UKMT June: Emu was Rod Hull's patsy

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT June: Emu was Rod Hull's patsy

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

tentish klown posted:

There's shelter available for that price, just not in prime east London.

Goddamm you're an utter wankstain.

Fluo posted:

That is a dumb statement though, I'm not the biggest fan of the army but someone has to do it. Or would you rather bring back conscription?

Ehm. No they don't?

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:01

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# ? May 2, 2024 15:25

baka kaba: Jul 19, 2003; PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Fluo posted:

If either of these were a trans killing you'd be talking about it for years.

Would either of those incredibly rare occurrences have been prevented by giving soldiers protected status though? Soldiers aren't a persecuted minority, politically motivated murders aren't the same thing

tentish klown posted:

There's shelter available for that price, just not in prime east London.

There was already shelter available for that price, they're living in it. But someone decided they had the power to demand much more, and kick out anyone who couldn't/wouldn't pay. Don't act like ~what the market will bear~ frees you from moral justification or the consequences it has on people's lives

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:02

tentish klown: Apr 3, 2011

Seaside Loafer posted:

Maybe their friends, their families, their communities and the schools their children go to are there as opposed to being in a small hamlet in the outer hebrides.

My colleagues, in a company of 8 people, come from Australia, the US, France, Poland, and the UK. Transport is a thing these days.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:02

nuzak: Feb 13, 2012

Fluo posted:

Politics and science shouldn't mix*. It can fog your judgement and make you a bad scientist (on both sides of the fence).

*Political science is different to Science.

His point, in the first video, is that they are fundamentally inseparable and acting as if they aren't does you no favours. In this regard, he is a much better scientist then Richard Dawkins.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:06

Serotonin: Jul 14, 2001; The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

tentish klown posted:

My colleagues, in a company of 8 people, come from Australia, the US, France, Poland, and the UK. Transport is a thing these days.

You have no loving idea about anything outside your cosseted little rich boy experience and no interest in learning or understanding, do you?
I hope I live to see the day that toff fuckstains like you are dragged from their beds with piano wire and hanged from lamposts.

sadly I wont coz Im old

Serotonin fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 30, 2014

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:06

Seaside Loafer: Feb 7, 2012; Waiting for a train, I needed a shit. You won't bee-lieve what happened next

tentish klown posted:

My colleagues, in a company of 8 people, come from Australia, the US, France, Poland, and the UK. Transport is a thing these days.

I would suggest that:
a) remote working is not a thing available to a nurse
b) regular lengthy plane flights are generally not available to the poors
c) skype while nice for exhange of information and to keep in touch does not a interpersonal human relationship make
d) i suspect you are just taking the piss

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:07

EvilGenius: May 2, 2006; Death to the Black Eyed Peas

tentish klown posted:

Why the gently caress shouldn't they be beholden to the market when everyone else is? Accommodation in east London is a rare commodity, if I wanted to live there, which i would quite like to but don't want to pay the rent, I would have to pay the market price so why don't they?

I forgot to take my lunch to work today, so I don't think anyone else should have lunch.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:08

nuzak: Feb 13, 2012

Fluo posted:

That is a dumb statement though, I'm not the biggest fan of the army but someone has to do it. Or would you rather bring back conscription?

Has to do what? Last time the army was necessary to stop people getting overrun with fascists was coming up 70 years ago. Since then what have we "had" to do?

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:09

Nuclear Spoon: Aug 18, 2010; I want to cry out
but I don’t scream and I don’t shout
And I feel so proud
to be alive

soldiers are objectively bad people who gives a poo poo

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:10

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

tentish klown posted:

There's shelter available for that price, just not in prime east London.

Maybe we should just get rid of price controls altogether and let basic necessities like food and fuel fluctuate wildly at the whims of the market

Is that something you'd get behind

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:10

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Coohoolin posted:

Ehm. No they don't?

Ok, we all live in a Utopia where noone starts wars. There are no Stalins or Hitlers, mass genocide isn't a thing. Land grabs and we all view the Earth as a pale blue dot, we are but a pixel in the grand Universe. People aren't killing each other over race, religion, sexuality or ideaology. We are but one together helping each other brother to brother for humanity. We are reducing c02 and reversing the greenhouse effect before we get into extreme feedback loops and gone past the point of no return.

Sounds perfect to me, however this is the real world. The people you should be blaming is the politicians who started the wars, not the pawns on their chess board. I'm well aware there is a couple of countries out of 196 (if you ignore things like Nauru not having an army but Australia is responsible for their defense, and same with Vatican City with Italy).

Without an army we'd be kind of hosed, theres been some awful wars like Iraq but that's down to the politician. Would you rather we just watched on as the genocide in Bosnia was going on or how about :godwin:

World War 2.

It's not perfect but its the best we have.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:11

Alecto: Feb 11, 2014

Fluo posted:

That is a dumb statement though, I'm not the biggest fan of the army but someone has to do it. Or would you rather bring back conscription?

This post

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:12

Caedite eos: Jan 1, 2011

EvilGenius posted:

I forgot to take my lunch to work today, so I don't think anyone else should have lunch.

Why is "everyone should suffer >= [the amount I have suffered]" such a widespread imperative.
I just stick to wishing every sentient being would turn to rock

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:14

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

KKKlean Energy posted:

Maybe we should just get rid of price controls altogether and let basic necessities like food and fuel fluctuate wildly at the whims of the market

Is that something you'd get behind

Actually isn't this the case right now though? I can't think of any commodity trading groups responsible for stabilising or maintaining a price except monopolies keeping the price as high as possible and instead we plaster over this huge problem with underfunded personal subsidy programs.

I guess maybe the breakers they have on the entire stock exchange which closes trading if the price drops too much?

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:16

Mousepractice: Jan 30, 2005; A pint of plain is your only man

tentish klown posted:

Why the gently caress shouldn't they be beholden to the market when everyone else is? Accommodation in east London is a rare commodity, if I wanted to live there, which i would quite like to but don't want to pay the rent, I would have to pay the market price so why don't they?

Hey you giant poo poo, I live in the same neighborhood as you - or at least, the one you take your username from - and I pay less than a quarter of the market rate. How does that make you feel?

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:16

Fluo: May 25, 2007

baka kaba posted:

Would either of those incredibly rare occurrences have been prevented by giving soldiers protected status though? Soldiers aren't a persecuted minority, politically motivated murders aren't the same thing

No they would not, the protected status is a PR gimmick to try and get traditional Tory voters to vote labour. It doesn't really do much, I posted those because for a couple of days now TinTower has been having an episode about this PR gimmick being a major issue and spamming "Protection?!?!?!". So pointing out two cases where it'd have been nice to have some form of protection (tanks :newlol:

) hopefully helps us move into actual issues.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:17

Mr Snips: Jan 9, 2009

What's everyone's favourite division of the army? Mine's pickled onion.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:17

Obliterati: Nov 13, 2012; Pain is inevitable.
Suffering is optional.
Thunderdome is forever.

Fluo posted:

The people you should be blaming is the politicians who started the wars, not the pawns on their chess board.

This. Even if we ignore the need for a force that can contribute to UN peacekeeping missions, disbanding the army would, in terms of the living conditions of a lot of people, be pretty drat bad and do similar societal damage to all the cuts we've currently got. Any change in the army's role need to be gradual or at least involve support for the newly unemployed.

Also I approve the Carl Sagan reference.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:19

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Mr Snips posted:

What's everyone's favourite division of the army? Mine's pickled onion.

The army is part of a three division military; the other two parts are the men and the guns.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:19

Alecto: Feb 11, 2014

Fluo posted:

No they would not, the protected status is a PR gimmick to try and get traditional Tory voters to vote labour. It doesn't really do much, I posted those because for a couple of days now TinTower has been having an episode about this PR gimmick being a major issue and spamming "Protection?!?!?!". So pointing out two cases where it'd have been nice to have some form of protection (tanks ) hopefully helps us move into actual issues.

As we can see, your noble and well-intentioned attempt to move the thread on from millitarychat, by re-inflaming militarychat, has worked wonders. I eagerly await the arrival of these Actual Issues.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:22

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

UKMT July: Shut the gently caress up, Fluo

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:25

Nuclear Spoon: Aug 18, 2010; I want to cry out
but I don’t scream and I don’t shout
And I feel so proud
to be alive

all international disputes should be settled with boat races, an easily accessible competition to everyone

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:25

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Alecto posted:

As we can see, your noble and well-intentioned attempt to move the thread on from millitarychat, by re-inflaming militarychat, has worked wonders. I eagerly await the arrival of these Actual Issues.

I don't know, how about the expanding facts behind Prince Charles being undemocratic and trying to run policy and bully politicians? Cause this will actually effect people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28066081

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:26

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Fluo posted:

I don't know, how about the expanding facts behind Prince Charles being undemocratic and trying to run policy and bully politicians? Cause this will actually effect people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28066081

I tend to group this sort of thing with the house of lords existing, which is why I think they're both poo poo.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:28

Fluo: May 25, 2007

namesake posted:

I tend to group this sort of thing with the house of lords existing, which is why I think they're both poo poo.

They both are, I'm just surprised something like this hasn't really been talked about. We all know of the black spider memos but slowly they're starting to leak out:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/29/prince-charles-lobbied-grammar-schools

quote:

Prince Charles lobbied Tony Blair's government to expand grammar schools, also exerting pressure over issues including GM food and alternative medicines, according to interviews with ex-ministers collected for a BBC documentary on the prince's political activism.

Then you get idiot clickbait like this:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/30/prince-charles-right-voice-uk

quote:

Prince Charles has every right to a voice in how the UK is run
This is his country as much as ours, and doesn't appear to be an especially successful lobbyist, so why shouldn't he air his views?

The difference between Prince Charles 'lobbying' (bullying) and using his power is he isn't democratically elected but also has power that you and me will never have. So that clickbait article is treating it like Prince Charles sending a letter to the PM is on the same level as John Smith who lives in a semi-detached house with 2.5 children has.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:37

twoot: Oct 29, 2012

The Tories have gained their first lead in a GE poll since 2012

It's happening :stonklol:

Yes, I realise it is only one poll

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:42

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

Fluo posted:

Ok, we all live in a Utopia where noone starts wars. There are no Stalins or Hitlers, mass genocide isn't a thing. Land grabs and we all view the Earth as a pale blue dot, we are but a pixel in the grand Universe. People aren't killing each other over race, religion, sexuality or ideaology. We are but one together helping each other brother to brother for humanity. We are reducing c02 and reversing the greenhouse effect before we get into extreme feedback loops and gone past the point of no return.

Sounds perfect to me, however this is the real world. The people you should be blaming is the politicians who started the wars, not the pawns on their chess board. I'm well aware there is a couple of countries out of 196 (if you ignore things like Nauru not having an army but Australia is responsible for their defense, and same with Vatican City with Italy).

Without an army we'd be kind of hosed, theres been some awful wars like Iraq but that's down to the politician. Would you rather we just watched on as the genocide in Bosnia was going on or how about World War 2.

It's not perfect but its the best we have.

Yeah except we don't loving need one. We're not even fighting the real oppressors with ours, we just use it to bomb middle eastern shepherds back to the loving stone age. If you're honest about wanting to oppose land grabs and fascism and genocide, I'd expect you'd be in favour of the UK declaring war on the USA, no?

But nah, you probably think the IRA and the RAF and the ETA and anyone not in your glorious loving post-imperial army who actually took a stand against real oppressors is poo poo and are boys are doing a fine job keeping evil at bay by murdering third world civilians.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:43

EmptyVessel: Oct 30, 2012

Murdering civilians is wrong no matter what acronym the people doing it use. hth

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:51

Alecto: Feb 11, 2014

twoot posted:

The Tories have gained their first lead in a GE poll since 2012

It's happening

Yes, I realise it is only one poll

Just worth pointing out for anyone else not familiar with them, Ashcroft's polls are really loving bumpy. It was less than a month ago he had Labour 9 ahead of the Conservatives. And no other poll is showing anything like this. And blah blah blah.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:54

Microplastics: Jul 6, 2007; It's what's for dinner.

EmptyVessel posted:

Murdering civilians is wrong no matter what acronym the people doing it use. hth

hang the homeless?! That's barbaric, go gently caress yourself.

# ? Jun 30, 2014 20:59

biscuits and crazy: Oct 10, 2012

Never thought I'd see this, but even the Spectator is against IDS

The Spectator posted:

Labour held a debate on Iain Duncan Smith�s stewardship of the welfare state today. Tory MPs backed their man, as did the Conservative journalists, who have told their readers that despite the many disappointments of the Cameron administration, Duncan Smith�s welfare reforms make the excruciating experience worthwhile.

If Conservatives were sincere, they would want him out of office now. They would suspect, as I suspect, that he has a Napoleon complex. Once the poor chap saw himself as a potential Prime Minister. Now he sees himself as a great reformer. As he no more has the capacity to be the latter than the former, Duncan Smith is engaging in crimes Conservatives fool themselves into believing are only committed by the left.

1. Wasting public money

You are against that, aren�t you? Didn�t you go into politics to protect abused taxpayers? Not when your own people are the abusers, apparently.

The Universal Credit fiasco exemplifies Duncan Smith�s narcissistic failure to admit and remedy mistakes. As Computer Weekly � a far better guardian of the taxpayer that the Conservative backbenches or press, incidentally � has said, Duncan Smith proceeded with a vast and complicated IT project without learning the lessons from the IT disasters of the Labour years.

The inevitable result, as Labour said today, is that after ��612m [was] spent, including �131m written off or �written down�, the introduction of Universal Credit is now years behind schedule, with no clear plan for how, when, or whether full implementation will be achievable or value for money�.

Duncan Smith did not take responsibility for his actions. He did not scrap his failing system and start again, as an honest man would have done it. The open acceptance of a mistake would have left him vulnerable. Maybe all those mocking Conservatives, who dismissed his leadership as a joke in 2003, would have resurfaced and asked: If this man was unfit to lead the Conservative Party when it was in opposition, and had power over no one�s life, why should he now lead a spending ministry with the power to bring misery into the lives of millions?

It is a good question, after all. And some of us would like to hear your answer. Computer Weekly reported that the Ministerial Oversight Group, which had to examine the Universal Credit mess, had two options: To throw away the IT developed by Duncan Smith�s suppliers, and start again; or to salvage as much as possible in the short term, while developing a new �enhanced� IT system.

[Francis] Maude favoured starting again, with the Government Digital Service (GDS) that he controls taking the lead. Duncan Smith felt that writing off so much IT was politically unacceptable.

Just so. Duncan Smith would have looked a fool if he had scrapped his project. His career might have been in danger. So he dodged the choice, and hid the losses by making the public pay two computer systems, while using government lawyers to stop the gory details of the failure seeing daylight. The eventual bill to the public will be the cost of saving his face. Significantly, Computer Weekly reports that the Government Digital Service (GDS) wants no more direct involvement with the development of the �enhanced IT� required to roll out universal credit. The GDS is one of the successes of this administration. Engineers praise its staff for learning from the mistakes of the past and ensuring that � after all these years � Whitehall keeps IT costs under control. That its public servants want as little as possible to do with Duncan Smith tells you all you need to know about his inability to put the taxpayers� interest first.

2 He loves the grands projets and hates the boring detail

If you object that building a welfare system that makes work pay is a grand idea, I will reply that grand ideas still have to work. In Sunday�s Observer I quoted a story astonished Labour politicians tell of Duncan Smith�s lack of interest in the practicalities of policy:

�A few years ago, Duncan Smith met Douglas Alexander, Rachel Reeves and Stephen Timms. He enthused about his belief in a universal credit that would merge taxes and benefits. He would free 6 million people from the poverty traps of welfare dependency and show them that work made them better off.

�The Labour politicians admitted that universal credit was a fine idea. They had thought about implementing it many times. But you had to merge incompatible IT systems and find a way of updating the information on millions of people so that Whitehall knew almost instantaneously how much they were earning, what taxes they should pay and what benefits they should receive. Reforming a complex system would take years. If Duncan Smith rushed it he would be engaging in the vast and self-defeating social engineering the right accused the utopian left of forcing on the human race.

�Duncan Smith would have none of it. The technicalities were trifles. All that was needed was the political will. And he, Iain Duncan Smith, the man of destiny, had the will to make it work. �We looked at him as if he was mad,� one of the participants told me.�

You see a similar insouciance everywhere you look. The government now admits that over 700,000 people are still waiting for Duncan Smith�s Work Capability Assessments. The Office for Budget Responsibility said in March that the Government was expected to spend �800 million more than it predicted only last December, to make the failed system work.

The Public Accounts Committee reported that the introduction of Duncan Smith�s Personal Independence Payments have created �uncertainty, stress and financial costs for claimants� as well as additional budgetary pressures. The department is assessing just 7,000 people per month.

Beyond these bureaucratic failures, lies Duncan Smith�s Work Programme that has failed to meet its targets; and a bedroom tax that forces people to move to homes that do not exist. The right is fond of accusing the left of imposing utopian schemes on a public it treats as laboratory rats. Duncan Smith has ensured that the left can pick up that missile and hurl it back.

3. His spin puts New Labour to shame.

As it tries to cover up its master�s mistakes, the Department of Work and Pensions press office has become notorious among journalists for news management. I had a row with one of its press officers recently, in which he could not bring himself to admit that the Supreme Court had criticised Duncan Smith, even though the Supreme Court judgement was on the record and publicly available. He was not a civil servant, impartially dispensing information, but a taxpayer-sponsored propagandist.

Duncan Smith has recruited one Richard Caseby, a former News International exec, who tried to cover Rupert Murdoch�s worthless backside during the hacking scandal. I cannot see why the public must pay his salary. He is not their servant. He�s the Conservative Party�s servant, as he proved when he suggested that national newspapers should not allow the Guardian to join their proposed press regulator. A civil servant has no business talking like that. Taxpayers do not pay him to pursue his vendettas, and shoot his overactive mouth off on matters which are no concern of his department. The head of the Civil Service acknowledged as much when he said that Caseby went �beyond what I would expect of a civil servant�.

In that last decade Tories went on at considerable length about Labour�s spin machine, ZaNuLiebor B:Liar and all the rest of it. Where are they now that Duncan Smith and his creatures spin and manipulate and threaten and obfuscate? If you mean what you say, you should want Duncan Smith gone, and apologise for allowing him within 100 miles of power in the first place.

biscuits and crazy fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jun 30, 2014

# ? Jun 30, 2014 21:02

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Coohoolin posted:

Yeah except we don't loving need one. We're not even fighting the real oppressors with ours, we just use it to bomb middle eastern shepherds back to the loving stone age. If you're honest about wanting to oppose land grabs and fascism and genocide, I'd expect you'd be in favour of the UK declaring war on the USA, no?

But nah, you probably think the IRA and the RAF and the ETA and anyone not in your glorious loving post-imperial army who actually took a stand against real oppressors is poo poo and are boys are doing a fine job keeping evil at bay by murdering third world civilians.

I'm pretty sure the RAF is still around. I'm trying to read this post many times and either I've just read a really weird strawman or you don't have any awareness of the real world. When you keep saying we, are you talking about all of us or the politicians in power who made those choices? Because I don't remember personally sending soldiers to Iraq. If we invaded USA we'd come to many problems, if we forget about the whole army size and nuke clusterfuck. Wouldn't we then be seen as the land grabbers? Taking back America to be :britain:

? Then we'd have to invade ourselves?

Comparing modern day America to worldwar 2 Fascism is a bit over the top aswell (are we back in 2003 where we all called Bush hitler and had those funny flash videos? :shrug:

). Regarding the IRA, ETA and such. I strongly disagree with their means to an end. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist again you brought up genocide fascism and land grab but ignored the part about no killing over religion, race, sexuality or ideaology. Which was what I written out as the 'Utopia'. I do find putting words in my mouth quite distasteful though there is nothing glorious about 'glorious loving post-imperial army' but somehow pointing out that, like police. We need them in some form or another and blaming the actions of politicians on the soldiers is quite troublesome. The world is not black and white, IRA and the Labour government ended up getting round the table and wrote up the good friday agreement which was a little sparkle in the eye of the good of humanity after the bloodshed from both sides.

EmptyVessel posted:

Murdering civilians is wrong no matter what acronym the people doing it use. hth

Fluo fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 30, 2014

# ? Jun 30, 2014 21:16

Coohoolin: Aug 5, 2012; Oor Coohoolie.

gently caress off you pedantic arsehole.

In case anyone is genuinely confused, however:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

# ? Jun 30, 2014 21:19

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Coohoolin posted:

gently caress off you pedantic arsehole.

In case anyone is genuinely confused, however:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

Thank you for this wonderful Debate & Discussion.

In other news:
Ministers under fire over Raytheon e-borders legal bill
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28033372

quote:

Ministers are facing calls to reveal the cost of a four-year legal battle with the US defence giant they sacked from the aborted e-borders project.

Raytheon was hired by the previous Labour government to set up an electronic system for counting all travellers in and out of the UK.

It was fired by the coalition in 2010 over alleged poor performance and is suing the government for �500m.

MPs are demanding to know why the case has not been settled.

Instead of fighting it in open court, both parties agreed to go to arbitration, meaning hearings were held behind closed doors in a private court.

The outcome has yet to be revealed by the arbitration panel, even though hearings are thought to have ended a year ago.

The Home Office said in June last year it expected a verdict "soon". Raytheon said in April this year it would probably come in the first half of 2014.[...]

# ? Jun 30, 2014 21:20

Adverbially: Sep 17, 2013; Soiled Meat

Alecto posted:

Just worth pointing out for anyone else not familiar with them, Ashcroft's polls are really loving bumpy. It was less than a month ago he had Labour 9 ahead of the Conservatives. And no other poll is showing anything like this. And blah blah blah.