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rkajdi posted:Again, we see the IMO dumb argument that correcting a mental condition makes someone a "different person". As I mentioned in the other thread, this is the kind of stuff that kept me from going to mental health experts when I was younger. It is some seriously disordered thinking and needs to be combated at every level. There is no authentic you, different you, or whatever. Messing with your brain still has you be the same person the same way that you'd still be the same person after getting a heart operation or having an amputation. I'd as soon fix someone with autism as fix someone with Downs. It's not something that's currently possible, but looking at it in this way is a surefire way to ensure that we never make any progress. Could you imagine if we had similar BS going around when anti-psychotics were first invented? I know to some extent D&D is anti-psych (or at least has a good number of anti-psych boosters who post on said topics) but you need to understand that it's an inherently anti-science and backward position to come from, where you leave a bunch of people to fail to cope with life-- but at least they are the "same person" or some garbage which is important for reasons. No, "messing with your brain" as you put it can absolutely make you a different person. That has been extensively scientifically documented for well over a hundred years. Dualism is crap, who you are is a function of neurology (since even the things you have experienced are stored tangibly), and altering neurology alters you. The question is whether this results in a higher quality of life. Generally, since you are going to see a doctor about it, the answer is yes.
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Jun 28, 2014 23:02
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rkajdi posted:Phineas Gage was the same person before and after the accident. He acted differently, but he was still a continuation of the same individual. People tend to act differently after traumatic experience (or really any kind of experience), regardless of brain damage. Does that make them different people? If so, you're literally a different person every second of every day. How do you determine which time period is the "real" you worth protecting? Seriously, the idea is incredibly disordered. No, Gage was not acting different because of his experience, he was action different because the changes to his neuroanatomy made him a different person. This is something that has been extensively studied. We can give someone localized anesthesia to part of their brain, cause a whole new personality to emerge, and watch it be subsumed as the anesthesia wears off. quote:It gives them some insight into the internal condition, but nothing that's really useful in fixing it. If there was special insight given into these conditions foudn by having them, they would have been solved long ago. Psychology is so weird in D&D, because it's where the anti-science crankery comes out and gets support. You can be anti-psych here and get lots of praise you'd never get for being anti-vaxx or a climate change denialist. 
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Jun 28, 2014 23:24
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rkajdi posted:I'm not agruing dualism at all-- exactly the opposite in fact. Your brain is an organ exactly the same as every other organ in your body. Is someone a different person because they have heart surgery? quote:Also, is someone a different person after having brain sugery to remove a tumor? quote:I hate dualism because at its heart it treats your mental condition as something special and inherently different from the rest of reality. My argument is this "authentic you"/different person idea is flawed from the start. It's an idea that gets hung out there when there is reality to base it on. So we're better off ignoring it, or conversely acting "you" is infinitely fungible for the same body.
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Jun 28, 2014 23:33
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Ogmius815 posted:Science says that changes to his neuroanatomy made him behave differently. Science can't say poo poo about whether or not the rail made him a "different person" because something like that isn't empirically verifiable (what the hell does it mean to be a "different person"?). You are missing the point because you have a naive essentialist worldview. Trying to say that there is some aspect of you that isn't a materialist, biological phenomena, that results from the behavior of physical processes is complete crap.
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Jun 28, 2014 23:45
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Ogmius815 posted:How can I ascertain what constitutes a "fundamental aspect" of a person? Any of the aspects the person defines as part of their core identity. Ogmius815 posted:He's freaking out because curing people of autism would make them "different people". quote:But that kind of concrete personal identity is an illusion. There is no "true, essential you" to compare your present state with. quote:He also implied that science could decide when someone had become "a different person" which is false. quote:It's definitely true that curing someone of autism would make them behave differently (that's the point), but lots of interventions could make someone behave differently. Should we freak out about talk therapy because the behavioral interventions it works on might make someone a "different person"?
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Jun 28, 2014 23:55
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