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R. Mute posted:I knew he was going to die the second he came into the series, because he's a beautiful, charming and badass sexhaver nobody could dislike. In other words, he was the antithesis to GURM, meaning he was never meant to be. RIP Oberyn, you were a bright spark in this otherwise drab season. I'd say him being 150 lbs fighting a 450 lbs monstrosity in armor was more of a reason he died than GRRM hating the popular kids in high school.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:45
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R. Mute posted:Maybe GURM identifies with the 450 lbs monstrosity. I think the only character GRRM realistically identifies with is whoever is rich as poo poo and doesn't give a gently caress. But seriously though GRRM is into characters defining the story instead of the other way around. Bron is described as a really skilled sellsword that Tyrion notices is better than the average sellsword. GRRM says he moves like a panther in battle and that his sword seems a part of his arm. So, in the character driven story, Bron would probably be superior to Sir Whatsit in his big cumbersome armor in a fight since Bron was made to brawl dirty, which he did to win that fight. I read the books so I won't spoil anything either way, but in my opinion pretty much every death was in this series is brought about by the faults of the character who dies. Like: Ned - Full of honor, too stupid to realize he's getting backstabbed. Robb - Full of honor, too stupid to realize he's getting backstabbed. Catelyn - Stupid rash decision making idiot who walked into a trap. Joffrey - Petulant little turd that everyone wanted to kill Robert - Over confident drunkard who got drunk and died to a wild animal Lysa - Bat poo poo crazy and set herself up for betrayal Oberyn - So worried about finding his sister's killers that it blinded him (literally) Like it's fun to say GRRM kills people for no reason but there's always a valid reason bros die in this show.
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Jun 2, 2014 18:56
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Vehementi posted:It's easier to understand when you recognize that GRRM's gimmick is to make it seem like one thing is happening and then suddenly destroy that. And in most of the cases (Joffrey suddenly deciding to execute Ned, grand conspiracy theory red wedding, near dead guy springs back to life to murder, etc.) the way it is executed is just absurd. That 'gimmick' is called a plot twist and is in pretty much every single interesting story out there. The execution in the show is absurd because much of what is implied or guessed at comes across better in literary form. Vehementi posted:Just like there were 100 ways they could have done Oberyn dying without it being a laugh out loud "haha they pulled the TV trope of the completely incapacitated guy getting the best of the 'winnner'" situation, Frey could have done a wedding ambush in 100 other ways that weren't "Okay, we're going to have this huge conspiracy where our 500 soldiers know to strike at exactly the same time and we're going to hope nobody has a qualm with this and tips anyone off and and and ..." Oberyn was looking for a confession out of the Mountain to implicate Tywin in the death of Elia. That's why he incapacitated him. Oberyn is also a swarthy headstrong guy who thinks nothing bad can happen to him because he lived a life on the edge without any real troubles. His own over-confidence kills him (there's more to it too but it's spoilerish). The Red Wedding was also done in that way because Frey lured a bunch of really good warriors into a trap and basically got them drunk and lowered their guards down. Frey was using his own army and family members to ambush hundreds of well armed soldiers so understandably he wanted to keep the casualties on his side to a minimum. Also an out in the air ambush against Robb could have let Robb escape, which would have been way loving worse for Frey in the long run. Vehementi posted:Why bother with a giant wedding - did they need the drunk advantage to kill Robb's 10 dudes in the keep throne room? For a guy who apparently doesn't care at all that he just ruined his house name for all time, you think he would just sacrifice 5 extra soldiers to kill Robb right off the bat without all the insane risks of a gigantic wedding conspiracy plot. For me, the red wedding was surprising because the situation was so ludicrously contrived, not because they killed Robb. When I zoom out and look at the overall situation (you were expecting Robb to avenge Ned and now hope is crushed), it's great. Just the execution was laughable here. Robb's 10 dudes is Robb's hundreds of dudes in the books. The TV series can't jam a hundred extras in the scene to make it more believable to you. I'm not sure why you think it's contrived. He lured his enemy into a trap and killed him, it's pretty bog-standard stuff. I mean you should really learn how hard it is to be TOTALLY REALISTIC in a series with a budget. What, do you want them to build the pyramids of Mereen instead of using CGI or something too?
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Jun 3, 2014 17:44
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Vehementi posted:He lured his enemies into a super unbelievable and unnecessary conspiracy, not merely "a trap". Are you saying that in the book there were 100+ Stark soldiers in the throne room that they couldn't show? And that Frey actually sent out people to attack the Stark bannermen camps in open field in hopes that they were all drunk and would fall over in a massacre? That seems like an even more unnecessary plan than I originally understood. From what I remember they ambushed the various Stark soldiers inside the keep, and without a leader the bannermen disbanded afterward (they made a point of saying this in the show). The real risk is as you said - chance of Robb escaping - but that seems pretty negligible compared to "one of my hundreds of random soldiers not keeping the huge conspiracy a secret and then I lose everything". How is it super unbelievable and unnecessary? He told the dude, "Hey come into my castle so we can talk about how you just completely hosed me over by marrying that other girl instead of my daughter." Robb would obviously go because he needs the Freys to keep the passage to the North safe and because Robb was super dishonorable by breaking his vow to Frey. As for soldiers keeping their mouths shut? Hell yeah they will. The way army heirarchies are set up in Westeros is that the family members lead the troops. The Freys are the biggest house in Westeros and there's a full grown Frey at every single post commanding people. All they have to say to their couple hundred troops is, "If you tell anyone about this, we'll skin your ballsack off." On top of that Frey had the ballistas loaded and the wedding tents rigged to catch on fire and collapse. It was a pretty great trap that's pretty realistic... in a story about dragons and magic. Vehementi posted:I fully get the context of the Oberyn situation and everything that happened. Like a half a dozen people have pointed out in this thread, they could have "had his hubris kill him" without it being "lol prankt, the guy with a hole in his chest choking on his blood got up". So then why don't you understand it? The Mountain is a huge dude and there's stuff called adrenaline that keeps the body pumping when it should fall down. It's that inconceivable that the Mountain couldn't roll over and do one more big assault on Oberyn? Have you watched entertainment shows before? Vehementi posted:People in that land respect a ruse wedding where a house is massacred? They made a huge loving deal about how Frey's house's name is ruined forever for breaking the guest rule. It seems super far fetched anyone would be convinced that this wedding was legitimate, not under duress, or not invalidated for a dozen reasons like "they killed all the guests", much less care about any claim House Frey makes from now until the end of time. Weddings are binding, even if they do lead to some crazy stuff. I mean Joffrey chopped off Ned's head but he still was married to his daughter.
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Jun 3, 2014 18:58
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Kempo posted:Two things I have learnt today: Impossible, the only thing we discuss in the spoiler thread is whatever happened to S2 Mountain and why Cersei's rape wasn't as bad as people getting skinned alive.
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Jun 5, 2014 17:40
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an skeleton posted:Sorry. I don't really want an exact number. I'm just curious if the pace of the story is the same for 4 and 5, and if not, do we think that the showrunners might adjust things to make the next seasons more exciting? Pace.... hah... hahahahahah haha hahahahaha Oh hahahahghaghahahhahah
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Jun 5, 2014 18:34
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Chris Christie posted:As long as we're asking book questions, I'm a show watcher 1st and about 50 pages into book 3. I don't think this is a spoiler since it's a general rule of thumb for TV shows but yes, something huge will happen at the end of this season that you'd probably want to either wait for or finish reading the book fast to get to. Next week's show is the attack on the wall, it looks like, which isn't a huge deal and will probably give you an extra week to read through book 3 fast. Doltos fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 5, 2014 |
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Jun 5, 2014 18:43
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Really if you go on the internet at all chances are you're going to be spoiled, usually in some place that has nothing to do with what you're getting spoiled with too. Like I found out Snape kills Dumbledore from a random signature on the WoW forum. I found out Ned loses his head from a random troll on Reddit who was replying to a topic about a cat fighting a turtle. I found out the ending of Breaking Bad from a random image on imgur.
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Jun 5, 2014 19:39
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I know that one dude from earlier was irrationally complaining about the lack of realism in this show but really, who wouldn't have thrown an axe at a shirtless Ramsay from point blank range? Also how the gently caress are you afraid of dogs when you're covered head to toe in dog-repelling chain armor?
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Jun 5, 2014 20:25
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precision posted:Dude I wasn't saying he was an rear end in a top hat for doing it, just that it's a pretty dumb gimmicky thing. Having it be for charity doesn't make it less dumb. Kinda does make it less dumb since... yknow... he's doing it for charity. I mean is it that big of a deal that he's going to write some guy named Johnny in as a random knight from House Beesbury biting it?
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Jun 6, 2014 17:38
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