posted:That doesn't explain poo poo. When any person sees a woman or a man, they can categorize them. This is how the human brain works. This general categorization is how we function as social animals. Our social structure requires us to know how to operate, and we snap-analyze a huge number of factors. How the person is dressed, their sex appeal, their race, their gender, everything. Because of this, this generates our impression of the individual. This impression changes as we get to know the person, obviously. As might be expected, as things grow and change, if your initial analysis is wrong, you begin to question what else you were wrong about. People don't like being mislead, it creates fear and unknown. The human condition is to fear what they don't know. Misrepresenting yourself is the quickest way to cause a person to not trust you. This is why in the business world, if you do not go "Best Foot Forward" and then people find out, you are a pariah. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.
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May 29, 2014 19:13
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Plom Bar posted:The fact that you continue to insist on using gender-neutral language indicates that you're not getting it, so here it is in caps-locked bold underlined italics. I don't think anyone has ever experienced fear. I just don't believe anyone, male or female, likes being mislead and lied to. This is what is called being a "bad ally". You are fighting the wrong agenda and not really helping the rights of Trans folks integrate properly. Proper integration would include helping the trans community be more accepted by society at large, not be excluded. The trans community should be working to recognize the issues with misleading when "passing" and work to correct that misrepresentation.
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May 29, 2014 19:22
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Plom Bar posted:If you're uncomfortable with the word "fear", you big baby, then replace it with whatever synonym you prefer and answer the loving question, which is this: Why is it that only heterosexual men ever bring this [synonym for fear]? Trans panic is a similar defense applied towards cases where the victim is a transgender or intersex person. This defense often fails, and has been ruled inadmissible in many jurisdictions[4][5] because of a complete lack of scientific research to support it. 4 Green, Richard (1992). Sexual Science and the Law. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. pp. 247–251. ISBN 978-0674802681. 5 Carter, Terry (Aug 12, 2013). "‘Gay panic’ criminal defense strategies should be curtailed by legislation, ABA House resolves". ABA Journal. Retrieved 8 April 2014. You don't have to be rude. I am being very clear, there is no such thing as fear, and there is no rational basis in law or science to support your claims that anyone experiences this. A bigoted individual may experience hatred when they have been mislead and found an intersexed person in front of them, but that is it. You are being disingenuous.
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May 29, 2014 20:08
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Plom Bar posted:And you're being a pompous rear end in a top hat. Whatever you want to call it, SOMETHING drives HETEROSEXUAL MEN to always be the ones to bring up the concern of finding a pole where they expect a hole and use that as justification for demanding trans people to jump through a million hoops for them. If it's not fear, then it's something else that causes these people to outright MURDER trans people over it. I'm not saying the trans panic defense is effective, but it is used. And it's always heterosexual men who bring it up! Always! And you still haven't answered that question because you're still smokescreening with this pseudo-enlightened "there is no such thing as fear" bullshit. The mere idea that trans people are being mass-murdered is ludicrous and intellectually insulting. If you have no desire to have a real discussion, just admit it. There has been a very limited number of trans individuals murdered because of their trans status. This has happened to every minority since the beginning of ever because of being a minority. The trans community is not special in the oppression Olympics. They are simply the latest entrants. They are like the Jamaica bobsled team of oppression. They are loud, get alot of attention, but really aren't a huge deal compared to the other teams in terms of impact.
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May 29, 2014 20:18
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psyopmonkey posted:Yah mon, we be jammin. Haitians are real fun to work with, until someone says something they don't like, or they see something they don't like. Then they become a big ball of rage. I only worked with 3 in my life so far, but each one was very similar. They also hated gay people like no-ones business. Bad for customer-facing work.
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May 29, 2014 20:23
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Plom Bar posted:Who the gently caress said anything about mass murder? You're grasping at straws to avoid answering a very straightforward question. Hell, you can even take murder completely out of it. Whenever some one brings up the whole TRANS PEOPLE HAVING SEX IS RAPE argument, it is always, 100%, without fail, heterosexual men. Why do you think that is? I never brought that up. I think other people arguing in bad faith did. I brought up that it is misleading to present as one gender, and be, in fact, another. This effects all people equally. Just because you have a problem with non-homosexual men pointing out their distaste of it, doesn't mean the point isn't valid. I would also point out that it is inaccurate, given that the trans community often complains of the "cotton ceiling" and how they are not considered potential partners by women. Women do not want to be surprised either. So please stop making this out to be a singular issue for just one group of people when you know full well it is not.
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May 29, 2014 20:30
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Plom Bar posted:You're right. You didn't bring it up. I actually asked another person, and you took it upon yourself to offer an answer that had nothing to do with what I was asking, as you have here. I have given you an answer. It just isn't the answer you want so you can have your little E-argument "victory" hollow of meaning or value. Stop trying to beat people who actually want to help the movement. Not everyone is against the Trans community, and just because you disagree on something doesn't make you an enemy. This is the discourse used to shame people into not being allies. Stop pushing people away.
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May 29, 2014 20:35
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Plom Bar posted:Your idea of helping the movement is inventing a pill that cleanses people's brains of traits you find undesirable, and you then derisively predict the majority of those people affected would likely refuse to take the pill anyway. Your help isn't needed or wanted. I think if there was a pill that removed any mental illness, the person would elect to take it. You are simply being obtuse because you find it unpalatable. I also never said they wouldn't take it. I said they would reject the notion that they had any reason to be "cured" once they had the agency to choose. When you are young, and your parents have agency, they will choose for you to take the medicine, ensuring that you will not have the option. The problem will remove itself from society in a couple generations and it will be a thing of the past. Modern medicine will prevail, but yes, it will be distasteful, because we have to accept what our current means are for treating the symptoms of the mental illness. acephalousuniverse posted:Thank god the forums were detumblrfied because heavy moderation was definitely not preferable to white supremacists and homophobes posting openly. I am not sure there are any white supremacists or homophobes on the forums. The forums are still very heavily moderated and provide very clear guidelines on what is acceptable and what isn't. You are simply unhappy that self-identify as "social justice warriors" (Who would make people who actually advocate for social justice sick to their stomachs) are pariahs because they are no longer allowed to silence the majority of the population. This is called a tyranny of the minority.
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May 29, 2014 21:24
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acephalousuniverse posted:You think the two people in this thread who want to add homosexuality back into the DSM aren't homophobes? OK. But yeah I'm unhappy that bad posters aren't silenced anymore, it was a pretty good era of the forums when they were. No one has advocated adding homosexuality back into the DSM. If they had, it hasn't been since I have been reading. Also, you are unhappy that individuals that should never have been in charge were put in charge of other people and then punished based on their perspectives, not based on any actual rules. You are no different than individuals that want a theocratic government wanting to oppress dissension. This is why the far left and the far right are so very, very similar. It is sad how quickly they want to strip away the rights and freedoms of everyone, just for different reasons.
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May 29, 2014 21:36
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Should be sleeping posted:That's funny, the only goon I ever knew IRL decided that he wanted to be a woman. His screen name was ikikaju or some anime poo poo like that. This is a very normal reaction. You expressed your opinion about the mental illness your friend was suffering from, and you, further still, wanted them to seek therapy before they started began misrepresenting themselves to perfect strangers. Instead, they ended your friendship because you were not the perfect ally. This comes up time and time again and it is the same attitude when someone says that their job isn't to "educate you". Don't hold yourself responsible.
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May 29, 2014 22:07
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Fireless Phoenix posted:wait, do you mean dude as in dude dude or dude as in was a chick, now a dude? In the common vernacular, a "dude" is a man baby.
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May 29, 2014 22:09
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acephalousuniverse posted:If the forums had not been detumblrfied we would never be able to read funny posts like this. You have not actually articulated why you are so upset with the forums in their current state. You call out particular posts, but you have not really expressed the reasons certain language upsets you. Perhaps discussing it would help everyone seek to understand.
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May 29, 2014 22:36
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mookface posted:What is the protocol for telling someone you may become romantically involved with that you used to be a man once you are woman If you have completed SRS, then you tell them somewhere comfortable. You put on something more "comfortable", maybe a little Barry White, drink a little wine, and then tell them you are a bit different. You know, play it by ear.
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May 29, 2014 22:54
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Maoist Pussy posted:You are an MRA and a rape apologist. He's also a big fan of Star Trek and Dr. Who. He is basically the biggest Goon ever. Welcome to the Jungle.
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May 29, 2014 22:58
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Plom Bar posted:Lying awake in fear of the trans rapist bogeyman who somehow doesn't realize that there are easier ways to have sex with men than transitioning. I think the point is once you have transitioned, you are kinda stuck in your options in how you are supposed to pursue sex with other individuals. There are far fewer fish in the ocean, so to speak. So as Mr. Rodgers demonstrated this week, desperation and mental illness can get the best of some people.
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May 29, 2014 23:00
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As we have already established, "Gay Panic" has no basis in legal or scientific fact. Giving it any credibility, and even using it in your arguments is not only intellectually dishonest, but it shows you are being disingenuous. You cannot help but recognize that by advocating these harmful positions that you are not supporting the cause of integration and civil rights for trans individuals. This doesn't make you a good or even moderate ally. This makes you an out and out bad ally. You are actively working against them because you are taking people who actually work for trans rights, people like me, and making me spend time that could be best spent working for their benefit, and instead use that time to diffuse your impact. It is sad that your ignorance and the ignorance of others hurts so many people.
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May 29, 2014 23:09
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acephalousuniverse posted:How do you work for trans rights Volunteer for PRIDE. Have for a number of years now. Its a big deal.
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May 29, 2014 23:14
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Smoking Crow posted:can you guys find new ways to hate troons I don't hate anyone. I want rights and freedoms for everyone! I also want everyone to receive the mental healthcare they desperately deserve.
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May 29, 2014 23:15
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acephalousuniverse posted:Provide evidence No problem. I am current scanning the first of 12 slices of the 12-foot PRIDE banner with my company logo on it. I run the volunteer coordination effort for my company too. I can upload all 12 images to IMGUR when i'm done. You will have to page through them unless imgur has a way for me to stitch them togeather.
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May 29, 2014 23:21
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Plom Bar posted:Yeah, and I bet all those folks are real grateful that you silently long for the day when they can all just take a magic pill and you won't have to deal with them anymore. I love everyone, not "those folks". I just want them to get better. So I do what any good person does, which is support the community until such time that we can remove their problems entirely.
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May 29, 2014 23:23
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acephalousuniverse posted:Please post it. Question in meantime, do you feel as if the fact that you advocate that trans people should not be proud of their identities and instead take a pill to nullify that identity is on a basic level in contradiction to the goals of PRIDE PRIDE is trying to advance the rights and freedoms of those in the LGBTQ community. I would imagine that, yes, it would be a contradiction to their goals in some ways, in others it would be the ultimate victory. Because if the person was able to match the gender they were meant to be from the get go, they would have all the rights, freedoms, etc, and none of the institutionalized oppression faced by the LGBTQ community. It stands to reason that fixing the individual is easier than fixing the community with such a small percentage of individuals in the trans community. Edit: Part 3/12 done.
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May 29, 2014 23:28
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acephalousuniverse posted:Your solution for eliminating bigotry is to eliminate the group that is being victimized, in other words EMILY BLUNTS posted:This is where people are going to see things differently. Plom Bar posted:Y'ever say any of this out loud when they're around? I bet that you don't. I figure you probably realize that they would react with hostility to the idea that they need to be fixed with your magic drug. You've expressed as much numerous times already. And of course, you don't for second consider that maybe they might have a point, and instead choose to believe that this hostility would just be them being angry at you for not being the perfect ally. So you're all smiles and sunshine when they're around, because otherwise they might become ungrateful for all the surely wonderful work that you've done. You think they can't handle this truth that is so self-evident to you. We are not doing anything as coarse as "eliminating" the group being victimized. Stop being a victim. The group is being converted from an oppressed class to a non-oppressed class using the mental-realignment drug. This 30-day drug allows the mind to recognize the genetic makeup of the body, and recognize the mistakes it was making, fix itself, and voila! Problems solved. Body dysmorphia solved, no needs for hormones, SRS, therapy, nothing! A life of happy normalcy, relationships, love, children, the works. If you are angry about that, maybe you don't actually know enough trans people to really love them enough to do what is right for them, as opposed to what they want. Sometimes it takes a person or a group of people to come along to make hard decisions about the fate of another group of people that will make their lives better, in the end. This would help them. They may disagree initially, but would they would see it. part 7/12 done.
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May 29, 2014 23:36
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acephalousuniverse posted:Your way of advocating for the rights and freedoms of a group is by forcing them to take a drug against their will which fundamentally changes the way their brain works. I think a more accurate statement is that it corrects the way their brain works. It is no more different than if we required a vaccine that prevented developmental disorders (If plom is to be believed).
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May 29, 2014 23:41
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