Read Some Real Literature: Anyway hail satantango

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Read Some Real Literature: Anyway hail satantango

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Bad books are actually much more dangerous than bad films, records or football games or whatever. You've got 300 pages of complete poo poo, that's 10 hours, a seriously loving long time. You focus totally on some terrible magic space ship book for 10+ hours, in terms of intellectual development and mental health that's roughly equivalent to getting black out drunk, I'd say. The fight against bad books is much more important than the fight against TV or britpop.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2014 14:02

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 22:40

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

The Walking Dad posted:

Wagner had to synthesize the Germanic Epic from scraps. Elias L�nnrot just had to take a pen and write it down first hand.

Nonsense. L�nnrot created the narrative in Kalevala, most of the stories in it had no clear connection when they were collected.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2014 12:16

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Mr. Squishy posted:

Now that newspapers are axing their literary contingent, what's a good place online that serves the same purpose? I'm mostly limited to reading 1 star reviews of JR on goodreads.

If you can afford to buy newspapers, you can afford to subscribe to LRB and NYRB or whatever.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 22:52

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Mr. Squishy posted:

Who buys newspapers they put all their poo poo online.

I can see why they're axing the lit pages.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 23:06

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

CestMoi posted:

I actually truly believe it and wanted to express my opinion and just happened to do it at a time that makes it look like I was being sarcastic.

Are you sure it's not you who's a bit thick and finds good books hard to read? Like, I mean, that's obviously an atrocious opinion, and probably an ethically disastrous one at that, considering how it tries so hard to disregard every literary tradition outside of some modern trends originating from roughly between Trieste and Harvard.

e: I'm not sure why I'm doing this.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 00:25

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Burning Rain posted:

The talks of 'leftist bias' of the committee calmed down after right-leaning and often very politically outspoken Mario Vargas Llosa won it in 2010.

Although, quite to the contrary, it's been pointed out that MVL's very public criticism of Israel in the 2000s finally made him an acceptable Nobel candidate.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 14:22

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Burning Rain posted:

Interesting, I hadn't heard of that. Israel might be one of the few topics that both sides of the political spectrum agree on.

Nah man the point was that Israel/Palestine is such a divisive left/right issue that Vargas Llosa crossing the floor finally made him a contender in the eyes of this not-entirely-supposed leftist literary bloc. Not that you should award fascists anything ever.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 14:54

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Tenacious J posted:

1) My myopic lizardbrain recognizes that the story has already been repackaged dozens of times in modern movies and cheap books, so it's familiar to me. Seeing the origin of the story is maybe a little interesting but that never goes far and I get bored. How can I change my perspective here?

Stories are of trivial importance. If you were reading, say, the aforementioned Crime & Punishment for the story, you wouldn't feel too happy about finishing it. There is gently caress all of a story. And you know what? Stories are for keeping children sitting still for twenty minutes. In great literature stories are frames, connecting devices. You can take pretty much any great book and condense the story to two completely banal sentences. You absolutely shouldn't focus on them.

e: don't be this guy:

The Dennis System posted:

Nothing happens in that book.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 22:24

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

mallamp posted:

Huh? You'd have to be pretty deep into Dawkins level aggressive atheism to feel that Dostoyevsky has 'intense hatred' of atheism.
Compared to other writers of the era Dostoyevsky explores both sides (atheism vs. theism) pretty well...
But in the end he did choose theism so if that bothers you then yeah, don't read him I guess.

No, I'm pretty sure Dostoyevsky did indeed hate atheism pretty intensely. Like, read The Demons?

# ¿ Sep 8, 2014 16:28

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Astrofig posted:

I tried reading The Divine Comedy once, but fully half the text was taken up by explanations. Explaining what particular research this author who compiled the volume did, backed by what institution, and this was what Florentine politics were like in Aligheri's day and oh yes this is the kind of coins they used and such and such peoples were persecuted thusly and here's how the church was involved and la-dee-dah more about the loving church and gee I bet you thought you'd actually get to reading the actual work at some point didn't you!

I eventually gave up; it wasn't worth the effort.

So what you're saying is that you wanted to read the book without even remotely understanding it? Significant parts of it are commentaries on medieval politics, both church and secular.

# ¿ Sep 22, 2014 12:20

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

ShaqDiesel posted:

Probably been mentioned several times but can anyone recommend a reading list of important/major books of western civilization? If you have a suggested reading order please include that as well. Obviously there are a lot online but I wanted goon perspective on this.

Unless you have Infinite Time that's a really absurd task to take on. Try reading The Bible and then report back on whether that was a lot of fun.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 15:00

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Yeah no I've read the Bible too, my point was that it's a good indicator for whether you'll actually enjoy something like the Iliad or Aquinas or whatever, or whether you'd just be doing it for some kind of perceived intellectual credit.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 15:28

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

HELLO LADIES posted:

I don't think the Bible is necessarily a good litmus test for "do you like classics circle one y/n", though. The stories show up everywhere, but it's not written as literature at all and huge parts of it are painful in a way that most other classics aren't, esp. if you eliminate stuff like Aquinas that's basically theological commentary. The OT probably isn't a very good predictor of whether or not you'll be able to get through Zola, for example, even though they're both basically dynastic stories with a moral/philosophical theme.

Right, but if you approach this project with the idea of finding "important/major books" in Western history, some of the least questionable choices would also be the most painful ones to read. Something like Zola (who I absolutely love) appears half way through the list as a footnote to Das Kapital. Like, to be clear here, I'm just underlining the absurdity of such a project.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 17:09

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

poisonpill posted:

I'd throw Moby Dick on here (Norton Critical ed. will help a lot), but mainly just so this isn't an empty-quote. This is the short list, doesn't make sense to read more until you've started here.

Boccaccio > Chaucer, Ovid = Virgil, Aristotle = Plato.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 23:19

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

J_RBG posted:

TV flattens out regional dialects

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't actually happen. I'm pretty sure it's been shown that mass media exposure to different dialects doesn't actually cause any particular spread of those dialects. Vocabulary, sure, but that's different.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 16:22

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

JackKnight posted:

I should probably have made the point that less and less people are using English to its full potential.

That's a daft loving point too.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 19:58

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

If I had to pick a book to kick Travic out of this bizarre high school mentality I'd choose Saramago's Blindness. It is absolutely blatantly not only about blindness.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2014 18:21

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Travic posted:

I actually own that book and I adore it.

Cosmic.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2014 18:49

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Ben Nevis posted:

I'm about halfway through and mostly just struggling to stay interested. Mostly just curious if there's some sort of conclusion or revelation or other payoff. It's been quite a slog for me.

There's a moderate payoff for the story about the lost author whom the two dudes are looking for, but that's hardly what's great or significant about the book. The second part in particular "goes nowhere" if that's what you feared. I absolutely loved that book though.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2014 21:15

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Moacher posted:

I just finished Catch 22 yesterday. While I enjoyed it alright, thought it was quite clever in parts, and I feel like I "got" the various commentaries and absurdities that Heller was trying to present, I didn't love it the way everyone else seems to. This is a novel that appears on every "Top 100 novels of All Time" list you'll ever see, often in the top 20 or even top 10, and is many peoples' favorite book ever, and I only thought it was good. For these reasons, I face that dilemma of wondering if I'm the problem here, which I'm open to accepting as entirely possible.

Stop caring about Americans' literature opinions.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2014 00:23

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Mercrom posted:

Can anyone recommend proper novels that explore and critizice utilitarian and nihilist concepts sort of the way Gen Urobuchi does but less anime?

Dostoyevsky's entire oeuvre.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 15:46

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Maybe someone should write an anti-rape novel to expose how rape is bad. That would be loving deep.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 23:36

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

UnoriginalMind posted:

when Pi is confronted by his parents and religious leaders for going to multiple churches of different faiths and his response is "I just want to love God." Yeah, on his terms. That's not love at all. That's selfish.

For "a strong atheist" this sounds like a strangely evangelical protestant opinion.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2014 19:01

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Falstaff Infection posted:

while I actually do think it qualifies as "capital L literature," that GRRM is a good author and a decent stylist (P.S. Saramago is overrated), this thread is hardly the place for that debate.

Nice Parthian shot, or as you kids call it, Dark Pedo Elf Dragon shot.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2014 09:51

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Everything set in the real world suggests that it's somehow due to my own spiritual failures that my life is bad. So I'm reading the book in which Batman beats up Albert Camus.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2014 14:32

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

mallamp posted:

The thing is that unlike Calvino, Game of Thrones is written for 12-year-old mental level so manchildren who spend 10 hours a day updating Facebook and killing poo poo in virtual worlds are able to read it

That's unfair, Invisible Cities has been quite popular among American readers.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2014 15:11

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

I just meant that it's easier to comprehend than, say, my burns.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2014 15:15

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Mel Mudkiper posted:

It is interesting that you list art, culture, and society as important elements to analyze but don't mention people themselves. There is a value to a writer focusing on the human experience in itself, and I would argue it's the most important element of good fiction.

See, the problem is that the experience of the American human is worthless.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 15:17

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

I've never read Eco, is he even worthwhile if I think Borges is garbage and am not a 16yo deeply impressed by a book mentioning Shah Babur?

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 17:03

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Borneo Jimmy posted:

Oh man way to stick it to those dumb Borges reading teenagers.

Don't patronise teens.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2015 17:40

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

The thread was titled "quit loving a child" etc. last night.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2015 15:49

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

the store owner didn't read fantasy.

So in a way he owned you.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2015 14:41

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

She, you gender presumptivist!

You should've said "owneress".

# ¿ Feb 19, 2015 16:53

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

I'd say the key thing with translations is that when you have one older than, say, 50, 60, 70 years, there's a good chance a lot of the tone of the original is lost to the modern reader. Like, if the earthly wisdom of the 19th century Russian muzhik is conveyed with Cockney chimey sweeper rhyming slang, at best it's inadvertently comic and at worst unreadable. As a policy I tend to avoid cheapo paperback English translations of classic works, because they always use these utterly awful late victorian translations whose copyright has expired.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 16:57

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Poetry is trash.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 21:39

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

That rich estimation of yours is still an absurd amount of effort considering all of Old English literature is basically Beowulf and The Annual Chronicles of Nicholaeus Dickweede of Plymouth Monastery.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2015 02:39

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

V. Illych L. posted:

i sometimes want to learn chinese so i can read mao and cao cao's poetry

for some reason the notion of these brutal warlords writing beautiful poetry strikes a chord in me

A few Ottoman sultans wrote poetry, some of it about totally inane state matters, and during one of their many colourful civil wars the warring sultan candidates were sending poetry to each other, basically

Abdulhamid, you wretched hound
Please return Izmir safe and sound

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 00:38

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

IMO The Stranger is only overrated in the sense that it's life-altering capacities are overstated if you're over 17. Over. It's a fantastic story.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2015 17:56

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Tree Goat posted:

Pretend I transcribed every time DFW tried to write "in dialect" in Infinite Jest.

Pretend I pasted DFW's astonishingly stupid essay on language politics here

# ¿ Mar 16, 2015 23:01

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 22:40

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

I don't really understand Borges. But I do understand Bola�o who's basically a Borges who didn't go to Eton but has had sex.

ulvir posted:

My local library has both versions of Dictionary of the Khazars at hand. I think I'm going to borrow the feminine version.

the different versions are like the one stupid gimmicky thing that I don't like about that stupid wonderful gimmicky book. It's like one sentence.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 23:04

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