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hail science fiction satan
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May 28, 2014 20:47
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| # ? May 17, 2024 18:33 |
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Here's a pretty amusing story from my mormon youth. When I was teacher's quorum president as a teenager it was my responsibility to provide the bread that would be used in the sacrament meeting. Rather than using tasteless 99 cent white bread from the bread aisle, I procured some expensive, delicious whole grain organic wheat bread. I thought this was a great idea because we're always supposed to give the Lord the best parts of ourselves, right? Haha, how naive I was. The teacher quorum advisor sat me down and explained that we use cheap disgusting white bread because the white color is symbolic of Jesus and the atonement. How loving stupid is that?
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May 28, 2014 20:51
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I will take the Church seriously with regards to social reforms when they ex-communicate and publicly denounce every single church member who was ever associated with Evergreen International and the rather ethically murky practice of aversion therapy to "cure" homosexuality.
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May 28, 2014 20:51
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remember when one of these crazy people almost became president
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May 28, 2014 20:52
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First I'm gonna deal chaoslord, the dumb poo poo. chaoslord posted:You said women and gays don't get leadership positions. I point out that they do. It's not what you are looking for, no, but the only thing you are looking for is for me to go 'welp, I guess I was wrong, it's all a sham'. What I'm doing in my ward to push for reforms does not matter because no matter what it is it won't be good enough for you and this thread isn't about what I'm doing anyway. Your examples are what republicans do when they point to Allen West and Sarah Palin about being inclusive. It's not about specific positions, it's about influence. West and Palin don't advocate equality for their race/gender within the party platform, do they? All of the power within your church hierarchy is held by old white men. They refuse to change unless they are forced to in order to comply with state/federal law. They don't do poo poo due to inside pressure, because there really isn't any. Reformation of the church won't work because you guys don't have the balls to splinter off, and they know that. A bunch of cowards being run by evil shitheads, some church. chaoslord posted:No, we don't literally convert dead relatives in order to gain status in the afterlife. My eternal destination has zero to do with how many baptisms for the dead I am a part of. If I did none or if I did a million, the only difference would be I'd feel a lot better about doing a million because I helped a million people out (potentially). And as far as my defense of it? When I was a Baptist, I thought it was pretty cool when my LDS friends told me about it. If I was right, it didn't matter that they wasted all their time reading my name and baptizing some dude because it wasn't real, and if they were right then my buddies were lookin out for me. If I wanted it. Because... Well fine, I guess it's a posthumous baptism instead of conversion. Score one for the pedantic piece poo poo. You're still wrong on my main point because... chaoslord posted:This isn't true either. We perform the ordinance, and they get to decide if they want to become members of the Church. We believe baptism is an essential ordinance, so we make sure everyone gets baptized. It's up to them, on the other side, to accept it or not. It's not a forced conversion. That poo poo is till done without their consent. If Non-consensual baptism is violating someone's agency, just like non-consensual sex. I should have the right to refuse being baptized, not just the right to accept the fact that I was baptized. Again, just like sex. And in case you forgot, having sex with a carcass is considered non-consensual. Good job advocating spirit rape, tho. comes along bort posted:the funny thing is the modern mormon church and the 19th century version are almost two entirely separate entities. their current culture is pretty much a function of trying to fit into postwar mainstream american society (funnily enough the growth of las vegas had a lot to do with it as well). the church as it was when they were out there by themselves was like most settler areas: far more communitarian and borderline socialist. racist as all hell and ready to fight the us government at the drop of a hat, but still totally different from today's church which is more of a business than anything else, which again las vegas was a major catalyst for that change Yeah, it's interesting to see the transition and when it took place. Riders of the Desert Sage is a good book about mormon life back in the wild west. I do think it's wrong to compare it to a communitarian/socialist society. They were really distrustful of gentiles and usually openly hostile towards them (see the mountain meadows massacre). It wasn't until the industrial age that they really became corporatized, and I believe that was done so because they were literally forced to change at gunpoint. Then in the modern era, thanks to vegas they took the corporate management style and blended it into their church. And that's why regular mormons will never get the church to change its doctrine. It'd be like a walmart greeter convincing sam walton to raise wages. Ethan_Alan fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 20:55
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chaoslord posted:When I was a Baptist, well that explains it Ethan_Alan posted:Yeah, it's interesting to see the transition and when it took place. Riders of the Desert Sage is a good book about mormon life back in the wild west. I do think it's wrong to compare it to a communitarian/socialist society. They were really distrustful of gentiles and usually openly hostile towards them (see the mountain meadows massacre). well yeah it's not what we would think of today as a modern democratic socialist state or anything, but they had a lot in common out of necessity with other frontier societies, with the exception of being more antagonistic toward outsiders than usual have you ever read rough stone rolling? Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 20:59
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May 28, 2014 21:09
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I get so loving turned on by the color red.
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May 28, 2014 21:09
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ppl serioudly trying to own somebody out of their religious beliefs itt lmao hail satan, jesus' brother
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May 28, 2014 21:13
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Jesus can I get a trigger warning on that next time?
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May 28, 2014 21:15
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this thread is taking a turn for everything that was ever wrong with helldump I mean there's plenty to complain about re: mormons without dogpiling on him about the same disingenuous poo poo that every religion does - not because other religions doing bad stuff too makes it okay, but because it's the wrong thread
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May 28, 2014 21:21
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Ethan_Alan posted:Non-consensual baptism is violating someone's agency, just like non-consensual sex. I should have the right to refuse being baptized, not just the right to accept the fact that I was baptized. Again, just like sex. And in case you forgot, having sex with a carcass is considered non-consensual. If you're a vegetarian and I buy you a burger (and I totally told the dude that is making it that I'm buying it for Ethan_Alan) did I violate your agency to be a vegetarian? I'd say no. Just like with the baptism done for you (burger bought for you), you can turn it down (throw the burger away). And now you can tell me why your rape analogy was good but my burger analogy is bad, and then I'll drop it so that we don't make the thread about just you and me arguing back and forth. Ethan_Alan posted:Riders of the Desert Sage is a good book Always on the look for a good book though. Couldn't find anything by this name. Quick search shows Riders of the Purple Sage, is that what you meant? Actually that looks like a fiction book so probably not. I'll keep looking, I'm probably just missing it. comes along bort posted:have you ever read rough stone rolling? Know this wasn't directed at me, but how is that book? I think about picking it up every now and again
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May 28, 2014 21:34
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:remember when one of these crazy people almost became president That's what gets me. The country would never vote a Jew in, even though Christians share the same beliefs (at least Old Testament-wise), yet the Republican Candidate was a guy who may as well have claimed his religion as Jedi. I think people figured "Mormon...Jesus is in there somewhere...let's do it!" Surprising enough that we could rally enough people to vote a half-Lamanite in.
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May 28, 2014 21:35
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chaoslord posted:If you're a vegetarian and I buy you a burger (and I totally told the dude that is making it that I'm buying it for Ethan_Alan) did I violate your agency to be a vegetarian? I'd say no. Just like with the baptism done for you (burger bought for you), you can turn it down (throw the burger away). there is a difference between a burger and trying to take over your immortal soul so your crazy cult can sacrifice virgins or w/e
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May 28, 2014 21:36
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mormonism really gives me the heebie jeebies, luckily we only have evangelical snake handlers here
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May 28, 2014 21:41
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Ilikedirt posted:ppl serioudly trying to own somebody out of their religious beliefs itt This thread is the Mormon War, and I'm Missouri. chaoslord posted:If you're a vegetarian and I buy you a burger (and I totally told the dude that is making it that I'm buying it for Ethan_Alan) did I violate your agency to be a vegetarian? I'd say no. Just like with the baptism done for you (burger bought for you), you can turn it down (throw the burger away). The difference is while I can turn away a burger before I eat it, the baptism was already performed on me (my soul, specifically) so I have no way of rejecting it. You didn't get my spirit's permission to perform those rites on me, you went ahead and did it with the expectation that I'd thank you afterwards. And yeah it's purple sage, my bad. It is fiction, and romanticism at that, but it's still fairly accurate in terms of mormon communities back in those times. bort posted:well yeah it's not what we would think of today as a modern democratic socialist state or anything, but they had a lot in common out of necessity with other frontier societies, with the exception of being more antagonistic toward outsiders than usual Yeah, you're right. My sticking point was it's hostility towards outsiders. Most frontier towns were pretty antagonistic towards non-european immigrants in general, but the mormons didn't really like anyone who wasn't of their faith. I see that as a big enough difference to separate the two. I haven't read that book either, though. I should check it out though. Ethan_Alan fucked around with this message at 21:57 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 21:46
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Coldbird posted:this thread is taking a turn for everything that was ever wrong with helldump I know dude, it's like these people don't know that the forums are for ciclejerking threads about ponies. /sarcasm I was raised by mormons. I've been hurt by mormons. I'll dogpile on him all I want if I get some mild entertainment out of it. We've been talking about specific criticisms of the mormon church and its members: baptism for the dead, homosexual aversion therapy, a ludicrous sacred text that is overly fascinated with genocide and claims native americans are actually israelites. Luckily there are also some church member goons who want to be in on the conversation and argue with us. We indulge eachother and it's actually quite fun. Don't come in here and poo poo up what the thread has become just because you aren't in on the joke. Read all the anti-mormon literature you can find, chaoslord. It's good for you. Console Role Player fucked around with this message at 21:51 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 21:48
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i've never met a mormon who didn't, when you looked them in the eye, just seem loving retarded. they're like deer or something, with this soft, watery, unintelligent animal-look. mormons be dumb as gently caress
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May 28, 2014 21:53
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my favorite thing in this thread is where that enormous idiot argued women weren't excluded from leadership positions because there's some sort of women's auxiliary you know who else favored gendered roles in the home and, at best, in some sort of supporting auxiliary? 
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May 28, 2014 21:56
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the only cool thing about the mormons is their weird theocratic socialism. too bad they pretty much gave that up and now just spend all their money on gaudy rear end temples
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May 28, 2014 22:00
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There are quite a few national chains with Mormon influence.
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May 28, 2014 22:03
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Honestly, as an atheist, I think the whole idea of baptizing all the non-Mormons after death is kind of endearing. It's like when a kid tells you that their imaginary friend thinks you're cool. Regardless of what the reality of the situation is, it doesn't mean anything other than the fact that the person saying it probably kind of cares for you, at least on some level (unless they're doing it in the typical "I will pray for you" passive aggressive sort of way). I guess I could see how it might be troubling for people of other religions, though.
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May 28, 2014 22:11
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Devils Affricate posted:Honestly, as an atheist, I think the whole idea of baptizing all the non-Mormons after death is kind of endearing. It's like when a kid tells you that their imaginary friend thinks you're cool. Regardless of what the reality of the situation is, it doesn't mean anything other than the fact that the person saying it probably kind of cares for you, at least on some level (unless they're doing it in the typical "I will pray for you" passive aggressive sort of way). there's a reason that stuff is endearing when children do it and hella freaky when grown adults do it
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May 28, 2014 22:15
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Ethan_Alan posted:That poo poo is till done without their consent. If lmao this nigga really care what happen to he body when he dead. smh I'm gonna baptize ur gay rear end corpse in the name of The Lord of rear end-sodomy when you're dead and there is nothing u can do about it "Who cares about flowers when you're dead" - Holden caufield
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May 28, 2014 22:16
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That's funny because I'm an atheist but I despise the notion of baptizing the dead. I know it doesn't actually do anything, but I liken it to desecrating a corpse, and disrespecting the memory of the individual being baptized. You shouldn't be able to use the dead as a spiritual poker chip, regardless if there's an afterlife or not. Change my name to Lord of rear end-sodomy plz, tia.
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May 28, 2014 22:17
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Coldbird posted:this thread is taking a turn for everything that was ever wrong with helldump like mormons funding research into electroshock therapy to "cure" a case of the gay
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May 28, 2014 22:20
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Fandyien posted:there's a reason that stuff is endearing when children do it and hella freaky when grown adults do it Yeah, I guess it's kind of weird/creepy. And as I was writing that post I realized that there was no good way to say what I wanted to say without sounding condescending, which I think kind of says something on its own. I guess my point was that out of all the things the Mormons do and stand for, the post mortem baptisms are pretty harmless and probably not worth worrying about. It's definitely not on the same level as literal rape; that's ridiculous.
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May 28, 2014 22:20
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:the only cool thing about the mormons is their weird theocratic socialism. too bad they pretty much gave that up and now just spend all their money on gaudy rear end temples ,malls, and all the non-church owned media in their immediate area. edit: changed one of the links to a less inflammatory one.
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May 28, 2014 22:22
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Ethan_Alan posted:That's funny because I'm an atheist but I despise the notion of baptizing the dead. I know it doesn't actually do anything, but I liken it to desecrating a corpse, and disrespecting the memory of the individual being baptized. You shouldn't be able to use the dead as a spiritual poker chip, regardless if there's an afterlife or not. I just want to confirm that I can in fact baptize you in the name of The Lord of rear end sodomy as long as i don't baptize you in the name of the Mormon god(totally different gods, I swear)
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May 28, 2014 22:22
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Ethan_Alan posted:That's funny because I'm an atheist but I despise the notion of baptizing the dead. I know it doesn't actually do anything, but I liken it to desecrating a corpse, and disrespecting the memory of the individual being baptized. You shouldn't be able to use the dead as a spiritual poker chip, regardless if there's an afterlife or not. If they showed up at the person's funeral or took other steps to make it clear to the dead person's loved ones that yes, they baptized them in the name of this faith that the deceased wanted nothing to do with, then that would be pretty assholeish. If they're just doing it as part of one of their Mormon ceremonies over in Mormon land, it doesn't really make any difference.
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May 28, 2014 22:22
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Sojourn posted:,malls, and all the non-church owned media in their immediate area. The NBC syndicate here (KSL) owned by the LDS church refused to air Hannibal. I don't know if that has changed, however.
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May 28, 2014 22:23
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Ethan_Alan posted:The difference is while I can turn away a burger before I eat it, the baptism was already performed on me (my soul, specifically) so I have no way of rejecting it. You didn't get my spirit's permission to perform those rites on me, you went ahead and did it with the expectation that I'd thank you afterwards. As for the Mormon posthumous baptism thing, what do you suppose it's like for the folks on the receiving end? They're all resting peacefully, when out of the blue someone asks them if they're satisfied with their salvation provider? What I'm saying is that Mormons are the dipshit telemarketers of the afterlife.
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May 28, 2014 22:24
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Random Hajile posted:It's a lovely analogy because ordering a hamburger for someone you know is a vegetarian is a dick thing to do. It doesn't matter if they can turn it down or not. maybe if Buddhism is true then its when after you are reincarnated and they come knock on your door to annoy the gently caress out of you??
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May 28, 2014 22:27
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ashgromnies posted:I just want to confirm that I can in fact baptize you in the name of The Lord of rear end sodomy as long as i don't baptize you in the name of the Mormon god(totally different gods, I swear) Yeah, you asked and I gave consent. Any god that allows me to have caffeine is a good god (I know mormon god says pepsi is cool now, but gently caress him all the same). Devils Affricate posted:If they showed up at the person's funeral or took other steps to make it clear to the dead person's loved ones that yes, they baptized them in the name of this faith that the deceased wanted nothing to do with, then that would be pretty assholeish. If they're just doing it as part of one of their Mormon ceremonies over in Mormon land, it doesn't really make any difference. It doesn't make any difference to us, sure. But I'm sure you can see how some deeply spiritual person would take offense. Also, I thought they did these baptisms in secret. I'd like it more if they did contact the deceased relatives and said they baptized them. At least then it's honest.
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May 28, 2014 22:27
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Ethan_Alan posted:I know mormon god says pepsi is cool now It's sorta amusing and alarming how church doctrine gets more and more lax as the years go by. Really drives the point home that none of this poo poo matters and WOULD YOU PLEASE PLEASE STAY AND CONTINUE PAYING YOUR TITHING AND MAKING LITTLE MORMONS FOR US TO EXPLOIT. 
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May 28, 2014 22:40
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chaoslord posted:Know this wasn't directed at me, but how is that book? I think about picking it up every now and again it's a good companion to fawn brodie's biography. bushman makes it pretty explicit upfront that it's an apologetic for smith above all else, but the biography's pretty well-researched even though it's mostly done in the shadow of brodie's work Ethan_Alan posted:Yeah, you're right. My sticking point was it's hostility towards outsiders. Most frontier towns were pretty antagonistic towards non-european immigrants in general, but the mormons didn't really like anyone who wasn't of their faith. I see that as a big enough difference to separate the two. I haven't read that book either, though. I should check it out though. their treatment of "gentiles", and the subquent aftermath, in every town they wound up in on the way to utah definitely presaged their later confrontation with the us government. of course looking back at smith's family history of welshing on farm debts it's not hard to see where the attitude came from Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 22:40
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i am having a communication with mormon god att. apparently blacks are off the list again. sorry
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May 28, 2014 22:45
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i know god is real because i saw him after taking a LOT of psychedelics
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May 28, 2014 22:51
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turns out it wasnt mormon god though, it was the fuckin jew god. lame
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May 28, 2014 22:51
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| # ? May 17, 2024 18:33 |
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It's funny because eventually the prophet is gonna have a revelation and say, "All right guys! God says it's all right for you homos to rear end gently caress eachother now! It wasn't before but now it is I guess!"
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May 28, 2014 22:51
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